Admins - is getting stats from the "player database" cheating or not?

[Green Drake]

BZ what is your definition of not happening for a long time?

[Dipstik]

A looser sense of the word is, by definition, not by definition.

I chuckled

[nikosuave]

And to whoever suggested that potential credit card numbers were stolen... That is another lack of common sense issue and/or ur imagination taking over. Gree never sees any credit card details as all transactions are handled by either apple or google.

[genaks]

And to whoever suggested that potential credit card numbers were stolen... That is another lack of common sense issue and/or ur imagination taking over. Gree never sees any credit card details as all transactions are handled by either apple or google.

Very true...

[(BF) Tuna]

A looser sense of the word is, by definition, not by definition.

From wikipedia
The*Jargon File defines hacker as "A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and stretching their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary."

Please realize there is more than one way to define a hacker. Thanks.

[(BF) Tuna]

And to whoever suggested that potential credit card numbers were stolen..

no one suggested this.

[bald zeemer]

From wikipedia
The*Jargon File defines hacker as "A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and stretching their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary."

Please realize there is more than one way to define a hacker. Thanks.

I was referring to your misuse of the word "definition". I couldn't care less what definition of "hacker" you choose to use.

no one suggested this.

It's hacking and the players involved need to be banned. In fact it's information theft and authorities need to be informed. We don't know what other info has been stolen. Maybe credit card info which resulted in illegal purchases.
Lawyer up, class action suit on the way!

Page 8.

It really, really seems like you're not reading anything in the thread, just shouting from your soapbox.

BZ what is your definition of not happening for a long time?

In this game 1 cycle old is history, 2 cycles old is ancient.

Obviously in some matters (ie, chasing down Chinese gold cheats) this doesn't hold, because of the nature of the event in question. But in terms of the potential benefits that data about your profile presents then anything not current is useless. Especially since the parts of the data used that aren't very public already (cash on hand, gold on hand) change significantly in short periods of time.

[(BF) Tuna]

Thanks for the lesson in semantics.. zzz

And, page 8 was yesterday's read (for myself at least). Pardon me for not retaining what some moron wrote.

This is not happening anymore, and has not been for some time.

Speaking for every player in the game does not help you make your point.

And again, just because you say it's altering it doesn't actually prove that it is. To date not a single person has said how this is actually occurring (as opposed to wild hypothesising about how it might - even though these effects are all identical to the effects of standard procedures for the majority of syndicates).

Had it not given the designer an advantage over the average player, it would have never been developed in the first place. So, by default it is altering the game experience, regardless as to whether the player who's data is being extracted is aware. I know that you know this. You are just a stubborn proponent who is unwilling to admit it.


Lastly... Had there been no advantage of extracting such data, the designer wouldn't have wanted to share it with others. (I could be mistaken, but I believe you were one of those who he wished to share it with...)

[Green Drake]

In this game 1 cycle old is history, 2 cycles old is ancient.

Obviously in some matters (ie, chasing down Chinese gold cheats) this doesn't hold, because of the nature of the event in question. But in terms of the potential benefits that data about your profile presents then anything not current is useless. Especially since the parts of the data used that aren't very public already (cash on hand, gold on hand) change significantly in short periods of time.

I will concede that the information obtained is obsolete at this point but your stating that this has not been practiced for some time is misleading. To me mid July is recent history. If it was still being used just over a month ago i find it hard to believe that it was just suddenly dropped.

[bald zeemer]

It's been out of use for pretty much as long as it was in use.

As we've been saying, there is little to no benefit in using it, which is why it got dropped. It had been used in the cheater chat, but the negatives outweighed the positives and it was abandoned. The key point that I think has often been missed in this thread (especially by anyone who has ever used the phrase "proponents of the database") is that everyone acknowledges that there are severe concerns with it from a privacy standpoint, and that it more or less gives everyone a sour taste in their mouth. The fact that it doesn't actually do much is why those of us saying it's a non-issue are happy to believe (or, in some cases, know for a fact) that it is no longer in use. To those 'on the outside', so to speak, there is apparently the view that this thing is powerful. From that starting point I can see how you would imagine it's still being used. But the starting point is the issue.

[Green Drake]

At this point it is a privacy issue for me. It is my business how much I have spent on this game. For you to say that it is no longer being used is just simply untrue. You may not be but others still are. The fact is that a member of a top syndicate used some sort of program to intercept and post my information publicly as recently as July.
The fault lies with gree that they are somehow unable to encrypt this data but it also lies with anyone that has utilized this method. I'm glad that you can admit that it left a sour taste in your mouth and maybe you are only referring to the database that was compiled. I don't know for sure.
What I do know is that the methods that were developed to obtain this information are still very much in use. And if it gets ignored it will continue.

