Economy planning & discussion

[AppleMacGuy]

Ya i'm really torn on what to do nightclub wise. I could save and build both of semi easily right now, but i dont want to build them and leave them at level 1...so im looking at a 200m+ investment, and that just seems boring and way too long. I think i'll probably see where im at once i build hotels, gmens, and office buildings...and if it doesnt seem too daunting then thats probably a good time for me.

What is your hourly income? One reason I waited to build the Nightclubs till late in the game was exactly the same as you...not wanting to wait forever to save up the cash. I started when my hourly income was around $400K IIRC and I found that worked out OK for me...I'm going through the exercise of saving/building 2 Casinos just now and it is quite OK with the cash flowing freely...

PS I did expend a lot of stamina towards high value target robbing also...and that cash helps a lot in getting to the required outlay. My stats used to be skewed towards robbing but now it is heavily slanted towards fighting since of course I can pretty much self-generate as much cash as I need. At this point masses of RP from fighting is my number one objective...but I still seek out top drawer robs for some additional fun! ;)

[deuces]

I'm around 200k now, those 3 buildings will add 95k once 2x of each are built, and i'd assume i'll have done semi close to 100k in upgrades by then, putting me close to the 400k mark, and in decent shape to start nighclubs. Saving is just soooooo boring, by level 140ish robbing will have improved a lot as well making the saving process even less.

edit: a downside of this is that i'll be doing upgrades in or near the 2000's in ROI by that time, while not doing the 1100 ROI nightclub level 2 upgrade.

[qwikster]

qwikster

1 wk+6.58%$211,484

4 wk+33.40%

8 wk+184.78%

12 wk+344.91%



Breakdown of my economy

12hr&+ buildings: 78.5%

non-gold buildings: 70.2% (includes icecream shops)

top 5 buildings types: 60.4%

Loftx2: 21.0%
PTx2: 13.0%
MTx2: 9.8%
RCx2: 9.5%
UCx2:7.1%

[G Wiz]

...Altitude sickness (hehe)

[jaywalker]

Breakdown of my economy

12hr&+ buildings: 49%


top 5 buildings types: 65.3%
Loft x 2: 15.1%
MT x 2: 13.8%
Laundro x 2: 12.9%
Italian x 2: 12.3%
Ice Cream x 2: 11.2%

[Ghost818]

...Altitude sickness (hehe)

Right there with ya brotha haha

and theres more where that came from, finished my first hotel today building my second, upgrading my italian restaurants that I lagged on ATM

[Dorian Gray]

Dorians Guide on how to place last in the weekly economic comparison:

1. Start saving for NC
2. Build only Missle Turrets
3. Upgrade only Gatling Turrets to level 2, remember to keep forgetting they have a short upgrade time, that way you only get done with about two per day.

[whocareswhatmynameis]

Dorians Guide on how to place last in the weekly economic comparison:

1. Start saving for NC
2. Build only Missle Turrets
3. Upgrade only Gatling Turrets to level 2, remember to keep forgetting they have a short upgrade time, that way you only get done with about two per day.

and
4. Encourage duder to level up and get new buildings.
:)

[Dorian Gray]

and
4. Encourage duder to level up and get new buildings.
:)

lol Good point, thanks duder.

[Joe Brown1]

You just HAD to prove you were best at something didnt you?? :D kidding, pretty unreal 12 week gain with no gold help.

Thanks for all the hard work TS - love the stats - especially since I am #2 behind you on the 12 week gain (but a distant #2) - also with no gold help.

[dudeman]

Wow, top of the 4 week list was unexpected. I'm not following any guides or doing anything special, I just build/upgrade according to what the timers look like and whether or not the build/upgrade is affordable. If that means building or upgrading defense buildings to get the timers back on a convenient schedule, so be it.

[Santa]

What happened to the guide? Did forum mods finally delete it?

[transfer]

Is there any save of Tramp Stamp's work ?
His spreadsheet and first post about basics for a strong economy certainly inspired most of us and made this game way more interesting and in-depth than it seemed at first glance.

