understanding a handheald videogame as compared to military conflict

[Speed ump]

And ill have to say congrats to tKO for actually coming in third place in points and spending. Just looked at the results for Cuba and added the numbers for their three factions. I'm sure gsf appreciates you letting them take the position on the board without having to spend so much to actually get it, that was a very nice gesture.

[Hupernikomen]

Sad day when we lose players like Panzer.

We all should take notice.

Nothing points to sad state of affairs that his mess has caused more than losing honorable, helpful players like her.

[Agent Orange]

Thanks Speed for giving us your side of the story.

I think based on what I am seeing here both parties are at fault. Why this particular instance has exploded is because all players are frustrated with the lack of a fix of this issue regarding the declaration of war.

SUP is more vilified then normal because quite frankly they did not need to do this in such a malicious manner and because we all realize that you guys are the most powerful players in the game and the likelihood of you being unseated is remote indeed so why the need to do this.

That TKO didn't see it coming, that is their fault.

That Gree has not got their act together and plugged this loophole is beyond a doubt the root of most players frustration.

[Ysae Kaeps ASU]

So I take that as a no, you're not interested in seeing the proof of your factions actions. Guess you are already aware of it. I do love the way you translate what was said into something different, but I expected no less before I posted here.

Speed Ump and Co.

From any understanding of this, you and your group have, through your behaviour, brought MW to new lows. I would have hoped you would have been embarrassed by that to the point of doing something that costs you nothing.

Just apologise for your actions and tell all of us you regret them and nothing like this will ever happen again.

You have been given every opportunity yet you have done nothing but try and qualify it as being OK because someone at some stage in history may have done something remotely similar. Franky I'm not interested in any history.

You have tried to compare this behaviour with raiding and intelligence gathering. Can I remind you that those actions with which you attempt to compare, do not effect RL $ spend during the game.

You have tried to muddy the waters. Throw enough mud and eventually some of it will stick.

And finally you have become condescending.

You have had an opportunity to repair some of the damage you have caused to this community. You have recoiled from doing so.

I can't possibly understand how you could, even for a fleeting moment, consider this action righteous, justified or remotely funny.

Your advantage was to keep them from achieving a stats gain that you assure yourself of getting. That would assist you next 'war'. However, it really matters not what the reason was, it was just wrong.

Now be a 'just' citizen and unreservedly apologise to that team and the broader community and tell us you will never ever permit this behaviour again to save us more retirements and degrading of the game.

A leader would do that and a leader would tell us that it is wrong for anyone in any group in the future to attempt it. That's what someone of 'substance' who considers themselves a real leader would do.

Im not confident you have the moral fibre to do that.

And please remember, this is not war, it's a tap tap game where ppl use real cash.

[DTA-HOG]

I love it when all these high roller threaten to quit when they get "screwed" out of a prize. It makes me wonder how they got so far in life as to throw 10k a month into this game. We all know you aren't going anywhere. See you in WD Chile rich guys. And yes... I am jealous of your stats.

[JoanneTKO]

After playing and paying for this game for so long, I looked at the terms of service for the first time today. Two things stood out as particularly relevant to SUP’s sabotage tactics with us in Cuba, as described in the bay of pigs thread, namely:

You further agree not to: impersonate any person or entity or misrepresent your relationship to or affiliation with a person or entity.

In addition, you agree not to use the Service or any portion of the Service to commit action that Funzio considers, in its sole discretion, to be detrimental in any way to the Service or to any user’s enjoyment of the Service.

The saboteur SUP sent into Hot Toddy for Cuba impersonated himself as a friend, misrepresented himself and was extremely detrimental to our enjoyment of the Service. He managed to stop us getting 50 wins which we would certainly have got if he was not in our faction declaring 14 times against our wishes and dropping his defence from the minimum of 30 million to 13 million. We got 49 wins instead.

We all – like many others – spent a great deal of money chasing medals before Cuba – I spent a few thousand dollars in December on MW – much more than normal or ever before because of the medals. (Sorry – one of the rich ones I guess, DTA Hog!).

SUP’s successful sabotage of our safe plans to get 50 wins meant our investment in the medals before Cuba was meaningless.

