Att vs Def

Going to keep this as short as poss.

Respect to all the forum members been a fan for a while.

I am at 55k def (around 50k real def). I collect on time mostly but when I don't I get robbed by ppl with between 29k - 32k att. my wall goes green, red, green, red etc. A couple have been kind enough to let me know they won 1/5 or 1/7.

I stipulate that if a person is willing to spend enough stamina on robbing a building of yours, the defense for that building will slowly break down no matter your defense and eventually you just lose.

I've put a lot of points into fending off enemy attacks as well, but isn't it as it reads 'better chance against attacks'?

Appreciate any thoughts.

I don't worry about defense.

I bank my 40% and go attack/rob someone else who is weaker and richer than I am.

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Originally Posted by Johnno

Going to keep this as short as poss.

Respect to all the forum members been a fan for a while.

I am at 55k def (around 50k real def). I collect on time mostly but when I don't I get robbed by ppl with between 29k - 32k att. my wall goes green, red, green, red etc. A couple have been kind enough to let me know they won 1/5 or 1/7.

I stipulate that if a person is willing to spend enough stamina on robbing a building of yours, the defense for that building will slowly break down no matter your defense and eventually you just lose.

I've put a lot of points into fending off enemy attacks as well, but isn't it as it reads 'better chance against attacks'?

Appreciate any thoughts.

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As I understand it your defense score is cut in half for robberies so if your att is 50k then theoretically someone with a 25k att has a shot at winning.

That would explain why I get robbed by people with such low attack numbers.

I'm at a loss on this too Johnno. I had thought for a long time that if my defense was double what the person trying to rob me, they would not have a chance. Last week I had one of the red/green/red/green walls by someone 15.9K attack, at the time I had around 31K defense. Well they were still over half, so I wrote it off. Then over the weekend someone with 14.9K attack was able to rob a building (albeit only one hit) when I had 32.1K defense. I have yet to lose in a fight though to someone that is that much lower than me.

I don't care about the cash because it was a small amount. It ticks me off that I've spent gold on def buildings along with a ton of game cash and my defense can still be hit by weak players. I don't want to hear the skill point argument either, my def skill points are in the triple digits.

It's probably because some with a low "advertised" attack score may have a huge attack skills multiplier. They dumped a lot into attack when leveling up versus into energy, for instance.

I think it is that the game design favors attack over defense.

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Originally Posted by emcee

It's probably because some with a low "advertised" attack score may have a huge attack skills multiplier. They dumped a lot into attack when leveling up versus into energy, for instance.

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As I said, my skill points for def is in the triple digits.

I think part of the equation is still a roll of the dice. It isn't a straight math formula. That's why I get most of my cash from robberies, only attacking when I have a quest to complete or someone just has a ton of money unsecured.

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Originally Posted by frenda

I think part of the equation is still a roll of the dice. It isn't a straight math formula. That's why I get most of my cash from robberies, only attacking when I have a quest to complete or someone just has a ton of money unsecured.

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+1 to frenda

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Originally Posted by blondealex

As I said, my skill points for def is in the triple digits.

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Perhaps their Att Skill Points are higher than your Def Skill Points.

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Originally Posted by CounterSniper

Perhaps their Att Skill Points are higher than your Def Skill Points.

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Enough to offset a 100% stat advantage?

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Originally Posted by Tramp Stamp

Enough to offset a 100% stat advantage?

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That was my thought, but I let it go. At level 151 with over 20K fights won and 17K+ robberies I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by blondealex

That was my thought, but I let it go. At level 151 with over 20K fights won and 17K+ robberies I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

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Dont be a smart ass. If you are so frickin superior then don't come to a community forum and whine.

Its about an exchange of ideas and not attitude.

I think real def number doesn't mean much by itself. We need to further divide it into real building def and item def numbers respectively.

@blondealex. What could have happened is that the person had a lot of explosives when they attacked you that they have gradually lost over time. If they did not replace them, When you check in on their stats they would be significantly lower than when they attacked you.

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Originally Posted by Joeycool

@blondealex. What could have happened is that the person had a lot of explosives when they attacked you that they have gradually lost over time. If they did not replace them, When you check in on their stats they would be significantly lower than when they attacked you.

