Guild Match speed improvements

[Vendetta V]

Matching is actually a very complicated problem to solve, particularly since strategies war strategies keep shifting among guilds and were adding new features like the win streak quests. No matter what we do, there will always be some lopsided matches, and good pairings get harder to find the higher up the rankings you go.

That said, were're going to be analyzing the data from this war carefully over the next week and trying some adjustments for when the next war rolls around. Now that we have average matching speed improved significantly, we can add more depth to the computations that figure out who gets matched to who.

Hi Jerle,

Thanks for your appreciated response.
I/We understand that the matching system is complicated, but there should be tiers for matching. Guilds in the TOP150 should never be matched against Guilds in the TOP25 and for sure not against the TOP3.

Better to have 15 minutes matching time, than be matched against much higher ranked guilds! For many guilds the heroic part is impossible to do, just because when these guilds win a match against a similar guild, their next match is against a TOP10 guild. Seriously???? were is the FUN in that?

Guilds who loose many battles, cannot enjoy these wars anymore, it's just not fair and a waste of many, many gems...

I would appreciate if above can be considered... I really hope this will be solved the next guild war, otherwise you one day will find that the guilds rankking list stops by (for example) 600 guilds...

[Shinazueli]

Matching is actually a very complicated problem to solve, particularly since strategies war strategies keep shifting among guilds and were adding new features like the win streak quests. No matter what we do, there will always be some lopsided matches, and good pairings get harder to find the higher up the rankings you go.

That said, were're going to be analyzing the data from this war carefully over the next week and trying some adjustments for when the next war rolls around. Now that we have average matching speed improved significantly, we can add more depth to the computations that figure out who gets matched to who.

Seriously? It's not that hard. Total stats & number of members. If that brings down the number of fights a top guild can actually get, then you need to rethink the number of wins required for the quest. Not f with a matching system that worked for months. There is absolutely no reason other than tippy top guilds whining about match times that FUN should ever fight someone outside of the top 25 ranked guilds. If that means they have to wait for some poor unsuspecting guild up there to declare, then so be it. You've screwed up the balance to the point where nobody up there will even declare unless FUN is moving. It's a series of dominos that you blues set in motion and all you can do is watch them fall, because of GreeD. Or you can do the right thing and sacrifice short term profit for long term sustainable growth.

Match times were only ever long for guilds that didn't have to worry about losing in the first place.

Or coming at it from another angle, if you rebalanced the wins vs rank prize stats then you wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Why do you need your players to teach you how to design a game?

[Vendetta V]

Seriously? It's not that hard.
Match times were only ever long for guilds that didn't have to worry about losing in the first place.

So True, the only guild who complained about the long waiting time was FUN, they complained and GREE changed the settings in their favor again! at the cost of all others.

It's obvious that GREE is on the payroll of FUN, well... soon you will learn what the price was.

8% constructive messages against 92% complain messages.
Can't you see where this is going to...

[AndOne707]

I agree. But why are top 100-200 teams getting top 10 teams now?

because a lot of them are not scoring as high as usual..
imagine top 100 getting top 5, top 10, top 25.... yeah, not pretty.
At one point, top 500 were getting top 10 as well.... Once again due to different strategies being used by more powerful guilds in order to obtain wins due to the LTQ.
Not hating, I give props for adjusting things on the fly; however it did take some of us by surprise...

[anchlovi]

I/We understand that the matching system is complicated, but there should be tiers for matching. Guilds in the TOP150 should never be matched against Guilds in the TOP25 and for sure not against the TOP3.

If gree will implement what you suggest, you will have a new type of guilds "campers", strong members who will only declare war and won't even fight letting opponents to do the work for them.

[l3lade2]

I/We understand that the matching system is complicated, but there should be tiers for matching. Guilds in the TOP150 should never be matched against Guilds in the TOP25 and for sure not against the TOP3.

Better to have 15 minutes matching time, than be matched against much higher ranked guilds! For many guilds the heroic part is impossible to do, just because when these guilds win a match against a similar guild, their next match is against a TOP10 guild. Seriously???? were is the FUN in that?
.

Again....rankings should be irrelevant. Your asking for a top 150 guild never to match a top 10 guild...why? The only difference that you can guarantee without examining the 2 guilds is that 1 spends more than the other.

