Read this, and it will change your life - new insights into the workings of K&D figh.

[cafedecoy]

ok.. ok so I exaggerated. This won't change your life... but it might change how you think about the game.

Currently, I'm working on a little "fun" project with Oyster and Bethmo to look more closely into the epic boss fight simulator. I'm still in the process of refining this, but the discoveries have been verified, and this "moved" me so much that I ended up cleaning my friend list, and dumped all the friends who are below level 80.... and I did this not out of spite or callousness, but because I realize that my presence on their friend list is not as valuable/effective as it looks.


OBSERVED PATTERNS (the figures will be somewhat imprecise, and qualitative, until the project is complete and vigorously tested)

1) YOUR KNIGHTS hold a huge key in dictating how powerful they are when they fight (adventure, pvp, arena, epic boss.. all of it) and it's MORE than what you see from the stats that glare at you (their attack/defense/hitpoints). Their effective "power" in their ability to attack and defend gets an ADDITIONAL FACTORED MULTIPLIER and this factor varies depending on:
* element advantage (which we all know)
* knight level (an additional penalty for levels less than 100, in ADDITION to what you see in their hit point and base attack/defense stats)

2) FURTHERMORE, your knights stats also indirectly affect their ability to "borrow" help from friends. Even if you had a set of most powerful friends, these friends can only help you with in a calculated range of your own knight's stats. In other words, the friends' stats become adjusted where their effective adjusted attack, defense, and hit points, all get capped which is a fairly complicated (but not unsolvable) function of your knights attack/defense/hit points... and I suspect (yet to be verified) the specific element advantage of your knights.

Consider, for instance, a scenario where you use exact same extremely powerful friends to perform exact same task that their ability to help gets capped. If you equip your knights with a more or less powerful armor, the friends' ability to help will become adjusted. If you level up your knights wearing the same armor, your friends' ability to help will become adjusted.

I find that for friends who have similar or weaker stats than your knights, the capping effect does not take place. However, for friends who seem to have extremely powerful stats compared to yours, their ability to help gets capped based on your knights' stats. So what does this "extremely powerful" stats mean? I'm working on that, but a good rule of thumb is stats that exceed yours by 25-50% or more (attack, defense, hit points).


SO WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN?

1. FOR MODERATE TO WEAK KNIGHTS HOPING TO GET STRONGER: Your ability to summon help or to fight effectively are limited by your own stats. So level up your knights, and level up your armors. The penalty for not doing this is not "linear" as it looks... it is "EXPONENTIAL"

ALSO, don't be too aggressive about looking for super duper powerful friends. Most likely, if you are a level 50 knight with moderate stats, a level 80 knight with legendaries will be able to help you exactly the same way as a level 756 knights with epics. ALSO, keep in mind that the "capping" stats apply to the basic stat numbers, which COMPLETELY EMPHASIZES how carefully considering element advantages help you so much (the 1.5x multiplier effect for 1 element advantage, and 2x multiplier effect for 2 element advantage applies AFTER the cap is imposed on the base stats, so the way to maximize help is to consider the element advantages).

2. FOR STRONG KNIGHTS (above lv 100) TRYING TO SPREAD GOOD KARMA BY BY BEFRIENDING WEAK KNIGHTS: Don't bother. Your epic armors, after considering the capping effect, is just as powerful to a level 40 knight as a maxed out avenger that a level 70 knight has. Also, considering that there's so few of you, help the people who will REALLY benefit from your generosity, those who have the ability to make an effective use of your high stats... that is, someone who is inferior to you, but not TOO MUCH (hence level 80 and above for me, and that's being conservative).

3. FOR GUILD MASTERS ADVISING THEIR NEW RECRUITS: Emphasize the need for them to level up as fast as they can, as their value as a guild war soldier grows exponentially as they level up. Maybe you can even encourage them by starting a challenge/competition within the guild!

and last but not least...

