Admins - is getting stats from the "player database" cheating or not?

[Legen...dary]

I stopped on Page 5 when ITT; people argue with a lawyer without even understanding the complexities of the situation.

GREE could easily say that this violates their ToS. Cataloging this data for use could be considered to violate the TOS. The distribution of this info to bypass the (LOL) "safeguards" (of it not being shown in-game) of rivals' "private" data (in-game, standard gameplay, not your personal private info / rights violations) for your use to "modify their experience" may violate the TOS. This is not a criminal matter. This is someone looking at the unencrypted data traveling over their router, in their house. At the very best, GREE could attempt to create some way of finding them and banning them.

It really is not difficult to read the terms of service page. The problem lies in how some of those terms can be interpreted. -----use or distribute cheats,exploits, automation software, bots, hacks mods, or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify any users experience with the service-----
This one seems pretty self explanatory. Extracting user data certainly sounds like exploiting the system to me.

So gree has the right to boot them off the server. Good luck.

[Green Drake]

Not a lawyer nor do I claim to be which is why I am requesting clarification. Doesn't sit well when it happened to me. I believe they did boot the user that did it to me but not positive.
Also believes it does give an advantage to the groups using it.

[Dipstik]

He's not talking about you, greenie. And I suspect were probably both lawyers.

[Rebels]

Gree just need to make it so the data cant be read.

Or with my marketing hat on they should sell 'blocking devices' 250 gold should do it.

[Swedevil]

He's not talking about you, greenie. And I suspect were probably both lawyers.

Remind me to never meet you in court. You'll twist every word in my reports to read whatever you want it to say..fight for it with us one day...not against us **** Deguerin...or would you rather save the bankers and Enron again...lol

[Dipstik]

Remind me to never meet you in court. You'll twist every word in my reports to read whatever you want it to say..fight for it with us one day...not against us **** Deguerin...or would you rather save the bankers and Enron again...lol

You a cop? Pfft.

[TMI]

Please note that this message is not saying that ppl should be banned or GREE is bad, or anything like that. It is for the question: Is this whole data collection thing a violation of TOS?

Under the TOS webpage it says you cannot:

use or distribute cheats, exploits, automation software, bots, hacks, mods or any unauthorized third party software designed to modify any user’s experience with the Service.

In relevant short form: You cannot Use or distribute any unauthorized third party software designed to modify any user's experience with the Service.

Can someone who doesn't believe that this is violation of TOS specifically explain where my logic or understanding is incorrect?

Use or distribute: yes, that has happened, according to what ppl have openly said on the forum

unauthorized third party software: I believe it is unauthorized by GREE. (GREE hasn't said if it is or isn't. Although I believe someone has already admitted to creating it, but that doesn't necessarily exclude it being authorized by GREE).
and I'm not 100% sure but,
I believe it is a third party software (I've never used the program, so I don't know if it is or isn't),
Again, I could be wrong in both assumptions.

designed to modify any user’s experience with the Service: I don't know about this actually. But I'll assume it's purpose was DESIGNED for that
to MODIFY any user's experience with the Service. We already have heard from numerous ppl that have used this software that it has modified their experience.

Please, no Ad Hominems or other fallicies. I really would like to know where my logic and/or reasoning is broken down or flawed.

The only things I can see is that if it WASN'T actually DESIGNED to do what it is doing, or if it IS an authorized software, or if it is NOT a third party software.

Thank you

Again, this is not asking whether or not ppl or syndicates should be banned. I doubt GREE would be able to prove who has used this or who is using this currently. It's not like a G**** hacker where other users can plainly see.

[Swedevil]

You a cop? Pfft.

Not a cop...but another form of law enforcement and we'll leave that one alone Johnnie Cochran

[bald zeemer]

designed to modify any user’s experience with the Service: I don't know about this actually. But I'll assume it's purpose was DESIGNED for that
to MODIFY any user's experience with the Service. We already have heard from numerous ppl that have used this software that it has modified their experience.

This is the entire point of contention, you cannot just assume the argument.

Having ones data collected does not directly modify the user experience. This is clear, as many of the people on this thread suddenly up in arms only just found out about it, despite the fact that the collection occurred months ago.

The argument therefore is whether the software indirectly affects the user experience, and to what extent indirect effects are covered by the TOS.

Now that we've framed the question I invite anyone who believes they've had their experience indirectly affected to state their experience.

Personally I know my data was collected and read, and am unaware of any alteration of my experience at all. I would suggest that I would be a more likely target than the average player, given the personnel involved at the time of initial creation.

[Angel6ix6ix6]

It's hacking and the players involved need to be banned. In fact it's information theft and authorities need to be informed. We don't know what other info has been stolen. Maybe credit card info which resulted in illegal purchases.
Lawyer up, class action suit on the way!

[BigMoney]

It's hacking and the players involved need to be banned. In fact it's information theft and authorities need to be informed. We don't know what other info has been stolen. Maybe credit card info which resulted in illegal purchases.
Lawyer up, class action suit on the way!

Hey, I know a "lawyer" you could talk to.

[Mistress Nikita]

It's hacking and the players involved need to be banned. In fact it's information theft and authorities need to be informed. We don't know what other info has been stolen. Maybe credit card info which resulted in illegal purchases.
Lawyer up, class action suit on the way!

You may want to delete your post. Threatening lawsuits is generally frowned upon.

[Dipstik]

It's hacking and the players involved need to be banned. In fact it's information theft and authorities need to be informed. We don't know what other info has been stolen. Maybe credit card info which resulted in illegal purchases.
Lawyer up, class action suit on the way!

Speaking of TOS violations...

[Mistress Nikita]

Speaking of TOS violations...

Too slow!

extracharacters

[TMI]

This is the entire point of contention, you cannot just assume the argument.

Having ones data collected does not directly modify the user experience. This is clear, as many of the people on this thread suddenly up in arms only just found out about it, despite the fact that the collection occurred months ago.

The argument therefore is whether the software indirectly affects the user experience, and to what extent indirect effects are covered by the TOS.

Now that we've framed the question I invite anyone who believes they've had their experience indirectly affected to state their experience.

Personally I know my data was collected and read, and am unaware of any alteration of my experience at all. I would suggest that I would be a more likely target than the average player, given the personnel involved at the time of initial creation.

Thank you bald zeemer, I always appreciate your insight.
I agree that just HAVING the data MAY not modify the players game experience. I would like to give an example, however, of how this third party software CAN modify the user's experience, thus violating TOS.
If a player (let's call him/her player A) uses this third party software to find out when another player (let's call him/her player B) collects their buildings. Player A can now specifically search for player B at specific times and can rob player B with greater chances than if he didn't use the third party software, and thus player A's game experience has been modified. Also, player B has a modified game experience, although he/she may not know it unfortunately, because player B now has a greater likelihood of having their buildings successfully robbed, compared to if player A did not use this third party software.

I don't think it can be argued, that in my example, user experience has been modified by the use of this third party software.
So I guess the question of whether or not it is a violation of GREE's TOS can be narrowed down to:
Does the third party software HAVE to ALWAYS modify user's experience or that only if it is CAPABLE or POSSIBLE of modifying user's experience?

Edit: going to bed. But I look forward to yours and anyone else's thoughtful insight.