If anything, his contributions are invaluable and made players more hooked into this game for which Funzio should be grateful, I see no logical reason why it deserved a delete.
Let's hope it gets back in a form or another at a point.

[ShawnBB]

What the hell is going on to this thread?
Who deleted Tramp Stamp's hard work?
Hey, Santa,you know what happened?

[Ghost818]

I wonder what the reasoning behind deleteing TS guide -_-

[Santa]

It's been moved to the Creative section of the forums. Maybe a forum glitch? It's been renamed to Hood Decoration I think. Most of the old posts are still here, but a couple got moved with TS's guide. Very peculiar...

[Holicaholic]

I sure do love Funzio adding more quality paid employees to these forums.

[Santa]

I sure do love Funzio adding more quality paid employees to these forums.
How very true.

[Caleb]

In the hopes that it will be helpful to others, I've created a document that attempts to merge Tramp Stamp's two economy threads along with some of his discussion points.

Follow this link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hwXWabpcJ5MArWjSy0-16Kbimbzjnq8xPAGcVD12BdI/edit

I didn't include the weekly economy comparisons or other people's posts. Hopefully, I didn't change any of the context or omit anything important by doing this.

[deuces]

bump :( .......

[kinghansen]

It's in the Best of the Best sticky thread... Crime City iOS Money Buildings.
When I try to download the file I get a security notification alerting me that a malicious user may be trying to take over my computer... Does anyone know if it is safe?

[Silvio]

It is a google docs spreadsheet. Turn off macros if you are worried. Just export it to excel. Any questions, ask away. Btw, oilers suck. :). Go flames!

[Xira]

You a calgarian as well? I am. I think we're screwed this year. It's so stressful going the games the last couple weeks...

[deuces]

I miss these updates, im going to do a 4 week update next sunday. I'll post it around 8pm pacific daylight time on sunday. Im not gonna do new people as i dont have data from them and i'm not looking to make this a big chore...if someone wants to do an econ thread with a bunch of people and put a ton of time into it i'd support that tho!

If you want your economy updated with new 4 week and 8 week totals, send me a PM on sunday sometime before 8pm pacific. (its 8:06pm pacific time right now) In the PM, include your current level and current hourly income.

These are the people i'll be doing 4 week numbers for:

Bruiser
jr
AppleMacGuy
stixx
alex
joeycool
bambino
Dudeman
Dorian
Amber
Keiser Soze
Barbie Girl
cooz
yeababy
Syntarias
xclusiv
Syn
qwikster
Crimer
Vander
madawgg
duder

And these are the names i'll be doing 8 week totals for:

g wiz
Alecs182
jaywalker
Ghost
fricco
yeababy
Aequitas
Crimer
alex
Dudeman
Bruiser
AppleMacGuy
Kaen
qwikster
xclusiv
jr
madawgg
joeycool
Barbie Girl
stixx
duder
Dorian

I'll post a remind saturday night if i remember too. I know some on there are retired but i just left them on in case they wanted to PM me their econ numbers or anything. If i should include anything else let me know.

[deuces]

I have ~17m in the bank, make ~7-8m/day, and have an upgrade finishing in 17.5 hours. I should have around 20m when thats finished. These are the next upgrades in reverse roi order (church lvl 4 is the best roi upgrade, loft lvl 7 the worst), 2 of each. I'm goodfella so im using tycoon figures below.

Building/next level/payout/hourly/increase in hourly/upgrade cost/build time/ROI


Loft 7 $375,100 $31,258.33 $9,075.00 $16,485,890 115.84 1,932.47
Beachside Inn 5 $110,000 $4,583.33 $1,432.29 $2,527,838 32.16 1,797.05
Upscale Club 2 $180,400 $7,516.67 $3,758.33 $6,680,000 18.00 1,795.38
Wedding Chapel 5 $77,440 $25,813.33 $8,066.67 $14,000,333 40.50 1,776.08
Pirate Tavern 2 $220,000 $27,500.0 $13,750.00 $23,380,000 31.20 1,731.56
Movie Theater 8 $143,220 $11,935.00 $3,125.83 $5,071,580 98.48 1,720.95
Rock Cafe 3 $423,500 $35,291.67 $15,125.00 $25,100,100 27.00 1,686.51
Church 4 $290,400 $12,100.00 $4,400.00 $6,986,194 24.58 1,612.35

