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Thread: understanding a handheald videogame as compared to military conflict

  1. #16
    Steady Scribe buster67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by partcrash View Post
    Actually mentioning "rules" and "third world countries" in the same context can be achieved only by sitting on your couch or on the can tapping a phone.

    There are no rules in a war. Actually there are as long as you are winning. Once you start losing or the thought of losing crosses your mind- there are no rules. And don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
    There are very clear rules for war as set out in the Geneva convention. The British armed forces also have very clearly defined Rules of engagement. I am sure that the armed forces of most countries that have signed up to the Geneva convention also have clearly defined rules of engagement. There will always be examples of people who feel the need to flout these rules as they seek to further their own, often selfish cause. These people, when caught, are prosecuted as war criminals as they have broken the rules (laws).


    As I said before this is just a game, but there are some here for whom it seems to be all consuming and will spout whatever random bile they chose to justify their actions.

  2. #17
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    Situational Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by partcrash View Post
    Actually mentioning "rules" and "third world countries" in the same context can be achieved only by sitting on your couch or on the can tapping a phone.

    There are no rules in a war. Actually there are as long as you are winning. Once you start losing or the thought of losing crosses your mind- there are no rules. And don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
    This is a classic example of "the ends justify the means". Yes in every human endeavor there are examples of both the best and the worst people are capable of. Some are willing to do "whatever it takes" to win and this is easier to justify through a keyboard rather than face-to-face.

    I don't play in the upper stratus of the game so I do not know what happened or who knew what. I do know we all have a moral compass, or character if you prefer. If your person compass allows you to justify acting in an unethical manner, costing people money and satisfaction, all in the framework of a game, then so,be it.

    All I know is this would make you the type of person I would want no where near my family. If a person cannot be trusted in the small things, they cannot be trusted in all things. Hope the "win" was worth it.

  3. #18
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    For u to say it is not a war is silly the name of the game is modern warfare and the event is a world domination event and act like sup is the only team to ever send a spy into another team would be ridiculous. I am not in sup or am I saying the guys actions were right. What I am saying is dont act all shocked when other teams have done the same thing to avoid sup

  4. #19
    Steady Scribe buster67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09231982 View Post
    For u to say it is not a war is silly the name of the game is modern warfare and the event is a world domination event and act like sup is the only team to ever send a spy into another team would be ridiculous. I am not in sup or am I saying the guys actions were right. What I am saying is dont act all shocked when other teams have done the same thing to avoid sup
    Just because the title of the GAME is Modern War doesn't stop it still being a GAME. This game will not give you PTSD on your couch.......lol it might give you RSI through excessive tapping.

  5. #20
    Articulate Author Jaebee's Avatar
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    Very well said Robespierre! And MadAtWorld, I'm with you 100%. As a fellow veteran, I found it absurd what a few were saying in the Bay of Pigs thread in reference to "war" and rules or a lack there of. A whole generation of veterans were ostracized for the perceived violations of the "rules of war". (I.e. Baby killers, etc) and while there probably were some who violated said rules, the blanket statement went on to disparage all the fellow servicemen with a guilt by association mentality in that era. So yes, the are most definitely rules when it comes to war.

    This is a war GAME. The word "war" is an adjective describing the type of game...that is all, nothing more.
    Once upon a time led a Top 25 Faction, now...

  6. #21
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    Hope from your wise words?...

    Robespierre,

    That was a splendid post, thank you. You must have read my “how the lion was slain by a rat” post – my first on this forum. I am glad it triggered your writing such wise words. I was surprised and a little saddened to see CJ locking the "Cuba and the bay of pigs" thread which I had posted my story in, considering it had been viewed by so many who were enjoying a vigorous debate on this game’s ethics. At least CJ did not delete the thread, so it’s still there to read. I hope as many people see this thread with your excellent post – the best written I have seen to date.

    I joined Ferr early on as I saw him as a champion of sane, fair and honourable behaviour in this game. Ripper has upheld those principles (question mark over sane maybe!) as our leader in TKO admirably against increasingly dirty tactics from our competitors. Ferr and Ripper are two very different personalities with the same high standards of ethics. I have played this game along side them because I feel safe I am in a team who will always do the right thing. My comrades and fellow officers feel the same I think.

    However this last outrage at the hands of SUP and their pawn, SUP RULES has disgusted us so much I doubt many of us will continue. Panzer, Bendover, Spartan Stars, Flynn, Chang, Shiz and others have already added “retired” to their names. I and many others might well be joining them. Without playing alongside Panzer et al this game will be a lot less enjoyable for me.