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That was my first thought. I logged about 20 min after the robbery and checked, they had no explosives, and have Not had any since. All that I can figure is that my true defense has to be double. I know the building defense is just over half what my profile shows, so thought if the total value was double the attacking person that it would be safe.
@counter sniper - wasn't whining on the forum. There have been many discussions on here related to atk vs def. The reason that I had attitude is because in my initial post I said that I had triple digit def skill points. Meaning I had already thought of that, and it would have been impossible for them to have enough to make a difference. Yet I still get 2 replies saying "maybe it was skill points". The person's stats weren't good enough for them to be rolling with enough points that could have made a difference.

Bottom line - I know that no matter what someone can rob anyone. It would be nice however to know what value all these Gatling turrets, Maui Thai centers, Body Gaurd agencies, etc that I have been buying add up too.

What's to say he has twice your skill points in attack vs defense. My camper account will eventually have 500+ attack skill points invested. So having 3 digits does not make your invulnerable.

500+ is an awful lot of attack skill points.

Still accounts for only 5,000 attack points.

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Originally Posted by Swifty

500+ is an awful lot of attack skill points.

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I know. Imagine that coupled with top 1% economy, max M4s (will take a while to farm with 260 energy), best respect items and definitely the best purchasable items including explosives. Like to give hardcore gold players a run for their money especially with the help of Tapjoy.

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Originally Posted by Tramp Stamp

Still accounts for only 5,000 attack points.

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I'm making reference to the attack skills multiplier which has never been disclosed by Funzio. Hopefully even people with defense stats north of 100,000 will not be able to win.

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Originally Posted by emcee

I'm making reference to the attack skills multiplier which has never been disclosed by Funzio.

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But reversed engineered by forum members. The formula is

mult = 1.09 + 0.09 * (level - 1)
if mult > 10 then mult = 10

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Originally Posted by emcee

Hopefully even people with defense stats north of 100,000 will not be able to win.

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You're dreaming, unless you're talking about people with 50x level 10 Bodyguard Agencies.

The only thing I can explain why people with say less than half attack relative to the posted defense score is the multifplier. If that is indeed the case there must be another variable that comes into play to determine an attack outcome.

Perhaps the reversed engineered formula is off by a decimal point which may explain things.

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Originally Posted by emcee

The only thing I can explain why people with say less than half attack relative to the posted defense score is the multifplier. If that is indeed the case there must be another variable that comes into play to determine an attack outcome.

Perhaps the reversed engineered formula is off by a decimal point which may explain things.

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I learned long ago to never question TS when it comes to the numbers, I simply bow before him.

I'm not claiming authority on this one, but I do think expecting skill points to crack 100k def is lunacy.

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Originally Posted by Tramp Stamp

I'm not claiming authority on this one, but I do think expecting skill points to crack 100k def is lunacy.

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Maybe not but you are the man when it comes to the math.

So has it been determined whether the skill points show up in the numbers displayed in the att/rob result screen and/or the players stat screen.

Skill points are not included in the calculation.

It may be crazy to hope to crack someone with 100k defense but I will give it a go. It will take a very long time to get posted attack score over 50k (M4s, Whips, etc) and will see what effect the 500+ attack skill points will do. Stay tuned 3 years from now :(

Payam may be in a nursing home by then.

Wasn't the skill point calculation pulled from the game data long ago? Seems like the mighty Allhail did it.

I guess the upshot is that if you rob someone enough times eventually you will win then. Which is fair enough I suppose. I would not want to loose that many explosives. Or waste my energy on several failed attempts.

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Originally Posted by blondealex

Wasn't the skill point calculation pulled from the game data long ago? Seems like the mighty Allhail did it.

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I don't know who posted the numbers in the first place (probably allhaildiscordia, let him be praised gain) but I've seen entries named pvp_attack_scale and pvp_defense_scale tabled by level in the game data and they fit the formula TrampStamp mentioned.

Yeah TS's formula was the same. I was just making sure that I wasn't being delusional.

Do we know how large the random element is?

Was it ever back-calculated, or extracted from the data?

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Originally Posted by Joeycool

I guess the upshot is that if you rob someone enough times eventually you will win then. Which is fair enough I suppose. I would not want to loose that many explosives. Or waste my energy on several failed attempts.

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I've robbed people repeatedly, even after losing initially, and I end up breaking even most of the time, unless the opponents Def is much higher than twice my Atk. I've done it as a trial, trying to fathom the threshold, but since the skill points adds another variable, I've decided any more than 1.5x of mine is too much.

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Originally Posted by Swifty

Do we know how large the random element is?

Was it ever back-calculated, or extracted from the data?

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Not that I've seen Swifty. That is probably the biggest part of my confusion.