Take a top 150 guild...perhaps 42 members, total strength 50million..and a top 10 guild...38 members total strength 54million...why on earth shouldn't they be paired up? That is an even match as far as GREE should be concerned...who then chooses to spend gems to earn more CP is completely up to them and outside the bounds of matching.

[alonibb]

One of the most important things to change in current system for matching is that you shouldnt get opponents with no targets. This war our guild has come across several guilds with 5-6 members and each one of them has higher stats than our highest player. None of us has a target and cant play. Back in the days when only CP counts you can live with it. But now all that matters for most guilds is the Guild LTQs with 50 wins and many wins in a row. The situation described above makes it impossible to complete those quest.

The matching must make sure that at least 50% of the members in a guild have at least 1 descent target. The number of these small guilds increases in every war and soon you have no other option than doing this yourself. And I really think this will kill the guildwars-event.

[RoadBlock]

Matching is actually a very complicated problem to solve, particularly since strategies war strategies keep shifting among guilds and were adding new features like the win streak quests. No matter what we do, there will always be some lopsided matches, and good pairings get harder to find the higher up the rankings you go.

That said, were're going to be analyzing the data from this war carefully over the next week and trying some adjustments for when the next war rolls around. Now that we have average matching speed improved significantly, we can add more depth to the computations that figure out who gets matched to who.

The average matching speed did not improve for our guild, certainly not significantly. In fact, it was worse this war than any previous war. For 3 days that has been our number one gripe, why are the matches taking forever? Simply does not make sense.

[Vendetta V]

If gree will implement what you suggest, you will have a new type of guilds "campers", strong members who will only declare war and won't even fight letting opponents to do the work for them.

If so, it's so. at least the new type of camper guilds choose to stay low in rank, they will not win the top25 guild war rewards, or they must spend the last few hours a couple of ten thousand gems.

Of course GREE must change the rewards to a lower level, than each guild is free to choose which strategy they go for.

There aren't many options to choose from anymore...

For I3lade2,
Following the previous ranking lists, we can see which guilds are heavy gem guilds. light gem guilds and free player guilds.
Of course everyone is free to choose how many gems they want to use, but why should the free/ light gem players be punished for not using gems or minimal gems.

and yes indeed, a top150 shouldn't be ranked against a top10 guild, it is well known that the top10 guild spend many gems, otherwise they wouldn't be in the top10, because come on! We all know it's not tactics what brings you in the Top10, but simply refilling and pushing the button...

At least the "new" campers" guilds use their tactics, spend less gems than what they did before. ( or they choose to spend the many thousand gems in the last 10 hours...).

Let the heavy gem players battle against each other and let the other light gem/free guilds enjoy what is left of this free game.

Almost everyone seem to forget that a lot of teenagers also play this game, must they ask their parents for the credit card? Where is the fun for them? must they play another game because they can't use gems??

Finding solutions is not easy anymore, when we all suggest options, hopefully we can combine these to a better solution.

[l3lade2]

The matching must make sure that at least 50% of the members in a guild have at least 1 descent target. The number of these small guilds increases in every war and soon you have no other option than doing this yourself. And I really think this will kill the guildwars-event.

Couldn't disagree more, it isn't GREEs job to make sure you have a decent target, it's yours. Don't forget, when you have a decent target....it means the other guild may not...ie if u can hit their level 200 with level 100 players, they will be complaining about stupidly low targets nd low cp. End of the day..make yourself stronger. We all have occasional guilds we stand no chance against, you just want GREE to make it easier??

[Vendetta V]

The matching must make sure that at least 50% of the members in a guild have at least 1 descent target. The number of these small guilds increases in every war and soon you have no other option than doing this yourself. And I really think this will kill the guildwars-event.

At least these small guilds use a strategy, I don't like losing against them, but if I was not so committed to my guild, I would do excactly the same! I have several offers to join these special small strong guilds and I know I would pick up the 50/56 win rewards.. but call it something, but I just stay with my "normal" Top100 guild

[John 3013]

We noticed significantly higher speeds matching up at the start of the war, however it seems to be taking longer over the past 6-8 hours. I am assuming that your algorithms for matching up battles gets a little more complex as we progress towards the end of the war.

We have also noticed that GREE seems to match up battles in "waves" of high vs high and high vs low. I am assuming the goal here is to show significant increases in cp to spur everyone on.