We sent in many tickets to Gree during the event asking them to remove SUP RULES from our faction. They chose to ignore our requests. I am told they have removed “freeloaders” from SUP in the past during wars. If that is true, I am stunned. It appears Gree’s “sole discretion” is lacking except where SUP is in need of help. Until Gree takes a more balanced view of its legions of players outside SUP, I fear this game is doomed.

Right now I see no point whatsoever continuing to play and spend when the playing field is so uneven thanks to Gree’s stance on ethics and peculiar treatment of SUP. I have heard of literally hundreds of paying players planning to retire and ask for refunds from Apple in the last couple of days. So I guess my comrades and I are not alone.

Gree might still have time to do the right thing and stop this exodus, but my hope is waining.

[Mighty Min]

I love it when all these high roller threaten to quit when they get "screwed" out of a prize. It makes me wonder how they got so far in life as to throw 10k a month into this game. We all know you aren't going anywhere. See you in WD Chile rich guys. And yes... I am jealous of your stats.

Yes, those 'hi-rollers' whine, but never quit, keep supporting the servers' masters' menu... Some, actually did quit, some wising up even now as another wave of hardly explainable 'novelties' with those BS medals appeared...

SUP = Slaves Under Pressure - as they keep paying enormous amounts of $ for dead pixels to remain #1-2 next to their spiritless faction in boards...

I'm just curious as when GREEd drives all majority remaining outside of that nasty circle spenders, and there is NO chance to catch up in any possible way the stats of those clinging to top - what's the incentive for ANY newly started player to reach the level of spending the chased-out ones used to have, when there's not even remote possibility to catch up in strength?

[DTA-HOG]

I'm having fun with 2mil stats and have no intention of catching the 20mil+ guys. Being the best that I can be is just as rewarding as being #1 in my book. I'm pretty sure my faction feels the same way as #15 was a HUGE victory for us.

[DTA-HOG]

No need to apologize to me bro. I have no problem with you spending as much as you want to. Being on the gold program, I too have threatened to quit over getting screwed over in an event. I'm still here though. It sucks for sure but we all learn from our mistakes. I'll never blow gold again on an event unless I know EXACTLY how much gold will be required to reach the goal.

You do have valid points on your 2 statements in the ToS. I doubt you get very far though, as those statements are very vague and can be swayed at Gree's discretion at a time like this.

After playing and paying for this game for so long, I looked at the terms of service for the first time today. Two things stood out as particularly relevant to SUP’s sabotage tactics with us in Cuba, as described in the bay of pigs thread, namely:

You further agree not to: impersonate any person or entity or misrepresent your relationship to or affiliation with a person or entity.

In addition, you agree not to use the Service or any portion of the Service to commit action that Funzio considers, in its sole discretion, to be detrimental in any way to the Service or to any user’s enjoyment of the Service.

The saboteur SUP sent into Hot Toddy for Cuba impersonated himself as a friend, misrepresented himself and was extremely detrimental to our enjoyment of the Service. He managed to stop us getting 50 wins which we would certainly have got if he was not in our faction declaring 14 times against our wishes and dropping his defence from the minimum of 30 million to 13 million. We got 49 wins instead.

We all – like many others – spent a great deal of money chasing medals before Cuba – I spent a few thousand dollars in December on MW – much more than normal or ever before because of the medals. (Sorry – one of the rich ones I guess, DTA Hog!).

SUP’s successful sabotage of our safe plans to get 50 wins meant our investment in the medals before Cuba was meaningless.

We sent in many tickets to Gree during the event asking them to remove SUP RULES from our faction. They chose to ignore our requests. I am told they have removed “freeloaders” from SUP in the past during wars. If that is true, I am stunned. It appears Gree’s “sole discretion” is lacking except where SUP is in need of help. Until Gree takes a more balanced view of its legions of players outside SUP, I fear this game is doomed.

Right now I see no point whatsoever continuing to play and spend when the playing field is so uneven thanks to Gree’s stance on ethics and peculiar treatment of SUP. I have heard of literally hundreds of paying players planning to retire and ask for refunds from Apple in the last couple of days. So I guess my comrades and I are not alone.

Gree might still have time to do the right thing and stop this exodus, but my hope is waining.