    My main reason for retiring though lies with Gree’s attitude over these vial tactics by SUP. Gree seem to condone them and have replied to my colleagues' numerous tickets calling for fair play with smug “too bad, your problem, not ours” responses. I am not holding my breath for Gree to change their stance on this as it comes right from the top.

    I have had one big question about SUP or PUN for a long time now. There must be some bad apples in their faction for all these dirty tactics to take place. I don’t know their names nor do I care. But much more importantly there must be some great people in SUP too, who believe in honourable fair play as we do. Who don’t condone such unpleasant bullying. Who want to enjoy the game and like winning. Who stay in SUP because its the best return on their real money investment to be with the number 1 team as they always get the best prizes and boosts – I don’t blame them for that at all.

    There seem to be lots of factions with players showing SUP in their names. I assume they have SUP in their names as a badge of honour and wear it with pride. I would be amazed if they all know what unethical unpleasant tactics they are celebrating by having SUP in their names. I think the vast majority are decent people like we are who have no clue how sick SUP has become.

    So here is my question: Are there any honourable decent people in SUP1 and 2 who are as appalled by what their colleagues have done as we are? If so they might consider leaving out of principle and either starting a decent faction or joining another with the right set of principles.

    If I and my comrades see some of SUP making a stand against this thuggish deeply unpleasant behaviour and leaving, it just might restore some of our faith in this game. Then all of us together can work with Gree on trying to make this a game with a set of rules which encourage fair, fun play. And all of us together can ignore the few bad apples in SUP left behind to count their shabbily won trophies.

    With hope,

    JoanneTKO

    PS I agree about the medals – I am not even trying this time around – first MW event I won’t complete since I started playing the game

  7. #22
    Articulate Author Archer59's Avatar
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    By accepting "former" SUP members, wouldn't you be opening yourself up to the same betrayal that initiated this thread? I understand not every player in SUP is......as bad as their leadership appears to be, but a top faction sure would be taking a risk bringing them on board...."fool me once....."
    MW: 723 733 538 / 766 013 376 / 837 581 025
    MW: Faction 48th TFW 326 189 720[/SIZE][/FONT

    Maxed bonuses: Output, building defense, health regen, all defense, Infantry, Ground Attack, Air Attack and Sea Attack.

    Try Empires and Allies...you actually get to control attacks and need to use strategy!

  8. #23
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    At one time there were honourable folks playing the game, many were part of Team Pirate....

    Then there was Pirate United Nation who merged with Super something or other and that seems to be where things went off the rails.

    The business of a spy in the midst of a team of players is hardly new, in fact the best move I ever saw was when Fabio infiltrated a rival group and pretty much gutted them. This by the way was long before WD and was brilliant.

    This on the other hand lacked the finess of that move and just seemed to be a very cowardly way to cheat another group of players out of a fair fight. Oh and I would bet that had someone pulled this on SUP Gree would be fixing the issue instantly.

    In terms of using SUP as a prefix, seems to me to now be a tainted badge of shame which now paints all of their members many of whom are really outstanding people I call friends and that is probably the saddest part of this whole sad tale.
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  9. #24
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    The bottom line is that no matter what faction you may or may not be part of, how you play the game reflects who you really are. If you choose to justify a "win at all costs" approach then no amount of discussion will change your views. If you can face the mirror then more power to you.

    The larger issue in my view is that the perception of unfair administration of the game has developed. Once the seeds of doubt are sown only clear communication from Gree can correct it. This is what so many players who enjoy the game are crying out for.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer59 View Post
    By accepting "former" SUP members, wouldn't you be opening yourself up to the same betrayal that initiated this thread? I understand not every player in SUP is......as bad as their leadership appears to be, but a top faction sure would be taking a risk bringing them on board...."fool me once....."
    We are not even a top faction but we denied a request by a former SUP member just because he had SUP in his name. The trust level has been broken and I will not allow anyone with SUP affiliation in our faction. The actions of a few are hurting all your members

  11. #26
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    Excellent points soonerjic.
    Modern War
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    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
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    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
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  12. #27
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    [QUOTE=JoanneTKO;1135861]Robespierre,

    If I and my comrades see some of SUP making a stand against this thuggish deeply unpleasant behaviour and leaving, it just might restore some of our faith in this game. Then all of us together can work with Gree on trying to make this a game with a set of rules which encourage fair, fun play. And all of us together can ignore the few bad apples in SUP left behind to count their shabbily won trophies.

    With hope,

    JoanneTKO


    I will suggest you to not rely on such unrealistic hope.

