[Updated] Official 11+ Movement Thread

[mikieblue]

Patience is running out for many knd players. Poor communication and lacking effort from GREE has brought together many top players and guilds...

We all love this game and change needs to happen. We need to grab GREE's attention! I'll be acting as a spokesperson for knd players and contacting gree directly on Monday.

We support:
* Better rewards for top 50 guilds in war
* New map levels
* GM ability to kick leechers without reward.
* Additional things to do for level 100+
* HC only to have declare ability.
* Additional LT quests to be added.
* Hacking prevention and stricter checks

We are asking ALL players to...

* Post the list of requirements in a comment on play store, titled. we support the 11+ movemenent
* Add "I support 11+ movement" to forum signatures
* Spread awareness of what we are doing...

**Please refrain from boycotting in the forums as this is against ToS. Thanks!! (Elita)**

[iH8tBANNEDftw]

Patience is running out for many knd players. Poor communication and lacking effort from GREE has brought together many top players and guilds...

We all love this game and change needs to happen. We need to grab GREE's attention! I'll be acting as a spokesperson for knd players and contacting gree directly on Monday.

We support:
* Better rewards for top 50 guilds in war
* New map levels
* GM ability to kick leechers without reward.
* Additional things to do for level 100+
* HC only to have declare ability.
* Additional LT quests to be added.
* Hacking prevention and stricter checks

We are asking ALL players to...

*Change play store rating to 1*
* Post the list of requirements in a comment on play store, titled. we support the 11+ movemenent
* Add "I support 11+ movement" to forum signatures
* Spread awareness of what we are doing...
Instead of allowing gm to kick leechers, why don't they make it so gms have to set a minimum point req before the war, and if you dont meet it then you don't get the rewards.

[ShadowDash1089]

Hello dear KnD community players and critics.
the above are a list or goals that the united guilds decided to support and promote !
all the community members are asked to participate and forward these actions to their guilds and guild members.
please dont start suggesting / questioning because this isnt the time or place to do so. the group has already assembled and offered anyone to join.
THIS IS THE TIME TO ACT!

*for gree staff/devs - we know that youre viewing these threads and posts.
a big cut of your customers just united to get better game exp, please do not ignore and drag on our quest.
surely the results will benefit both for us.

[smujica93]

Instead of allowing gm to kick leechers, why don't they make it so gms have to set a minimum point req before the war, and if you dont meet it then you don't get the rewards.

Midwar, one of our members had something terrible happen to him that didn't allow him to finish the war. He was a veteran member and gemmer, so we trusted him and know he wasn't lying. With this point requirement system, he wouldn't have gotten the epic, even though he deserved it.

[bosskiller]

Not everyone wants only HCs to declare. Also, kicking people with no reward is already possible.

[Sol Invictus]

Things need to change.
Guilds outside the top 10 need something worth fighting for, and spending money on.

Elita also posted a poll about what improvements we'd like to see weeks and weeks and weeks ago, with no word on any followup. Expanding the Kingdom won, and yet the only significant change we've seen is the abhorrent guild gifting feature.

We are many and we are active. We are your best customers and, if you keep us happy, your most vocal advocates, GREE.

The changes we want to see will benefit you. Make it happen.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

I support the 11+ movement.

[ZERO_07]

Increase the chance of getting an Epic from chests. 1% is not acceptable.

[09cobaltss]

Q Mob and Thundera support the movement

[xtwist3dx]

BoP supports this!!!!!!

[PaIadineguru]

Gree might take a page from icelands CCP and let the playerbase elect representatives to a council which act as a liaison with a chosen dev or director to better hear the playerbases concerns. This move was one that led to CCP's game eve-online growing over ten + years now. And could help this game survive beyond the usual hyperinflation to obsolescence.

[09cobaltss]

^ this would be nice

[cheruvin]

:):):):):):):):):):)

[FenMiHuo]

Increase the chance of getting an Epic from chests. 1% is not acceptable.

This for me, spending 300 dollars to open chests and getting 1 legendary 0 epics is awful, I will rewrite gree's chest algorithm for free if they let me so it wont suck and make me hate the game.
This is what the 11+ movement is missing for me

[Revolutionist]

I have started to circulate this on iOS as well. It's time for Gree to get their sh** together. We've put up with this for long enough. If they want to play like this, we'll make their store ratings plummet and they can watch how much it will affect their new player gathering. The sad thing is that we're offering them a way to make more money and they still haven't taken us up on it. This has potential to be one of the best games ever on a mobile device, but they won't put the work in.

I sure as hell support the 11+ movement

[steelcityunited]

I support this and hope people are also changing thier review ongoogle play too

[X_Swarpz_X]

My review is changed in the play store. And so is everyone elses in my guild. We support the 11+ movement

[bosskiller]

I support this.

[Dianish]

I support it.

But i do not support G+ so i cannot rate the game.

[Kaylaena]

Such support of much change. Wow.

[XxKillinYouxX]

BoP supports this!!!!!!



We support the the 11+ movement!

Bulls on Parade
The Bull Pen
BoP Branding Room
Bustin Bull Balls

Gree will see no more of my cash till things change...

[SmokeSomePeaches]

I support it. But can't you already kick a leecher as soon as the war ends before anyone gets a prize and they don't get anything?

[sxespanky]

i checked the play store - theres a lotta ppl i see in there with 11+ 1*

[cristian]

Support the 11movment.
Also plz do an update of trading armors.

[Dark Prince]

For all you saying that you support this go into the App store and post this.

http://i62.tinypic.com/260v8e8.jpg

[smujica93]

I support the 11+ movement. So many people are tired of GREE's money whoring tactics. I know I speak for a lot of people when I say that the only reason I stick around is for the people, and NOT the content.

[sxespanky]

Support the 11movment.
Also plz do an update of trading armors.

can people please give up on this? i think it'll ruin the game. next thing ya know theyll have a real money auction house that they take a percentage out of like diablo - which got closed because it RUINed the game.

[infliction]

You guys are ridiculous.

IF you succeed at making a noticeable dent in the overall game rating, all you're doing is accelerating the demise of the game you "love".

Make your demands reasonable (pick 1 or 2 that can be implemented easily) and stick to it by not spending in game. What kind of message are you sending to GREE when you spend enough money to be a top 10 guild and prance in your shiny armor, yet whine all day on the forums. Yes this is direct message to Majestic Alliance... you can't "lead" this movement with your hypocrisy. If you want change, you and all your alliance guilds should stand down and not spend (no chests, no war gems... nothing) and hold your ground until your changes are addressed.

I just don't get how Majestic can demand change and state that it's important to them, yet pay GREE for status quo.

And the sense of entitlement is nauseating. The game is designed exactly how GREE wants it to be designed. They'll make changes as they see fit and if you don't like what you're seeing, then you simply don't buy their product. You as a consumer have the final word on everything, yet you think this free phone game should be customized and catered to your own needs. If you don't like it, change your rating to a 1, uninstall, and walk away. Don't change your rating to a 1, whine all day, play all day, and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars.

+11 movement needs clearer focus, a bigger impact, and most of all, leadership that is willing to follow up with true actions and not just words.

[sxespanky]

You guys are ridiculous.

IF you succeed at making a noticeable dent in the overall game rating, all you're doing is accelerating the demise of the game you "love".

Make your demands reasonable (pick 1 or 2 that can be implemented easily) and stick to it by not spending in game.

like this? http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?73018-**OFFICIAL**-Feedback-and-Suggestions-Thread!

[smujica93]

You guys are ridiculous.

IF you succeed at making a noticeable dent in the overall game rating, all you're doing is accelerating the demise of the game you "love".

Make your demands reasonable (pick 1 or 2 that can be implemented easily) and stick to it by not spending in game. What kind of message are you sending to GREE when you spend enough money to be a top 10 guild and prance in your shiny armor, yet whine all day on the forums. Yes this is direct message to Majestic Alliance... you can't "lead" this movement with your hypocrisy. If you want change, you and all your alliance guilds should stand down and not spend (no chests, no war gems... nothing) and hold your ground until your changes are addressed.

I just don't get how Majestic can demand change and state that it's important to them, yet pay GREE for status quo.

And the sense of entitlement is nauseating. The game is designed exactly how GREE wants it to be designed. They'll make changes as they see fit and if you don't like what you're seeing, then you simply don't buy their product. You as a consumer have the final word on everything, yet you think this free phone game should be customized and catered to your own needs. If you don't like it, change your rating to a 1, uninstall, and walk away. Don't change your rating to a 1, whine all day, play all day, and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars.

+11 movement needs clearer focus, a bigger impact, and most of all, leadership that is willing to follow up with true actions and not just words.

Not spending at all will do nothing, simply because of the prisoner's dilemma it introduces. Even if the entire top 25 chooses not to spend at all, then what's to stop 26-100 from spending and taking top 10? Let's face it, none of the spenders will stop spending. DK won't, Majestic won't, OTB won't, and neither will the rest. So, instead of attacking Majestic, why don't you focus on the issue at hand here, which is that GREE has not and probably will not address any of our requests. And if you're so convinced that you know how this movement should be handled, then why don't you start your own movement? As long as top 10 rewards include war epics, not spending at all is unrealistic. Period.

[PhoenixZee]

I agree. I'm not in the Situation Room, but as I understand it while it may be true that Majestic was the catalyst, or at least the launching point, there are representatives from dozens of other guilds - Top 10 and others...and all seem to be onboard with it.

Why are you so sore at Majestic anyway? They aren't always Top 10 contenders and they barely ranked last time; it took two days of consistent back and forth with Forsaken.

They placed, they have placed in the past, and they'll likely place again...it benefits everyone, not just them.

Did you get shot down by them or something, or were you in Forsaken and pissed that you lost? You shouldn't be; they fought hard and were it not for their many leechers there's a good chance they woulda made #10 instead.

[seta sojiro]

Knights of Furyans supports this movement!!!

[infliction]

Not spending at all will do nothing, simply because of the prisoner's dilemma it introduces. Even if the entire top 25 chooses not to spend at all, then what's to stop 26-100 from spending and taking top 10? Let's face it, none of the spenders will stop spending. DK won't, Majestic won't, OTB won't, and neither will the rest. So, instead of attacking Majestic, why don't you focus on the issue at hand here, which is that GREE has not and probably will not address any of our requests. And if you're so convinced that you know how this movement should be handled, then why don't you start your own movement? As long as top 10 rewards include war epics, not spending at all is unrealistic. Period.

If you got a bunch of the top guilds to stop spending and demonstrated to GREE that you mean business, I am 100% certain that they would take notice and address it. You don't need all top 25 guilds to participate.

Also, if Majestic is not willing to stop spending and is willing to pay for exactly what GREE is offering, then clearly they don't see major issues with the game.

I wouldn't start a movement, unless I saw a need and felt there would be enough support to produce a change. The game as it is draws enough interest and is free to play outside the top 10 guilds. I don't agree that top 50 should be rewarded with great prizes. They get mediocre rewards for their mediocre results. I do agree that top 11-20 should receive better rewards, but I'll let them fight their own battles.

The only thing I really want to see from your list is the ability to boot people during war, but I imagine that could affect the war mechanics and may result in a bigger change that you think. I certainly wouldn't start a movement (maybe a bowel movement) over this change.

And again, all I'm saying is that it's hypocritical to demand change and whine and cry on the forums, while paying GREE tons of money. If you're unwilling to stop paying, then clearly the only message you're sending is that everything is OK.

[PhoenixZee]

I wouldn't start a movement, unless I saw a need and felt there would be enough support to produce a change. The game as it is draws enough interest and is free to play outside the top 10 guilds. I don't agree that top 50 should be rewarded with great prizes. They get mediocre rewards for their mediocre results. I do agree that top 11-20 should receive better rewards, but I'll let them fight their own battles.

And again, all I'm saying is that it's hypocritical to demand change and whine and cry on the forums, while paying GREE tons of money. If you're unwilling to stop paying, then clearly the only message you're sending is that everything is OK.

I think you're spot on here. Again, using Forsaken as a case in point...they never quit until the last day, and if I recall right 12-20 were pretty much in flux throughout the first day and a half as well.

It would be much nicer to have more solid rewards for those guys instead of significantly weak and aged older epic bosses or legendaries. While it's true that nobody forced them to do it, they still put a significant amount of money towards a goal they just so happened to fail to achieve. While maybe not a GW epic is worthy, some other form of credible reward is certainly warranted.

And you are absolutely correct. I'm tired of seeing people say, not only here but in oher F2P games that they're tired of seeing what they perceive as injustice, yet continue to pay for the most current shiny object so they can stay ahead of the curve.

If we had even 1 3-day war where 1-10 were completely unknowns, or irregulars...and #1 took it with a guild who scored like, 1m points...or shoot, even a fraction of what DK usually scores, Gree would be forced to take notice. How much lost revenue is that?

Anyone with the time to calculate that?

[infliction]

I agree. I'm not in the Situation Room, but as I understand it while it may be true that Majestic was the catalyst, or at least the launching point, there are representatives from dozens of other guilds - Top 10 and others...and all seem to be onboard with it.

Why are you so sore at Majestic anyway? They aren't always Top 10 contenders and they barely ranked last time; it took two days of consistent back and forth with Forsaken.

They placed, they have placed in the past, and they'll likely place again...it benefits everyone, not just them.

Did you get shot down by them or something, or were you in Forsaken and pissed that you lost? You shouldn't be; they fought hard and were it not for their many leechers there's a good chance they woulda made #10 instead.

Lol, the top 10 guilds are on board, but are stilling paying thousands of dollars every war. Clearly, they aren't on board.

Why am I sore with Majestic? Lol, I'm not. I'm not concerned with where Majestic placed or where Forsaken placed. All I'm saying is that their members are paying thousands of dollars (collectively) to play during a 3 day war. Not to mention the numerous hundreds and thousands spent on chests by the teams. This behavior is a direct statement to GREE that the game is fine as is and is worth spending hundreds (individually) each week. If Majestic wants to lead this movement, they should make a real statement about the game.

And if you must know, I don't compete with Majestic nor with Forsaken. They aren't even in the same league as us.

[PhoenixZee]

And if you must know, I don't compete with Majestic nor with Forsaken. They aren't even in the same league as us.

I don't need to know, nor did I ask. I'll admit the post probably came out harsher than intended, but it's done now. From the language used I'd guess you're someone in the DK family, but even if not...nobody to my knowledge was trying to claim either of them was in the same league as the upper tier. A simple look at the scores announces that loudly.

[smujica93]

And if you must know, I don't compete with Majestic nor with Forsaken. They aren't even in the same league as us.

Looks like someone feels the need to puff out their chest on forums.

[smujica93]

By the way Infliction, if you were in a guild that "wasn't even in the same league" as Majestic or Forsaken, then you would be in a guild that is ranked higher than them, which means you would spend more than us. Way to contradict your own argument.

[infliction]

By the way Infliction, if you were in a guild that "wasn't even in the same league" as Majestic or Forsaken, then you would be in a guild that is ranked higher than them, which means you would spend more than us. Way to contradict your own argument.

We do spend more than you. What contradiction?

I don't believe in your movement and I like the game. I won't rate this game a 1 star and I won't constantly whine about it. Of course, I would love to see some changes, but I'm happy to spend on the game as is.

Good luck with your movement and your constant whining. Just don't get your hopes up, unless you're willing to make a real statement.

[smujica93]

We do spend more than you. What contradiction?

I don't believe in your movement and I like the game. I won't rate this game a 1 star and I won't constantly whine about it. Of course, I would love to see some changes, but I'm happy to spend on the game as is.

Good luck with your movement and your constant whining. Just don't get your hopes up, unless you're willing to make a real statement.

Who says I'm whining? I continue to spend too. I stick around because of the wars and my guild. I hate GREE as much as the next guy, but I support the movement because I get bored of the lack of content. This post is for the movement. You've said your piece, so I don't see the need to continually criticize it. Take your negativity elsewhere.

[PhoenixZee]

He's certainly abrasive, his delivery could use some tact and he seems to have a bone to pick with Majestic, but ultimately he's not incorrect. I've been playing for roughly a year now, and while I've only lurked off and on the forums, it wasn't enough to know any more that Majestic seems to have earned a lot of ire from a certain segment of the pecking order here, if not specifically why.

That being said, they are attempting a good thing. However, unless there is action behind the chanting absolutely nothing will change. What we have here is tantamount to your workers going on strike over unfair conditions, but half of them continue to show up and cross the picket line. Maybe it's a poor example, but whatever.

You all can shout all you want and change the rating to 1, but unless there is uniform, or even majority cease-spending across the upper tier of the players, GREE will have no reason to do anything other than sit back and chuckle.

You won't stop casual and (self-titled) semi-hardcore people from buying the $1-$20, maybe even $50 packs...but if what...Top 10 x 40 members so 400 players stop purchasing $100-$200 packs, and let's be realistic because we know more people spend a lot more than that...there won't be any kind of dent made.

There has to be action behind the demand.

