Upcoming guild war is totally pointless unless you are one of the top 10 guilds.

[forcefed4door]

Hildigame has no friends!! Lol
Edit- except maybe the ones in his guild and on his "friends list"

[Bearsuo]

I think the bean-counters at Gree figured out that the top 15-20 guilds bought/spent 90% of the gems in the last war(s),

That's typical in market differentiation, the issue being that in most markets, you need the other segments. What was it, that managerial approach - fire the lowest 20% of employees, since they do disproportionate little work, see massive profitability gains... until, inexplicably, the new bottom 20% becomes as unproductive as the previous cohort. In theory, you can cut until you have one super productive employee (ha), but in practice, every cut reduces the organization substantially. Not that we're employees; but that a similar phenomenon appears to occur in consumer segments.

It's why Microsoft used to offer so many variants of Windows - a cheap version for customers who won't pay as much, and then a few price points until you reach Super Ultra Enterprise edition for people with money to blow. Get as much money from everyone as possible. In that case, market confusion set in. And in this case, what's the fun for killers and achievers to achieve first in a one place race? Or against people who have one tenth the stats they do?

and with Gree being desperate for money (see http://www.gamesinasia.com/gree-offe...s-osaka-office )

At the risk of being too revealing, this is what I find the most interesting part of this conversation. I may be a business major. I saw another article that DeNA, GREE, and someone else were larger revenue this year (combined) than the top 12 existing gaming brands (read: Nintendo, et cet) in Japan. But that GREE was facing a mandatory pivot (read: revenue stagnation). These games always attrition, so suggesting that GREE's playbook is causing attrition is silly. The question is, is it optimally exploiting customer willingness to buy on the attrition curve?

As for the rest of the players, who only bought/spent 10% of gems, who cares, they won't buy/spend anymore anyway, so why bother giving them anything to fight for.

Except some of us who are happy to spend a proverbial nickel now and then, a few sinks encouraging us to drop nickels helps empty the purse. I haven't opened a DPC in an age despite having keys, because there's nothing of value in there. The latest offer - open 11, get boosts - is enticing. I think if they just tuned up the lower sinks instead of making the frankly lousy upper sinks (yeah yeah, it's a casino in disguise) would be productive. But it appeals to the false scarcity behavioral short circuit, and clearly is generating some revenue, so it's not all bad. I'm a more conservative spender in game and would have dropped more on them if they A) didn't have such awful results B) had better floors ie, only two stars should be a two pack of fusion boosters c) the good results weren't one in a hojillion. Although hey, maybe it gets the whales to go big and that's enough.

Which is all to say thank you for the rare nugget of a great post to read.

[The Pale Rider]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Has drunk $35 bottles of bud and $15 bottles of water (Actually add a couple of zeros when you're buying bottles). Am I really the only one who's ever paid for bottle service in a club?

[Mr Spock]

I think the bean-counters at Gree figured out that the top 15-20 guilds bought/spent 90% of the gems in the last war(s), and with Gree being desperate for money (see http://www.gamesinasia.com/gree-offe...s-osaka-office ) they decided to make a big push to get more out of that top 15-20 guild members who will fight tooth and nail (and spend accordingly) for the top 10 spots because anything less than that is worthless.

As for the rest of the players, who only bought/spent 10% of gems, who cares, they won't buy/spend anymore anyway, so why bother giving them anything to fight for.

.

It does appear that the business model is failing for Gree and this is what most of us are complaining about...It wouldn't be that hard to correct...but every time the subject is broached the few existing p2w players that like the failing business model, go on the offensive and act weird and strange. Eunuchorn needs some kind of help...I am worried for that person...

[shawnk]

I think the people who are very defensive and cant see whats going on are the ones that are heavily invested in the game money wise. btw find this war very ironic lol "war of the damned"

[busteroaf]

It does appear that the business model is failing for Gree and this is what most of us are complaining about...It wouldn't be that hard to correct...but every time the subject is broached the few existing p2w players that like the failing business model, go on the offensive and act weird and strange. Eunuchorn needs some kind of help...I am worried for that person...

