Gold spending and fearing the big boys at the top. My take on it.

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Thread: Gold spending and fearing the big boys at the top. My take on it.

  1. #1
    Verbose Veteran Kiss Of Death's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Gold spending and fearing the big boys at the top. My take on it.

    EDIT 10/July/12 - Go start at post #64... this stuffs old... and was too early in my understanding of the game....



    OLD ORIGINAL:

    First up there is no point reading this if any of the following apply:

    a) You don’t buy gold
    b) You don’t plan on being a long term player
    c) You’re an IT try hard (not interested in your bull on my post go put your rand() input elsewhere)
    d) You’re not an obsessive compulsive addicted statistical minded individual

    Before I realised this forum even existed and within a few days of playing I figured that as you climb, longer term players will have had more time to build up income and unit types, that if I intended to climb quickly I needed to offset a few clear issues that a few hours of playing showed me.

    I then thought about other games like this where people form groups at the top and you have two choices, cave to a group or try to bravely strike out on your own. So how would this be possible and what dynamics was I seeing?

    First, all units can be killed except gold bought ones. (no brainer)

    Second, raided buildings lost you about 66% of your revenue. Or gained you up to 66% of their revenue (No brainer)

    Third, you can only lose up to (at time this is written) $30k per failed attack or win up to $300k per attack restricted to a max of 10% of the unprotected cash on hand each attack and the number of attacks until the can’t attack any more comes up (Likewise lose $300k a hit). (again no brainer)

    I then looked at gold units and found them wanting for the amount they cost to buy vs. their return and initially I set a rule of only buy units that had a (A+D)/G ratio equal to 1.2x the gold value or if one statistic was 0.7x i.e. A/G or D/G. This worked very well initially but climbing as quickly as I was with minimal income coming in I realised I could not replace losses quickly and it was stifling my fun!

    So I looked at the statistics of crates and unless you are very unlucky then for the same 800 gold you can spend on say four mid-sized units with a 150-160 A+D total each (a ratio of about 0.75x) you can get 12 Crates with 100 gold to spare. The 12 crates give you 12 units that can’t die and you should get 1-2 rare (maybe the big rare if your amazingly lucky), 3 Uncommon which have similar stats to the 4 set price units, and 7-8 commons which are the equivalent of $2-6million dry dock ships… which can die. An average ratio expected on those 12 crates would be 1.59x when compared to the 0.75x and provides 12 (4 full allies) slots with undying units as opposed to 4 (1 Ally fully fielding) slots.

    So now I get an argument “yes but I guarantee I get what I want…” so do I… I guarantee myself that I will have 12 units that later in game terms cannot die, are as powerful or more powerful than the most expensive in game cash units, realistically I will get 3 (of what you paid for to get four) mid powered in addition to the 8 expected lower ones AND likely get at least 1 much more powerful perhaps 2 than what you paid for to guarantee your 4 mid units.

    Over the course of a year or two of playing building up the crate items, yes I may even occasionally get a 200+A and 200+Def unit… for 58gold… but I will have hundreds of undying middle and lower units.
    So how does this come into my long term strategy with the big boys..?

    Simple… returning to basics. (No Brainers are winners)

    They can put out hits, they can come rummaging through my city/camp but all they can do is reduce my income to 33%... I’m still making money, and kill off a few of the in house cash units not most of my active army. Their tactics of attrition when they reduce your income and systematically reduce your units to a level you cannot recover from becomes severely hampered if not laughable. Simply manage your allies, dump enough that what you have left in perishable unit fielding allies is replaceable by 33% of your hourly income that you can collect during your gaming day.

    I don’t care how much they plunder if my units stay fighting. And as I said, the massive number of extra lower units that can’t die bolstering up the mid and rare ones you get make for staying power. Then sure lash out 950 gold for a unit with over 300A or D but why bother until you have maxed out your ally count and every other unit is non perishable…

    My thoughts anyway. I’m only a statistician and looking at this from a cost effective, numerical position.
    Oh and I’m a GIRL! Had this out already. So I should add to the top. e) Don’t bother reading this if you’re a bigot who thinks all women are dumber than you.

