FAQ Breakdown - Frequently Asked Questions by the beginners

[XBDMRRFPN]

Of course the damage isn't random. It wouldn't make sense if it was. It would be a lot of work to find out how much damage you'll be doing and taking from a normal monster though, and not very practical. You'll have to take into account not only your stats and health at each level, but also the stats and health of each minion in every stage and difficulty.

Also, I've already answered your doubts about what different attacks do and mean in my previous post

Thank you, I appreciated the answer about the bonuses, but I think it's not impossible to create a table of damages

I mean, like in the examples I made, if there is a difference of 150 points between attack and defense the damage done is X if the difference is 200 points the damage done is Y and so on.
I am quite sure that there is a rule and is quite simple.
It can be discovered either with friendly matches either with the bosses (they declare their points)

Once find the rule (that I believe that goes in intervals) it's easy to get all minions statistics


PS about the sense of random I disagree, not because I like random (I actually like that we can discover the rule), but because playing D&D gives, with roll dices, random outcomes, so the game could have done the same.

[Musketeer]

Thank you, I appreciated the answer about the bonuses, but I think it's not impossible to create a table of damages

I mean, like in the examples I made, if there is a difference of 150 points between attack and defense the damage done is X if the difference is 200 points the damage done is Y and so on.
I am quite sure that there is a rule and is quite simple.
It can be discovered either with friendly matches either with the bosses (they declare their points)

Once find the rule (that I believe that goes in intervals) it's easy to get all minions statistics


PS about the sense of random I disagree, not because I like random (I actually like that we can discover the rule), but because playing D&D gives, with roll dices, random outcomes, so the game could have done the same.

Check the Epic Boss Damage thread. This is the best place to start.

[deathexe]

Thank you, I appreciated the answer about the bonuses, but I think it's not impossible to create a table of damages

I mean, like in the examples I made, if there is a difference of 150 points between attack and defense the damage done is X if the difference is 200 points the damage done is Y and so on.
I am quite sure that there is a rule and is quite simple.
It can be discovered either with friendly matches either with the bosses (they declare their points)

Once find the rule (that I believe that goes in intervals) it's easy to get all minions statistics


PS about the sense of random I disagree, not because I like random (I actually like that we can discover the rule), but because playing D&D gives, with roll dices, random outcomes, so the game could have done the same.

Yeah, it's definitely possible, but it just doesn't seem reasonable to do it. As I said, you would have to do it for all monsters on all stages and difficulties. Also, I can't really see the usefulness in doing a monster damage calculator since in most cases all you would have to do is just use the best armors you have with the right combinations and with the help of friends, you would be able to complete most stages (when you're low levelled of course)

But that's just me, since I never really found the news for something like this when I was playing through the maps. It may help others once in awhile I guess. But whoever's gonna do it would have a lot of work on their hands.

[XBDMRRFPN]

Yeah, it's definitely possible, but it just doesn't seem reasonable to do it. As I said, you would have to do it for all monsters on all stages and difficulties. Also, I can't really see the usefulness in doing a monster damage calculator since in most cases all you would have to do is just use the best armors you have with the right combinations and with the help of friends, you would be able to complete most stages (when you're low levelled of course)

But that's just me, since I never really found the news for something like this when I was playing through the maps. It may help others once in awhile I guess. But whoever's gonna do it would have a lot of work on their hands.

if it's a work made by many people is not that huge.
besides discovering the general rule it's all but impossible and I think it could be very helpful actually...
maybe we could discover that having a very good defense is more effective than having a very good attack

for instance (this seems to me after a certain level that the stronger characters have a stronger defense not a stronger attack)

this will make us choose different kind of armors probably

[Marco_]

A table of the hit damages will be really appreciated, it would be enough to understand the outcome of different attack and defense values and know more or less the strength of minions.
The only one known is the boss, from it we could understand the rationale beyond the hit done and received
anyone interested in this search?

