Detailed lay-out of what I feel is the most optimal strategy

[PorkChopExpress]

Superdad... 450/600? That's the best you've seen on lvl 13? From my perspective that's horrendous... I'm level 10, 34 allies, w/l 400+ to 12... my attack/defense is 2000/1980 - and I do the occasional PvP (when I see someone holding 2-3x their (assumed) vault & PvE (hit Silos @ lvl 4 up)... U wouldn't stand a chance against me now - and I'm 3 levels behind u... Love the thought put into documenting your approach... find it fascinating to read other people's approaches to the game, BUT the statement around 450/600 seems dubious and extremely harmful to your argument...

[superdad]

Superdad... 450/600? That's the best you've seen on lvl 13? From my perspective that's horrendous... I'm level 10, 34 allies, w/l 400+ to 12... my attack/defense is 2000/1980 - and I do the occasional PvP (when I see someone holding 2-3x their (assumed) vault & PvE (hit Silos @ lvl 4 up)... U wouldn't stand a chance against me now - and I'm 3 levels behind u... Love the thought put into documenting your approach... find it fascinating to read other people's approaches to the game, BUT the statement around 450/600 seems dubious and extremely harmful to your argument...

Everything you say is what I've said. Camping is absolutely the strongest way to play the game, since it's a zero-cost investment (exp). Also, camping has it's greatest strength from levels 1-10, where the armor you can buy in the store compares to what people at that same level can find in the killing fields. Your post doesn't invalidate mine, it is exactly what I talk about several times.

Also, you are at 34 allies, I am at ~10. You can't just straight up compare numbers with different ally counts. My allies are equipping 10/8 weapons now, and 8/10 armor. I have illusionists (2/9) and, if I wanted to attack, could buy battering rams (8/1). With 34 allies, I'd be at: 2720/2754. I just checked my game, and I don't have enough gear to get there, but I'm about half-way there. This is the level range where I start to pass campers, and I pass them by around level 15 or so.

You'll find very fast that once you get into the 15-25 range that you won't be able to buy gear anywhere close to what you can find killing monsters. So the hourly income isn't *that* important. The gear that is even comparable costs 10,000 gold, and my strategey can pull in ~5 of those in an hour, whereas it may take 5 hours with a very good income to save for only 1 piece. Very quickly, campers start falling behind after level 10-15 range.

The absolute best strategy is to do what you are doing (intense camping), AND follow my strategy. My post was to point out that people don't HAVE to camp to succeed at this game. Your stats put you as a very severe camper (which is sweet, nice job btw), but there are only 1 of you in every 10,000 players, and campers don't attack generally, because that entirely goes againt camping. So nobody has to fear a camper in the range that the campers are strongest.

TLR, camping plus my strategy is the strongest way to play this game. My post was to say that you don't have to camp if you follow my guide, because you'll quickly get out of the range (level 1-15) where campers are dominant, and will do so with very solid strength yourself (beating 999 out of 1000 players), AND the only people that beat you are people that don't attack you, because they are camping.

[superdad]

Update on my game:

Level 13
Allies: 16
Attack: 535
Defense: 913
Income: 590

As you can see, no camping at all. I have built every gold building for my level. I have spent about 6 full energy bars looking for an upgrade for my hero weapon, and have missed it. Infact, I went 32 kills without a single loot! Talk about some bad luck. I'm still basically unbeatable. People at my ally count have about 300/400 stats, with campers in the 600/700 range. The strategy is really taking off now.

I will provide updates roughly once a day so you guys can see how the strategy evolves level by level and day by day.

[Futon]

How did you reset superdad?

[hydrota]

How did you reset superdad?

You must transfer the game to another device, OR you can send a game too your device, then send that game back to its original and your will be new again.

[superdad]

Ghost has step by step instructions in his beginner guide. It is stickied at the top of these forums.

[superdad]

So, I found a juicy target with some level 7 silos and swelled a bit to be able to take some monster cash for very little exp. I've pushed myself a bit far, but I'm still extremely strong and will catch up pretty quickly. I think I'm using about 10-15 weapons with 2/1 power only, which makes me very sad, but it shall be remedied shortly.

My stats now:

Level 15
Allies: 23
Attack: 900
Defense: 1276
Income: 654

Remember, this strategy only starts taking off at this point. I will see the biggest % increases in the next 10-15 levels, where I start to enter godmode.

Most people in my ally range are in the 700/800 range. The camper that I attacked was 875/875ish, with maxed out weapons and fairly low gold, so I knew I'd be safe to swell up and beat him. Free ~6k gold is pretty nice at this level. I expect the next update will be pretty significant gains.