I'm thinking church level 4 (other one is already upgraded) dropping me to around 13m, but i'll be back to 20m by the time is finishes 24.5 hours later. Any comments on what to do then? I dont have anything to build, i'll be buidling 500k turrets every 2 days, wont really affect anything. I could do the level 8 MT upgrade which will take 4 days and leave me with 43m in the bank when its over, letting me do back to back rock cafe level 3 upgrades...Orrr i guess i could build a nightclub, dont think im really ready for that tho, as i want to build both back to back and take then to level 2 back to back as well which is gonna cost 215m.

This would usually be a PM to tramp, but if anyone has any thoughts lemme know.

[kinghansen]

How do I turn off macros? Sorry Im not very computer savvy...

[deuces]

neither am i lol, i just c/p'd from the spreadsheet.

[duder]

I miss this thread. Where are folks' economies doing these days?

I'm at: $171,918
My level 21 econ breaks down thusly:

Frequency_$/hr___%
0:05_____5544__3.2
1:00______303__0.2
3:00____11180__6.5
6:00____97986_57.0
8:00_____1705__1.0
12:00___50909_29.6
18:00____1506__0.9
24:00____2079__1.2
48:00_____706__0.4

Top 10 Buildings:
Nightclub lvl2: 96,250 (56% of econ)
Loft lvl5 x 2: 15,125 each (8.8% each)
Movie Theater lvl7 x2: 8,809 each (5.1% each)
Laundromat lvl8 x2: 2,772 each (1.6% each)
Ice Cream lvl10 x2: 2,613 each (1.52% each)
Italian Restaurant lvl7: 1,591 (0.9%)
Total: $156,478 (91%)

Type A: 168,947 (98.2% across 33 buildings)
Type B: $2,971 (1.73% across 14 buildings)

[mnju_03]

I want to do this but, I'm fighting the urge...for now... for now...

[jaywalker]

$12 100 | 20,74% | 2 x Loft
$8 525 | 14,61% | 2 x MT
$4 529 | 7,76% | 2 x Ice Cream
$3 748 | 6,42% | 2 x Italian

03:00 | $11 071 | 18,98%
12:00 | $21 265 | 36,5%
24:00 | $11 809 | 20,2%

$58 335

Last week progression 33,02%

[deuces]

I miss these updates, im going to do a 4 week update next sunday. I'll post it around 8pm pacific daylight time on sunday. Im not gonna do new people as i dont have data from them and i'm not looking to make this a big chore...if someone wants to do an econ thread with a bunch of people and put a ton of time into it i'd support that tho!

If you want your economy updated with new 4 week and 8 week totals, send me a PM on sunday sometime before 8pm pacific. (its 8:06pm pacific time right now) In the PM, include your current level and current hourly income.

These are the people i'll be doing 4 week numbers for:

Bruiser
jr
AppleMacGuy
stixx
alex
joeycool
bambino
Dudeman
Dorian
Amber
Keiser Soze
Barbie Girl
cooz
yeababy
Syntarias
xclusiv
Syn
qwikster
Crimer
Vander
madawgg
duder

And these are the names i'll be doing 8 week totals for:

g wiz
Alecs182
jaywalker
Ghost
fricco
yeababy
Aequitas
Crimer
alex
Dudeman
Bruiser
AppleMacGuy
Kaen
qwikster
xclusiv
jr
madawgg
joeycool
Barbie Girl
stixx
duder
Dorian

I'll post a remind saturday night if i remember too. I know some on there are retired but i just left them on in case they wanted to PM me their econ numbers or anything. If i should include anything else let me know.