    It’s a simple system and has no bearing on needing special game play changes to make it work in my favor.

    Don’t forget those great weekly free indestructible units for events! Every free one is a winner in your army.
    Last edited by Kiss Of Death; 07-10-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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  2. #2
    Prominent Poet mickymacirl's Avatar
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    "First, all units can be killed except gold bought ones. (no brainer)"

    You clearly haven't came up vers someone with no cas glitch and 2000 SH etc.

  3. #3
    Prominent Poet Q Raider's Avatar
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    True Mickey, but it doesn't change the points made, just adds an extra reason to go for the crates as an even upper for those of us who aren't "blessed" with that advantage or worse are cursed with the disadvantage you still have re the Valor losses.

    Even without the crates so long as you hang in there, then the event items stack up into a decent force on their own.

    For my money the Only thing better than a crate is the composite factory.

  4. #4
    Steady Scribe
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    tl:dr .

  5. #5
    Prominent Poet Ryans67's Avatar
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    One thing your not factoring in to your equations is the boost buildings and the country boost. Part of this point is mute if you have all boost buildings maxed. Thats a tough thing to accomplish. If your russia, and have your air boost maxed, your adding significant numbers to the base stats of an air unit that is purchased with gold, which would not be the case if purchasing crates.

    It might be looking to far into the future, but a certain point your unit density is going to have to eclipse the value of the common crate items, and you will not be bringing them into battle. I think there are a few players that have this issue.

    As to maintaining your army through unit replacement, your forgetting that at the higher levels your army is going to be comprised of a significant number of valor units. Valor is not able to be replaced if your dropping allies and just trying to maintain your forces.

    As to the best use of gold....Mine was using some on refills to win the PVP tournament.
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  6. #6
    Prominent Poet Arizona's Avatar
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    No one I've seen on this forum has ever asked the first and most important question: What is your objective in this game?
    Is it to compete with the big boys, gold bugs, pirates, whatever you want to call them?
    Is it to get to L200 and survive?
    Myself, I'd just like to compete with everyone else and have the highest stats I can for what I do as a free player. If I wanted to get to L200, I could have done that months ago. It aint that hard!!! In fact it's a "no brainer" as the OP likes to use.



  7. #7
    Verbose Veteran Kiss Of Death's Avatar
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    Are you playing the same game as us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryans67 View Post
    One thing your not factoring in to your equations is the boost buildings and the country boost. Part of this point is mute if you have all boost buildings maxed. Thats a tough thing to accomplish. If your russia, and have your air boost maxed, your adding significant numbers to the base stats of an air unit that is purchased with gold, which would not be the case if purchasing crates.
    Clearly you're playing a similar game to us but this post is for modern war... because last I checked aircraft in crates and ships in crates still get the same boost bonus both for nation and upgrades. So they are no different than the in game cash ones NOR the purpose bought gold ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryans67 View Post
    ...It might be looking to far into the future, but a certain point your unit density is going to have to eclipse the value of the common crate items, and you will not be bringing them into battle. I think there are a few players that have this issue....
    Again I re-iterate, the lowest common crate item is only eclipsed by 1 single aircraft and about three or sometimes four dry dock ships. No Ground... No Infantry. So all the crate infantry will be your most powerful ground until you have 100% ships and planes... and all crate ground units will be your most powerful ground forces until you get 100% ships and aircraft... and of course we are referring ONLY to common items in that quote... again... my example... 4 x 200 gold units which are better than the best cash items regardless of type... or 12 x crates with 100 gold left for your PvP refills you mention where... you will get averages of 1.8 rares, that's 1 or 2 items in the 350-400 gold range value...PLUS at least 3 Uncommon with gold values of 185-215 gold value... PLUS say 7-8 Common on averages in the 40-50 gold value....) see the PLUS PLUS PLUS? In one set I got 3 rares and that included the item with over 200 A and 200 Def... about an 870-950 Gold item... for my 58 gold a crate. Your comments are wrong.