[smujica93]

The irony of all of this is that the posting guidelines prevent us from engaging "in religious or political discussion, or [promoting] political or legal actions or boycotts against any entity."

"Any entity" would definitely include GREE, so posting about gem boycotts may very well result in bans.

[PhoenixZee]

Boycott...I wonder which definition is used. From merriam-webster.com

"to refuse to buy, use, or participate in (something) as a way of protesting : to stop using the goods or services of (a company, country, etc.) until changes are made"

It's true to an extent, so if they choose to they'll lock 2 posters out of the forums. However, to my knowledge there's only been speculation about the usage of gems, not stopping playing the game. Perhaps it counts, perhaps it doesn't. I'm no lawyer, but do choosing not to buy micro transactions count as a boycott if you still use and support the free product?

[PhoenixZee]

A further piece of speculation for those unafraid to discuss:

If actual banning is game wide and not just website, do you really think they'd ban all of their top spenders, legitimate non-hacked spenders, if everyone invited into that Line chat got HERE with their concerns instead of hiding behind an app?

[PhoenixZee]

I'm just saying GREE clearly isn't beyond listening. There was a large thread asking for time inbetween wars, and look! Still no war yet, unless I'm just not updated.

So they are seeing the complaints...the real issue here is they aren't communicating to us what they see and intend.

[firefly333]

HI've been playing for roughly a year now, and while I've only lurked off and on the forums, it wasn't enough to know any more that Majestic seems to have earned a lot of ire from a certain segment of the pecking order here, if not specifically why..

Actually I like littlefish the gm of Majestic quite well and I support Maj Mikie the GM of Majestic Alliance in these efforts. Ive talked to him and think his idea to call gree and see if he can get thru to someone is a good idea before embracing negative ways to get attention. I dont support Maj paladine who also posts here, so maybe thats why some get the impression Majestic isnt well liked or respected. I have quite a few Majestic friends on pm.

DK Fire

[a MenTaL CaSe]

Id love to see top 100 guilds use free energy only. From what I hear a line chat has already been started gms of all top 99 guilds talk it out.

[09cobaltss]

Well the way I see it is no one should be attacking someone who is willing to ask for change. At least some people are stepping up to the plate and putting ideas out there. It's not whining about it. It's asking them to change a few simple things to make the game better, more fun, and more profitable

[busteroaf]

Ah...

Looks like you guys are having so much fun.

Please continue to debate the fun not spending money and demanding more prizes while others debate that its a losing battle because everyone else who does continue to spend will make up for it. I've always been one to doubt that... if people were going to spend big, they would have already. Same with on iOS side and all those who wanted to down the Rainbow. People tried over and over, and failed. If DPA, Rainbow, SNL, War, and a couple others all stepped out, fully, for a war or two, I really doubt the next in line would have those 40 mil point battles for first.

But please, enlighten us all, have your boycott, demand your demands, rate down the game and see what happens. I've seen other games go through this... and they're still alive and kicking after all these so-called boycotts... and yet they still have wars where the have-nots complain that they can't keep up with the Haves.

[infliction]

Well the way I see it is no one should be attacking someone who is willing to ask for change. At least some people are stepping up to the plate and putting ideas out there. It's not whining about it. It's asking them to change a few simple things to make the game better, more fun, and more profitable

Asking for change is one thing. Getting a bunch of people to rig the app rating to a 1 can deter people from joining the game and accelerate the demise of the game. What good could possibly come out of stopping people from joining this game? Your efforts will either do absolutely nothing (this is what I'm hoping for) OR will slowly erode the game as less people join.

All I'm saying is that if you really want change, organize yourselves and use your money to make a real statement. Paying Gree hundreds of dollars and then rating their app a 1 star is asinine.

[09cobaltss]

I guess downrating a game will kill it but stopping revenue won't. Great logic there. If you like the way the game is running then just do nothing

[infliction]

I guess downrating a game will kill it but stopping revenue won't. Great logic there. If you like the way the game is running then just do nothing

Temporarily cutting revenue will get them to notice and it will hurt them. If it's prolonged, of course it will kill the game. Killing the rating will deter people from joining. Those are people you will never get back.

Try and apply just a moderate level of critical thinking and you'll surprise yourself.

[V3nd3ta]

I fully support the 11+ movement and already left my review. I think the demands and tactic are logical and well thought out.

However, I am starting to feel that those of us organized enough to take action are in the serious minority. For every 1 person that votes 1 star, there are at least 10 newbies voting 5. I just don't see the numbers adding up to making a dent in the rating.

What we lack in numbers, we certainly make up for in buying power. I am sure 50% of the games revenue comes from the top 100 guilds.

I think that the only way we can truly get some traction is if we boycott gems for a week. I know its a pipe dream, but I think its a reasonable sacrifice to make a point.

Yes, other guilds will spend more, we won't get an epic, etc...but if it makes the game better, its worth it.

[busteroaf]

Down-rating a game just makes it so that the game doesn't get the publicity and new users aren't blindly joining a game. They see bad ratings and stay away.

Not spending on wars makes Gree take some notice. Again, I seriously doubt that the guilds in the top 25 area are going to magically come out and super-over-spend if the top 10 was to all boycott one war. I really think it would be a "sweet, we can get an Epic for cheap"... but I could be wrong. Can people put aside their egos and let a war epic slip them by in an attempt to change the game for the better?

Make a true boycott happen and see what happens. That is the only way.

Downrating the game won't do it alone, you're just stopping any new players from trying the game.

[Sol Invictus]

I've always been a big supporter of a gem boycott.

100 people giving 1-star reviews illustrates a severe lack of planning and execution.

[PaIadineguru]

Temporarily cutting revenue will get them to notice and it will hurt them. If it's prolonged, of course it will kill the game. Killing the rating will deter people from joining. Those are people you will never get back.

Try and apply just a moderate level of critical thinking and you'll surprise yourself.

And both are valid tactics to put multilateral pressure on a corporation. As far as critical thinking goes I suggest you consider the kinds of jobs that those with 30,000 dollars a war to spend collectively hold in the real world. Applying multiple levels of pressure on
Corporation is our daily bread and butter. As a CFO if I noticed my two most tracked numbers dropping, I'm pretty sure my board would
Demand answers. Personal in game conflicts aside Id like to see this game continue , flourish, and live up to its potential. This movement
Has put together what a large MAJORITY support. That being the case there will be items more widely supported than others

But the official listed items are the demands of the majority. This movement is not a rebellion by teenagers.
But by savvy real world business professionals. With realistic and obtainable goals and objectives that they
Feel are in the best interest of the overall playerbase and future game growth.

[ZERO_07]

Boycotting is just wishful thinking really, it's never gonna happen. Besides I highly doubt enough players doing it will make much, if any, difference to be honest. It has to be EVERYONE, but people have to put their prides aside which they won't, they want to be called the best and have the best.

[bosskiller]

While a boycott would be nice, it isnt possible. If DK EVER backed down, for any reason, other top 10 guilds would spend more knowing they have a chance for a +. And I highly doubt you can get all top 10 teams to stop their spending.

[firefly333]

While a boycott would be nice, it isnt possible. If DK EVER backed down, for any reason, other top 10 guilds would spend more knowing they have a chance for a +. And I highly doubt you can get all top 10 teams to stop their spending.

For what its worth, no a boycott is not being supported as a means. This thread people asking for one, but as noted, there would be no support for one among the top teams. And as you say, if we step down others would take our place. We might even step down for a boost war, ...but not to boycott, because we dont want more boosts, and think we proved our point who is dominant, that it wouldnt hurt...but who knows if DK actually is able to quit killing full out idk.

[dangdp7]

I agree they need to do something more for top 50 and 100

[09cobaltss]

Temporarily cutting revenue will get them to notice and it will hurt them. If it's prolonged, of course it will kill the game. Killing the rating will deter people from joining. Those are people you will never get back.

Try and apply just a moderate level of critical thinking and you'll surprise yourself. I forgot that it's impossible to change a review on the play store. And as I see it the reviews of the game are the truth

[bosskiller]

For what its worth, no a boycott is not being supported as a means. This thread people asking for one, but as noted, there would be no support for one among the top teams. And as you say, if we step down others would take our place. We might even step down for a boost war, ...but not to boycott, because we dont want more boosts, and think we proved our point who is dominant, that it wouldnt hurt...but who knows if DK actually is able to quit killing full out idk.

Yeah. I think we can be pretty confident a boycott will never happen.

I forgot that it's impossible to change a review on the play store. And as I see it the reviews of the game are the truth

you can change your rating....

[09cobaltss]

I know you can change your rating. That was my point. Apparently giving a one star review is too terrible but stopping spending is ok.

[busteroaf]

I know you can change your rating. That was my point. Apparently giving a one star review is too terrible but stopping spending is ok.

Down-rating the game just makes it less popular in the public eye. An unpopular game is a game that less people will join. Less new people means it really will die when everyone starts leaving with no one to replace them.

Stopping spending would have an impact for sure, but as multiple people have said, there are too many egos out there to get everyone to agree to stop spending to see if it would change anything.

Let us have a refresher of a topic that was around not too long ago.

Everyone remember the Rainbow Room attempt to take over the top 10? People *****ed and moaned about how they were all a bunch of *******s and only wanted Epic+ for themselves. How many times did people try to knock them down, only to end up paying for an expensive second place Epic? EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Hey, all you people that joined Rainbow in the end, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a part of you that wishes you would have been smarted and joined earlier? You'd have a few more GW+ epics to show for it, right? The intention to get everyone on the same page, to have a show of force in the top 10, to be able to spread epics out for cheap... it was there. The biggest reason it didn't happen: EGO. Too many wanted to be "the ones who toppled RR" or were too proud and wanted to do it with their own guild/alliance. So, to this date, we're still in the same place.

Until everyone puts their egos aside, you aren't changing anything.

"We support the 11+... but we still want our Epic+ and not willing to boycott wars for it because someone else will take our spot, and we don't trust anyone else to actually boycott with us."

Its simply not going to happen.

[09cobaltss]

And that's why we aren't boycotting. If you think a few reviews will kill the game then maybe gree will pay attention to it

[busteroaf]

And that's why we aren't boycotting. If you think a few reviews will kill the game then maybe gree will pay attention to it

Won't kill it outright no, but keeps others away from it.

But again: Down-rate the game, but continue to fully fund it. Seems legit. And makes the following quote by Paladineguru all the more comical:


And both are valid tactics to put multilateral pressure on a corporation. As far as critical thinking goes I suggest you consider the kinds of jobs that those with 30,000 dollars a war to spend collectively hold in the real world. Applying multiple levels of pressure on
Corporation is our daily bread and butter. As a CFO if I noticed my two most tracked numbers dropping, I'm pretty sure my board would
Demand answers. Personal in game conflicts aside Id like to see this game continue , flourish, and live up to its potential. This movement
Has put together what a large MAJORITY support. That being the case there will be items more widely supported than others

But the official listed items are the demands of the majority. This movement is not a rebellion by teenagers.
But by savvy real world business professionals. With realistic and obtainable goals and objectives that they
Feel are in the best interest of the overall playerbase and future game growth.

Only down-rating is using one of those multilateral pressure points. What other pressure points are you using then? Not a rebellion by teenagers, but by savvy real world business professionals? Yeah. Right. If so, you'd know you HAVE to disrupt the cash flow. We support the 11+, but are STILL too afraid to stop spending. Oh no. What if we actually succeed and they make changes, and then we don't like THOSE changes we all fought for? What then? What if they close down the game? Well, if they close the game, at least you know you already stopped spending.

[SmokeSomePeaches]

Everyone talking about a rating will make people not download the game in the first place. That's kind of the point of this movement isn't it? If less people are downloading the game less people to start buying more gems from there and grees profit won't rise as much.

[infliction]

I know you can change your rating. That was my point. Apparently giving a one star review is too terrible but stopping spending is ok.

Lol, are you suggesting that changing your review will have no impact? If so, why do it at all?

But let me clear things up for you in very simple terms. Forget the mechanics behind your lame 11+ movement.

The gist of what you're trying to do is prevent users from joining KnD, so that GREE takes notice and applies the changes you're demanding. I'm saying that preventing users from joining KnD (no matter what approach you take) is a bad idea.

I'm also saying that temporarily reducing revenue is a better idea. It disrupts GREE and makes them take notice. They'll likely make up the revenue through future sales, events, and features. Nobody is saying stop spending permanently, but a dip in revenue will force them to act fast.

[Bshappell]

Hell noooooooo

[Kangaroeland]

I agree that whilst changing ratings might not have any influence at all and might not be the best step forward it is the only pressure we can deliver atm. Honestly all of this wouldnt be necessary if gree had people actually reading the forum and conversating with their best customers (which we represent) from time to time.

It saddens me how easy people shut down other peoples ideas but refrain from giving structural input themselves. Its a good thing people actually try to get stuff changed and for a movement that has existed for 2 days and had kind of a rough start id say give it a chance rather then shut it down and laugh instantly.

As for most top10 guilds not spending is not an option we have to find other ways to accomplish these things we want. I for one am happy mikie took the kead on contacting gree and i support him doing that. Please stop bragging about your superduper guild being so cool and having so many epics and gems and still arent complaining to gree. Just shows you dont give a crap about this games longterm survival. Go write a blog about hwo much more gems you spend than majestic and see who cares.

[mikieblue]

I've kept up with this thread & refrained from response as yet due to me not having much time, I hope to make things a little clearer later this evening.

Firstly, Just to be clear for the sake of Infliction, It's me personally who took a lead with this movement & i was just like anybody else who was invited. I believe it was someone called SullenInvictus who set up the group, but it was losing pace and key stake holders (Many top 10) losing interest due to little action and overblown ideas being discussed which we felt would do more harm to the game we love than good. I agreed to take a lead simply because of my personal experience of working in and dealing with major corporations and my understanding of how to best approach them.

Secondly, Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment here.. Healthy debate is always great. Just a shame none of the Dev team have ever shown enough passion about the game as we have to get involved too..

In all honesty, Many of the guys here are asking the same questions as we all asked each other when setting this movement up. What do we want? how far are we willing to go? In all honesty for many of us, we're not willing to go too far. I'll openly admit that and id like to manage this in such a way that ideally nobody does... We shouldn't ever be forced to take agressive action..
PROVIDED WE CHANNEL OUR RESSOVLE WELL ENOUGH TO AND THROUGH THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

Many supported much more aggressive forms of protests when this group was set up before I took over and other top 10 people joined... Ideas being thrown around such as gem boycotts / Spamming tickets /chaining themselves up outside GREE offices holding "READ MY POST GREE" banners.

The simple fact is that we all have a common goal and that's to get improvements made to this game. These hundreds and HUNDREDS of requests have been completely ignored in recent months by GREE.
Did just asking get us anywhere? Posting Admin feedback? the 300 polls?
How about answering the admin poll? did we even get a.. Well this won. So we will try to implement this, thanks for your input! NO.
WE DESERVE AND ARE ALLOWED TO ASK FOR A LITTLE MORE RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION HERE. WE AFTER ALL ARE THE CUSTOMERS.

Changing rating to 1* and supporting this movement is exactly what it says on the tin. SUPPORT. This isn't by any means an aggressive tactic, I made pretty clear from day 1 that Majestic and I know I speak for many of my friends in other top Guilds to say that WE DONT WANT to do to damage the game, we dont want to stop spending... We just want GREE to LISTEN and finally show it's customers a shred of respect for their ongoing business and at least open up some line of communication with us.

Lets be clear, the game when you join and fall in love with it is 5* and a deserved rating of this.
the game we're playing 1 year down the line for most IS a justified 1* rating for us because of many of the issues highlighted by the 11+ movement get you down :( You still have a passion for the game but the lack of passion shown by GREE to make us happier, developing the game we love, improving it for the future is an insult. This DESERVES a 1* rating

We (the long term legacy players) give GREE a huge customer base and financial backbone, the impact to share price etc for happy legacy customers is much more significant than many of you seem to believe. TRUST ME, CUSTOMER LEGACY is worth a HUGE amount of money to any business... REALLY HUGE.

Keeping US happy is in THEIR interest too. 3m posts in these forums with 2 people whining about 1 issue off this list that lasts for 1 week before it's trolled into the ground by some idiot on these boards. This approach doesn't amount to half as much impact as 1 thread with 3000+ LEGACY SPENDERS.

Unfortunately I'm out of time here due to work and barely touched on many of the things I wanted.
As I promised to our supporters. I'll be getting in contact with GREE directly today & will keep you guys updated with how we get on.. Thanks to everyone who has shown support for this & hopefully at very least we will get some intent from GREE about things to come & what we can expect to see short / long term from our goals...


Thanks everyone!

Mikie

[@ngelica]

As PDL we support 11+

[Picklefoot]

TTB (Thicker Than Blood), TTB Alliance, TTB Alliance 2 support the +11 movement.

[Sol Invictus]

it was someone called SullenInvictus who set up the group, but it was losing pace and key stake holders (Many top 10) losing interest due to little action

I don't feel like that happened at all.
I feel like that was manufactured.