Bump. Anyone who wants to, send me a PM with your current level, current income, and in game name. I'll post the update in ~12 hours. If you have your own numbers and want to be on the list, PM me your in game name, level, income 8 weeks ago, income 4 weeks ago, and income today. If you want to calculate the increase help yourself!! :)

[jaywalker]

5th of March

$22 837




12th of March
$29 553

29,32% Increase


19th of March

$39 877
35,03% Increase


26th of March
$53 046
33,02% Increase


1st of April
$67 490
27,22$ Increase



My income will be $68 709, in 12H , due to upgrade finishing up.
I usually do this on monday morning (aprox 12 hours from now):

Jaywalker
Level 97

4 week gain 195,25%

Not too shabby for 8 weeks of game time :)

[deuces]

Not a whole lot of response, but fun anyways.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/pocktdeuces/ScreenShot2012-04-02at15717PM.png

I can do this level of effort weekly if people want, its not too much work since everyone PMs me their info. If people want to keep doing this let me know.

[mnju_03]

I did but, you told me to do it myself...didn't you? lol

[deuces]

was expecting more interest, and didnt want to take on adding a bunch of people. Have no problem adding you tho if you want to PM me your income now and then again next sunday.

edit: everyone having to do most of the work themselves definitely makes this less exciting haha.

[mnju_03]

was expecting more interest, and didnt want to take on adding a bunch of people. Have no problem adding you tho if you want to PM me your income now and then again next sunday.

edit: everyone having to do most of the work themselves definitely makes this less exciting haha.


lol... Ok I'll be PMx you...

[xclusiv]

Bump. Anyone who wants to, send me a PM with your current level, current income, and in game name. I'll post the update in ~12 hours. If you have your own numbers and want to be on the list, PM me your in game name, level, income 8 weeks ago, income 4 weeks ago, and income today. If you want to calculate the increase help yourself!! :)

hey are the numbers in? i notcied that i was included in the 8week list thanks

[Ohaithere]

Hey sorry I am on holiday but I am Alex and I am now in 110k income an hour, could I be added please? Level 126 now and away till Thursday if anyone wants to add me, 34k def

[G Wiz]

was expecting more interest, and didnt want to take on adding a bunch of people. Have no problem adding you tho if you want to PM me your income now and then again next sunday.

edit: everyone having to do most of the work themselves definitely makes this less exciting haha.hey deuces, are we mobbed up in game?

[deuces]

hey are the numbers in? i notcied that i was included in the 8week list thanks
I didnt look through everyone and am not mobbed with everyone, if you want to PM me your numbers i can include you.


Hey sorry I am on holiday but I am Alex and I am now in 110k income an hour, could I be added please? Level 126 now and away till Thursday if anyone wants to add me, 34k def

added.


hey deuces, are we mobbed up in game?

Is your mafia code the same it was before? I think so if yes.

[G Wiz]

it has changed

[deuces]

Will add then!

[deuces]

Idk how often people want these done...I can do weekly? Lotta PMs but if people wanna do weekly thats cool by me.

Pm me by ~8pm pacific time, and i'll get it up some time that night. Might be late, going to have a full schedule tomorrow.

edit: oh ya, when you PM me this week tell me if you have the 10% bonus on your income or not. (goodfella/tycoon.) Tramps was always done with the 10% bonus because apparently when you view mafia or maybe all profiles, your 10% bonus is added. (info from tramp)

[Ohaithere]

I think weekly is a good idea if it's not too much effort, thanks again

[jaywalker]

5th of March
$22 837



12th of March
$29 553
29,32% Increase


19th of March
$39 877
35,03% Increase


26th of March
$53 046
33,02% Increase


1st of April
$67 490
27,22% Increase


8th of April
$95 481
41,47% Increase



Main reason for the big jump would be 2 x Rock Cafe

[deuces]

Only have info on 5 people so far, send PMs if you want in!

[mnju_03]

Crap I forgot about this, getting picture and PMx now...

[Santa]

Seems like a lot of work. I'll spare deuces some of his time...

Maybe later in my game will I start to track my economy... Definitely not now. :)

[deuces]

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/pocktdeuces/ScreenShot2012-04-09at121252PM.png

[jaywalker]

Rock Cafe
$20 167
21,12%


Loft
$16 133
16,9%


MT
$12 503
13,1%


Italian
$4 415
4,62%


Dominican
$4 217
4,42%




Rock Cafe 1 & 1
Loft 3 & 4
MT 6 & 6
Italian 9 & 7
Dominican 5 & 3

Oh I forgot level.. I'm level 105 now :)

[Ohaithere]

Thx deuces, Jay I will overtake you soon! Hopefully...

