Syndicate battle question

[BigMoney]

In the first syndicate battle, I never lost a single battle to someone who had a defense lower than my attack stat. I figured it worked differently than the normal rival attacks, where you suddenly lose a battle every once in a while to someone way weaker than you just to ruin your win streak goals. But anyway, this battle I've now lost three times to people with weaker defense (odd coincidence as I was looking through my screenshots, but two of them, different people, have literally the exact same defense stat).

Does anyone know why this is happening, or if this is normal or new to this particular syndicate battle? I can post screenshots, but I'm hesitant to reveal my exact stats. How much higher should I be than my opponent to ensure victory? I already though I was playing it safe by having an attack stat >15% higher than their defense stat. Someone in my syndicate suggested it might have to do with my consumable explosives?

Also, on the "losing" screen, it has [cash] 0 [stamina] 0 [blank space] -4

What's the negative 4?


Edit: I don't think 15% is a good margin if I were attacking rivals for a win streak goal, for the record. I just thought the syndicate battles worked differently because I won all my battles last time around, even when my attack was only a few hundred above their defense.

[BigMoney]

Actually I'm looking at my screenshots again and I just noticed that it said I'm only using 425 mafia members, even though I have over 500? What's the deal with that? Is that the reason I lost?

[mxz]

There's a random factor that is applied to battles. This is not new.
25% is a better margin.
You can only use MAX(500, Level * 5) allies in battle. So if you're level 85, 425 would make sense.

[BigMoney]

There's a random factor that is applied to battles. This is not new.
25% is a better margin.
You can only use MAX(500, Level * 5) allies in battle. So if you're level 85, 425 would make sense.

Thanks for the info. So there's nothing special about syndicate battles, they work the same as normal rival attacks?

Edit: and I believe you meant "min(500, level*5)", but I get what you were saying.

Edit 2: and I know you can only use so many mafia members in battle (for the purposes of how stats are calculated), but I just double checked by attacking a rival, and it shows I have 500+ mafia on that screen, even though I know I'm not using all of them. So the fact that "425" was displayed was why I thought it was unusual.

[BigMoney]

Well, since I have some time to kill, here are some screenshots.


Here's the first one I lost, where I lost 2 invisible thingies.


Here's the most recent one I lost, which was more costly as I lost 4 invisible thingies.


For comparison, here's what a normal rival attack looks for me (I'm losing this one again, because I only take screenshots when I lose outrageously lopsided battles)

[Crime Time]

It looks like the icon for explosives is not appearing on the top. Here is what you do, scroll to the bottom ... That will show exactly what is being lost.

[Crime Time]

As for less mafia being used by you... Look for the Irish keg tapper it reduces enemy mafia... I can't remember the others that do it but I know that is one for sure

[bald zeemer]

Keg tapper increases your own mafia.
There are others that reduce enemy, but not enough to do 75. I think the max is somewhere around the 10-20 range, if someone had them all.

I'd look it up, but I'm mid-battle.

[BigMoney]

Ah, so those invisible things are explosives. Thanks, that makes sense.

Based on your guys' responses, I believe it's just that the syndicate battle layout is different-- e.g. no dollar sign for the cash, tallying the "equipment used" differently, etc. I guess I overreacted to seeing the "425", even though that's the number of mafia I use, since I had never seen it on my normal battle screens before. But since the layout is different, I thought perhaps that syndicate battles worked differently as well-- mxz says there's a randomness factor there (as in normal rival attacks), which perhaps I didn't notice in the first battle since I got lucky and won all of my close matches (much closer than the ones I'm currently losing, anyway). I guess I viewed the syndicate battles as "different" in part because of the different battle layout than rival attacks.

So the only thing I think is still up for debate is whether syndicate battles are the same as rival attacks. At least my other mysteries were solved. Thanks all.

[bald zeemer]

What do you mean by "the same as rival attacks".
They count on your stats. All the same mods apply. Same restrictions on payouts, etc etc.

I might be missing a specific detail you're referring to, but I'm fairly confident in saying that they are the same.

For the record, I got a loss to a guy with 100k lower stats earlier, which fell at the outer range of the 25% mxz mentioned. 1 in about 40-odd fights, which is what I'd expect in normal PvP.

[OneHoop]

I believe that the random factor is greater for syndicate battles. I lost a battle in Midtown with a 28.5% advantage, as did one of my teammates. Typically I count 25% advantage as a sure thing in PvP. Advantage due to consumable explosives has more to do with consumption rate (theory) than win rate.

M@

I won one today with a 24% disadvantage.

[BigMoney]

What do you mean by "the same as rival attacks".
They count on your stats. All the same mods apply. Same restrictions on payouts, etc etc.

I might be missing a specific detail you're referring to, but I'm fairly confident in saying that they are the same.

For the record, I got a loss to a guy with 100k lower stats earlier, which fell at the outer range of the 25% mxz mentioned. 1 in about 40-odd fights, which is what I'd expect in normal PvP.

You basically answered what I meant in your first paragraph. I think I mistakenly assumed that syndicate battles worked differently than normal PvP attacks (I mean like visiting a rival's hood) because in the Midtown event, I won every single match where I had a higher attack stat and lost every match where I didn't-- so I thought that there was no "randomness" factor like there is in normal PvP. But I can see now that it's wrong since I've lost some battles that I think I should have won.

But thanks for the info, helpful as always bald zeemer.