I was trying to build a strong base of support, reaching out to as many guilds as I could and, yes, people like you helped get others involved, but most people were sitting there waiting. Until a small minority of members decided that for some reason we had to rush.

But, anyways.

[PB_Buncil]

Down-rating the game just makes it less popular in the public eye. An unpopular game is a game that less people will join. Less new people means it really will die when everyone starts leaving with no one to replace them.

Stopping spending would have an impact for sure, but as multiple people have said, there are too many egos out there to get everyone to agree to stop spending to see if it would change anything.

Let us have a refresher of a topic that was around not too long ago.

Everyone remember the Rainbow Room attempt to take over the top 10? People *****ed and moaned about how they were all a bunch of *******s and only wanted Epic+ for themselves. How many times did people try to knock them down, only to end up paying for an expensive second place Epic? EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Hey, all you people that joined Rainbow in the end, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a part of you that wishes you would have been smarted and joined earlier? You'd have a few more GW+ epics to show for it, right? The intention to get everyone on the same page, to have a show of force in the top 10, to be able to spread epics out for cheap... it was there. The biggest reason it didn't happen: EGO. Too many wanted to be "the ones who toppled RR" or were too proud and wanted to do it with their own guild/alliance. So, to this date, we're still in the same place.

Until everyone puts their egos aside, you aren't changing anything.

"We support the 11+... but we still want our Epic+ and not willing to boycott wars for it because someone else will take our spot, and we don't trust anyone else to actually boycott with us."

Its simply not going to happen.

I really love this post. True and true....

[IronSide]

I have probably made well overy 400 dollars in purchases in the last month to only find myself with one epic I recieved last night. If it is going to take that much for me to get a second im out in fact I AM NOT PURCHASING GEMS ANYMORE. Until we find ourselves with the chance for better fusing odds, sick of tossing two three stars away for a snakeskin armor a one star. If gree really is about the people that play how about you let them play.

Imagine how much I would spend if I didnt have anything bad to say. I have only been playing for a month.

[The Pale Rider]

Midwar, one of our members had something terrible happen to him that didn't allow him to finish the war. He was a veteran member and gemmer, so we trusted him and know he wasn't lying. With this point requirement system, he wouldn't have gotten the epic, even though he deserved it.

That's a rare circumstance and he didn't "deserve" it because he didn't meet minimums. You just wanted him to have it. Set your minimum lower, tell him to give his phone to somebody else or miss out on one armor (ridiculous to abandon the entirecircumstance so you can selectively bestow rewards on people you like who can't finish a war midstream when a tragedy happens). For 99% of guilds this is a non-issue. We have a modest 20K minimum and I get excuses every single war. Bottom line - you can use gems to knock out 20K in one hour - at any point in the 3 days. If you will be traveling with no access to internet, than you don't get the reward and you shouldn't care much.

[The Pale Rider]

The irony of all of this is that the posting guidelines prevent us from engaging "in religious or political discussion, or [promoting] political or legal actions or boycotts against any entity."

"Any entity" would definitely include GREE, so posting about gem boycotts may very well result in bans.

It is not a boycott of GREE to not spend money in K&D on Gems or advocate that others do the same. That said -- you can be banned from a forum for any reason or no reason.

[firefly333]

That's a rare circumstance and he didn't "deserve" it because he didn't meet minimums. You just wanted him to have it. Set your minimum lower, tell him to give his phone to somebody else or miss out on one armor (ridiculous to abandon the entirecircumstance so you can selectively bestow rewards on people you like who can't finish a war midstream when a tragedy happens). For 99% of guilds this is a non-issue. We have a modest 20K minimum and I get excuses every single war. Bottom line - you can use gems to knock out 20K in one hour - at any point in the 3 days. If you will be traveling with no access to internet, than you don't get the reward and you shouldn't care much.

What was discussed in the room was giving the GM the authority to kick right after the war, before rewards are given out. Now once the person joins a guild they still get the war awards even if they leeched.

In this case if the GM decided the excuses were legit or the person was a long standing member, it would be up to the discretion of the GM to allow them to still get the war prizes.

[bosskiller]

What was discussed in the room was giving the GM the authority to kick right after the war, before rewards are given out. Now once the person joins a guild they still get the war awards even if they leeched.

In this case if the GM decided the excuses was legit or the person was a long standing member, it would be up to the discretion of the GM to allow them to still get the war prizes.

this is already possible, isnt it?

[leems]

this is a good but horribly executed movement so far o.O if u want results u got to show resiliance. i.e. top 10 do a surprise sit out, dont alert lower then top 10 guilds and sit back and see if people will really go crazy and try to fill your shoes. IMHO i doubt the high will be more then 6 mil. u might get a straggler whos been building up or gearing for it like the last war, but doubt it after being demoralized by DK.

[firefly333]

this is already possible, isnt it?

nope, as i said above, even if you kick before awards come out they still get them.

I think I saw pale rider mention ...if you are not online during the redemption period is the only way you would not get rewards.

[Quimpz]

U2EZ support Majestic all the way! also the +11 Movement!

[09cobaltss]

this is a good but horribly executed movement so far o.O if u want results u got to show resiliance. i.e. top 10 do a surprise sit out, dont alert lower then top 10 guilds and sit back and see if people will really go crazy and try to fill your shoes. IMHO i doubt the high will be more then 6 mil. u might get a straggler whos been building up or gearing for it like the last war, but doubt it after being demoralized by DK. are you in the chat?

[TakeTheirTeeth]

I agree. I'm not in the Situation Room, but as I understand it while it may be true that Majestic was the catalyst, or at least the launching point, there are representatives from dozens of other guilds - Top 10 and others...and all seem to be onboard with it.

Why are you so sore at Majestic anyway? They aren't always Top 10 contenders and they barely ranked last time; it took two days of consistent back and forth with Forsaken.



They placed, they have placed in the past, and they'll likely place again...it benefits everyone, not just them.

Did you get shot down by them or something, or were you in Forsaken and pissed that you lost? You shouldn't be; they fought hard and were it not for their many leechers there's a good chance they woulda made #10 instead.

I was there, and yes there was a damn good chance if 10+ freeloading scammers would have fought instead of running their mouths and not fighting.

[The Pale Rider]

What was discussed in the room was giving the GM the authority to kick right after the war, before rewards are given out. Now once the person joins a guild they still get the war awards even if they leeched.

In this case if the GM decided the excuses were legit or the person was a long standing member, it would be up to the discretion of the GM to allow them to still get the war prizes.

I understand the proposition and I don't like it as a GM or a player. The only thing at the GM's discretion should be setting a minimum score before a war starts. This selective reward/punishment concept can and will be abused.

[Sol Invictus]

When you have at least one GM scamming a member out of their account when they tried to trade through binding, which has happened, then the whole idea of GMs being able to arbitrarily and unilaterally withhold war rewards from players becomes such a clearly bad idea that it shouldn't even have to be discussed.

The demands should be simple.

War rewards should be better, because 11+ guilds pay good money for 11-100.
The kingdom should expand with new areas, per the poll that Elita posted.
And cheaters should be more aggressively pursued, since there are good, legit players.

All the other stuff is tertiary wishful thinking.

[smujica93]

I agree that whilst changing ratings might not have any influence at all and might not be the best step forward it is the only pressure we can deliver atm. Honestly all of this wouldnt be necessary if gree had people actually reading the forum and conversating with their best customers (which we represent) from time to time.

It saddens me how easy people shut down other peoples ideas but refrain from giving structural input themselves. Its a good thing people actually try to get stuff changed and for a movement that has existed for 2 days and had kind of a rough start id say give it a chance rather then shut it down and laugh instantly.

As for most top10 guilds not spending is not an option we have to find other ways to accomplish these things we want. I for one am happy mikie took the kead on contacting gree and i support him doing that. Please stop bragging about your superduper guild being so cool and having so many epics and gems and still arent complaining to gree. Just shows you dont give a crap about this games longterm survival. Go write a blog about hwo much more gems you spend than majestic and see who cares.

My thoughts exactly. Thank you.

[smujica93]

It is not a boycott of GREE to not spend money in K&D on Gems or advocate that others do the same. That said -- you can be banned from a forum for any reason or no reason.

That was my point. Of course GREE can ban people on forums for any reason and no reason. Just like doctors can refuse to see patients for any reason and no reason (except discrimination). What I was trying to say was that it seemed like that rule was tied into the forum rules sticky for exactly what people are advocating now: a gem boycott.

It is unlikely that GREE will ban people for no reason (even though they can), and it is also unlikely that a gem boycott will happen. However, it is still rather unsettling that even talking about gem boycotts (which would be used as a statement to facilitate the advancement of customer input) would likely result in bans.

Nonetheless, there have been no bans for gem boycott talks so far, so let's cross our fingers I guess.

[busteroaf]

When you have at least one GM scamming a member out of their account when they tried to trade through binding, which has happened, then the whole idea of GMs being able to arbitrarily and unilaterally withhold war rewards from players becomes such a clearly bad idea that it shouldn't even have to be discussed.

The demands should be simple.

War rewards should be better, because 11+ guilds pay good money for 11-100.
The kingdom should expand with new areas, per the poll that Elita posted.
And cheaters should be more aggressively pursued, since there are good, legit players.

All the other stuff is tertiary wishful thinking.

Hit the nail on the head with the GM topic. One spoils it for the whole bunch, and that one has already happened, so why would they then give GM's even more power to screw people over?

Better rewards, we all want. But stop saying people pay good money for 11-100. Guilds placing in top 100 is laughable at best, as many can do that through free energy alone. Sure, the rewards could be better, but those that do spend, aren't breaking any banks to place top 100, that is for sure. Yes, come back with the reasoning that "if the rewards were better, they would spend more..." Yeah, and I can also tell you that I'll do a better job if I get a raise first. That isn't how it works. You put in the work first, then get the rewards, not the other way around.

Kingdom expansion, new areas... my only true concern with this is how will they approach it. Obviously increasing the difficulty, and then the craftable rewards would have to be better than currently craftable 3* armors. But, how far do they go? Are we talking on par with epic bosses? 6 Month ago bosses? How much of a step forward will that cause for the stat creep? And to touch on the poll, it should have been plainly obvious that said poll Elita posted was just in response to people saying "can we consolidate things and get a poll going", nothing more. There was never speak of "whichever gets the most votes will be acted upon" yet people seem to think otherwise.

[Sol Invictus]

You could place top 100 on free energy, if every member participated very well AND top 100 guilds didn't get matched with top 20 guilds and their major gemspenders.

People in the top of the top don't seem to understand what it's like out on the fringe and beyond. My guild, for instance, has about 10 solid gemspenders who could throw down a few hundred gems per war. We can't compete with the top 20. We get matched up with them and we'll get maybe 10-20k points and no bonus. But if we gem matched with a comparable guild, we can post 30-80k or more.

Just because we spend a collective few hundred bucks, and not a few thousand, doesn't mean we shouldn't get better rewards. An EB+ we got for free two months ago is an insult.

[busteroaf]

So, you have 10 or so people that can throw down a couple hundred gems per war. Sounds to me like you have a 10 spenders and 30 f2p'ers. If you paired up with 30 other spenders, you easily could compete with top 20 and the rewards could be a little better for you. Or your guild isn't participating well, meeting minimums etc. That is a you/your guild problem, not a game problem. You need to find a better group of people more committed to winning. You can't do well against other top tier guilds, or when you get paired against top 20 guilds. Well guess what? You DON'T DESERVE TO BE TOP TIER THEN! You deserve to be where you are.

I have been on the fringe. I can remember multiple battles playing with different Rainbow guilds where we easily could have won vs. similar level guilds, but we were either outnumbered, or people simply gave up. I can remember battles with Centurions, Bad Touch, Kohona, Untouchables, DPA and many more. Did we deserve to win in those cases? Hell no. They played better, gemmed more, and our guild gave up. Could we have won? If people tried, yes. Did our guild save up more gems for strip battles and still end up top 10? Luckily, yes. Was I happy about the way we won. Honestly, no. God, if only you could see the Line chat logs of those wars, you would think I hated the guild I was in. If you have to depend on last minute strip battles to win, you don't deserve to win, period. I've always held that opinion. That is why I hate the fact you can still strip, and match up with whoever you want to as long as you know what you are doing. This was a big reason as to why I quit. Too few people had the mindset of "go hard or go home" and instead had the "lets wait until the end and get a friendly match and score big points." F that. Rigging the game makes it 100x less fun. If you can't win or hold your own against your peers, guess what, they aren't your peers, and you don't deserve to win.

You want to have a laid back, casual, non-gem committed guild, but then want better rewards based on a few people who decide to spend. You really can't do both. That is like in WoW, saying "sure, we'll have a progression raid group for current content, but you can just show up whenever, no biggie." It doesn't work. You need committed people, willing to invest the time and effort necessary to get the job done. 10 spenders and 30 f2p'ers aren't tipping the scale. Get over it.

Its like the person that said they score 500k points per war, but yet they weren't competing with DK, or on their level. If you, as a player, are spending enough to score 500k points, and your guild isn't top 10, you're in the wrong guild. Plain and simple. Getting 40 like minded people together, that is when you make waves. 40x500k = 20 mil. 20 mil = Top 5 anywhere, if not Top 2. That is a statement.

[09cobaltss]

Buster what better rewards would you get from top 25 than top 100? That is the whole point. And for someone who is retired from the game you still seem to care an awful lot about what happens

[09cobaltss]

See these rewards gree? Why spend when we can get better stuff for free. The EB+ armors are 350/150 better than war rewards

[leems]

doesnt look like youve been heard or even considered, 11+ is still outdated EB+, some boosts, and a single prince key o.O well i guess Ill sit back and watch you all let drop your wallets further solidifying why Gree shouldnt change a thing........for the 11+

[Sol Invictus]

Aaaannnnnddddd....we get Blackfrost as an 11+ reward AGAIN.
It wasn't good three or four months ago when they last used it as a war reward, and it's even worse now.

Herein lies the problem.

[Calinsimonico]

I support the 11+ Movement !

Guys with only 3 gemmers , full guild activity and good tactic our guild get verry clouse to top 25. Yes we was in top 50 and more that 1 time. But why to be so active ? For what to spend our money ? I will have same 4*+ gear even if will get in top 10000 , beat the lv 60 EB anyhaw , have same missions on map ... so , why to try so hard ? The difference betwin top10 and the rest is abbisal. Not even with heavy gemming from all 40 members of the guild will NOT be possible EVER to beat DK or other top 10 guids. Gear is far too strong and we can't match that. We NEED better rewards to give us a hope for better and a hand to get it. A MOTIVATION !
Why don't GREE put a rule like : The top 3 of a war can't get in top 50 of next war indiferent of points they do ? or at least out of top 25 !
Increase the % of chest for epics. 2 times i open 40 and get only 2*,3* crap (1 was on winter chest x5 WTF !!! ). Absolutly i will NOT open chests again until sistem change !!!
I'm not surprize many from the old vets leave this game.

[09cobaltss]

doesnt look like youve been heard or even considered, 11+ is still outdated EB+, some boosts, and a single prince key o.O well i guess Ill sit back and watch you all let drop your wallets further solidifying why Gree shouldnt change a thing........for the 11+ I'm going to assume since we were contacting them today it's a lil hard to expect anything today. I can tell by your replies to this thread that you are not in the group chat and therefore have no idea what we are trying to do

[The Pale Rider]

Hit the nail on the head with the GM topic. One spoils it for the whole bunch, and that one has already happened, so why would they then give GM's even more power to screw people over?

Better rewards, we all want. But stop saying people pay good money for 11-100. Guilds placing in top 100 is laughable at best, as many can do that through free energy alone. Sure, the rewards could be better, but those that do spend, aren't breaking any banks to place top 100, that is for sure. Yes, come back with the reasoning that "if the rewards were better, they would spend more..." Yeah, and I can also tell you that I'll do a better job if I get a raise first. That isn't how it works. You put in the work first, then get the rewards, not the other way around.

Kingdom expansion, new areas... my only true concern with this is how will they approach it. Obviously increasing the difficulty, and then the craftable rewards would have to be better than currently craftable 3* armors. But, how far do they go? Are we talking on par with epic bosses? 6 Month ago bosses? How much of a step forward will that cause for the stat creep? And to touch on the poll, it should have been plainly obvious that said poll Elita posted was just in response to people saying "can we consolidate things and get a poll going", nothing more. There was never speak of "whichever gets the most votes will be acted upon" yet people seem to think otherwise.

Not up to your usual reasoning standards. The analogy with a raise is terrible. If you told your workers whoever works the hardest this month gets a raise -- thats analogous. What we have now is a hope that people will work harder even though their pay gets worse every month and you go further and say, you shouldn't complain about it if you don't work harder first. Remind me never to work for you.

Inherent in a thread posted by a game admin or developer suggesting new content ideas is the suggestion that one or more might be implemented.

Agree the expansion is a black hole in terms of details.

