Looks like Stats have no relevance in battles anymore

Tony I was agreeing with you until my last attack. More than double att to def. 9-1 on army equipment. 4-15 on soldier equipment. By Gree's numbers I should have won but no I lost. This really needs to be clarified by gree.

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Originally Posted by Stubby1113

Tony I was agreeing with you until my last attack. More than double att to def. 9-1 on army equipment. 4-15 on soldier equipment. By Gree's numbers I should have won but no I lost. This really needs to be clarified by gree.

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If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

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Originally Posted by SUPpose So

You are missing the point Tony but nevermind... Its only an app game... Plenty more out there with far less hassle...

happy Xmas

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Don't you know, it's "Merry Xmas"? hahaha, sorry... couldn't help it ;)

A few people still don't know that there are some slight language differences between UK and U.S.

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Originally Posted by Tony81

If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

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Each section is rated independently so the 13-16 doesn't come into play.

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Originally Posted by Tony81

If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

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As per greeD statement, you have to win 2 out of the 3 factors, thus that implies you have to account for them individually
so, yes, Stubby1113 SHOULD had win, you cannot "combine" two factors into one (30/20) becuase it defeat its purposes (as per gree)

then again we are dealing with gree Math and Gree logic..........which means all is working as it should and was intented to................. :D

Yeah... I really don't understand how the PvP math works for the win. It's definitely not straight up win 2 of the 3 options. I've won battles by having higher Att to Def, but less army Atk and less solder Atk.

I'm not sure how a 50/20/30 breakdown of values would work either unless the breakdowns are different for attacker and defender.

What's the actual final math that determines win or loss based on those values?!

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Originally Posted by Kefa

Don't you know, it's "Merry Xmas"? hahaha, sorry... couldn't help it ;)

A few people still don't know that there are some slight language differences between UK and U.S.

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LoL... You say TomatO !..... We say TomAto !...... Happy Christmas to you too :)

I think i'm going to come back in a year, do an ILTQ and get Equipment worth millions of attack/defence points and be right back at the top again.... It'll save a year of sloggin through mind numbing daily events to get attack/defence equipment that will be useless by then.....

Oh the joys of hindsight ....

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Originally Posted by thebruce

Yeah... I really don't understand how the PvP math works for the win. It's definitely not straight up win 2 of the 3 options. I've won battles by having higher Att to Def, but less army Atk and less solder Atk.

I'm not sure how a 50/20/30 breakdown of values would work either unless the breakdowns are different for attacker and defender.

What's the actual final math that determines win or loss based on those values?!

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My reading is that it's

50% x army attack/army defence
+
30% x army equip attack/army equip defence
+
20% x solder equip attack/soldier equip defence
*
Some random factor (probably)

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Originally Posted by SUPpose So

I think i'm going to come back in a year, do an ILTQ and get Equipment worth millions of attack/defence points and be right back at the top again.... It'll save a year of sloggin through mind numbing daily events to get attack/defence equipment that will be useless by then.....

Oh the joys of hindsight ....

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Sadly, but very, very true... those staying loyal [addicted] to this game get least benefit... Proving that any addiction ends bad lol

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Originally Posted by Tony81

Exactly. If you play as you're supposed to, you have nothing to cry about.

All of this uproar is like buying new corvette a few years ago and then when Chevy comes out with a new more-powerful one, you cry because you spent so much on a slower one. Don't like it? Spend more or go buy a different car.

I suggest everyone take that gold money and go by some Kleenex and tampons.

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actually it is EXACTLY.. so he spent over a year to be the biggest on his team only to lose it.. then spent another year to be biggest and LOST IT AGAIN.. and he and others will do it again.. and it is NOT the same as buying a corvette then crying cause next years model is better.. unless you gonna say that you buy the corvette then chevy comes along and rips out all the parts that gives it horsepower..... Gree keeps changing the rules and that way things work and screwing over all the people that spend money to build players up. they are showing is NO POINT to buying gold and building as next year they will just change the rules again. as for the gold for tampons and Kleenex I tried but apparently YOU bought out the whole store aparently your a heavy bleeder.. actually jokes aside instead of turning it to a personal attack you should find constructive comments to make.. or is it your time of the month??? when you build something according to their rules and then when your on top they change the rules you do have a right to complain and when it happens twice you are entitled to a full refund... I know I got a ton back since they changed everything in relation to how game is played and negated all that I and other spent gold on.. gotta love the refund.. almost soiled myself when I saw how much a "light: gold user spends in 3 years

Im 400M and winning over guys 800m in regular A and D. Sadly Im losing to some 200M less than me. All based on the new equipment.

We're going to be doing another AMA on Thursday this week where we discuss these or any other questions you have for us.

However, there are also a few things I can clarify now.

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well. Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome. Chance also plays some role, as it has throughout the history of warfare. The impact of randomness on battle outcomes in the formula is roughly comparable to where it has been throughout the history of the game.

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

The goal of introducing soldier equipment is to allow a new avenue for players to strengthen themselves and bring some importance back to your player in the game. We want you to be able to feel your power grow as you get better and better equipment for yourself and your army. Our goal is that this should be a fun and exciting way to develop your character in addition to building up the army. Your army is still the most important factor in determining your success or failure in war, but equipment will come into play particularly when armies are close in strength.

A number of people have asked about why equipment is not in the store for purchase. Right now, we wanted to allow equipment to be earned in the course of gameplay to reward active players and allow everyone a fair chance to accumulate strength on this. In the future we are planning to increase the number of ways players can get equipment, but for now we wanted to distribute things in the way that seemed the most fun and fair.

As I mentioned before we're having another AMA this week, and we'd love to answer more of your questions during that time.