    So lets assume you play forever and the common units mean you don't fork out millions and millions in losses trying to get up there along the way... thanks to the fact they don't die letting you save up. Then you also have 4-5 units per 12 crates bought (Rare and Uncommon)way in excess of the maximum perishable troop type. You also missed my point about surviving the big boys take down attempts by attrition. Your lovely 8 million ships die... so they run out... whats left? thats right a common crate unit steps up boldly to take its place sealing that door. And all for the loss of perhaps... 10 Attack and 10 Def until you save up your 8 million again.... moving on now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryans67 View Post
    ...As to maintaining your army through unit replacement, your forgetting that at the higher levels your army is going to be comprised of a significant number of valor units. Valor is not able to be replaced if your dropping allies and just trying to maintain your forces.

    As to the best use of gold....Mine was using some on refills to win the PVP tournament.
    Valor units are less powerful than crate rares and only as powerful as crate Uncommon... 1-2 and 3 minimum average over multiple purchases... valor units die... my crates don't...

    My tactic is not flawed, you maintain an ally number suitable for your manageable attrition rate and increase allies as you build your backbone. Each 1500 gold pack gets you 24 crates with 100 gold to save... thats 6 fully decked out allies that you can now add with impunity. Then add allies to bolster this with your 'eventual' valor and in game cash top notch highest possible to achieve ships... so far far far far away... are you looking for the 90% of current players to achieve that position with standard attrition? I think not.

    I attack with only 31 stamina (only low levels still) 5-10 times a day. I generate already over 600 valor a day without sweat and lose perhaps... 3-4 units a day from perishable ally units. I often raise 3-6 million a day at my level in raids and cleaning up unvaulted players... I have 60 allies, most grunts and over 2376 units because I cant possibly spend what I steal in a day and am months away for the time needed while I upgrade unit buildings to reach those multi million dollar units... even then I don't really need them for a long time I'm only doing it because there is no point developing my income buildings when I raid without loss all day so nows the time.

    Any way, I know I'm right, your just a man so I can't expect you to think logically Lol
    Last edited by Kiss Of Death; 06-12-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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  8. #8
    Master of Musings manbeast's Avatar
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    cliffs?

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  9. #9
    Prominent Poet Jp lfs's Avatar
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    I actually think this is a very well written and thought out post. As opposed to so many "fluff" threads lately. So THANK YOU to Kiss of Death for boldly stating a light to medium gold strategy with some merit.

    Yes, you could pick apart pieces of it, but as a player with a fairly respectable army over Lvl 100, the strategy laid out here is similar to my current view on Gold spending. Yes, I admittedly went overboard at times in the lower levels, but now I try to look at value over raw stats, and crates still win over LE's, in my opinion. I do have a few gold units that don't make my army now, but not so many that I regret buying them.

    And when some super-stat whale or hacker makes me his plaything for a few days and decimates my cash and valor units, I will still have those units to fall back on, or even hide under while I rebuild.

    I think this was a great post. Thank you again for your insight, KoD.
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  10. #10
    Articulate Author Wdigeorge's Avatar
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    @kissed death,

    Lol, seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about gender. Those who think one's gender s better/smarter than the other is sadly mistaken.

    Getting gold units from crates is certainly an attractive option as I have purchased many gold units through that method.

    However, the answer to your question will vary pending on your definition of "the big boys.". If you consider a player with over 75k-100k a big boy....your strategy will eventually work against them.

    If you are talking about someone with 200k, 300k, 400k...500k stats.....chances are you will never catch them with crates unless you are extremely lucky and beating the Rare drop odds.
    SUP GEORGE - THE PIRATES (TM)
    Russian Flag, Level 300
    Income: Over $190 Million / Hr
    Stats: A LOT!