[09cobaltss]

Maybe if more people asked to be in the group to see we are using multiple different tactics it would help the naysayers understand

[The Pale Rider]

Maybe if more people asked to be in the group to see we are using multiple different tactics it would help the naysayers understand

Ignore the naysayers, they exist but to say nay and offer nothing of value. They would only annoy you in your group chat.

[Slayer 1]

ROFLMAO!!! (*wiping away tears*)

Oh, this is PRECIOUS. All the 'Daddy loves ME best" ; "We're #1 and always will be", "I don't have an ego - YOU have an ego!". Endless humor.

We support:
* Better rewards for top 50 guilds in war (the incentive to Gree is what? You're going to spend out the Wazoo this war for something you already have)
* New map levels - (eh, if it's in the dev budget sure. Otherwise - nah. App lifecycle is too short)
* GM ability to kick leechers without reward. (Propensity for abuse is high. Yeah, I know what your oing to say - save it)
* Additional things to do for level 100+ (such as? Want a condo?)
* HC only to have declare ability. (GM's will be very upset)
* Additional LT quests to be added. (again with expensive development? Why? You already get wars. Be happy with that)
* Hacking prevention and stricter checks (Define 'hacking'. Trust me, we're PCI compliant - and that's all that *really* matters)

Watching the know-it-all-ego's tout their superiority in all things is also deliciously wonderful.

Here this, Minions:

- nothing will change - and you'll like it
- we'll offer the same crap as always and you'll spend a ransom for it, because God knows someone ELSE can't get it!
- nothing will change unless already planned for.


....end of line.

[The Pale Rider]

Slayer + naysayer = nayslayer

[infliction]

When you have at least one GM scamming a member out of their account when they tried to trade through binding, which has happened, then the whole idea of GMs being able to arbitrarily and unilaterally withhold war rewards from players becomes such a clearly bad idea that it shouldn't even have to be discussed.

You're putting the power in the leecher's hand, which is worse than putting it in the hands of the GM. At the very least, the GM has no personal profit motivation to deny rewards. If anything, it hurts him, because he'll lose valuable contributing members if he denies them their reward. The leecher, on the other hand, has everything to gain by leeching.

The difference between account trade scamming is that the person doing the scamming gets rewarded with a better account. What does the GM gain if he denies a reward? I get that there will still be a small number of GMs that abuse the power, but it'll be way better than leaving the power in the hands of leechers. For anyone who argues for leechers, I can only imagine why...

[infliction]

As for most top10 guilds not spending is not an option we have to find other ways to accomplish these things we want. I for one am happy mikie took the kead on contacting gree and i support him doing that. Please stop bragging about your superduper guild being so cool and having so many epics and gems and still arent complaining to gree. Just shows you dont give a crap about this games longterm survival. Go write a blog about hwo much more gems you spend than majestic and see who cares.

Ouch, you wound me. I'll get on that blog right away.

Just to recap, so that I present your points accurately on my blog:

You and your guild won't stop spending, even though you don't like the reward structure. For some unknown reason, it's impossible. Almost like a strong gravitational pull that takes your money into the hands of GREE.

You want change, but the most you'll do is rate the game a 1 star and prevent people from joining. You'll follow Mikie's lead, who in turn will do nothing but rate the game a 1 star.

You don't like it when people spend more, score more, and are cooler than you, unless they're quiet about it.

You think blogs are stupid and you like kangaroos. Did I miss anything?

My blog is going to go viral!

[busteroaf]

Buster what better rewards would you get from top 25 than top 100? That is the whole point. And for someone who is retired from the game you still seem to care an awful lot about what happens

I'm retired from spending. I still play casually, collect money, buy elemental bonuses for a guild full of non-active people who don't bother me on line, or whine because they didn't get good rewards from war because they're level 20 and don't know any better. Also, someone has to keep the forums in check.


Not up to your usual reasoning standards. The analogy with a raise is terrible. If you told your workers whoever works the hardest this month gets a raise -- thats analogous. What we have now is a hope that people will work harder even though their pay gets worse every month and you go further and say, you shouldn't complain about it if you don't work harder first. Remind me never to work for you.

Inherent in a thread posted by a game admin or developer suggesting new content ideas is the suggestion that one or more might be implemented.

Agree the expansion is a black hole in terms of details.

How is my job analogy terrible? What the 11+ is asking for is EXACTLY like asking for a raise before doing the work. You want them to pony up better rewards before spending money on it. Sol Invictus's signature shows exactly that. "No more gems until War rewards are worth it" = no extra work until I get a raise that I feel warrants extra work. You want the raise before you do extra.

The point is, there isn't a big vast group fighting for Top 10. Those who are in the running for it every war are pretty well known by the first half of day 1. Everyone else craps out, and quits playing. If you had more people fighting for top 10, you'd have a solid leg to stand on in the fight to say "we all spend money and get crap rewards." But that isn't the case. Usually its 11 or 12 guilds fighting for top 10. Those extra 2 who don't get the rewards are the only ones who should be complaining. The ones that give up and crap out... yeah, you REALLY deserve better rewards for deciding top 10 is out of reach, but you can now coast to Top 25 and deserve something for it.

Yeah, those are the people who decides "this is too hard, I don't want to do any extra work, but I still want a raise" while my other staff are increasing sales and selling our featured product like its going out of style. I reward the people who do a good job. They get the schedule they want, the sections they want, the closing shifts. Those who rise and go above and beyond and do the things I ask without me even having to ask. They do the work and get the rewards. And I continue to reward them. The people that give up mid-month/contest? They don't get anything except being one step closer to the chopping block. And I never said anything about the pay getting worse. Maybe you're in a job where you get paid less and less for the same work, but mine sure isn't.

You sir are the one who has the bad analogy.

Also, ASSUMING that just because there is a poll in a random thread suggesting new ideas by a developer or mod means that there will be said "winner" implemented, is ASSUMING. The poll was created as a way to consolidate the suggestions into the more popular, and letting people vote on which one was most important to them. If the poll included "1000 free gems every month" and that was the winner, would you still expect them to include it? I know you have better reasoning skills than to assume it was a guaranteed implementation of one or more items. It was a wishing thread at best.

[Sol Invictus]

Your analogy is backwards, homie. Also, we don't need an analogy, all we need is reality.

As to your analogy, it would be accurate to say that GREE expects payment before doing the work. We would be refusing to pay until something of value is provided. You don't get paid on Monday. You get paid on Friday.

We are the employer. GREE is the employee. Check yourself, silly.



But we don't need an analogy. The reality is that GREE is in the business of selling games and we are in the business of buying them. Don't give me this load of crap about us not wanting to work for it, as if GREE is doing us some kind of favor by making the top 10 rewards good and any other reward bad.

You're such an experienced businessman, you oughta know how free enterprise works.

It ain't "you gotta prove you're good enough to earn the product I want to sell."

What a dumb analogy. Come on.
Reality is that market forces send signals to businesses on what to do and what not to do.

We send a signal saying "We're OK paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and GREE will keep them coming.

We send a signal saying "We are not paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and, if they're smart, they'll stop doing that.

[bosskiller]

I'm retired from spending. I still play casually, collect money, buy elemental bonuses for a guild full of non-active people who don't bother me on line, or whine because they didn't get good rewards from war because they're level 20 and don't know any better. Also, someone has to keep the forums in check.



How is my job analogy terrible? What the 11+ is asking for is EXACTLY like asking for a raise before doing the work. You want them to pony up better rewards before spending money on it. Sol Invictus's signature shows exactly that. "No more gems until War rewards are worth it" = no extra work until I get a raise that I feel warrants extra work. You want the raise before you do extra.

The point is, there isn't a big vast group fighting for Top 10. Those who are in the running for it every war are pretty well known by the first half of day 1. Everyone else craps out, and quits playing. If you had more people fighting for top 10, you'd have a solid leg to stand on in the fight to say "we all spend money and get crap rewards." But that isn't the case. Usually its 11 or 12 guilds fighting for top 10. Those extra 2 who don't get the rewards are the only ones who should be complaining. The ones that give up and crap out... yeah, you REALLY deserve better rewards for deciding top 10 is out of reach, but you can now coast to Top 25 and deserve something for it.

Yeah, those are the people who decides "this is too hard, I don't want to do any extra work, but I still want a raise" while my other staff are increasing sales and selling our featured product like its going out of style. I reward the people who do a good job. They get the schedule they want, the sections they want, the closing shifts. Those who rise and go above and beyond and do the things I ask without me even having to ask. They do the work and get the rewards. And I continue to reward them. The people that give up mid-month/contest? They don't get anything except being one step closer to the chopping block. And I never said anything about the pay getting worse. Maybe you're in a job where you get paid less and less for the same work, but mine sure isn't.

You sir are the one who has the bad analogy.

Also, ASSUMING that just because there is a poll in a random thread suggesting new ideas by a developer or mod means that there will be said "winner" implemented, is ASSUMING. The poll was created as a way to consolidate the suggestions into the more popular, and letting people vote on which one was most important to them. If the poll included "1000 free gems every month" and that was the winner, would you still expect them to include it? I know you have better reasoning skills than to assume it was a guaranteed implementation of one or more items. It was a wishing thread at best.

All your points are true except one thing: if those guilds spend more for these rewards, GREE will not change them. In real life, yes, you do woek and get rewarded. But in the game, it may not make a difference regardless. May as well save your money.

[busteroaf]

Your analogy is backwards, homie. Also, we don't need an analogy, all we need is reality.

As to your analogy, it would be accurate to say that GREE expects payment before doing the work. We would be refusing to pay until something of value is provided. You don't get paid on Monday. You get paid on Friday.

We are the employer. GREE is the employee. Check yourself, silly.

...

Reality is that market forces send signals to businesses on what to do and what not to do.

We send a signal saying "We're OK paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and GREE will keep them coming.

We send a signal saying "We are not paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and, if they're smart, they'll stop doing that.

No, MY analogy is not backwards. You want something BEFORE doing anything for it. As to Gree being the employee and us being the employer. Well, they sure do seem to be the ones running the show, so they have the ability to say "We want a raise before putting out the better rewards." You know, more people actually spending money, and they'd make it worthwhile. If I can free energy my way to 2nd tier rewards, why wouldn't I? Why would I pay money when I can get it for free? The inmates are clearly running the asylum in this case. You expect Gree to just say "hey, lets give away all these great rewards and then they'll come running, and hopefully pay. Clearly, you're being horrible bosses and continuing to let your employees get away with whatever they want.

Blah blah... to your final statements:

Of the last 2 examples, you're doing the first. Maybe not YOU specifically, you big bad non-gem buying trailblazer you... but your 11+ movement can't seem to get it through their heads to do the second as a whole, so you WILL CONTINUE to get EB+ as rewards, because you don't have the balls to make a statement with your wallets. All you have now is your mouths. And I'm not hearing a whole lot being done. Your market forces are non-existent.

Yes, the whole "spend more, get more" idea is a grand hope of mine, and mine alone apparently, but things we know so far: people aren't STOPPING spending, and they haven't changed anything, so who is to know if it will work either way? Seriously try to gather people to NOT spend. Make yourselves heard. What is the worst that can happen? A few people don't get their war epics, and you'll see if all those other magic "big spenders" in the top 100 that spend SOOOO much money (sarcasm), will actually step up to replace you in gems spent, points, etc. You'll figure out a lot more about the game and its players by nutting up and NOT spending for a war or two that just talking about wanting change. Am I wrong?

[Sol Invictus]

http://i.minus.com/iLBs9uhnBZAoe.jpg




No, MY analogy is not backwards. You want something BEFORE doing anything for it.

Guilds get rewards after war. Not before.

You are wrong. I am right.
You're grasping at straws. Stop shilling for GREE.

[hoticehunter]

* HC only to have declare ability. (GM's will be very upset)

Let's be fair here, it's pretty clear he means that only officers, HC and up, should be able to declare. Which is a completely valid request.

[mikieblue]

You're putting the power in the leecher's hand, which is worse than putting it in the hands of the GM. At the very least, the GM has no personal profit motivation to deny rewards. If anything, it hurts him, because he'll lose valuable contributing members if he denies them their reward. The leecher, on the other hand, has everything to gain by leeching.

The difference between account trade scamming is that the person doing the scamming gets rewarded with a better account. What does the GM gain if he denies a reward? I get that there will still be a small number of GMs that abuse the power, but it'll be way better than leaving the power in the hands of leechers. For anyone who argues for leechers, I can only imagine why...

Wow.. I read this and almost fell off my chair... Sensible words and exactly why this was on the list.

However in your following post you seem to think that I and other who support are willing to do nothing... This is certainly not the case. We simply refuse to take a course of action that we feel unnecessary.... Or that would be detremental to a company who's product we use constantly...

Clearly you read my 2nd post as you refer to snippets but you seem to misunderstand the lovely bits I put in capitals just to ensure that you were able to comprehend without having to overly concern yourself with content... (Just assuming from the way you approach the game that this would be for the best for you to understand)

I made it pretty clear that this was at least going to remain respectable and offer GREE a descent and fair way to listen to its customers ideas and by our justified change of ratings a small gesture simply to show just how many unhappy long term spenders feel strongly enough as GREE customers to do thier little part. Of course we are aware that what follows is down to GREE themselves. They could EASILY make many people happy and get some spending again and others spending more on their product by introducing some small changes to the current set up in what is one of their most popular revenue streams..

Sales through Services provided is clearly something that GREE need to give some focus, nobody doubts that but your blind assumption that companies (any company) don't want to provide the best overall product available making their customers happy and generating further revenue for doing that is laughable. I've worked at a high level of business through a variety of channels in a multinational corporation for a long time. One thing always rings true...

We want to offer the best product on the market in our chosen area.
We want our customers to be happy with the service and/ or products we provide and share within thier circles
We want to develop a well known trusted brand with a positive reputation..
We want to make as much money as possible from said product..

It's a tried and tested method that's worked since the development of free markets.

Why anyone would think gree to be any different is beyond me! I'm glad many of you are simply able to laugh these jokers trying to put a negative spin on what we're doing.

I mean flick through a few posts... It'll never work and you're dumb for trying or supporting... but this would be good...
Or nobody will ever listen unless you resort to completely ruining the game or boycotting the revenue reducing justification for further spending on said revenue stream... But if it does work... I'd like to see it done this way...

We'll stick to our morals and we will stick together and hopefully soon enough GREE will support those of us here for the right reasons... I'm still trying to make contact at a reasonable level so let's not give up hope guys! I'll feedback as and when I get anything of relevance :) for now just ignore the idiots. Stick to what we planned & let's see what happens from there...

Thanks,

Mikie

[toogoodformyowngood]

Increase the chance of getting an Epic from chests. 1% is not acceptable.

lol. if you increase it any higher too many ppl will start getting epics. the game is already flooded with epics.whats the point of having an epic if everyone has epics? no advantage.

[iH8tBANNEDftw]

Everyone should add some comedy to there posts so it is fun to read.

[09cobaltss]

Very well put Mikie. It's seems some people think the only thing we are doing is down rating in play store and then whining on the forum. This is by no means the case. All of us that play this game want the same basic things to be added. We all love the game and would like to see it last longer and continue to improve. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that

[PhoenixZee]

Very well put Mikie. It's seems some people think the only thing we are doing is down rating in play store and then whining on the forum. This is by no means the case. All of us that play this game want the same basic things to be added. We all love the game and would like to see it last longer and continue to improve. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that

For the record then, because I stand with you and I've sided with both ya'll and the other guy, even though he did deride me...but I'm not sure what exactly ya'll are doing other than downrating and coming to the forums? Mikie, though I support him in Majestic and respect his leadership in that last war...has said he isn't supporting boycotting or not spending, so what else is there?

Help me and the others understand. I'm supporting the overall goals and the movement, but I'm the type that thinks beating your chest is pointless without meaningful action, and I just don't see an occasional 1-star buried amidst a sea of good reviews (at most recent check) doing much good.

Case in point; Mikie still trying to make contact with someone at a level able to do anything. I'd love if it he made contact with someone who is willing to speak for the company, but as someone whose watched this happen in a few other cell games I became overly invested in...it's not going to happen. I've seen only ONE company that brought out a community relations person to speak ongoing with the community as a result.

[Cali-Boy916]

What a waste, the idea sounds good about the "movement" but all here on the forum played the game long enough to know that greed doesn't care what you are demanding. Also, people will still buy gems so no point in starting this. Eh id you guys succeed then that would be awesome but 10 times out of 10 greed won't change anything

[Dianish]

Id love to see top 100 guilds use free energy only. From what I hear a line chat has already been started gms of all top 99 guilds talk it out.

Just editted it due to information which i wasnt aware off before i retired as 2nd in command.

[Sol Invictus]

Conquering Knights?
Master Shake was one of the first people I brought into the room, I thought.

If your GM is not in there, it's not because s/he wasn't invited or isn't welcome. I didn't invite GMs. I just found anyone I could get a hold of from each guild. Could be a GM. Could be a Commander. I have no idea.

[Dianish]

Conquering Knights?
Master Shake was one of the first people I brought into the room, I thought.