Minions == the non-boss storyline monsters? Except for in Kingdom of Darkness you should either 1-hit them or 2-hit them with halfway decent armor, so I don't know if many people see the need to figure out the exact attack and defense values of the various minions. (decompiling the game to see if you can find a table with the exact values would probably be less of a PITA than trial and error...)

[XBDMRRFPN]

Minions == the non-boss storyline monsters? Except for in Kingdom of Darkness you should either 1-hit them or 2-hit them with halfway decent armor, so I don't know if many people see the need to figure out the exact attack and defense values of the various minions. (decompiling the game to see if you can find a table with the exact values would probably be less of a PITA than trial and error...)

maybe for you but not for the newcomers...

besides discovering the rule will help you in defeating the bosses

so discovering the rule it's surely worth to. we tend to calculate the aggregate of attack and defense. What if in case the defense count actually more in this rule?
Resources spent to craft armors with good attack discovering that the one that has a better defense will win easier?

[Marco_]

maybe for you but not for the newcomers...

Yes, it is 100% useless for newcomers, since they already suffer from confusion/information overload.
Confronting them with tables of minion damage does no good at all.
"pick these elements for best effect at this location" is simple and good enough.

A good example of how confused a large percentage of (new) players are is all the "what is a good combination to fuse armor 'N'" questions and serious suggestions of source armors that you see on the wiki.
Teaching the basics is more important than mathcrafting.
I suspect that mathcrafting isn't important to the bottom 99% of players and for the top 1% minions don't matter...

[Musketeer]

besides discovering the rule will help you in defeating the bosses

so discovering the rule it's surely worth to. we tend to calculate the aggregate of attack and defense. What if in case the defense count actually more in this rule?
Resources spent to craft armors with good attack discovering that the one that has a better defense will win easier?

If you're not already putting on your best possible armors to fight then knowing the exact damage numbers isn't going to help. A couple of runs through each stage should be enough to tell you what your best options are. You want to minimize damage taken, while taking out each minion with one hit as much as possible. It's pretty simple.

For Fighting the Epic Boss, it's nice to have some idea if when to add extra knights, and BethMo's thread gives you the formulas required to get a close idea of numbers.

[XBDMRRFPN]

If you're not already putting on your best possible armors to fight then knowing the exact damage numbers isn't going to help. A couple of runs through each stage should be enough to tell you what your best options are. You want to minimize damage taken, while taking out each minion with one hit as much as possible. It's pretty simple.

For Fighting the Epic Boss, it's nice to have some idea if when to add extra knights, and BethMo's thread gives you the formulas required to get a close idea of numbers.

maybe you can forecast better than me but to me happened that I hired 2 friends and I defeated the boss without them... I wasted 2 friends slot while I could have know that I was enough.
I mean it looks like some people here doesn't want to make an effort to understand the rule of the attack and defense?
Besides how do you know which is your best armor if you don't know how the fight is calculated?

That's sounds strange to me, very strange

[XBDMRRFPN]

Yes, it is 100% useless for newcomers, since they already suffer from confusion/information overload.
Confronting them with tables of minion damage does no good at all.
"pick these elements for best effect at this location" is simple and good enough.

A good example of how confused a large percentage of (new) players are is all the "what is a good combination to fuse armor 'N'" questions and serious suggestions of source armors that you see on the wiki.
Teaching the basics is more important than mathcrafting.
I suspect that mathcrafting isn't important to the bottom 99% of players and for the top 1% minions don't matter...

well I disagree.
Your example doesn't make sense because you compare a certain thing (the rule of attack vs defense) with something completely uncertain like the armor fusions

surely the armor fusion rules increased the confusion in newcomers, but not the stats about the armors that helped to discover to not waste time on monks and craft the big4

"you cannot manage what you cannot measure"
without knowing the rule of attack and defense you can't really know which is your best armor

it's like playing risk! without knowing the rule of fighting with the rolled dices (that in case of even make the defense winner). I guess there must be something similar.

how can be underestimated the importance of a rule like seems to me really absurd.