All in all, the overall experience in this was has been much better. (Except for the matches against Top 3) Though it is quite funny when the entire team of a Top 10 guild can do nothing but bash their heads against a brick wall only to find out that there is a castle in the way.

[l3lade2]

If so, it's so. at least the new type of camper guilds choose to stay low in rank, they will not win the top25 guild war rewards, or they must spend the last few hours a couple of ten thousand gems.

Of course GREE must change the rewards to a lower level, than each guild is free to choose which strategy they go for.

There aren't many options to choose from anymore...

For I3lade2,
Following the previous ranking lists, we can see which guilds are heavy gem guilds. light gem guilds and free player guilds.
Of course everyone is free to choose how many gems they want to use, but why should the free/ light gem players be punished for not using gems or minimal gems.

and yes indeed, a top150 shouldn't be ranked against a top10 guild, it is well known that the top10 guild spend many gems, otherwise they wouldn't be in the top10, because come on! We all know it's not tactics what brings you in the Top10, but simply refilling and pushing the button...

At least the "new" campers" guilds use their tactics, spend less gems than what they did before. ( or they choose to spend the many thousand gems in the last 10 hours...).

Let the heavy gem players battle against each other and let the other light gem/free guilds enjoy what is left of this free game.

Almost everyone seem to forget that a lot of teenagers also play this game, must they ask their parents for the credit card? Where is the fun for them? must they play another game because they can't use gems??

Finding solutions is not easy anymore, when we all suggest options, hopefully we can combine these to a better solution.

I apologise because I'm really struggling not to go all out on the ridiculousness of this comment...."punished for not using gems" don't be stupid. What you're really saying, is that the game should be made easier for people who don't spend gems!! How far world you take this? FUN spend more gems than 3rd place...so they shouldn't be matched. #6 spends more than #12 so nope, can't match them.

That's like taking any major sporting event, I'm going to take Soccer, and say that teams who aren't as rich as say Manchester United, or Barcelona, are being punished for not spending as much by being in the same league/having to play against them in cup events.

If you don't want to participate, don't declare! If you do, accept the fact that you could be matched according to the matching system.

I can't believe I'm actually reading a post that says Free/ligh gem players shouldn't face people who spend more gems, and that they are punished if they do. If you seriously feel this way, then you're in the wrong game, go find a game that is completely free for all.

Ps. I myself am a light gem player, always have been.

[alonibb]

Couldn't disagree more, it isn't GREEs job to make sure you have a decent target, it's yours. Don't forget, when you have a decent target....it means the other guild may not...ie if u can hit their level 200 with level 100 players, they will be complaining about stupidly low targets nd low cp. End of the day..make yourself stronger. We all have occasional guilds we stand no chance against, you just want GREE to make it easier??

Its not in your hand to do anything about decent targets. If you are in a guild with players between 100k and 700k and you face guilds where everyone is above 2M. What is it you want that guild to do? The whole meaning with Guildwars and the matching is to fight against guilds which are aprox the same as yours. Sometimes little stronger and sometimes little weaker. But now 25% of our battles we have no target at all.

Its easy to say "grow stronger" but in fact the smartst thing to do is the opposite. Kick out the strongest and hope for more normal guilds in the war.

[KM KAge]

Again....rankings should be irrelevant. Your asking for a top 150 guild never to match a top 10 guild...why? The only difference that you can guarantee without examining the 2 guilds is that 1 spends more than the other.

Take a top 150 guild...perhaps 42 members, total strength 50million..and a top 10 guild...38 members total strength 54million...why on earth shouldn't they be paired up? That is an even match as far as GREE should be concerned...who then chooses to spend gems to earn more CP is completely up to them and outside the bounds of matching.

I agtree with the premise, but not the math. Two major factors should come into play. Total strength and average strength. A guild with a total attack strength of about 50 million should never be matched against a guild with over 400 million, yet it happened. The other is average strength. If guilds are continuosly matched against guilds where most of the members cannot attack anything but the castle, the members will simply abandon the game.
This time around we have gotten quite used to losing. We have had only one match up so far that was even close, with the other guild being only 30 spots above us in the rankings. All others have been at least 90 spots above us, and I doubt that any of them were only 54 million. If we are able to score CP, then fine we take our losses. If we just have to "visit with our family and wait for the next war" too many times, then the chance of coming back for the next war diminishes greatly.