If your GM is not in there, it's not because s/he wasn't invited or isn't welcome. I didn't invite GMs. I just found anyone I could get a hold of from each guild. Could be a GM. Could be a Commander. I have no idea.

The information didnt cross my attention. I was about to edit topic. Cheers :)

[bosskiller]

Almost all top 100? Wow. Thats an achievement right there, haha!

[busteroaf]

Guilds get rewards after war. Not before.

You are wrong. I am right.
You're grasping at straws. Stop shilling for GREE.

Cute image. How long did you work on that? I'm glad you spend so much time on your responses to me. It shows you continue to be bothered so much that you have to respond.

Yes guilds get rewards AFTER war. I can bold, italicize, and underline for more emphasis. That is a true story. I'll say it again and agree with you. Guilds get rewards after the war. People still need to place in wars to receive their rewards. Tell me something I don't know.

But prior to your new signature, you said you weren't going to spend gems until the rewards are better. They release what the rewards are BEFORE war starts. Otherwise, how will you know what you are fighting for, and what you are spending gems on? Do you understand what that means? Do you even understand what you were saying yourself? Are you seriously willing to fight in a war where the rewards are unknown? Are you expecting them to reward you based purely on gems spent? And I'm the one grasping at straws? You can't understand the logic of what you said yourself? I'm trying not to call people names, but you sound like an idiot.

You want Gree to pony up better rewards before you will decide to spend. There is no other way around this. You want to know the raise is there before you do the work. Stop playing the idiot card. Please, someone else tell me how my logic is wrong and Sol's is correct.

Please, anyone?

[firefly333]

What a waste, the idea sounds good about the "movement" but all here on the forum played the game long enough to know that greed doesn't care what you are demanding. Also, people will still buy gems so no point in starting this. Eh id you guys succeed then that would be awesome but 10 times out of 10 greed won't change anything

No point in starting "this"?

We are trying first for peacefull contact with Gree. Mikie is still trying, and leaving messages and being a pest and pushing that way. Rome was not built in a day.

No one has agreed to a gem boycott btw, no matter how much people here act like that is the plan of action, it never was and wouldn't be supported as a way to get more content. Those on this foroum who keep posting that there will never be a gem boycott therefore this is all a waste of time...either help or quit complaining.

DK believes hurting gree will only hurt the game. ..but we do want more content, but hope there is a peacefull way.

Reaching out to Gree by phone for instance. Wise One and Elita here on the forum must be aware of the posts and could take back our message to Gree.

So many defeatists and negative people post on this forum.

[Sol Invictus]

you continue to be bothered so much that you have to respond.


responds

lololol

I know how to use Photoshop. Google search for images took one minute. Composition took another five. Don't flatter yourself.

Your own analogy is falling apart the more you talk about it. Before, it was "we want to be paid before we do the work" but now "you wouldn't fight without knowing the rewards, would you?"

Come on, bro! Just give it up! This is too easy.
If you have so much time to spend in forums of a game you more-or-less stopped playing and your only purpose right now is to naysay about an issue you don't support...may I suggest a hobby? Do you want me to send you a jigsaw puzzle of one of Norman Rockwell's famous magazine cover illustrations?

[busteroaf]

For the record then, because I stand with you and I've sided with both ya'll and the other guy, even though he did deride me...but I'm not sure what exactly ya'll are doing other than downrating and coming to the forums? Mikie, though I support him in Majestic and respect his leadership in that last war...has said he isn't supporting boycotting or not spending, so what else is there?

Help me and the others understand. I'm supporting the overall goals and the movement, but I'm the type that thinks beating your chest is pointless without meaningful action, and I just don't see an occasional 1-star buried amidst a sea of good reviews (at most recent check) doing much good.

Case in point; Mikie still trying to make contact with someone at a level able to do anything. I'd love if it he made contact with someone who is willing to speak for the company, but as someone whose watched this happen in a few other cell games I became overly invested in...it's not going to happen. I've seen only ONE company that brought out a community relations person to speak ongoing with the community as a result.


No point in starting "this"?

We are trying first for peacefull contact with Gree. Mikie is still trying, and leaving messages and being a pest and pushing that way. Rome was not built in a day.

No one has agreed to a gem boycott btw, no matter how much people here act like that is the plan of action, it never was and wouldn't be supported as a way to get more content. Those on this foroum who keep posting that there will never be a gem boycott therefore this is all a waste of time...either help or quit complaining.

DK believes hurting gree will only hurt the game. ..but we do want more content, but hope there is a peacefull way.

Reaching out to Gree by phone for instance. Wise One and Elita here on the forum must be aware of the posts and could take back our message to Gree.

So many defeatists and negative people post on this forum.

Well, this is the mystery. You've got banners, and people posting on the forums saying they support the movement. Someone is trying to contact Gree peacefully. And?...

Since not everyone can be in the chat room... what else is there? Is there any success? Is it just one person so far? Is it multiple people? Calling multiple times? Sending multiple of the same message through tickets and email? We don't know. All we've heard is forums, and one person trying to contact Gree. Do you see where people would question the movement? Maybe updates would slow the negative people.

[busteroaf]

lololol

I know how to use Photoshop. Google search for images took one minute. Composition took another five. Don't flatter yourself.

Your own analogy is falling apart the more you talk about it. Before, it was "we want to be paid before we do the work" but now "you wouldn't fight without knowing the rewards, would you?"

Come on, bro! Just give it up! This is too easy.
If you have so much time to spend in forums of a game you more-or-less stopped playing and your only purpose right now is to naysay about an issue you don't support...may I suggest a hobby? Do you want me to send you a jigsaw puzzle of one of Norman Rockwell's famous magazine cover illustrations?

Mock my responses yet you still can't actually RESPOND to my questions. You sound just like Mark. Talking in circles and never being able to back up your own talk.

And I don't need to reference a job situation compared to the war reward situation anymore. I've proven my point. You can't back up your "better analogy" so you resort to lame, incorrect images that have nothing to do with my original point.

[Sol Invictus]

I don't need to reference a job situation compared to the war reward situation anymore.

"Don't need" = "can't", because it failed.

Thanks for conceding defeat.

Night.

[busteroaf]

"Don't need" = "can't", because it failed.

Thanks for conceding defeat.

Night.

Still have yet to backup your own posts with a legit response = coward.

And if you can show how "asking for a raise before doing the work" is not the same as "wanting better rewards before spending gems on wars"... then I will concede. See if you can understand your own statements for once.

[Sol Invictus]

How about this one? This look good to you? I figured you'd like this one...mostly because of the half-exposed backside on the boy.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-SATURDAY-EVENING-POST-JIGSAW-PUZZLE-AT-THE-DOCTOR-NORMAN-ROCKWELL-/291055150857

http://www.letshavefunwithenglish.com/projects/country_film/images/before_the_shot.jpg


Wanna PM me your address so I can send it out to you ASAP?

It's 1,000 pieces, so I figure it'll take you at least two weeks.

[busteroaf]

Still ducking.

Keep posting, and I'll continue to show you how week your 11+ movement is.

Oh, and keep it up and you'll be known as Mark Jr. The guy that just posts useless nonsense talking in circles and makes his "movement" regret he was ever affiliated with it. Good job MJ.

Post a solid argument back, that is all. You can't do it, can you?

[Sol Invictus]

Just because someone only spends $100 in a 3-day war and not $300, it does not follow that the reward for doing so should be relatively useless.

Common sense dictates that rewards should be commensurate with placement. After #10, rewards, for all practical purposes, drop to the floor in terms of value.

Saying that guilds could place in the top X without spending a dime is irrelevant, as effort and coordination have their own inherent value in a team competition.

Saying someone who spends $X or scores X should just find a better guild if they want better rewards is not only a non sequitur, but also impractical since there is only a finite number of players capable of taking the top ten prize and also because of the entrenched advantage consistent top ten guilds have over everyone else.

Me, with my free EB+s or, at best, recently fuseable Epics, will not be able to score as many points on you, with your Epics from the last three wars perhaps even if I outspend you.

Here is an analogy for you, if you're familiar with American football.

#1 is like Super Bowl champions.
#2-10 are like Super Bowl losers. They didn't take home the big prize, but they were still champions of their conference.
#11-100 are like teams who lost the conference title game, but they were still champions of their division.

Rewards should be commensurate with performance regardless of whether or not you personally believe that #11+ didn't spend enough. It's a pretty simple concept that enjoys mass appeal and adoption across a multitude of competitive events.

[firefly333]

Just because someone only spends $100 in a 3-day war and not $300, it does not follow that the reward for doing so should be relatively useless.

Common sense dictates that rewards should be commensurate with placement. After #10, rewards, for all practical purposes, drop to the floor in terms of value.

I support this and think Gree would benefit because more would buy gems to place in top say 50 or 100 if the rewards were worth competing for.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

People who sent lengthy comments are bashing ideas. If you have an idea speak up. Saying you've seen it happen in other app games gives you experience. You should have more ideas then the rest of us yet I see bashing or as firefly said negative feedback.

As far as 11+ rewards go if your putting in the GAME TIME 36 hours of checking knights and dragons during gw you shoukd get something better then an outdated plus version chest. Even if its like a beast key special chest for higher chance for epics.

I still believe gree should make you pay a 10 dollar fee to enter gw with UNLIMITED ENERGY. Would let everyone have a shot at top ten and no more backing down in fights. As far as stat bonuses you pay you get the bonus for eb help on element bonus.

Ive suggested such things to gree through email only to get a message saying ty for your feedback. Thats was over 5 months ago.

[busteroaf]

Just because someone only spends $100 in a 3-day war and not $300, it does not follow that the reward for doing so should be relatively useless.

Common sense dictates that rewards should be commensurate with placement. After #10, rewards, for all practical purposes, drop to the floor in terms of value.

Saying that guilds could place in the top X without spending a dime is irrelevant, as effort and coordination have their own inherent value in a team competition.

Saying someone who spends $X or scores X should just find a better guild if they want better rewards is not only a non sequitur, but also impractical since there is only a finite number of players capable of taking the top ten prize and also because of the entrenched advantage consistent top ten guilds have over everyone else.

Me, with my free EB+s or, at best, recently fuseable Epics, will not be able to score as many points on you, with your Epics from the last three wars perhaps even if I outspend you.

Here is an analogy for you, if you're familiar with American football.

#1 is like Super Bowl champions.
#2-10 are like Super Bowl losers. They didn't take home the big prize, but they were still champions of their conference.
#11-100 are like teams who lost the conference title game, but they were still champions of their division.

Rewards should be commensurate with performance regardless of whether or not you personally believe that #11+ didn't spend enough. It's a pretty simple concept that enjoys mass appeal and adoption across a multitude of competitive events.

So, is GUILD War an individual effort or a GUILD effort? Unfortunately, when you participate in GUILD war... you are playing a team sport. If you don't want to admit that if you and the 9 others who spend money in war aren't being held back by the other 30 that don't, aka the rest of your TEAM, that is your problem. You also assume that the top 10 guilds are constantly full with no way to get into them. There is always flux between members. Guilds are always dropping and adding more people. The Top 10 is not set in stone. Have you ever looked at guild pages post war? Wonder why they drop down in members? People coming and going. Many stepping in for war, and nothing else. The impracticality of having finite space is again, a you problem. You likely could get into a top 10 guild if you wanted. You just don't.

As we've seen MANY times over, people who have never been in the top 10, still manage to find a way in. And with the ability to pre-arrange matches, get strip battles, and the ability to get 2 mil points in a single matchup, it doesn't matter what armor you have. Only gemming capability. Someone with recent epics may have an advantage in a blind, free energy only battle, but if you have the gems and can outspend anyone, playing smart, you can and should outscore the next guy. Me. Whoever.

If you want guild rewards to be commensurate with performance... this is again where the GUILD needs to step up. If you are okay with carrying a guild, so be it. What would you like for it? A courtesy epic? How about a Moontide. Has it been surpassed by EB's yet? What about a Blazebourne? A new fancy ~EB legendary? Does your guild then deserve an epic since they got carried? Are they getting less of a reward because you did more? The only way this will happen is if they make a reward system similar to EB and Arena rewards where as you reach a certain point tier, your individual prizes go up. Would that make it fair? This way, individual effort IS rewarded. Or do you still want your guild as a whole to benefit from a few people doing work?

Also, if you really want to compare the NFL Playoffs and the Superbowl to Guild War... a more accurate comparison is as follows:

#1 = Superbowl Champ
#2-and down Everyone else.

No one gives a rip about who lost, except for the sportscasters and immediate team fans because it gives them something to talk about for the next few months before the season starts again. Yeah, there were still divisional champs, conference champs etc. But no one interviews them to say "you just won the NFC North... what are you doing now?" "Uh... getting ready for the playoffs, Jim." Also, what extra prizes do conference champs get? Are the bonuses similar to winning the Superbowl? I think not. Do you follow?

Or, if you do a simple Google search: The Seahawks players got an extra 96k for their SB win. The Broncos got 46k for their loss. Conference champs: 20k. So from your example, #1 getting 96k, your 11-100 teams should all get rewards that are around 20% of what #1 gets. What is 20% of a new epic? And are these teams all putting in 20% of the revenue that the top teams are? Top 11-15 maybe. Top 25? Doubtful. Top 100? VERY unlikely. This is why they don't give out great prizes for guilds all the way down to 100.

[Kangaroeland]

Well, this is the mystery. You've got banners, and people posting on the forums saying they support the movement. Someone is trying to contact Gree peacefully. And?...

Since not everyone can be in the chat room... what else is there? Is there any success? Is it just one person so far? Is it multiple people? Calling multiple times? Sending multiple of the same message through tickets and email? We don't know. All we've heard is forums, and one person trying to contact Gree. Do you see where people would question the movement? Maybe updates would slow the negative people.

I understand your concerns witht his movement but would it hurt to be a little less skeptical and join the line group? By the way you are asking stuff we didnt do yet and might be worth looking at so thanks ;)

[BoP Puddy]

Too long have we had to police this game ourselves with very little reward, gree won't punish the cheaters and doesn't reward long term players

[Sol Invictus]

bla bla

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/100/315/iTAmc.GIF

[AoD Koozik]

I think the 11+ mouvement is great but its getting confusing to follow it here with all the arguing. If the mouvement could have a web page with a simple hyperlink, i could add it to my guild description and get more people to join in because its a really small part of the KnD players who read this forum.

My guild is on iOS and its called Acolytes of Darigaaz.

Its time for some changes in this game and the only way were gonna have it is if everyone contribute.

http://knights-and-dragons.wikia.com/wiki/11%2B_mouvement?redirect=no

[King juju]

I think the 11+ mouvement is great but its getting confusing to follow it here with all the arguing. If the mouvement could have a web page with a simple hyperlink, i could add it to my guild description and get more people to join in because its a really small part of the KnD players who read this forum.

My guild is on iOS and its called Acolytes of Darigaaz.

Its time for some changes in this game and the only way were gonna have it is if everyone contribute.

http://knights-and-dragons.wikia.com/wiki/11%2B_mouvement?redirect=no

Only way it works is if EVERY gree game work together. It's a hopeless pointless battle.
Practical people understand. ..you choose to spend that money...gree lives off our addiction. Just stop spending and you don't have to worry about voicing anything..lol

[bosskiller]

Why do we have so many pessimists on this forum??

[09cobaltss]

If you would like to be added to the line chat search: Benjaminqmob
Send me a message what guild you are from and mention 11+ I get 3465 random PMs a day so I don't want to just ignore someone that wants to help

[infliction]

Lol, this is hilarious.

Nobody disagrees that the reward structure is lame and should be updated. I'm not sure 50th place guilds should get a decent reward, but the exact details aren't relevant.

The movement itself is the problem. Instead of using the power in their hands (money), they make excuses about how it's impossible not to spend, then whine and rate the game a 1.

Let me give you a real life example of what your movement looks like.

- You are 425 pounds and want to lose weight.
- You go to MacDonald's and order yourself 3 super-sized meals.
- You complain to head office that there are too many calories in the meal and your weight loss program is being obstructed.
- You fill out the satisfaction survey and mail it in with the lowest ratings possible. You stand outside the doors of Macdonalds telling all the patrons that the food is unhealthy and not to eat in there, while holding a Big Mac and super-sized fries in your hand.
- You continue to demand change, but eat every meal there.
- Your peers tell you to stop eating there, but you tell them it's impossible (due to unknown reasons).
- You bring all your friends there and eat there together. You and your friends increase their profitability by 10% in the following quarter, but still stand outside the doors telling everyone not to eat there (Big Mac still in hand).
- When someone tries to explain to you that you have the power to stop this madness, you disregard it as "hate" and refuse to believe there is any other way to resolve the issue. Your way is the only way and it makes perfect sense (Big Mac still in hand).

[King juju]

Lol, this is hilarious.

Nobody disagrees that the reward structure is lame and should be updated. I'm not sure 50th place guilds should get a decent reward, but the exact details aren't relevant.