[jaywalker]

Thx deuces, Jay I will overtake you soon! Hopefully...

What is your ingame name? Invite me :)
If I hit 113 before next week, I'll get 2 x Pirate Tavern, that should bring another big boost to my economy. I do feel like I'm cheating with gold buildings though. Wtihout it, I would only have made a ~12% increase this week.

[Ohaithere]

I'm Alex, chose it before I realise it was a default name, will try and find my code, or pm me yours. Built my first gold building yesterday, one gent club :D maybe I can get nc before next week

219 836 486

[deuces]

Bumb, another update in ~10 hours.

[Ohaithere]

I will hopefully top it, bought my first gold buildings this week along with the long awaited night club :)

[jaywalker]

I will hopefully top it, bought my first gold buildings this week along with the long awaited night club :)

I had a really low increase this week :/

[Ohaithere]

I'm away all next week, will try and get on once or twice, my nc finishes it's build and a loft upgrade in 70 hours

[jaywalker]

Just finished a MT 7 upgrade, and now I'm doing 2 level 5 lofts back to back. But I'll hit 113 soon and build two pirate taverns, I think... Don't really like the 8h, but it is a nice income :)

[Ohaithere]

I'm 39g odd gents club number two I think in two weeks I will get one and a second nc, or maybe level 2 nc and gents :p saving atm

[jaywalker]

12th of March
$29 553
29,32% Increase


19th of March
$39 877
35,03% Increase


26th of March
$53 046
33,02% Increase


1st of April
$67 490
27,22% Increase


8th of April
$95 481
41,47% Increase


15th of April
$104 781
9,74% Increase

[Ohaithere]

Im up by 50.5 percent, thanks to the aqusition of my first gold building and the start of my nc, unless the nc shows after completion, in which case next week will be ok. Last week I was up 35 percent

[deuces]

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee130/pocktdeuces/ScreenShot2012-04-15at110605PM.png

[moparland]

Where is the actual plan that tramp used? Looked around a bit and cant find it

[Caleb]

Where is the actual plan that tramp used? Looked around a bit and cant find it

Look for his economy threads in the Best of the Best sticky thread, or in the doc in my sig...

[deuces]

Bump, this is easy with so few people! :)

[jaywalker]

12th of March
$29 553
29,32% Increase


19th of March
$39 877
35,03% Increase


26th of March
$53 046
33,02% Increase


1st of April
$67 490
27,22% Increase


8th of April
$95 481
41,47% Increase


15th of April
$104 781
9,74% Increase


22nd of April
$139 994
33,61% Increase

[enahs1]

Can someone help me with my economy? It sucks... Thanks

[mothergoose]

I have been enjoying the conversation thus far and has given me more tips on how to futher improve my economy. I planned my infustructure based on perceived ROI (basically concentrated everything on the two laudromats and proceeded from there) and not on any stats, but I seem to be following ROI fairly well anyway.

What I suggest be added to the conversation is that with correct planning, the income that you lose can be diminished greatly by ungrading while you are sleeping, especially with an upgrade that is going to take 6+ hours to complete. Because truthfully as was stated previously, that income is lost income already, but it is not time wasted because the next time that you are able to play you will begin earning the new income.

Just a thought.

[Bala82]

Can someone help me with my economy? It sucks... Thanks

Well you need give us information such Level, What buildings you have so we can help you :)

[Theo222]

Ice cream shops
T-shirt stands
House
Fish store


456-403-246

[BOS]

Ice cream shops
T-shirt stands
House
Fish store


456-403-246

Go to the "add mafia" subsection of the forum. This is not the place. Thanks

[BomberAl123]

The correct way to compare upgrades is to realise that, as you're paying a lump sum now in order to receive a stream of known cashflows in the future, you're essentially buying an investment with bond characteristics. Specifically, you're paying now to receive a series of negative cashflows, which represent the loss of earnings during the upgrade, followed by a series of positive cashflows in perpetuity when the upgrade is complete, which represent the increase in income.