  11. #11
    Prominent Poet Q Raider's Avatar
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    Can't resist....

    Reference Wdigeorge's footnotes.
    Q
    Game Player
    Russian Flag, Level 109
    Income: <$40k/hr
    Stats: Between 20k-30k A/D
    Looking at that comparison I definitely consider myself entertainment for the paying customers.

    Won't stop me having fun along the way though......

  12. #12
    Verbose Veteran Kiss Of Death's Avatar
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    The strategy is about 'surviving at the highest level' and instead relies on playing to your strength by limiting your allies to your indestructible unit max and acceptable perishable unit max set by your 33% guaranteed collection rate vs losses... but to answer your question if you are nuts and rush out adding every ally you can... then...

    No the strategy is designed to build on, I don't reason that once you get to full ally count and you max out the valor and cash units and power ups that you can get away with crates from that point, at that point you will need to target specific high cost units and try for some event 10th item specials that clearly boost your att/def abilities, wish I'd focused on the PVP in MW not CC which I won... I think the MW one would have been better.

    No issues hence the smiley, I get treated as a dumb person because I am blond naturally, look very young for my actual age and am a woman. That and several posts referred to me as he! in this forum... watch out you players who did that! My shoulders too small to carry a chip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wdigeorge View Post
    @kissed death,

    Lol, seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about gender. Those who think one's gender s better/smarter than the other is sadly mistaken.

    Getting gold units from crates is certainly an attractive option as I have purchased many gold units through that method.

    However, the answer to your question will vary pending on your definition of "the big boys.". If you consider a player with over 75k-100k a big boy....your strategy will eventually work against them.

    If you are talking about someone with 200k, 300k, 400k...500k stats.....chances are you will never catch them with crates unless you are extremely lucky and beating the Rare drop odds.
    Last edited by Kiss Of Death; 06-14-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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  13. #13
    Verbose Veteran Kiss Of Death's Avatar
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    No different Saigon597.... But remeber if you read the actual purpose of this post... this is my strategy for gold paying players who are worried about getting trounced by the big players when they do get up there. Slow and steady for free players is best unless you're a crazy hero

    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon597 View Post
    No one I've seen on this forum has ever asked the first and most important question: What is your objective in this game?
    Is it to compete with the big boys, gold bugs, pirates, whatever you want to call them?
    Is it to get to L200 and survive?
    Myself, I'd just like to compete with everyone else and have the highest stats I can for what I do as a free player. If I wanted to get to L200, I could have done that months ago. It aint that hard!!! In fact it's a "no brainer" as the OP likes to use.
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  14. #14
    Articulate Author Wdigeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q Raider View Post
    Can't resist....

    Reference Wdigeorge's footnotes.
    Q
    Game Player
    Russian Flag, Level 109
    Income: <$40k/hr
    Stats: Between 20k-30k A/D
    Looking at that comparison I definitely consider myself entertainment for the paying customers.

    Won't stop me having fun along the way though......
    With your stats you are certainly on the weak side compare to those in levels 100+. However, with the recent introduction of the more powerful valor units you can easily double to triple your current stats if you play the game right without spending any gold.
    SUP GEORGE - THE PIRATES (TM)
    Russian Flag, Level 300
    Income: Over $190 Million / Hr
    Stats: A LOT!

  15. #15
    Articulate Author azy's Avatar
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    <warning, Thur morning humor ahead>

    For someone who doesn't want "obsessive compulsive addicted statistical minded individual" participating on this thread, you sure spew off a lot of numbers.

    I'd ask you how hot you are, but you play video games, so that's pretty much answered.

    But look on the bright side, raiding nets the plunderer only 60% of the building's income, thus leaving 40% behind. And 40% is more than 33%. Just thought I'd put that in terms a girl can understand.

    </warning>


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