  13. #28
    Master of Musings
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    Joe, you obviously have a selective memory. I have screenshots of how putting player x into gsf went down from both you and Ben. As I have mentioned in the past, player x tends to share with everyone, so I also have emails of parts of his end of the conversation. You did place player x in gsf with the intention of using him to declare, and prepared your team to face gsf. The bad part was that it failed as player x turned on you and did not follow through, which upset you greatly. It was not to expose anyone, than gsf to having to face who you wanted them to face. I also have where it was mentioned you got your man to declare in the Netherlands. You have had forced decalres for at least five wds that I know of. Are you that incompetent, are we that good? If I wanted I could have set it up to face tko in every single battle in that case. We have maneuvered over and over to try to face you heads up, but it's very difficult, as you try your best to avoid us. All we want to do is face the best that's avaible to us in the game. You mentioned in a previous post to face you heads up. Please, lets do. We would be happy to do so. But lets not act the the innocent in all this. You now want to call names for something that you did do, or at least make a very good faith effort to do,and finally did accomplish at least in one case. You have accepted info, emails, etc from different people in our group. Didn't make us happy, but it's just part of the Intel gathering that has become common place in the game. I don't fault you for that. We have had people press the button for us too, including this time. You don't see us coming here crying about it. Was that planned? I'm sure that will be denied, just as your explanation for what player x was doing in gsf. You do seem to have an excuse for everything. Nice and convinenent. The reality is I've heard from you and through others, all the real reasons why ferr/ tko has never won an event. Everyone but you and the trolls know it's nothing more than the obvious. Ferr/ tko has come her since the early days proclaiming their imminent triumphs, their reasons for lack of such, their excuses, and naming us as dark, evil, etc. ferr actually beat us in one battle, our only real loss ever. I could give the reasons for that, but dosnt matter. Ferr won that battle and we did not cry one tear. Very loss for you has had an excuse, something we have done. You would be right in that basic thought at least. We just spend more time, and money, and energy to accomplish our wins. We don't need to wait on new bonuses that we think our opponents won't also be able to purchase, in order to win.

  14. #29
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    JoanneTKO,

    Sorry your forum days were so short lived. I expect by now you will have been banned. You see, Gree has a policy against mentioning in another thread the contents of a locked one. I should know. Don't worry, you'll likely be allowed to post again. Long after the MW community has moved on to 15 or 20 more things worthy of outrage. Best of luck.

  15. #30
    Articulate Author Jaebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed ump View Post
    Joe, you obviously have a selective memory. I have screenshots of how putting player x into gsf went down from both you and Ben. As I have mentioned in the past, player x tends to share with everyone, so I also have emails of parts of his end of the conversation. You did place player x in gsf with the intention of using him to declare, and prepared your team to face gsf. The bad part was that it failed as player x turned on you and did not follow through, which upset you greatly. It was not to expose anyone, than gsf to having to face who you wanted them to face. I also have where it was mentioned you got your man to declare in the Netherlands. You have had forced decalres for at least five wds that I know of. Are you that incompetent, are we that good? If I wanted I could have set it up to face tko in every single battle in that case. We have maneuvered over and over to try to face you heads up, but it's very difficult, as you try your best to avoid us. All we want to do is face the best that's avaible to us in the game. You mentioned in a previous post to face you heads up. Please, lets do. We would be happy to do so. But lets not act the the innocent in all this. You now want to call names for something that you did do, or at least make a very good faith effort to do,and finally did accomplish at least in one case. You have accepted info, emails, etc from different people in our group. Didn't make us happy, but it's just part of the Intel gathering that has become common place in the game. I don't fault you for that. We have had people press the button for us too, including this time. You don't see us coming here crying about it. Was that planned? I'm sure that will be denied, just as your explanation for what player x was doing in gsf. You do seem to have an excuse for everything. Nice and convinenent. The reality is I've heard from you and through others, all the real reasons why ferr/ tko has never won an event. Everyone but you and the trolls know it's nothing more than the obvious. Ferr/ tko has come her since the early days proclaiming their imminent triumphs, their reasons for lack of such, their excuses, and naming us as dark, evil, etc. ferr actually beat us in one battle, our only real loss ever. I could give the reasons for that, but dosnt matter. Ferr won that battle and we did not cry one tear. Very loss for you has had an excuse, something we have done. You would be right in that basic thought at least. We just spend more time, and money, and energy to accomplish our wins. We don't need to wait on new bonuses that we think our opponents won't also be able to purchase, in order to win.
    Really? So how many times have you (SUP1) and SUP2 declared at the same time in hopes of "facing the best that's available in the game"?
    Once upon a time led a Top 25 Faction, now...

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