I think the people who are very defensive and cant see whats going on are the ones that are heavily invested in the game money wise. btw find this war very ironic lol "war of the damned"

In my case it isn't defensive/offensive because I'm a spender. Its defensive/offensive because people complain over and over about how crappy the game is, when they could vote with their wallets and just go to another game. You can see what is going on in this game whether you spend money or not. I know what the game does, how it works, this isn't my first go round with these types of games. I'm not blind to it, and I'm a spender.

And its because these games have been around for a while, and they are still alive and kicking. That is the other point. There are hundreds of these clones, (that continue to pop up daily mind you) that people like you and others have said "they're failing, people are quitting, they're losing money, they'll be out of business in 6 months." Six months later and they've got just as many, if not more players. So much for them failing and going out of business. Also, since it would be easy to correct the business model, how exactly would you go about doing it?

[Mr Spock]

In my case it isn't defensive/offensive because I'm a spender. Its defensive/offensive because people complain over and over about how crappy the game is, when they could vote with their wallets and just go to another game. You can see what is going on in this game whether you spend money or not. I know what the game does, how it works, this isn't my first go round with these types of games. I'm not blind to it, and I'm a spender.

And its because these games have been around for a while, and they are still alive and kicking. That is the other point. There are hundreds of these clones, (that continue to pop up daily mind you) that people like you and others have said "they're failing, people are quitting, they're losing money, they'll be out of business in 6 months." Six months later and they've got just as many, if not more players. So much for them failing and going out of business. Also, since it would be easy to correct the business model, how exactly would you go about doing it?

Buster I like the game and don't complain about spending the money or not.. Gree is laying off work force and closing their Osaka office..they are losing ground hence their business model sucks...my point has been that to be profitable u have got to get a ton of people to spend a little money each month.. Not a few people a lot of money...

An example of how to do this would be to have limited time armor releases with real fusion possibilities....make the combining process take time... the better the armor the longer it takes. So if you get a 1 star it might take 2 hours a 5 star might take 4 days of course u can hurry up the process with gems. Give it a realistic chance to happen and now you will have players trying to build fusion stars through the arena and then hurrying their fusions to see if they can get the armor before it goes away...you should also be able to flat buy them with gems and skip all the other nonsense, or take your chances on the chests. You need to make it possible to get through the fusion process...so people can earn a limited time armor for some palatable amount of money....this type of business model made Dragonvale the number 1 money making game in 2012 of all games including WOW....

This game has the potential to outperform Dragonvale but Gree has got to open its eyes....

[Tachycardia]

Gree is closing offices to concentrate on their North American development from their SF location.

[Mr Spock]

Gree is closing offices to concentrate on their North American development from their SF location.

Very weak performance last qtr.. Shutting down a number of games quietly during the summer...loss of market cap through loss of market share... Offering 200 employees early retirement... This is not a company that is kicking ass...I believe that Gree needs to rethink and retool some of what they do...

[Hildigam]

Hildigame has no friends!! Lol
Edit- except maybe the ones in his guild and on his "friends list"

You need more than that?!!?!?

[-Solo-]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

To me, people that drink $200 are idiots. Yeah, I understand the price increase for it being a club, etc....but you're still an idiot, either as an individual or a group, to spend that much for a crappy bottle of liquor. I've taken part in it before, but it doesn't change the fact that it was money best spent elsewhere. Probably what I can say about money spent in this game, too.

Oh well.

[drygores]

WOW. Over 6000 views in a day. Gotta be a record here. Gree got too greedy.

[busteroaf]

Buster I like the game and don't complain about spending the money or not.. Gree is laying off work force and closing their Osaka office..they are losing ground hence their business model sucks...my point has been that to be profitable u have got to get a ton of people to spend a little money each month.. Not a few people a lot of money...