I should also have werewolves in a few days, and will then focus on upgrading my economy more. There hasn't been much need yet, as I've been working mostly on getting my defense in an absolutely crushingly safe spot.

[DinoARC]

Thanks for the really interesting thread. Superdad, do you think there is a point where investing points in Hero Strength is no longer benficial? For example, let's say it takes you 2 swings to take out some of the highest level monsters after you dropped all skill points into Hero Strength (purely a hypothetical as I've never leveled that high). Is there a point where you cannot reduce the number of swings further, and any additional points invested in Hero Strength provide no further benefit? I'm curious if I could free up a few points to invest elsewhere after Hero Strength was already providing it's maximum utility.

[NeonBlue]

Great analysis, superdad! Thanks for the thorough explanation.

I have some questions -- the first is, roughly, "what does success look like?"

I understand how this method helps you gear up and achieve high attack and defense scores. I understand why you'd want defense, to some extent -- it's to protect your unvaulted gold, right?

But what is attack good for? PvP seems to not be worth the XP gained. (Sure, I get some nice units, but I also lose the nearly-as-good units I've bought, such that each fight costs me 1-200 gold in replacement costs.) So if PvP is just a way of earning (or losing) gold, while costing xp, it doesn't seem to fit into your strategy. But without PvP, why do you want those shiny high-attack weapons on the first place?

And when you speak of "rocketing past" other players, do you mean in level? Or attack/defense scores? Or "I could beat you if I wanted" bragging rights?

Please note: I'm not in any way criticizing your strategy -- in fact I just restarted my game on my secondary device and am going to follow your plan to the letter; I believe your analysis is absolutely correct.

I'm just wondering if you have some longer-term vision that explains *why* this approach is successful. Is it because you will reach the top level sooner than with other strategies? Or that you will get beat less on your way there? Why is it worth building a strong army, when the nature of this approach is to spend all your effort acquiring equipment, but not using it? Or does this turn into a heavy PvP strategy later on? And if so, what is the goal at that point?

On my main account, I camped and got a very nice economy going, I upgraded my Siege Workshop and have all the Catapults and Zeppelins I need to be able to beat people with many more allies than I have. I successfully defend against all attacks. I'm adding allies in order to do all the Tournament challenges (because without adding them I can't see players at the level I need to attack). But I find myself wondering "what's the point? is this success? am I 'winning'?"

I'd love to think that your approach, or any approach, would be a path to playing the game that doesn't strand me in such nihilistic thoughts.

TL / DR: Why is leveling slowly and carefully, and building a strong army as you go, better than leveling quickly and recklessly? What is the implied ultimate goal of the game?

[Joe Brown1]

I have followed a form of this strategy and at lvl 22 currently have A: 1331/D: 1439 with only 14 allies (I could probably add a lot more allies but don't seem to need them at this point and am pouring gold into income/vault/land upgrades) and no gold. I have only been robbed one in the last week or two and that was by someone with over 30 gold units. One advantage is that due to work, I only have so much time to farm so I do have approx 2,000 IPH. A few comments, I tend to farm borderline 1/2 hit monsters to get weapons that last longer. Also, I have discovered that some monsters are not available until you quest the area, so when I can 2 hit kill most monsters in an area, I quest that area to unlock new monsters. I have gotten some good hero weapons that way. Great write-up - thanks for the effort!

[NeonBlue]

Okay, my second question is refreshingly non-philosophical:

Why farm equipment that I know I'm going to replace?

Yes, I can one-shot rats in Morogdar's Den, and so farming in Lanibod's Crypt (my current highest map) is more "expensive" in terms of xp gains. But since I plan to fully replace, eventually, the Morog's Den equipment, then isn't that actually "wasted" xp, making it more expensive in the long run? Unless I truly need that equipment now, why not spend the xp, however inefficiently, toward farming gear I'll eventually be farming anyway?




Why not farm only the highest level gear, regardless of the xp gains, because that's the gear I'll be able to use the longest?

(Once again, this is a question not a challenge -- I'm assuming there is a good mathematical answer to this, that I'm missing.)

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Third Question: Are the quest rewards ever worth it? Or are they too xp-expensive for the gear they return?

[Futon]

Okay, my second question is refreshingly non-philosophical:

Why farm equipment that I know I'm going to replace?