[(BF) Tuna]

@BZ
I'll give you this... If it was designed by a high-end player and was only distributed to high end players, then it would be of little use because, as you've said, you pretty much all know each others stats etc etc... To where it would be obsolete. Unfortunately, you can't say for sure, with 100% certainty, that it hasn't found its way to various other players who could still be using it to their benefit. So please stop speaking for the entirety of this game's players.

It has also been said that, what the average player does in game on a regular basis (be it during Syndicate War or just robbing someone) is roughly the equivalent of what this decyphering program does... The major difference being that, this decyphering does not require the use of in-game resources such as health or stamina. (Oh, and it tells the user a whole bunch of other information that would otherwise be unknown to the average player = advantage... <--- Fact)

Now, I know that most of you top-ranking guys are in syndicates where a lot of intel-sharing is going on.. Which of course would be a more efficient way of avoiding scouting attacks during Synd Wars (granted, Tier3 gold spenders and above, don't really care). However, for a potential syndicate with no intel-sharing sources & no heavy gold spenders willing to waste gold on scouting... This decyphering app could easily turn a top500 team into a top250 team by circumventing the whole need for scouting.

The scenario above may be a "hypothetical" to you... But you're assuming that this program is no longer being used.

[bald zeemer]

The fault lies with gree that they are somehow unable to encrypt this data but it also lies with anyone that has utilized this method. I'm glad that you can admit that it left a sour taste in your mouth and maybe you are only referring to the database that was compiled. I don't know for sure.

I'm pretty sure I've said at least half a dozen times that I never liked the idea. My points were simply that I don't believe it violates TOS (as it currently stands) and I don't believe it is an issue of enough import to deserve response from Gree.

At this point it is a privacy issue for me. It is my business how much I have spent on this game. For you to say that it is no longer being used is just simply untrue. You may not be but others still are. The fact is that a member of a top syndicate used some sort of program to intercept and post my information publicly as recently as July.

On the 'current' thing, that's just a terminology issue, then. I consider being used in July, but not since, as "not currently in use". Further statements by myself of "not current" are not intended to imply that it was not being used in July.

On the privacy issue I think the fault definitely lies with Gree and their lax standards on privacy/sensitive info in general. As I've said earlier in the thread I don't think this is actually Gree's #1 poor practice on privacy, but I would certainly like them to fix this up at the same time that they fix up the insane amounts of data they attach to tickets.

The info in tickets can be used nefariously against someone in real life (and in game - cf baddad's scenario). That is clearly the bigger issue.

Now, I know that most of you top-ranking guys are in syndicates where a lot of intel-sharing is going on.. Which of course would be a more efficient way of avoiding scouting attacks during Synd Wars (granted gold spenders don't really care). However, for a potential syndicate with no intel-sharing sources & no heavy gold spenders willing to waste gold on scouting... This decyphering app could easily turn a top500 team into a top250 team by circumventing the whole need for scouting.

There are intel sharing groups at your level. They recruit publicly for syndicates to participate. Relatively often, in fact.

t has also been said that, what the average player does in game on a regular basis (be it during Syndicate War or just robbing someone) is roughly the equivalent of what this decyphering program does... The major difference being that, this decyphering does not require the use of in-game resources such as health or stamina.

It requires no stamina whatsoever to visit a hood, check the players profile, and rummage in their inventory. Doing this will give you the vast majority of the information that the database obtained. If you want collection cycles then just visit regularly and note when buildings come up. Again, requiring absolutely no stamina usage whatsoever. And taking pretty much the same time that repeat-bombardment via the data sniffer would take, were anyone to try to use it in this manner.

[(BF) Tuna]

You ignored the Synd War scouting thing by telling me that intel-sharing occurs at "my level". Don't ignore the program/database's potential advantages in a syndicate war. Okay?

And yes, you're right about traveling to a rival's city and... blah blah blah... You're wrong about the time it would take though. Plus skill point allocation.. I know you guys with million+ atk/def don't care... It is still an advantage to know these things that the average player would otherwise not know.

Also, if you don't see it as an issue and that you're positive it's obsolete & no longer in use.. Why are you still discussing this? Don't you have better things to do than go back and forth with the little fish in the pond?

Also have to add- For supposedly not being a proponent of this database, you sure know a lot about it. More than you're willing to tell I'd bet.

[BigMoney]

You ignored the Synd War scouting thing by telling me that intel-sharing occurs at "my level". Don't ignore the program/database's potential advantages in a syndicate war. Okay?

Could be wrong, but I thought to use it in a syndicate war, you'd need to hit the opposing player anyway to capture their info.

Edit: this is a really dumb argument, and this topic is 22 pages too long.