Wrong ROI in Money Buildings spreadsheet

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Thread: Wrong ROI in Money Buildings spreadsheet

  1. #1
    Steady Scribe
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    Wrong ROI in Money Buildings spreadsheet

    The ROI calculations are wrong in the infamous Money Buildings spreadsheet found here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...US&pli=1#gid=0

    Basic explanation of the current formula

    The formula that it's using is:

    Building Time + (Cost of Upgrade / (Old Hourly Income - New Hourly Income))

    This is pretty straight forward. What it is figuring out is: How long after you start the upgrade will you have paid for its cost? Take the build time (you haven't started paying down the upgrade while you're waiting for it) and add the amount of time it will take for you to recover the money you spent upgrading the building given the incremental increase to income.

    For example, if the building previously made you $10/hour and after the upgrade it makes you $20/hour, you are making $10/hour more than you were before. Suppose the upgrade took 2 hours and cost $50, the ROI with this calculation is 2 + (50/10) = 7 hours.

    What's missing

    This fails to take into account a substantial cost that is associated with performing the upgrade: the lost income while the upgrade is underway. In the example above, you would have made $20 in those first 2 hours if you had not upgraded the building at all, so the cost of upgrading the building is not actually just the $50 face value. It's the $50 face value plus $20 of lost income. Let me demonstrate with some basic math:

    If I upgrade: I spend $50 initially, then make $0/hour for 2 hours and then $20/hour for 5 hours. In 7 hours I have 20 * 5 - 50 = $50 more than when I started.
    If I don't upgrade: I spend $0, then make $10/hour for 7 hours. In 7 hours I have 10 * 7 - 0 = $70 more than when I started.

    The actual ROI formula should expand out the "Cost of Upgrade" to include the lost income while the upgrade is underway:

    Building Time + ((Cost of Upgrade + (Building Time * Old Hourly Income)) / (Old Hourly Income - New Hourly Income))

    An actual example

    In general this difference shouldn't be that big though, right? Wrong. Consider the upgrade for the Laundromat from level 5 to level 6. For simplicity I'll do the math with non-tycoon. The upgrade takes 12 hours, costs $1298 and raises the hourly income from $900 to $1320. The cost that the current formula takes into account is the flat cost of the upgrade or $1298. The cost that my formula takes into account include the $900/hour that you aren't making for 12 hours for a total of $12098. The cost of doing the upgrade is 9.32 times higher than the current formula accounts for... 9.32 times higher!!!

    If we calculate the final ROI using both formulas we get 15.09 hours with the current formula and 40.80 hours with my formula. That's 2.7 times higher than the current formula accounts for.

    Impact to optimal upgrade sequence

    If you look at the difference this has to the theoretically optimal upgrade order when starting out, it is drastically different. However, I'm not sure how substantial the difference is once you're farther into the game.

    Note: In terms of gold buildings, I included only the ice cream shop below because I don't intend on spending money, but I can get that one for free.

    Recommended upgrade order using incorrect ROI formula:

    Laundromat 2
    Laundromat 3
    Laundromat 4
    Laundromat 5
    Pizza Parlor 2
    Pizza Parlor 3
    Ice Cream Shop 2
    Laundromat 6
    Ice Cream Shop 3
    Pizza Parlor 4
    Ice Cream Shop 4
    Laundromat 7
    Gas Station 2

    Recommended upgrade order using the correct ROI formula:

    Laundromat 2
    Laundromat 3
    Laundromat 4
    Pizza Parlor 2
    Pizza Parlor 3
    Ice Cream Shop 3
    Pizza Parlor 4
    Laundromat 5
    Gas Station 2
    Gas Station 3
    Ice Cream Shop 4
    Deli 2
    Souvenir Store 2

  2. #2
    Consistent Contributor BeniBugatti's Avatar
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    Focusing on rapid income growth $/hr per upgrade hour will get you further along faster than focusing on ROI. That said, when cash is low, using ROI as your primary decision metric makes sense, until you can afford the next high growth upgrade.

  3. #3
    Steady Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeniBugatti View Post
    Focusing on rapid income growth $/hr per upgrade hour will get you further along faster than focusing on ROI. That said, when cash is low, using ROI as your primary decision metric makes sense, until you can afford the next high growth upgrade.
    Good advice! I'll start factoring that column into my upgrade decisions. That doesn't change the drastic inaccuracy of the ROI calculations though.

  4. #4
    Prominent Poet i need muney's Avatar
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    I think this is valid. Who's maintaining the doc?
    Pay the game the way it's meant to be payed!

  5. #5
    Master of Musings Dreno33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeniBugatti View Post
    Focusing on rapid income growth $/hr per upgrade hour will get you further along faster than focusing on ROI. That said, when cash is low, using ROI as your primary decision metric makes sense, until you can afford the next high growth upgrade.
    +1

    stole the words out of my mouth
    I haven't played since 2012... I heard there was inflation since, lol.
    NAME LVL BONUS INCOME ATT : DEF
    MW Dreno33 60 UK 3XX,XXX,XXX 66,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX : 68,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX
    CC TheDreno33 62 Tycoon 70,XXX,XXX 9,XXX,XXX,XXX : 7,XXX,XXX,XXX
    GREE bought Funzio's games for $210 Million! Why?
    I downloaded it for free!

  6. #6
    Steady Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by i need muney View Post
    I think this is valid. Who's maintaining the doc?
    It is. Bump.

  7. #7
    Steady Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by i need muney View Post
    I think this is valid. Who's maintaining the doc?
    Any chance it was Tramp Stamp?