Yes, I can one-shot rats in Morogdar's Den, and so farming in Lanibod's Crypt (my current highest map) is more "expensive" in terms of xp gains. But since I plan to fully replace, eventually, the Morog's Den equipment, then isn't that actually "wasted" xp, making it more expensive in the long run? Unless I truly need that equipment now, why not spend the xp, however inefficiently, toward farming gear I'll eventually be farming anyway?




Why not farm only the highest level gear, regardless of the xp gains, because that's the gear I'll be able to use the longest?

(Once again, this is a question not a challenge -- I'm assuming there is a good mathematical answer to this, that I'm missing.)

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Third Question: Are the quest rewards ever worth it? Or are they too xp-expensive for the gear they return?

It really depends on how many allies you plan to have so how many units you need to equip.

Let's say you have 200 energy, this strategy suggests you farm the 20 energy rat 10 times for a chance at 5/5 armor. You want to kill the 50 energy rat for 10/10 armor. Even with 100% drop rate 10x 5/5 =50/50, 4x10/10=40/40. Now these numbers are completely made up, but the point is to equip all your units with decent gear, not just a few with great gear and the rest with crap gear. It's also a way to slow down your leveling so that you stay ahead of your peers in average gear/stats to level.

I only use the strategy when I've farmed myself the best Hero Equipment available. I have to equip 141 units, to do that with your strategy would take forever and you'd end up leveling to fast which would just make it that much worse.

Edit: For your third question it depends. I realized my economy and army att/def were way to behind for my level so i stopped questing until i catch back up. You level way faster when you quest, so if you think you're weak i'd stop questing.

Edit again : They did just raise the level cap though so i'm not sure how much it matters now. Level cap 75.

[NeonBlue]

I have to equip 141 units, to do that with your strategy would take forever and you'd end up leveling to fast which would just make it that much worse.

I'm still trying to grasp the math of this. Let me use some fake-math to ask my question (all numbers are made up, don't try to match them to actual gear or levels):

Let's say that to fully equip your army with 4/2 weapons, if you do it the most xp-efficient way possible (all one-shots), will cost you 100 xp. At that point you will have gained a level, upgraded your Hero Strength, and you are now able to one-shot things that drop 5/3 weapons, so you begin farming those. That will cost you 200 xp to fully equip your army with.

In the meantime, I said "to heck with it" and skipped the 4/2 weapons. Instead of spending 100 xp there, I flailed inefficiently at the 5/3 farming. I spent my 100 xp and I only got a quarter of the equipment I need.

But...now you and I are both farming 5/3 weapons, and we both gained 100 xp and are at the same level. I, however, already have 1/4 of my army geared up with 5/3, and you are starting over at 0. So you will now need to spend 200 xp for that 5/3 equipment, and I only need to spend another 150 xp (because I already got 1/4 of what I need).

Doesn't that put me ahead, with the only risk being that I was lower-geared during our farming spree?

[Futon]

It depends on how much 4/2 he got more than you while you were farming 5/3.

If you need to farm for 100 units. And you can farm 10 pieces of gear with 100xp or 5 pieces of gear with 100xp which is better? Using your stats 10x 4/2 = 40/20 and 5x 5/3 = 25/15 see the problem? Unless your army is tiny it's just not efficient to farm for the best of the best all the time. You should farm for your best hero weapon/armor and then whatever is most efficient.

So if you can spend 10 energy for a chance at 4/2 or spend 20 energy for a chance at 5/3... the 4/2 is more efficient by a lot.

[John Snow]

I'm still trying to grasp the math of this. Let me use some fake-math to ask my question (all numbers are made up, don't try to match them to actual gear or levels):

Let's say that to fully equip your army with 4/2 weapons, if you do it the most xp-efficient way possible (all one-shots), will cost you 100 xp. At that point you will have gained a level, upgraded your Hero Strength, and you are now able to one-shot things that drop 5/3 weapons, so you begin farming those. That will cost you 200 xp to fully equip your army with.

In the meantime, I said "to heck with it" and skipped the 4/2 weapons. Instead of spending 100 xp there, I flailed inefficiently at the 5/3 farming. I spent my 100 xp and I only got a quarter of the equipment I need.

But...now you and I are both farming 5/3 weapons, and we both gained 100 xp and are at the same level. I, however, already have 1/4 of my army geared up with 5/3, and you are starting over at 0. So you will now need to spend 200 xp for that 5/3 equipment, and I only need to spend another 150 xp (because I already got 1/4 of what I need).

Doesn't that put me ahead, with the only risk being that I was lower-geared during our farming spree?

The relative strengths of your economies are going to also play a role here because any income disparity could either be the equalizer or launch you much farther ahead since you could simply purchase equipment.