Fortunately, the procedure for comparing the profitability of bonds is well-developed. This involves, for each investment (upgrade or purchase), calculating the single interest rate such that the discounted value of its cashflows is equal to its upgrade price. The upgrade that has the highest interest rate will be the best investment. The formula for doing this is as follows:

Where:

Co = Old cashflows
Cn = New cashflows
r = interest rate
Pn = Payout time (e.g. for Pawn Shop: P1 = 24, P2 = 48 etc. Note that we assume that the upgrade begins just after a payout)
T = Upgrade time

Then:

Upgrade price = - Co/((1+r)^P1) - Co/((1+r)^P2)... - Co/((1+r)^Pn)... + ((Cn-Co)/r)/((1+r)^T)

To explain:
-Co: are the old cash flows that you're missing out on
(Cn-Co)/r: is the value of the increase in cashflows in perpetuity (the standard formula for valuing a perpetuity bond)
(1+r)^Pn and (1+r)^T: are the discount rates used to reflect that the cash flows you receive now (or if negative, that you're missing out on) are more important than the ones you will receive in the future

This formula cannot be rearranged as an expression of 'r'. It can only be calculated by a computer by iteration. Using Excel to achieve this, we would: (i) Project the (negative) discounted cashflows that we miss out on by using a series of IF( ) statements that reference a description of the upgrade's characteristics [the -Co/((1+r)^Pn) series]. (ii) Calculate the (positive) discounted value of the increase in cashflows in perpetuity [((Cn-Co)/r)/((1+r)^T)]. (iii) Sum the values of the first two steps. (iv) Use Goal Seek to discover the single interest rate such that the sum of those values is equal to the upgrade price. The upgrade or build with the highest interest rate is the best investment.

Of course, this is all rather complicated, but we can simplify the process by pretending that instead of forgoing a series of the old cashflows during the upgrade, we just forgo one big cashflow during the middle of it. This big cashflow is determined by:

- Co*((T/P)/2)
or: - Co*T/2P

Where: P = Payout period (e.g. 24 for Pawn Shop)

Its discounted value is then:

- (Co*T/2P)/((1+r)^(1+T/2))

Therefore the simplified formula is:

Upgrade price = - (Co*T/2P)/((1+r)^(1+T/2)) + ((Cn-Co)/r)/((1+r)^T)

To simplify the formula further we can value the perpetuity, (Cn-Co)/r, as if it starts now (i.e. there is zero build-time), but then to increase the deduction in the middle of the upgrade time so as to reflect that not only are you not getting the old cashflow, but you're actually not getting the new cashflow for that period either. The deduction is now: ((Cn-Co)+Co)*T/2P, which simplifies to Cn*T/2P. Therefore the formula is now reduced to:

Upgrade price = (Cn-Co)/r - (Cn*T/2P)/((1+r)^(1+T/2))

Note that, unless somebody can rearrange this formula to express it as a function of 'r', the Goal Seek function on Excel would still have to be used for each calculation. Running this manually for every build or upgrade would be quite onerous, so a macro or VBA code to automate this could be downloaded from the Internet.

In addition, a few things to consider with any strategy where you choose your upgrades based on a simple formula are:

i) It assumes all money can be invested. Remember that upgrading your building is just like making an investment in a bond: cost now for future gains. If you have lots of money in the bank earning nothing, then your priority will be looking to put it to work, and so you will accept lower rates in order to invest a greater proportion of the money. If you're trying to calculate the fastest way to gain a set level of wealth, perhaps for a big purchase, then there's no alternative but to model combinations of builds and upgrades.

ii) It assumes land is always free and available. If land is fixed or exhorbitantly expensive and we are considering new builds or the prospect of demolition, then we must focus on cashflow per square, and Co and Cn should be replaced with (Co/A) and (Cn/A), where A is the building area in tiles (e.g. 2x2 = 4 for Pawn shop).

iii) It assumes that this upgrade is the final one, and ignores the fact that one upgrade is just a bridge to another that may be much more profitable.

I hope you found this interesting or useful. If you did, then please add me!

857332745