An example of how to do this would be to have limited time armor releases with real fusion possibilities....make the combining process take time... the better the armor the longer it takes. So if you get a 1 star it might take 2 hours a 5 star might take 4 days of course u can hurry up the process with gems. Give it a realistic chance to happen and now you will have players trying to build fusion stars through the arena and then hurrying their fusions to see if they can get the armor before it goes away...you should also be able to flat buy them with gems and skip all the other nonsense, or take your chances on the chests. You need to make it possible to get through the fusion process...so people can earn a limited time armor for some palatable amount of money....this type of business model made Dragonvale the number 1 money making game in 2012 of all games including WOW....

This game has the potential to outperform Dragonvale but Gree has got to open its eyes....

Last I checked... Dragonvale doesn't have pvp. Does it? Having those limited time dragons is just a "look at me with my shiny _____ dragon that earns me 500 gold a minute!" You don't get some grand advantage over someone by being able to buy your gear. Being able to outright buy armors gives you an instant advantage over other players in this game. At least with the lottery and fusion options, everyone has the same RNG chance, not a case of who's wallet is fatter. And yes, you can spend money to win arena, but we all know the rewards are really nothing to brag about for the amount of gems spent, and you could spend $1000 and still never get anything good from chest while someone who spends $5 gets epics. But that is how a real lottery works too.

And your limited time armor releases? Those are called weekly bosses. But you want them in fusion, so you're banking on people being greedy and speeding up their armors each time they realize they're getting a crappy 1* or 2* fusion... what happens when you run out of fusion stones or armors to fuze with? Just buy more according to you. At least in the current system, you'd have to farm and then craft. Yes, you can speed up crafting every time and have instant armors, but you are still limited by how much you farm. You can't buy more potions, or fusion stones, and you can only use so many friends a day to help with farming. If having 50,000 gems in dragonvale is my only limit to getting a new dragon, where getting it or not doesn't affect another player, that isn't much of a limit if I have the money.

Also, where are you getting your data saying Dragonvale out-grossed WoW. I can't find any data on this, so I'm curious where you're finding it.

[Mr Spock]

Last I checked... Dragonvale doesn't have pvp. Does it? Having those limited time dragons is just a "look at me with my shiny _____ dragon that earns me 500 gold a minute!" You don't get some grand advantage over someone by being able to buy your gear. Being able to outright buy armors gives you an instant advantage over other players in this game. At least with the lottery and fusion options, everyone has the same RNG chance, not a case of who's wallet is fatter. And yes, you can spend money to win arena, but we all know the rewards are really nothing to brag about for the amount of gems spent, and you could spend $1000 and still never get anything good from chest while someone who spends $5 gets epics. But that is how a real lottery works too.

And your limited time armor releases? Those are called weekly bosses. But you want them in fusion, so you're banking on people being greedy and speeding up their armors each time they realize they're getting a crappy 1* or 2* fusion... what happens when you run out of fusion stones or armors to fuze with? Just buy more according to you. At least in the current system, you'd have to farm and then craft. Yes, you can speed up crafting every time and have instant armors, but you are still limited by how much you farm. You can't buy more potions, or fusion stones, and you can only use so many friends a day to help with farming. If having 50,000 gems in dragonvale is my only limit to getting a new dragon, where getting it or not doesn't affect another player, that isn't much of a limit if I have the money.

Also, where are you getting your data saying Dragonvale out-grossed WoW. I can't find any data on this, so I'm curious where you're finding it.

I don't remember where I read it as it was early in the year...here is a December 2012 link talking about money makers...http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2012...-apps-of-2012/. I remember that dragonvale posted a huge Christmas blah blah...

What I am trying to point out is the business model could be so much better..U keep defending it... Gree can still give the great exclusive epics in the guild wars....but they need something different 4 the masses. It isn't working...

[Tachycardia]

Jesus titty ****ing christ, it's a game.

Either play and choose to pay or don't for ****s sake.