The movement itself is the problem. Instead of using the power in their hands (money), they make excuses about how it's impossible not to spend, then whine and rate the game a 1.

Let me give you a real life example of what your movement looks like.

- You are 425 pounds and want to lose weight.
- You go to MacDonald's and order yourself 3 super-sized meals.
- You complain to head office that there are too many calories in the meal and your weight loss program is being obstructed.
- You fill out the satisfaction survey and mail it in with the lowest ratings possible. You stand outside the doors of Macdonalds telling all the patrons that the food is unhealthy and not to eat in there, while holding a Big Mac and super-sized fries in your hand.
- You continue to demand change, but eat every meal there.
- Your peers tell you to stop eating there, but you tell them it's impossible (due to unknown reasons).
- You bring all your friends there and eat there together. You and your friends increase their profitability by 10% in the following quarter, but still stand outside the doors telling everyone not to eat there (Big Mac still in hand).
- When someone tries to explain to you that you have the power to stop this madness, you disregard it as "hate" and refuse to believe there is any other way to resolve the issue. Your way is the only way and it makes perfect sense (Big Mac still in hand).

And he hits the nail on the head.

[King juju]

Why do we have so many pessimists on this forum??

Common sense is not very common at all on these forums. Read what the guy above wrote. You can't expect them to change if spending doesn't change...it's idiotic. But addiction clouds the mind...let me guess you can stop if you want to? But you choose not to? Stop spending and seek help if you want to do something.

[09cobaltss]

Lol, this is hilarious.

Nobody disagrees that the reward structure is lame and should be updated. I'm not sure 50th place guilds should get a decent reward, but the exact details aren't relevant.

The movement itself is the problem. Instead of using the power in their hands (money), they make excuses about how it's impossible not to spend, then whine and rate the game a 1.

Let me give you a real life example of what your movement looks like.

- You are 425 pounds and want to lose weight.
- You go to MacDonald's and order yourself 3 super-sized meals.
- You complain to head office that there are too many calories in the meal and your weight loss program is being obstructed.
- You fill out the satisfaction survey and mail it in with the lowest ratings possible. You stand outside the doors of Macdonalds telling all the patrons that the food is unhealthy and not to eat in there, while holding a Big Mac and super-sized fries in your hand.
- You continue to demand change, but eat every meal there.
- Your peers tell you to stop eating there, but you tell them it's impossible (due to unknown reasons).
- You bring all your friends there and eat there together. You and your friends increase their profitability by 10% in the following quarter, but still stand outside the doors telling everyone not to eat there (Big Mac still in hand).
- When someone tries to explain to you that you have the power to stop this madness, you disregard it as "hate" and refuse to believe there is any other way to resolve the issue. Your way is the only way and it makes perfect sense (Big Mac still in hand). guess you just keep missing the fact that it's not just rate the game a 1*. It's more than that. But I guess keep trolling and pushing thread to top. I assume that's why you keep responding. You want to see change but are just to lazy to get involved. Probably because you are 425lbs and eat mc donalds every meal.

[King juju]

guess you just keep missing the fact that it's not just rate the game a 1*. It's more than that. But I guess keep trolling and pushing thread to top. I assume that's why you keep responding. You want to see change but are just to lazy to get involved. Probably because you are 425lbs and eat mc donalds every meal.
Did you even read his post before responding with accusations? And you expect people to fight for a cause that you can't defend with logic? Oh ok.

[09cobaltss]

Yes I read it. That's why I said he wasn't using logic. Neither of you know what is going on because you refuse to join chat or ask to join

[09cobaltss]

And apparently you didn't read my post which stated it is more than just Google play reviews. So keep trolling and pushing to the top

[infliction]

Yes I read it. That's why I said he wasn't using logic. Neither of you know what is going on because you refuse to join chat or ask to join

We understand that the single point of leverage that actually exists (money) is not being used. Paying for something that you believe is a 1 star product does not make sense in the real world. It only makes sense in the 11+ movement.

Keep preaching the 11+ movement with your big mac in hand brother!

[09cobaltss]

We understand that the single point of leverage that actually exists (money) is not being used. Paying for something that you believe is a 1 star product does not make sense in the real world. It only makes sense in the 11+ movement.

Keep preaching the 11+ movement with your big mac in hand brother! and once again you prove you have no clue. There are rules to what can be discussed on a forum. Which is why other means aren't discussed

[infliction]

and once again you prove you have no clue. There are rules to what can be discussed on a forum. Which is why other means aren't discussed

Ok, if you're quietly suggesting that a gem boycott is taking place in the 11+ movement and you guys are serious about it, then I applaud you. Finally you get it. If that's not what you're suggesting, then keep chomping at the Big Mac.

[infliction]

and once again you prove you have no clue. There are rules to what can be discussed on a forum. Which is why other means aren't discussed

And you can keep throwing out insults, but at the end of the day, it's you guys who stated that doing a gem boycott was "impossible". Sorry if I interpreted that as not possible or out of the realm of possibility. Clearly I have no clue what "impossible" means.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

People who sent lengthy comments are bashing ideas. If you have an idea speak up. Saying you've seen it happen in other app games gives you experience. You should have more ideas then the rest of us yet I see bashing or as firefly said negative feedback.

As far as 11+ rewards go if your putting in the GAME TIME 36 hours of checking knights and dragons during gw you shoukd get something better then an outdated plus version chest. Even if its like a beast key special chest for higher chance for epics.

I still believe gree should make you pay a 10 dollar fee to enter gw with UNLIMITED ENERGY. Would let everyone have a shot at top ten and no more backing down in fights. As far as stat bonuses you pay you get the bonus for eb help on element bonus.

Ive suggested such things to gree through email only to get a message saying ty for your feedback. Thats was over 5 months ago.

Again i was brainstorming hoping it might spark other ideas that would be fun to integrate into knd.
Im not saying I have the answer for a guaranteed fix to make knd fun for everyone. Im giving a suggested that would make the gamers more happy. Lets face it knd is 60% gems 30% line chat 20% gaming. I dont know your thoughts but I'd prefer gaming be in the 60% range.

The main goal the 11+ movement is trying to achieve is to make knd fun for nonspenders who are putting in the hours. At the same time we are asking for easy programming changes to make the game more fair.

Most game developers just want there game to be played of course for the money. Knd has a fan base playing there game and they basically are saying to me that I cant be there friend unless I pay them.....

[Sent]

People who sent lengthy comments are bashing ideas. If you have an idea speak up. Saying you've seen it happen in other app games gives you experience. You should have more ideas then the rest of us yet I see bashing or as firefly said negative feedback.

As far as 11+ rewards go if your putting in the GAME TIME 36 hours of checking knights and dragons during gw you shoukd get something better then an outdated plus version chest. Even if its like a beast key special chest for higher chance for epics.

I still believe gree should make you pay a 10 dollar fee to enter gw with UNLIMITED ENERGY. Would let everyone have a shot at top ten and no more backing down in fights. As far as stat bonuses you pay you get the bonus for eb help on element bonus.

Ive suggested such things to gree through email only to get a message saying ty for your feedback. Thats was over 5 months ago.
What better rewards? Maybe if they gave you three different epics for top 25 it would be fine. The only thing to change is maybe top twelve or top fifteen rewards. But then people will still complain that they don't get good enough rewards.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

What better rewards? Maybe if they gave you three different epics for top 25 it would be fine. The only thing to change is maybe top twelve or top fifteen rewards. But then people will still complain that they don't get good enough rewards.

I told you the rewards. I would love an increase chance for epics box. Lets say a ten times chest for epics but you can only get the keys through guild war you cant buy in that chest with gems. Get rid of dark prince chest and make it a gw chest keys only. The higher your rank the more keys you get.
its a simple fix and I'd be happy with a lottery ticket idea for an epic over a plus eb armor or fusion boost

[bosskiller]

I told you the rewards. I would love an increase chance for epics box. Lets say a ten times chest for epics but you can only get the keys through guild war you cant buy in that chest with gems. Get rid of dark prince chest and make it a gw chest keys only. The higher your rank the more keys you get.
its a simple fix and I'd be happy with a lottery ticket idea for an epic over a plus eb armor or fusion boost

Now there is an idea. I like it. Maybe not 10x but something higher than 3x.

[PhoenixZee]

guess you just keep missing the fact that it's not just rate the game a 1*. It's more than that. But I guess keep trolling and pushing thread to top. I assume that's why you keep responding. You want to see change but are just to lazy to get involved. Probably because you are 425lbs and eat mc donalds every meal.

I already asked you to explain what we're missing. If you are too afraid to post it here for fear of violating some policies...then send me a PM. I fully support the ideals of this "movement", but you couldn't explain what it is we're missing. The McDonald's analogy is spot-on based on existing posted information from those in the know....but maybe it's this large salty fry I've got stuffed in my ogre-sized mouth that's clouding my judgement.

[PhoenixZee]

Yes I read it. That's why I said he wasn't using logic. Neither of you know what is going on because you refuse to join chat or ask to join

I did ask to join. I was told no because there is already someone from my guild (generally ranked between T25-T50) and we're allied with Majestic so they claimed wanted room for other guilds. I understand that, and I'm not upset at it.

But I did ask.

[PhoenixZee]

I told you the rewards. I would love an increase chance for epics box. Lets say a ten times chest for epics but you can only get the keys through guild war you cant buy in that chest with gems. Get rid of dark prince chest and make it a gw chest keys only. The higher your rank the more keys you get.
its a simple fix and I'd be happy with a lottery ticket idea for an epic over a plus eb armor or fusion boost

This is actually a fantastic idea. Do you see this Gree?

[a MenTaL CaSe]

This is actually a fantastic idea. Do you see this Gree?

Thanks for the support guys. I normally dont do forums but im in majestic ally with miki and im trying to support him. I was there before he was in legion. Ive helped legion become a top 50 guild. 25 when I was there :) and I have talked to most of top ten guilds. So I know a little about the game. Im not some new player to knd. I currently have 4 gw epics non plus.

[bosskiller]

I already asked you to explain what we're missing. If you are too afraid to post it here for fear of violating some policies...then send me a PM. I fully support the ideals of this "movement", but you couldn't explain what it is we're missing. The McDonald's analogy is spot-on based on existing posted information from those in the know....but maybe it's this large salty fry I've got stuffed in my ogre-sized mouth that's clouding my judgement.

I literally laughed at that post. I understand that that is not what is really happening, but since I am not in the chat, it really does seem that way. Because there are some supporters in top 10 guilds who will not stop spending. But when you think about it, it is a little bit different, because the 11+ rewards are the rewards that we want changed, not the top 10 rewards. Those are the only rewards worth spending for, so why stop spending for the good rewards? Then you will get the rewards that we are already complaining about! So Top 10 will not stop spending. But 11+ can.

[PhoenixZee]

Thanks :)

It just seems that those who are "in the know" and cool enough to be in the chat are forgetting that those of us issuing concerns here may not be in the chat...and thus while they may view our posts as irrelevant because maybe they know something we don't...that's precisely the bloody point. They know something we don't.

And mocking us and telling us to join a chatroom is pointless, when as has been stated by not just me...they don't want duplicates from the same guild. Well if I don't know who my bloody rep is, or (s)he isn't relaying information, then we have a failure to communicate to the movement as a whole, and I put that on the leadership.

[09cobaltss]

Thanks :)

It just seems that those who are "in the know" and cool enough to be in the chat are forgetting that those of us issuing concerns here may not be in the chat...and thus while they may view our posts as irrelevant because maybe they know something we don't...that's precisely the bloody point. They know something we don't.

And mocking us and telling us to join a chatroom is pointless, when as has been stated by not just me...they don't want duplicates from the same guild. Well if I don't know who my bloody rep is, or (s)he isn't relaying information, then we have a failure to communicate to the movement as a whole, and I put that on the leadership. you said your guild has someone in the chat. You could ask them. And yes top ten has no reason to stop spending so they won't. But every guild who doesn't have a legitimate shot at top ten can stop spending a single gem. I hit 60 on every epic boss why do I need to waste money on a armor that is worse than what I get for free

[PhoenixZee]

Welcome to the Internet, where you/I are/am wrong and stupid and I/you am/are right and nobody has to agree with anybody, regardless of whether an attempted articulate discussion is present.

:rolleyes:

[09cobaltss]

I do like the idea of giving keys out with a chance at a better reward from a guild war chest

[PhoenixZee]

you said your guild has someone in the chat. You could ask them. And yes top ten has no reason to stop spending so they won't. But every guild who doesn't have a legitimate shot at top ten can stop spending a single gem. I hit 60 on every epic boss why do I need to waste money on a armor that is worse than what I get for free

You must have missed the part where I insinuated that it was unknown who the rep was, and they weren't relaying information. I'll say it clearly; I don't know who my rep is and they aren't saying anything at all. I do know that someone from my guild is already in and I was shut out, despite being a very, very active participant and 6th place in scoring in the last War when they took me into the T10 guild I was in for that war.

So I'm not valued; that's all fine and dandy. And as to the Top 10 not needing to stop spending because they have their location secure?

I bet Forsaken thought they did, too.

You're Top 10...until you're not.

[bosskiller]

Thanks :)

It just seems that those who are "in the know" and cool enough to be in the chat are forgetting that those of us issuing concerns here may not be in the chat...and thus while they may view our posts as irrelevant because maybe they know something we don't...that's precisely the bloody point. They know something we don't.

And mocking us and telling us to join a chatroom is pointless, when as has been stated by not just me...they don't want duplicates from the same guild. Well if I don't know who my bloody rep is, or (s)he isn't relaying information, then we have a failure to communicate to the movement as a whole, and I put that on the leadership.

I agree. Can someone please relay what is going on in that chat room? We have one representative for each guild, but they are not giving us the information. Could someone post the important things that are happening to the rest of us NOT in the chat?

[PhoenixZee]

Again...I wholly invite you to PM me and explain to me the unposted goals ya'll have. I'll even publicly say right here that I won't copy and paste it here. Tell me what you know that I don't so I can see the true direction ya'll have planned.

[Ghost of the Eunuchorn]

Again...I wholly invite you to PM me and explain to me the unposted goals ya'll have. I'll even publicly say right here that I won't copy and paste it here. Tell me what you know that I don't so I can see the true direction ya'll have planned.

Plan A: QQ Corporotacracy QQ

Plan B: Cry/whine Corporotacracy Cry/Whine

[a MenTaL CaSe]

You must have missed the part where I insinuated that it was unknown who the rep was, and they weren't relaying information. I'll say it clearly; I don't know who my rep is and they aren't saying anything at all. I do know that someone from my guild is already in and I was shut out, despite being a very, very active participant and 6th place in scoring in the last War when they took me into the T10 guild I was in for that war.

So I'm not valued; that's all fine and dandy. And as to the Top 10 not needing to stop spending because they have their location secure?

I bet Forsaken thought they did, too.

You're Top 10...until you're not.

Forsaken never had a chance in hellfire war. We were planning to go over 15 mil day 3 but they slowed down. Over half are guild had over 3k gems left. Majestic is more about getting the cheapest epics since 2 to 10 doesn't matter much. Just my 2 cents being on the inside.

[xXMegaCamXx]

I supportt he 11+ movement

[ZERO_07]

Majestic is more about getting the cheapest epics since 2 to 10 doesn't matter much. Just my 2 cents being on the inside.
I don't see a point in spending $100's more for just a few more Fusion Boosts.

[Sol Invictus]

What guild are you in, Phoenix?

[Skittle Stomper]

Eunuchorn bumps all the 11+ threads, gets his 4th account banned.

Seriously, I love Gree so much. Though, I'm not sure if that's a good or bad sign for the movement....

[09cobaltss]

Thank you Elita. Now it would be really nice to know what kind of things can be done to make the game better. So if you could let us know it would help a ton. Our major concerns are war rewards being worse than current epic boss armors. This gives us very little to fight for. So what can be done?

[a MenTaL CaSe]

Thank you Elita. Now it would be really nice to know what kind of things can be done to make the game better. So if you could let us know it would help a ton. Our major concerns are war rewards being worse than current epic boss armors. This gives us very little to fight for. So what can be done?

I just want to thumbs up this comment. Well said.

[Sol Invictus]

Elita PMed me and said that the next reward for 11-50 will be a special new Legendary armor.

It's gonna be an effigy of busteroaf covered in a thick layer bird excrement and the shield will be the concentrated bitterness from a life full of failure and disappointment.

[ZERO_07]

Elita PMed me and said that the next reward for 11-50 will be a special new Legendary armor.

It's gonna be an effigy of busteroaf covered in a thick layer bird excrement and the shield will be the concentrated bitterness from a life full of failure and disappointment.
The 1st failure was buying Apple

[bosskiller]

Elita PMed me and said that the next reward for 11-50 will be a special new Legendary armor.

It's gonna be an effigy of busteroaf covered in a thick layer bird excrement and the shield will be the concentrated bitterness from a life full of failure and disappointment.

why would she PM just you?

[Dark Prince]

Hopefully 'soon' does mean soon

Hello, hello,

Please feel free to post the 11+ threads as long as you can leave out the boycotting clause :)

In regards to the other questions, I will address them soon. Thanks for being patient!