  8. #8
    Prominent Poet CounterSniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinqs View Post
    Any chance it was Tramp Stamp?
    No........
    Though I Wander I Am Not Lost... ~ CS
    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women ~ Conan
    Quit CC on 5.16.12 .. lvl 146 .. Attacks 30339 Wins / 141 Losses .. Robberies 13838 Wins / 45 Losses
    Quit KA & MW on 7.06.12 .. Stats = Couldnt Care Less.
    FUNZIO got too GREEdy!

  9. #9
    Prominent Poet Tramp Stamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CounterSniper View Post
    No........
    You lie!

    Hey dudes. I was wondering when someone would notice this. Short story is duder and I had a fight, duder won, and I said I'd change the formula because I was wrong. I meant to change to the formula jinqs said but for some reason I didn't and used TLoord's old formula, with the intention of fixing it later. Well, I quit soon afterwards. From what I'm reading through the skimming I'm doing, it seems itzakakarot (and maybe nosepicker) has Super Saiya-jined over 9000 with his own macro-enabled spreadsheets so mine is probably out of fashion, but if you're still interested send me an email either via Funzio PM or via the "Share" link in Google Docs and I'll grant you write access or even ownership of the spreadsheet.

    P.S. the quotes in my signature are hilarious. I thought this is why I was banned, so I wonder why they weren't pruned.

  10. #10
    Master of Musings Ghost818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramp Stamp View Post
    You lie!

    Hey dudes. I was wondering when someone would notice this. Short story is duder and I had a fight, duder won, and I said I'd change the formula because I was wrong. I meant to change to the formula jinqs said but for some reason I didn't and used TLoord's old formula, with the intention of fixing it later. Well, I quit soon afterwards. From what I'm reading through the skimming I'm doing, it seems itzakakarot (and maybe nosepicker) has Super Saiya-jined over 9000 with his own macro-enabled spreadsheets so mine is probably out of fashion, but if you're still interested send me an email either via Funzio PM or via the "Share" link in Google Docs and I'll grant you write access or even ownership of the spreadsheet.

    P.S. the quotes in my signature are hilarious. I thought this is why I was banned, so I wonder why they weren't pruned.
    Hi ._. .........
    CC Ghost Level: 156 Attack: 56,885 Defense: 61,046 Income: $334,914

    KA Ghost Level: 50 Attack: 12,178 Defense: 16,051 Income: 2570
    293-015-965


    New Concept - Event With Teams Thread

    Kingdom Age iOS Beginners Guide

    Et Tu Brute?

    Nothing Changes Unless You Make It Change

    Where I Come From, People Don't Talk Unless They Have Something To Say

    Power Resides Where Men Believe It Resides

  11. #11
    Consistent Contributor
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    It's always great when you swing by, TS. Good to see you surface for a moment!

  12. #12
    Prominent Poet CounterSniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramp Stamp View Post
    You lie!

    Hey dudes. I was wondering when someone would notice this. Short story is duder and I had a fight, duder won, and I said I'd change the formula because I was wrong. I meant to change to the formula jinqs said but for some reason I didn't and used TLoord's old formula, with the intention of fixing it later. Well, I quit soon afterwards. From what I'm reading through the skimming I'm doing, it seems itzakakarot (and maybe nosepicker) has Super Saiya-jined over 9000 with his own macro-enabled spreadsheets so mine is probably out of fashion, but if you're still interested send me an email either via Funzio PM or via the "Share" link in Google Docs and I'll grant you write access or even ownership of the spreadsheet.

    P.S. the quotes in my signature are hilarious. I thought this is why I was banned, so I wonder why they weren't pruned.
    Sorry, I dont lie. You said before you left that duder was gonna maintain it.

    So how the hell you been TS! You missed us huh?
    Though I Wander I Am Not Lost... ~ CS
    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women ~ Conan
    Quit CC on 5.16.12 .. lvl 146 .. Attacks 30339 Wins / 141 Losses .. Robberies 13838 Wins / 45 Losses
    Quit KA & MW on 7.06.12 .. Stats = Couldnt Care Less.
    FUNZIO got too GREEdy!

  13. #13
    Master of Musings
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    LOL Tramp , why should they ban you over signature , they just wanted more soap

    He now you dropped by create some more soap , cause event is boring

  14. #14
    Prominent Poet Tramp Stamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost818 View Post
    Hi ._. .........
    Up yours! (Ban me again LOL)

    Quote Originally Posted by CounterSniper View Post
    Sorry, I dont lie. You said before you left that duder was gonna maintain it.
    Actually, I was hoping someone would volunteer with a forced hedge that someone named would take up the cause. I actually don't know what's true; I haven't looked at any of the spreadsheets since I quit so maybe everything is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by CounterSniper View Post
    So how the hell you been TS! You missed us huh?
    Someone notified me that I wasn't banned anymore and should post something, but I'm confused since I was sure the avatar or signature is what got me banned so I dunno why I can post now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dravak View Post
    LOL Tramp , why should they ban you over signature , they just wanted more soap

    He now you dropped by create some more soap , cause event is boring
    Well I think SOAP is [edited by FUNZIO] because I think XML is [edited by FUNZIO], though I guess I should be grateful because if it weren't for plists (binary encoded XML) then I would never have a leg to stand on in this game.

  15. #15
    Master of Musings
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    Mar 2012
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    Sometimes I wonder if we all not play for funzio without getting paid lol .

    See event stinks big time they just reused the damn dice events , screw up the rewards by letting credit card slip in.
    Then watch people go for it , since dice was almost a free give away for all ..

    Then you show up we are happy again lol , so they can't ban you yet LOL .
    Need to draw out the soap a bit

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