[wwwmaverick]

Modern War espionage has been going on for a long time. Poone Pounder was successful at it, that's the difference. Guys are right in one since, it is a game and not war if you do not like the way it is played you don't have to play.

[Mr.Grumpy]

people have been screwing over their factions since the wars started. now that it's happened to a big spending faction maybe greed will do something about it. they didn't seem to care when it was only happening to the lowly free players.

[FLYNN37]

Great post genen. I think that puts things in a very clear light. Early in the game pun was criticized for playing as a team, now we all do. I don't criticize tKO for trying to do what they did with gsf, and I considered it part of the game play when I was aware of it. Obviously they did too. I have had a chance to look at a few things now, I noticed some players who threatened real and physical harm to this mole on his wall. I guess they know where he lives, who his girlfriend is, etc. wow. I know they had another mole who hit declare a while back, who was identified, and I have help them to attack as I have seen him. This is fine, you don't really kill someone in a or over a game. We beat up on their bases and avatars. Let's get a grip here. This is a game. It's a war game that is competitive and played by competitive people. Since I've been here I have always seen people wanting to define how other should play. As I have said before, gree determines the rules of this game. I do not, none of us do. As mentioned by genen, some people get upset over hitting boosts.why? They repair in seconds. People used to get mad very early in the game when you hit the same flag, when you hit a girl( don't play a war game of you want to use that one, plus I've found most women in this game really Arnt)A I wonder if the teams that tKO beat along the way, and broke their streaks, feel like tKO cost them real money. Or when tKO, or any faction faces another that's deep in a streak, and fights hard to try to keep their streak hoping, thereby causing the winning team to spend more, if that's the same feeling. Or when a second or third place team spends many millions more than fourth, if they cost them teams above them real money. Right when this event started Ben came to post how they were not driving up costs that we did it to ourselves. This was nothing more than a pr stunt. They split into three factions, so we would have to add the totals for the three to see what they really spent. The players at our level were all trying to achieve at least the 1500 goal, so that sets the min number from the start, then big battles tend to raise it further, among other strategic things. The numbers we spent to achieve first are what they are. It's our choice to do this, and not going to complain about it. Did the false declare we had this time cost us real money? Of course it did. It's part of the price of admission to the game. We know this and have to accept it if we want to achieve the goals we wish. There's easy ways to not cost real money, and we all know what they are.

I hadn't intended to enter the debate, but I can't sit quietly as BS oozes from this guy's mouth and he feigns outrage that this mess is spilling over into real life. His mole -- Poone Pounder -- told all of us that he would be vacationing in the Colorado mountains during the WD event and asked if anyone on the team would be in the area. I mentioned that I live in Denver and that my wife and I would be traveling through the mountains that weekend on our way to Aspen. He sent me his cell phone number, his lodging info (fake, as it turns out), and the mountain he was skiing at, and repeatedly asked me to take a little detour and meet him for a drink or a day of skiing. He said he would love to get a local's tour of the area, and really wanted to meet some of his new teammates.

Of course the skiing story was intended primarily to provide cover for the first day of the event, when he was patiently waiting for us to advance in our streaks - "I'm on the plane guys, signing off for a few hours," "Driving over Vail pass, can't access the game," "Internet is terrible in Breckenridge, can't get the game to load to put my boosts back up," etc. But it was also used for a much more sinister purpose; to try and inflict damage outside of the game, i.e. in real life. I'm sure he and the SUP leaders pulling the strings were salivating at the thought of reporting back to the SUP family that, as an added bonus, they managed to trick a TKO member into showing up with his wife to a bar or restaurant in Breckenridge.

Thankfully, our travel plans put us through the area late Saturday, after Mr. Poone had already outed himself. But I must admit that I seriously considered stopping by Breck to buy the guy a drink and welcome him to my state. And it is now painfully obvious that he would have followed this through to its conclusion had the timing not been an issue. Shame on me for being too nice. Lesson learned.

So, yeah, WOW. You sir (and your mole) are a piece of _______. Don't give me the "get a grip, keep it in the game" crap.

[Mr.Grumpy]

there are quite a few very good, intelligent posts in this thread.

flynn, i don't know what to say about your story. i'm speechless. this whole thing is very sad.