[Dark Prince]

why would she PM just you?

Hes joking did you even read the second paragraph? Although that would be a splendid reward

[smujica93]

Hes joking did you even read the second paragraph? Although that would be a splendid reward

Better than Blackfrost+ ;)

[busteroaf]

Elita PMed me and said that the next reward for 11-50 will be a special new Legendary armor.

It's gonna be an effigy of busteroaf covered in a thick layer bird excrement and the shield will be the concentrated bitterness from a life full of failure and disappointment.

I think he/she just responded to a ton of PMs because I had one too. I wouldn't feel too special. Though you did just F it up and add in some childish derogatory comments nullifying any hope that Elita actually did respond to you about your 11+ movement.

But here, I'll take the bait.

Elita said it would be an effigy of me? Sweet deal! An armor devoted to me! For all those who can't quite crack the Top 10. I hope they call it Buster's KSA Armor, and it adds 50 points to your IQ. And the shield will be made of the concentrated bitterness of a life full of failure and disappointment. Oh you slay me so, Mark Jr. But if that is the case, it will be an amalgamation of the following GW/GW+ epics I've gotten during my play time. If you need a refresher, that would be: a Cloud+, a Forge+, a Necro+, a Blazestone, a Kerstmans, and a Bronze Chromatic. Luckily for you, with your guild in ... 47th place, you'll be able to get it.

Keep em coming.

PS. Sick dance moves bro. Tell your Grandma I liked her camera work.

[Skittle Stomper]

Buster, Eunuchorn left & you became the antichrist by default. Poor humans. Worst part is they are all so sure they're right.

Keep on voting. Or at least definitely start once you all start turning 18.

[smujica93]

Buster, Eunuchorn left & you became the antichrist by default. Poor humans. Worst part is they are all so sure they're right.

Keep on voting. Or at least definitely start once you all start turning 18.

Looks like someone has a bone to pick with us "poor humans." Keep it up. Because being a keyboard warrior makes you a man.

[Ancientwonder]

I don't mean to burst your bubbles but regarding the "special new Legendary armor", remember the guild gifting? I'm pretty sure the description for that was "GIFT YOUR GUILD MATES WITH LEGENDARY REWARDS!" And look what we have in the end....

So my take on all this is, seriously don't expect Gree to take us seriously and go out of their way to make the game better. There is a way if you are really determined though. Save all your money and use it on Gree shares. We can then control Gree's fate by accumulating those shares.:cool:

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this 11+ movement. I just don't think we should be surprised if they do not respond in the way we want them to.

[Sol Invictus]

amirite?


http://i.minus.com/i4rLg7gRBoMMv.jpg

[smujica93]

amirite?


http://i.minus.com/i4rLg7gRBoMMv.jpg

I think those would be more than reasonable rewards. Would love to see that happen

[mikieblue]

This the north+ is overboard for 11-25 tbh. Standard is more than fair and 51-100 should still just be BFR+ and non+ 100-250.

[pimmen8]

i would love to see this happen on the next war

[PhoenixZee]

Now that I'm back home from work, I'll respond to whoever asked me about my guild momentarily. I couldn't recall my password so I couldn't log in from the cell...and I didn't want to risk asking for a reset since the last account I had prior to this one...Gree never sent me the e-mail with the reset link, despite acknowledging the e-mail. So there's your money being spent wisely. Achem.

Anyway, yeah. Cobalt did e-mail me, but still hasn't addressed my concerns or advised of anything said in the super private chat. He and I both said basically the same thing there that's been said here, so as far as I'm concerned I'm still standing at Square 1 waiting on someone to tell me what the real movement is.

Secondly...who is Elita? Moderator? Community Outreacher? Employee of some kind?

Third...yeah. That pic above. That. Northern...maybe 11-25, but beyond that, maybe too "extreme" by Gree standard. Imagine them trying to maintain that once a week for a war. They'd run out of "old epics" to offer up quickly, and then what would they have to entice people to BUY NEW CHESTS with? It's a nice dream, but I just don't see it happening.

[Sent]

amirite?


http://i.minus.com/i4rLg7gRBoMMv.jpg
That's just terrible. I'm sure rank 11-25 (maybe 11-13) don't even spend enough to be able to get an epic+.
It'll turn into:
"Have everyone in your guild spend 400 gems for a top 25 spot and get an epic+, something people have spent thousands of gems on chests or arena trying to get. No thanks. I'm down with the devs coming out with a new legendary every war.
Spend less than 100 gems each (maybe even none) on a top 100 spot to get an epic! No more wasting money on chests or spending your gold fusing! Just wait for a war and you'll get one for free!"
I'm down with the devs adding a new legendary every war idea. And yes, I have thought about this making people spend more gems to get to top 25 and top 100 positions. It won't be that many gems anyways.

[mikieblue]

Thanks Elita for tidying things up...

Can we please respect and keep everything to this thread only. It's time now for use to show some reserve and patience, allow those in charge to give us an update on what we can expect for future..

Thanks to everyone for your support so far :)

Kind regards,

Mikie

[busteroaf]

First lets look at the stat difference between Actual rewards and yours.

Current: Snowstorm+ @ 1975/2074 (4049), jumps down to Snowstorm Reg @ 1796/1796 (3592), then Blackfrost+ @1164/1164 (2328), finally Blackfrost Reg @ 1054/1054 (2108). Yes, sub 10, the rewards pretty much suck.

Yours: Snowstorm+ @ 1975/2074 (4049), jumps down to Snowstorm Reg @ 1796/1796 (3592 total), Northerners+ @ 2074/1611 (3685), Northerners Reg @ 1904/1357 (3261) then jumping back to Blackfrost+ @ 1164/1164 (2328). They seem better. But lets look closer.

Having Northerner in there does add a little buffer for the stats from slot to slot, but you do realize having a Northerner+ in there would actually have better stats than the 2-10th place Snowstorm armor, sans the double element bonus? You'd seriously give away a prize that good for more guilds (11-25), and people who spent/scored less than Top 10? So then Top 10 suffers right? And then of course once you get to 101, you go back to getting almost 1000 less stat points in their next armor. Now 101+ is the new 11+.

Do you honestly think that Northerner+ or reg is a legit prize for guilds, who can place in top 25/50 with great coordination and very little/no spending? Isn't that a slap in the face to a) Top 10 who are spending much more money than the next groups (please, don't argue this, you know for a fact its true), and b) people who opened chest after chest and still didn't get an epic? Just like many can easily get the EB+ with little to no effort, and think its a weak armor to reward for guild war, how is it fair to those that have paid 100s in an attempt to open chests with no luck?

Someone is always getting screwed.

*Also, thank you to the others who also noticed that the stat jump between rewards was slightly out of whack. I guess I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's a logically thought out set of prizes.

[pimmen8]

I would say
Ribbon A northerner's battlegear reg
Ribbon B moontide reg
Ribbon C moontide reg
Ribbon D blackfrost+

[Sent]

I would say
Ribbon A northerner's battlegear reg
Ribbon B moontide reg
Ribbon C moontide reg
Ribbon D blackfrost+
Or let's have:
Ribbon A: New legendary+ (as good as current eb armors)
Ribbon B: New legendary (as good as current eb armors)
Ribbon C: New legendary (as good as current eb armors)
Ribbon D: Old EB armor

[Doctor No]

The game is a good game. I and several others just started a new guild, teaching new players, will work our way back up. Gree provides us with many nice games. Keep up the good work. The one thing i would like is a world chat feature.

Thanks again,

Dr. No
The Fury of the Phoenix
Line id doctorno43

[EljayK]

None of this is relevant. Basic fire is still most powerful armor in game. All armors are useless compared to basic fire.

[bosskiller]

None of this is relevant. Basic fire is still most powerful armor in game. All armors are useless compared to basic fire.

Exactly. I dont get why they cant give us that in the wars....

[ZERO_07]

11-25 Should just get an Epic Non plus (Outdated and/or mono), this way those who do spend quite a bit for the battle of 10th place at least get a consolation prize.

50-100 should continue to get the same armor rewards, except possibly instead of the Gold and DPC Key maybe a few or couple Limited Keys, maybe even 2 Legendary, A Legendary and an Ultra or more Fusion Boosts

[Slayer 1]

Slayer + naysayer = nayslayer

Whenever any of these 'demands' are met, I'll happily eat crow and admit I was wrong/

[Skittle Stomper]

Eljay is correct; stripping exists so basic fire may as well be an epic+. What do ppl even use new armors for?

[Slayer 1]

...which is an indication of a poorly written 'demand'. Nothing is 'clear' - the statement was, " HC only to have declare ability."

If you're going to run a protest movement - get your demands straight and crystal clear without inference.

...not that it matters anyhow.

[Skittle Stomper]

...which is an indication of a poorly written 'demand'. Nothing is 'clear' - the statement was, " HC only to have declare ability."

If you're going to run a protest movement - get your demands straight and crystal clear without inference.

...not that it matters anyhow.

I addressed that once by providing about 30 links to threads from every other Gree game dating back up to a few years where ppl were demanding officer only declares, kicking during wars etc.

Gree has a model & does not give a flying flip if the players don't like it.

[Slayer 1]

oh, be nice. This is a Rockwell classic painted in Troy NY. Leave the American Classics alone.

I think your movement - though misguided and futile - is a noble one. I'll leave your thread alone.

[09cobaltss]

At least it has gotten more notice from gree than the others threads asking. So maybe it's a step in the right direction for both player and business.

[mikieblue]

...which is an indication of a poorly written 'demand'. Nothing is 'clear' - the statement was, " HC only to have declare ability."

If you're going to run a protest movement - get your demands straight and crystal clear without inference.

...not that it matters anyhow.

It's a small thing really it's pretty clear what it meant. HC+ but you're right! How observant of you... :rolleyes:
I cant change now as Elita trolled and stole my post :D *Waves fist*

And lets see if we get anywhere with Elita's response before you shoot us down. We're well aware that not everything on the list may be doable. But as i've said time and time again. WE are the customers and there's no reason we can't ask! At very least we deserve some understanding on GREE's position and what can / cant be done. So we know what we MUST live with and what they can change. Ofc time to implement is also a factor...

I'm not going to bother explaining again that it's in their interests to keep customers happy. See prev posts.

Thanks for the support everyone! I'm waiting eagerly for Elita's response now..

Mike

[Skittle Stomper]

The delusional optimism is physically painful to read. Slayer 1 is the only thing anchoring my sanity right now.

[mikieblue]

Then clearly you have no interest in this thread, Instead go play lets smack talk GREE elsewhere.

Your pessimism is painful to the other 400+ people who support what we're trying to do!

thanks!

[smujica93]

Then clearly you have no interest in this thread, Instead go play lets smack talk GREE elsewhere.

Your pessimism is painful to the other 400+ people who support what we're trying to do!

thanks!

I'm beginning to think Skittle Stomper is Eunuchorn's 4th account. If this is the case, then use the past as another indicator that we don't want or need you here. Go away now child.

If this is not the case, then still go away.

[King juju]

They banned his 2nd account too right? The ghost?

[smujica93]

They banned his 2nd account too right? The ghost?

Yep. Sure looks like it. 5741

[Sol Invictus]

Thank you for pointing out the stat difference, busteroaf. You are correct. It would make little sense to have a technically better reward for 11th place than 10th place. My reasoning was this...Northerner is an old Epic that is now fuseable. If you can spend 25k gold and get it, why shouldn't you be able to get it from war. I know you can't get a + from fusion.

That's all. Could've picked Forgestone+ or Beastmaster+. Doesn't matter. But 11-25 should get an old +.

A lot of people have brought up your objection about who should and shouldn't get what because they aren't putting in a commensurate amount of money or effort into it. I share this belief. Rewards should be commensurate with ranking, which is a result of effort.

GREE controls what armor stats are, so they ought to be a lot more precise and flexible when it comes to dishing out rewards. As long as it makes sense, I'm good with that.


BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS TO 11-50 IF WAR REWARDS IMPROVE

Players from lesser guilds will filter into the ranks of the top 100, pushing out the lower-performing players of those guilds.

Overall scoring capability of 11-100 guilds increases as participation and gemspending-per-guild increases.

Competition for 11-25 increases (which naturally increases competition for that #10 spot.).



What this means is, your objections about someone not spending enough or being active enough while still getting rewards "they didn't deserve because people gambled on chests and lost" will be nullified. There will not be a top 50 guild in existence that didn't get there without spending good money and without a lot of effort.


http://i.minus.com/ijGyjAHCOlQ3s.jpg

[busteroaf]

Thank you for pointing out the stat difference, busteroaf. You are correct. It would make little sense to have a technically better reward for 11th place than 10th place. My reasoning was this...Northerner is an old Epic that is now fuseable. If you can spend 25k gold and get it, why shouldn't you be able to get it from war. I know you can't get a + from fusion.

That's all. Could've picked Forgestone+ or Beastmaster+. Doesn't matter. But 11-25 should get an old +.

A lot of people have brought up your objection about who should and shouldn't get what because they aren't putting in a commensurate amount of money or effort into it. I share this belief. Rewards should be commensurate with ranking, which is a result of effort.

GREE controls what armor stats are, so they ought to be a lot more precise and flexible when it comes to dishing out rewards. As long as it makes sense, I'm good with that.


BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS TO 11-50 IF WAR REWARDS IMPROVE

Players from lesser guilds will filter into the ranks of the top 100, pushing out the lower-performing players of those guilds.

Overall scoring capability of 11-100 guilds increases as participation and gemspending-per-guild increases.

Competition for 11-25 increases (which naturally increases competition for that #10 spot.).



What this means is, your objections about someone not spending enough or being active enough while still getting rewards "they didn't deserve because people gambled on chests and lost" will be nullified. There will not be a top 50 guild in existence that didn't get there without spending good money and without a lot of effort.


If war rewards improve. IF war rewards improve, THEN 11-50 will spend more. That is a mighty big if. Where is the proof to back up your claims? You're still stuck with the idea that IF the rewards are better, the it is FACT that more people will magically start spending and make it worthwhile. Your claim is just as hypothetical as mine to say they won't.

You still sound an awful lot like saying if you give me a raise, then I'll do more work... doesn't it? Can you GUARANTEE that those people waiting in 11-50 are just honestly chomping at the bit to increase their spending to get an old epic? Can you guarantee that those person that is unproved and asking for a raise is going to do the work?

Please, show me the proof that those guilds will actually spend, and I'll concede.

I just honestly do not believe that there are that many players that will filter into the top 100 as you've stated... to replace all those lower performing players, when many of them simply do it for free? Sure, you may have some increase, but I do not feel it will be across the whole top 100 like you seem to believe. Its too large of a group to guarantee a spending increase for. At best, maybe the Top 25. Top 50 is a stretch at best. Top 100? Huge stretch.

Of course I could be totally wrong. But since we already have Top 10 guilds with the mindset of "lets not spend anything else for a few extra boosts, no sense in wasting money" I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Top 100 don't have the same mindset as well.

[Dark Prince]

If war rewards improve. IF war rewards improve, THEN 11-50 will spend more. That is a mighty big if. Where is the proof to back up your claims? You're still stuck with the idea that IF the rewards are better, the it is FACT that more people will magically start spending and make it worthwhile. Your claim is just as hypothetical as mine to say they won't.

You still sound an awful lot like saying if you give me a raise, then I'll do more work... doesn't it? Can you GUARANTEE that those people waiting in 11-50 are just honestly chomping at the bit to increase their spending to get an old epic? Can you guarantee that those person that is unproved and asking for a raise is going to do the work?

Please, show me the proof that those guilds will actually spend, and I'll concede.

I just honestly do not believe that there are that many players that will filter into the top 100 as you've stated... to replace all those lower performing players, when many of them simply do it for free? Sure, you may have some increase, but I do not feel it will be across the whole top 100 like you seem to believe. Its too large of a group to guarantee a spending increase for. At best, maybe the Top 25. Top 50 is a stretch at best. Top 100? Huge stretch.

Of course I could be totally wrong. But since we already have Top 10 guilds with the mindset of "lets not spend anything else for a few extra boosts, no sense in wasting money" I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Top 100 don't have the same mindset as well.

Agreed Imo Top 25 is where it should stop being an Epic reward.

[Dark Prince]

I'm beginning to think Skittle Stomper is Eunuchorn's 4th account. If this is the case, then use the past as another indicator that we don't want or need you here. Go away now child.

If this is not the case, then still go away.

+1 to Majestic

[Sol Invictus]

Please, show me the proof that those guilds will actually spend, and I'll concede.

Of course I could be totally wrong.


The proof is that I sent messages to people from dozens of guilds asking them if they were fed up with bad war rewards and all of them except one or two said that they were. Many, like Azure Dragon Nexus, have said that they don't spend gems at all anymore.

That is how this whole thing started. The proof is the existence of this movement.

The proof is in all the people in my guild who are tired of holding back on gemspending because war rewards aren't worth it.
The proof is in all the people in many of the guilds that you used to see in the top 50 or top 100, but now you never see them above 150.