4. FOR THE POWERFUL KNIGHTS WHO CHOOSE TO ONLY DEAL WITH OTHER POWERFUL KNIGHTS (haha): I guess this thread isn't all that helpful to you, but if anyone gives you crap about being an elitist or selfish, then have them look at this thread

[Lord Of The Infernal]

Nice thread ^_^

[cafedecoy]

oops.. a typo in the title. :P How do I edit that??

[holygrale]

My brother has been playing for months and still hasn't beaten EB level 15, even when he used (as a friend) my main in an epic who can solo 15

[Lord Of The Infernal]

oops.. a typo in the title. :P How do I edit that??

Edit GO advance

[Dianish]

Good thread, but the capping is old news.

+1 for the explanation to beginners.

[cafedecoy]

but the capping is old news.

Ya, but we're gonna solve it... hopefully within a single point accuracy.... just because Hehe, stay tuned!

[KTran2013]

I think this is the only thing we're waiting for. Plainly for curiosity's sake! :]

Ya, but we're gonna solve it... hopefully within a single point accuracy.... just because Hehe, stay tuned!

[Oyster]

Great one! . I've updated The EB sim to include friends attack cap.
It seems that the max friends damage = your highest attack point armor knights damage (not highest damage) * 1.25.
I didn't check the element advantage on the friends knights though.

[penny pincher]

Nice thread

[Bumpain]

nice info, but i thoguht at one point they removed the capping no? or they just removed the capping on your friend's stats but the capping still applied in game mechanics

[GoogleEyes]

keep it up... like the idea about being able to calculate it in reverse. If you know how much damage you do, then you can tell the defence of the other knigh... well just because.

[Musketeer]

There's more than one reason to befriend weaker and stronger friends.

You only need 20-30 level 100+ friends to have all the friends you need to beat the epic boss, since you can only use 10 a day anyway. More than that is a waste. I tend to lean on a pool of the same 15-20 friends each week.

The remaining slots are just there as arena points fodder. I don't usually bother fighting them as the arena is such a tedious grind for so little reward, but if I want the extra points, they're there.

Meantime from the other perspective, your level 100+ knight may not be better than a level 40 knight to another level 40 knight, but the player knows you're a stick-around player, and you'll have appropriate armors worn most weeks if you're active. He could befriend a level 40 player in your place, but they're no better against the Epic Boss, and probably worse.

[cafedecoy]

There's more than one reason to befriend weaker and stronger friends.

You only need 20-30 level 100+ friends to have all the friends you need to beat the epic boss, since you can only use 10 a day anyway. More than that is a waste. I tend to lean on a pool of the same 15-20 friends each week.

The remaining slots are just there as arena points fodder. I don't usually bother fighting them as the arena is such a tedious grind for so little reward, but if I want the extra points, they're there.

Meantime from the other perspective, your level 100+ knight may not be better than a level 40 knight to another level 40 knight, but the player knows you're a stick-around player, and you'll have appropriate armors worn most weeks if you're active. He could befriend a level 40 player in your place, but they're no better against the Epic Boss, and probably worse.

Yes, I guess its a matter of perspective. But this is the way I see it: I have 129 friend slots. Around 30 of them are reserved for my guildmates, and around 50 of them are high ranked friends I can get help from. That leaves only 50 charity spots.

Now, I can help a lv 20 or a lv 80. A lv 20 knight can get help from me or from a lv 60 knight. A lv 80 knight can 't receive help from lv 60. In fact, as you level up, the pool of knights who can potentially help you decrease exponentially. In addition, these small handful of helpful knights are always overrun with friend requests, so its even more difficult to receive help (circumstantial evidence, but you never see a low level knight with a signature that says "friend list full -dont bother me" do you? ). So I prefer to maximize my effect of helping by selecting scenarios where I am most needed. If I decide to help a lv20, thats one less spot available for lv 80. Does that make sense?

[Dagobah]

Please note that even though I am over lvl 150, if I am wearing legendary+ and my friends have epics that they do the same damage despite different stats on the friend display.
Thus, if you only have 1 epic maxed and you are using 2 friends, you may be better off using that epic even if it is not the best for that boss.