[Marco_]

Minions don't matter: they're cannon fodder. It's as simple as that. They're just there to provide shards and stand in your way while getting to the storyline bosses.
Defense/health stats on the storyline bosses might be helpful though, so you know when to special attack and don't accidentally kill them with a random crit. (but then non-killing random crits come in and it gets too complicated for people most of whom probably just play the game for a few minutes now and then spread over the day...)
Keep it simple. Damage tables might be useful to a bot program farming the game, but not for most humans playing a "casual" phone/tablet game.
For ex. the amount of "pretty, but not very effective" armors even in ribbon 1 and bronze in the arena on Android is just silly/painfull to a hardcore follower of this forum/the spreadsheet, but apparently lots of casually competitive people go with pretty things they've fused together or gotten from DPC...
Just pointing out that although your "product" might be good in theory, there's just no interested market for it...

[XBDMRRFPN]

Minions don't matter: they're cannon fodder. It's as simple as that. They're just there to provide shards and stand in your way while getting to the storyline bosses.
Defense/health stats on the storyline bosses might be helpful though, so you know when to special attack and don't accidentally kill them with a random crit. (but then non-killing random crits come in and it gets too complicated for people most of whom probably just play the game for a few minutes now and then spread over the day...)
Keep it simple. Damage tables might be useful to a bot program farming the game, but not for most humans playing a "casual" phone/tablet game.
For ex. the amount of "pretty, but not very effective" armors even in ribbon 1 and bronze in the arena on Android is just silly/painfull to a hardcore follower of this forum/the spreadsheet, but apparently lots of casually competitive people go with pretty things they've fused together or gotten from DPC...
Just pointing out that although your "product" might be good in theory, there's just no interested market for it...

I am afraid you didn't get my point.
Think about the game: "Risk!"
without knowing the rule of combat how can you play?
You simply can't.
I want to discover that rule and maybe apply to some scenarios.

[SoloStar]

The game is playable, obviously shown by all the people that play it. It's not advanced or technical as other games with HP bar counters, dexterity stats for hits/misses, crits, etc. It's just a basic game.

[Marco_]

Nah, I'd more liken what you want to do as trying to figure out what kind of plastic the Risk play pieces are made of... :P
We've already got epic boss damage formulas which are nice for the geeks and uninteresting for 99% of the player base.
You want to reverse-engineer damage formulas for way less relevant monsters, also with zero guarantee that Gree doesn't tweak/change the values at some point in time. That's just a lot of investment for near zero use.

[Musketeer]

maybe you can forecast better than me but to me happened that I hired 2 friends and I defeated the boss without them... I wasted 2 friends slot while I could have know that I was enough.
I mean it looks like some people here doesn't want to make an effort to understand the rule of the attack and defense?
Besides how do you know which is your best armor if you don't know how the fight is calculated?

That's sounds strange to me, very strange

Our point is we DO know how the fight is calculated. Earth beats Air, Air Beats Water etc. Beats = 50% extra damage. It's very simple.

Say you are running Skeletons [sic] Tomb Valor Stage. The monsters will be water and earth, so you can choose a Spirit armor with safety. If you choose wind to beat water you'll take 50% extra damage from the Earth monsters, so it's usually a good idea not to. Spirit/Earth would be a safe combo armor. Once you're powerful enough you can choose Water/Earth armor for zero extra damage, because you'll be killing in one blow anyway and only taking 1 damage from each minion.

Also, please tell me you have looked at BethMo's thread about beating the epic bosses, which I already told you about. The formulas you need are already there if you really want to calculate att/def for every minion in every stage (btw, they're not always the same lineup, so you'll need to run through every one several times). You can even estimate their hit points with enough runs through if you really want to.


Just one run through any stage anywhere in your best armor will show you if you can beat it without friends. If you didn't, bring a friend along the next time.

Yes, I CAN forecast better than you, because I've already beaten all the stages in the map. If you can't figure out what your best armor is yet, read some more threads on the Forum.