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

We're going to be doing another AMA on Thursday this week where we discuss these or any other questions you have for us.

However, there are also a few things I can clarify now.

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well. Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome. Chance also plays some role, as it has throughout the history of warfare. The impact of randomness on battle outcomes in the formula is roughly comparable to where it has been throughout the history of the game.

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

The goal of introducing soldier equipment is to allow a new avenue for players to strengthen themselves and bring some importance back to your player in the game. We want you to be able to feel your power grow as you get better and better equipment for yourself and your army. Our goal is that this should be a fun and exciting way to develop your character in addition to building up the army. Your army is still the most important factor in determining your success or failure in war, but equipment will come into play particularly when armies are close in strength.

A number of people have asked about why equipment is not in the store for purchase. Right now, we wanted to allow equipment to be earned in the course of gameplay to reward active players and allow everyone a fair chance to accumulate strength on this. In the future we are planning to increase the number of ways players can get equipment, but for now we wanted to distribute things in the way that seemed the most fun and fair.

As I mentioned before we're having another AMA this week, and we'd love to answer more of your questions during that time.

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I'm out, slashed and burned and then onward gave away everything, so I'll say it as it is then leave for ever, so no point banning me for good - in fact you'll do me a favour. Was in the process of deleting account when I saw this.
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Complete BS. I love the way gree couch hard nosed business decisions as if they are doing us a favour.
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Gree noticed revenue dropping off on ILTQ events as the big spenders hardly touch them any more, doing faction events instead. What to do about it? Bring in a system where their unit stat A/D buffer is slashed back to the herd and they have to compete in these events to get the prizes, along with everyone else. Sure, some have big energy regen rates so can do it easier, but a hell of a lot don't, so now have to spend more across ALL events to remain competitive.
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Stop insulting our intelligence. You want everyone under the pump to spend to keep up, not resting through events with a comfortable margin back to the herd. Trouble is, it's backfiring. My entire faction quit, sold up and we just gave it away to a Newbie for free rather than spend another penny on your BS.

Thanks for nothing. Now I'm really gone for good. ban me if you like, couldn't care less.

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well.

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What % of the 50% does defender attack vs attacker defence account for?

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

What % of the 50% does defender attack vs attacker defence account for?

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This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

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:confused:



***edit***

Wtf

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

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So are you not calculating the two ratios individually and then weighting them... (like with the 50/30/20) ? If so what are the weightings?

Also, if defender attack stats matter, wouldn't it make sense to be able to see them on the results screen when we do an attack?

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

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Care to explain how a player can have 22/22 in equipment?

Solder equipment, sucks. Now you have to go for masters or you might as well stop playing, or spending a ton of cash on gold. Player vrs player is for gree so they can make more money.

Change is good but change for change sake and dressed up to revive flagging revenues is not...

Most of my playing buddies have migrated to CoC... Think its time to join them...

Biggest exodus i've seen of $5k-$10k per month spend players.... Hope you know what you are doing MoneyPenny but i think your strings are pulled by a higher hand...

have a great Christmas All..... I'm out for good...

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

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It would be really helpful if you could you confirm how player attack and defence stats are working. Are they adding to army stats in the 50%, so are effectively meaningless? Or are they added to soldier equipment in the 20%? Or applied in some other way?

It doesn't matter how active you are, if you don't get the AK47 in this case, you will fall behind. Losing to someone less than half the stats is bad enough, even with the equipment brought into the equation. Take this example:

say you have a knife and some pretty strong, expensive armor (person A) whilst your opponent (person B) has a gun and virtually no armor whatsoever. Even with the strong armor you'd expect person A to lose as person B can freely move about and shoot person person A without any real harm, as long as he stays out of knife reach. If you take out the theory of some ****ed up superpowers or any extremely unlikely events, person B will win hands down. Take that example and put it into this game (I know that I'm comparing real life to some game and most of the time that is incomparable) and you'll realise that this idea is absurd and if equipment is going to have an affect on pvp then maybe gree should reconsider making it have less of an impact on the result. Just my opinion but I believe it's justified

You're forgetting the potential impact of the watch, sunglasses and boots.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

It would be really helpful if you could you confirm how player attack and defence stats are working. Are they adding to army stats in the 50%, so are effectively meaningless? Or are they added to soldier equipment in the 20%? Or applied in some other way?

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Expect another incoherent response... if main devs appear with cluelessness in their responses - it's a good signal for all guinea pigs who spent real $ to perhaps poke around themselves for either another game that's actually well run and even more fun, or another old forgotten app called "REAL LIFE' - it can be totally cool at times with right worldview... :cool:

Lights out on main act, allies dropped to whatever grunts sitting there, over $200b unvaulted, all those in need of cash will have long time to chip away in $3.6m increments - enjoy! :rolleyes:

mini left to observe end and fade away in small faction - thanks GREE for finishing nailing coffin of once really cool game - few in this market could do such damage to a game if they tried intentionally, or was it the strategy to kill it?...

-_-

Yeah, **** it. I'm bailing too. Ya'll have fun.

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Originally Posted by Milburn Pennybags

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. [...]Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome.

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This makes sense. Let's consider the following scenario though:

I'm attacking someone, and I'm 200% stronger on Army Attack, while the other person is 1000% stronger than me on Equipment because he has just a few extra items where I have 1, and let's say it's a tie on the Soldier stats.

If it's only a question of adding weighed ratios, then i should lose an attack. Yet this does not seem to be happening: a 200% advantage in Army Attack alone seems to guarantee a win no matter what the other 2 stats are.

So, is there a cap on each ratio to prevent unfair losses while the items are in single digits? if so, what is it?