The proof is that people will do what you and other naysayers have so condescendingly suggested, which is to recruit better, because they want those rewards. I've done a lot of recruiting, and it's not easy. If you're a guild that can reach out to an active player from a #200+ guild and say "Come with us, we can get you this 11-100 prize." then it's gonna be a lot easier to convince that person to join up.

The proof is that the same exact effect takes place in top 10 guilds.




To further illustrate my point, here is an example based on my own guild:

http://i.minus.com/iwrRD8jFdYup6.jpg


This only makes sense.

Scoring will increase because people WANT to spend gems on better rewards.
GREE is simply not giving people an incentive to spend.

Give incentive.
People will spend.
Points will increase.
Competition will increase.
People will spend more to keep up.

[Melibane Urambir]

The proof is that I sent messages to people from dozens of guilds asking them if they were fed up with bad war rewards and all of them except one or two said that they were. Many, like Azure Dragon Nexus, have said that they don't spend gems at all anymore.

That is how this whole thing started. The proof is the existence of this movement.

The proof is in all the people in my guild who are tired of holding back on gemspending because war rewards aren't worth it.
The proof is in all the people in many of the guilds that you used to see in the top 50 or top 100, but now you never see them above 150.

The proof is that people will do what you and other naysayers have so condescendingly suggested, which is to recruit better, because they want those rewards. I've done a lot of recruiting, and it's not easy. If you're a guild that can reach out to an active player from a #200+ guild and say "Come with us, we can get you this 11-100 prize." then it's gonna be a lot easier to convince that person to join up.

The proof is that the same exact effect takes place in top 10 guilds.




To further illustrate my point, here is an example based on my own guild:

http://i.minus.com/iwrRD8jFdYup6.jpg


This only makes sense.

Scoring will increase because people WANT to spend gems on better rewards.
GREE is simply not giving people an incentive to spend.

Give incentive.
People will spend.
Points will increase.
Competition will increase.
People will spend more to keep up.



Exactly. People will spend if they think there is a good chance they can get something "worthwhile" to them. Of course "worthwhile" varies from person to person, but there's no reason to think that guilds 26-100 wouldn't slug it out just like the top 25 if there was something more attractive in the 26-30 spot. Hell, moontide+, tectonic+, blazeborne+, then slide down to regular epics in the 31-35 spots. Those armors are extremely valuable to guilds in those areas of the ranking and would produce gem spending in order to get them. At this point with specter, komodo, runic, etc. that giving out these lower tier epics and plusses will hardly make a ripple in the upper echelon of guilds and their spending habits as they already have these armors sitting in their closet collecting dust.

[busteroaf]

The proof is that I sent messages to people from dozens of guilds asking them if they were fed up with bad war rewards and all of them except one or two said that they were. Many, like Azure Dragon Nexus, have said that they don't spend gems at all anymore.

That is how this whole thing started. The proof is the existence of this movement.

The proof is in all the people in my guild who are tired of holding back on gemspending because war rewards aren't worth it.
The proof is in all the people in many of the guilds that you used to see in the top 50 or top 100, but now you never see them above 150.

The proof is that people will do what you and other naysayers have so condescendingly suggested, which is to recruit better, because they want those rewards. I've done a lot of recruiting, and it's not easy. If you're a guild that can reach out to an active player from a #200+ guild and say "Come with us, we can get you this 11-100 prize." then it's gonna be a lot easier to convince that person to join up.

The proof is that the same exact effect takes place in top 10 guilds.

To further illustrate my point, here is an example based on my own guild:

This only makes sense.

Scoring will increase because people WANT to spend gems on better rewards.
GREE is simply not giving people an incentive to spend.

Give incentive.
People will spend.
Points will increase.
Competition will increase.
People will spend more to keep up.

Proof is in you sending messages? In the existence in the movement? And here I just thought it was about getting better rewards. Its actually about giving them more money. You're so sweet.

"Are you fed up?" YEAH.
"Do you want better rewards?" YEAH!
"Are you gonna spend more now?" Well maybe... depends on what the other guilds around me spend, what the rewards are, what the wife says I can spend... so maybe. Do we know what the rewards are yet?

No offense, but using 12k as your example cutoff is laughable. People get that while sitting on the couch on an easy gem session in one battle. Hell, people can do that in a matter of about 10 minutes. Some have gotten that much in less than 6 minutes before. People below 12k, just aren't trying. Its not for lack of prizes, its that they're just that lazy.

Also, your 25% increase? That is called having a minimum and cutting the people who don't meet it, and replacing them with people who do. That is not PROVING any increase in gem spending. I could get 12k just from logging into 10-12 average wars, and dropping full energy and not spending a cent. Increased activity =/= increased spending. For some it does, but not all. Especially not your example.

[Sol Invictus]

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121105223855/creepypasta/images/2/2b/Dafuq-did-i-just-read-meme.jpg
http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.12397381.4714/cp,375x360,s,ffffff.jpg

[busteroaf]

Also Sol,

Your math is wrong. If those bottom 17 (Damn you have a lot of leechers you call guild members) all scored the 12k you talk about, that magic 204k or 25% increase as you call it, you would actually only be gaining 111202. Yes, I did the math. Your original bottom 17 did 92798 in scoring. If you are talking about actually only ADDING 12k to each of their scores, then sure, you'd have a 204k increase. But, in your image, you said "REPLACED." That means, they, and all their original points, are gone. Replaced with people who scored 12k minimum.

So in reality, your math is actually 794,318 + 111,202 = 905,520. Which, if you do the math... wait, I did it for you... is actually only a 13.999% increase. So you're kinda right. If you replaced your bottom feeders with people who are able to log in a few times each day and actually earn points, you might get an extra 111k in points, or a 14% (yes, I'm rounding now) increase in your points. You were still able to show proof of increase in points. Good for you.

Still not showing me proof of increased GEM spending though, since 12k is nothing.

[Sol Invictus]

You're right.
But 12k is the minimum for this EXAMPLE because I went with the low figure in order to be conservative.
Surely, people would score more than 12k in this EXAMPLE. Maybe the replacements for the bottom scorers would post an average of 20k each. The points I used are speculation, but you can apply this EXAMPLE to any guild from 11-100 and it would still hold true, more or less.

The main point is the same. And it's a solid point. Every objection you make is a logical fallacy.


Hey, do we need to get a room to ourselves so I can educate you without hogging up this thread? I feel bad.

[busteroaf]

You're right.
But 12k is the minimum for this EXAMPLE because I went with the low figure in order to be conservative.
Surely, people would score more than 12k in this EXAMPLE. Maybe the replacements for the bottom scorers would post an average of 20k each. The points I used are speculation, but you can apply this EXAMPLE to any guild from 11-100 and it would still hold true, more or less.

The main point is the same. And it's a solid point. Every objection you make is a logical fallacy.


Hey, do we need to get a room to ourselves so I can educate you without hogging up this thread? I feel bad.

You said it yourself. The points you use are speculation.

You used a low figure in order to be conservative? You used your own guild. Rank 65, replacing over 40% of the people in it, and you think that is low and conservative? It doesn't look good for those 66 and down now either. Do you see why I'm skeptical of your example, and why it I don't think it would hold true... more or less?

Are you meaning to say, that people outside of the top 100, will replace 40% of the people in 11-100 rank guilds, and magically increase spending? Do you not think that many of those people being replaced would simply find slightly lower ranked guilds, or that some of the main spenders would not just move to higher ranked guilds?

Again, you're reaching too far in your examples. Filter into the Top 25 and see an increase, maybe, but 50/100 is a real stretch.

[ZERO_07]

#1
Snowstorm Platemail+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x15
Limited Edition Keys x5
Gems x100

#2
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x12
Limited Edition Keys x4
Gems x 80

#3
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x10
Limited Edition Keys x 3
Gems x60

#4-10
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x8
Limited Edition Keys x3
Gems x40

#11-25
Northerner's Battlegear x1
Water Fusion Boosts x7
Limited Edition Keys x2
Gems x20

#25-50
Clayplate Mantle+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x5
Limited Edition Key x2
Storm Sorcerer+ x1

#51-100
Clayplate Mantle+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x3
Limited Edition Key x1
Storm Sorcerer+ x1

#101-250
Clayplate Mantle x1
Water Fusion Boosts x2
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
Fusion Stones x10

#251-500
Clayplate Mantle x1
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
Fusion Stones x 8

#501-1XXX
Same Rewards as always

If anything this would be better than the garbage photoschop proposal posted before.

[AviraM]

I am with you, it's kinda lame after level 100. And also not worth for people that burn their money into this game

[Sol Invictus]

bla bla bla

http://i4.minus.com/ijGyjAHCOlQ3s.jpg


If GREE actually makes war rewards more worthwhile, we will see in 2-3 months that I am right and you are wrong.

[busteroaf]

Wow.

The movement must be so proud of you. As one of its most vocal supporters, I'm sure they're just in awe of your superior photoshop skills.

Again, you lack the reasoning skills to counter anything I say, so you "blah blah blah" it away and continue your babbling.

And 2-3 months? We're going to listen to you whine about 11+ until then? Ugh.

[XxDARCLEOxX]

I agree that the rewards are far out of reach for anyone who plays KnD and doesn't pull in six figures. Basically you start off playing an amazing game, but soon realize that unless you have THOUSANDS of dollars to spend on gems (in HOPES of a worth while reward), you will never reach anything "worth" blowing all that money on. Top 500 alone is a nice accomplishment for an infant guild, but the rewards are junk. I say EB armors for 500+, plus version for 250+ and then begin the low level epics at 100+.

Change the alga-rhythms for the chests, and the fusions as well. House seems to have a HUGE advantage! this game is suppose to be FUN right?!

And level 100 on.....whats the point?! I got ONE GEM for hitting lvl 126 yesterday. REALLY!? will there ever be an update to allow stat increases after 100? If so, those of us past lvl 100 will also miss out on any other bonuses given to 100+ if there is ever an update.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. People will stop playing and paying if it continues to all be for nothing.

Oh, and just one more thought... Thanks for the starter packs. I will not be purchasing any thing but them from now on. Oh, you took them away? well, as i said I won't be purchasing anything other than that until things change. Oh! and the GEMTACULAR thing....yeah HA!! I bet most everyone buys ten bucks worth of gems to get the 3 fba and that's it. really, from 50 to 1,500 to 5000! FYI 5k gems would cost you roughly $500!!! some of us support our families and don't have that kind of money. not sure what world you're living in, but it seems a bit.....EXCESSIVE.

The guild relations is the ONLY appealing part of the game, if it weren't for the other players and the friendships gained, I would have dumped this game months ago.

ONE MORE THING!! IMPORTANT!! -- Please explain to me WHY if you add higher lvl friends when you begin and hire them for battle, WHY do they get creamed even with stats over 2k?!? My son added me and is on lvl 26. I can defeat the EB 20+ times with only my main knight. But if he hires me to go into battle, I'm no stronger than he is and even with my help he is unable to beat a lvl 10 EB?! why add higher lvl friends then? Or at all? I can't use their full potential til YOU BECOME THAT STRONG TOO? Well, by then we DON'T NEED them. Makes no sense. Another way to hold a player back despite them trying to advance so that ONCE AGAIN dependency on gems comes into play.

Maybe you should just make a new version for poor people. Call it Knights and Dragons II: Ages of Recession.

Looking forward to future "updates"

[bosskiller]

Please explain to me WHY if you add higher lvl friends when you begin and hire them for battle, WHY do they get creamed even with stats over 2k?!?

Your stats are the same, but your health is the same as his.

[obviously]

To add to the list of burning questions.

Whats up with the increasing miss ratio. I'm missing so much the only hit I'm getting is my palm against my face.

And can we fix screen rotation, cause it's no fun typing in guild chat in horizontal keyboard

[Skittle Stomper]

Soooooo many first time Gree game players. I merely discuss how the Gree model works & the way they implement their business plan & I'm called a Gree hater. I've been the staunchest supporter of the game & insisting changes were coming. Guess what, they aren't.

Gree doesn't make money giving players new content, they make it by covering as many demographics as possible with as many games as possible.

For the record, this is my 5th forum account, 14th month playing the game, & 4th Gree game.

[Sol Invictus]

http://www.deathisbadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/No_one_cares.jpg

[09cobaltss]

Soooooo many first time Gree game players. I merely discuss how the Gree model works & the way they implement their business plan & I'm called a Gree hater. I've been the staunchest supporter of the game & insisting changes were coming. Guess what, they aren't.

Gree doesn't make money giving players new content, they make it by covering as many demographics as possible with as many games as possible.

For the record, this is my 5th forum account, 14th month playing the game, & 4th Gree game. if this is your 4th gree game then you are more of an idiot than I originally thought. Every heard the saying " Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me" ? And this is your 4th

[Sent]

if this is your 4th gree game then you are more of an idiot than I originally thought. Every heard the saying " Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me" ? And this is your 4th
Ever heard of getting bored of games?

[bosskiller]

Soooooo many first time Gree game players. I merely discuss how the Gree model works & the way they implement their business plan & I'm called a Gree hater. I've been the staunchest supporter of the game & insisting changes were coming. Guess what, they aren't.

Gree doesn't make money giving players new content, they make it by covering as many demographics as possible with as many games as possible.

For the record, this is my 5th forum account, 14th month playing the game, & 4th Gree game.

So you ARE eunochorn... they called that one.

[busteroaf]

So you ARE eunochorn... they called that one.

Aww. And he hasn't contacted me yet? I don't want to be the default anti-christ anymore. But... like you said, they're all so sure they're right, SOMEONE has to keep them in check.

/wrists

[furyp]

You guys still don't get it. Gree doesn't care if any of you leave/quit.

[smujica93]

You guys still don't get it. Gree doesn't care if any of you leave/quit.

They would certainly care if enough spenders quit the game, but since that is not happening and probably won't happen in the future, then they have no incentive to change their model. What works for them is clearly working in terms of profit, since people are still spending.

[smujica93]

I also think that many people fail to realize that Knights and Dragons isn't Gree's only game. They have plenty of other endeavors and projects that are earning them money, so their eggs are definitely not all in one basket. As a result, they:

1. Probably do not have as many people working on KnD as many think, and

2. Can afford to not listen to any of our requests because, again, it is clearly making them money.

[furyp]

Nah by the time spenders quit, they would have stop making weekly updates (no epic boss, no arena, no guildwar), then they will shut down the game. Look at what happened to monster quest.

[busteroaf]

Come on guys! Where is the positivity about the movement at?

Sol said it would only be 2-3 months before he'd be able to tell me he was right and they'll change the rewards.

Changes are coming!

[smujica93]

Nah by the time spenders quit, they would have stop making weekly updates (no epic boss, no arena, no guildwar), then they will shut down the game. Look at what happened to monster quest.

Can people who had Monster Quest on Android still play it? KnD is my first (and probably last) Gree game so I never got MQ. I see it's still on the iTunes store, but not the Play store.

[Sol Invictus]

They would certainly care if enough spenders quit the game, but since that is not happening and probably won't happen in the future, then they have no incentive to change their model. What works for them is clearly working in terms of profit, since people are still spending.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/210814/Dip_in_coin_consumption_sees_Grees_earnings_tumble .php

GREE predicts a 36% drop in profits compared to the same time last year.

[littlefishxbj]

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af294/Littlefishxbj/3608F6F4EF65C0F52A9624B622A56FE20140217071801_zps4 b3cd73d.jpg (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/Littlefishxbj/media/3608F6F4EF65C0F52A9624B622A56FE20140217071801_zps4 b3cd73d.jpg.html)

[Marco_]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/210814/Dip_in_coin_consumption_sees_Grees_earnings_tumble .php

GREE predicts a 36% drop in profits compared to the same time last year.
More relevant: "The company says that its upcoming first-party and partner titles should do the trick, with 10 titles planned for release during the second half of the fiscal year".
Really seems like a quantity over quality approach...


I'm mostly retired from 3 day wars since running KoD Epic and collecting gold twice a day to donate is much less work than being active battling for 3 days to get legendary fusion fodder and a few fusion boosts.

[zoko]

I have a priest's nemesis but his stats maxed is very low.In game gree give stats max att 1000 def 947.My stats maxed att 673 def 620.I i think nothing.

[akindfoe]

Instead of allowing gm to kick leechers, why don't they make it so gms have to set a minimum point req before the war, and if you dont meet it then you don't get the rewards.
what rubbish idea is that.........

[iH8tBANNEDftw]

what rubbish idea is that.........
You must be a leecher then.

[akindfoe]

Not a leecher but seriously if the gm set 250k points and only the champ and sent and all gem spender can get it and I only switch guild the second time for 6 months first one I left was because no one is active and the second one is .....everyone from active to 1 or 2 times a week active

[09cobaltss]

If you can't meet a minimum requirement you are a leecher. Doesn't matter how you look at it. If your phone broke or whatever they can always re invite you. But if you don't meet a requirement what makes you think you deserve anything?