New Hardcore Boss - cheating player or cheating Gree. - Page 3

GREE

DECAGAMES Forum - Powered by vBulletin
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 50

Thread: New Hardcore Boss - cheating player or cheating Gree.

  1. #31
    Consistent Contributor
    Member Since
    Dec 2011
    Post Count
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by [PM] President Hightower View Post
    I wanted to stop by an point out that there are 3 tiers of Hardcore units in the store. I wouldn't recommend using the highest tier to kill the easiest bosses. They are awful expensive when you don't need that much power.
    Hightower, thx for stopping by but I've needed the tanks to out score the people in my tier. I have used a few gold hits on day 1 with 60 tanks in order to come in first. It would be great if I didn't have to but if you want 1st place you do what you have to. With my IPH the cost of tanks is irrelevant. That's not me suggesting you raise the price either just saying that people with accounts 4+ years old having money shouldn't be an issue.

    Also, please don't take this wrong but your statement shows some of the disconnect between players and gree. By your logic I would buy auroras in FL too because they are cheaper. That's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. We buy and use the best units we can to give us the greatest opportunity to win. Heck even lower lvl accounts can raid for income to buy units for HCB or FL. Maybe I've read to much into your comment but it seems your idea of how to play the game and my idea of how to play it are very different.

  2. #32
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Post Count
    4,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Edbl79 View Post
    Also I don't understand the comment about gree taking the original ones from you. They are lost throughout HCB and during any pvp attack, with something like a 76% chance of losing at least one. I know Hightower said that they are like 2% but that's 2% per unit and someone smarter than me figured out that a loss rate 2% per unit means you have a 76% chance of losing one. If you have a lvl 300 acct you should be flush with cash. Building output was a dominant prize 8-12 months ago and I would suspect you've played long enough to have a decent economy. Either way it's fake cash. What else would you use it for?
    I don't think you were around back in 2012 when Funzio had the Stealth Frigate fiasco. They did something similar to the tanks where they screwed up the values of the unit, then without saying anything cranked up the loss rate in order for those that took advantage of this screw up lost them all thus eliminating any potential advantage they got from this mistake.

    I see the same thing with the tanks, once they figured out how badly they screwed up they drastically increased the loss rates (note that they said something that appeared to be completely different) so that those that took advantage of their mistake would loose them at ridiculous rates. Note also the 'Display Error' for that new high stat unit that on IOS said it had a low casualty rate when in fact it had a medium rate as stated on Android. I bought a few of them not many and lost all of them very quickly so I said screw this.

    In terms of IPH, I discovered years ago that being a non gold spender and having a nice tasty group of targets on my base was a huge mistake so I actually have very low IPH for my oldest players because they cannot hold onto anything they produce because they are not strong enough for their level. This has greatly increased due to stat inflation. On my newest players starting from scratch I do employ a totally different strategy but on my oldest highest level players I try and leave my bases dark. Only time I light up a cash building is when I swipe across my base and the bloody game lights it up for me by accident because of the way it's designed.

    I figured out why your experience is so different from my findings, you're only basing what you see on your one account. That's ok, I see why you are experiencing what you are, it's because the game tracks your gold purchases (it's been a stat that has been tracked since the game came out in Nov 2011 and CS see's it and tends to base it's level of support on how much you spend). Years ago we tested this by manually bumping up this stat from low spender to top spender. But I have the funny feeling that you are getting hosed because that stat is getting used to set your matches. Think about it, the app matches top spenders against each other, what a lovely way to maximize YOUR spending….. So no doubt you need to at some point open up the old wallet in order to stay in 1st place. So really it is likely to some degree that your points are based on your Attack strength, though how do we know it is only based on your top 60 units or those cash units? Granted from what I saw when I was losing them it does appear that the consumption of each unit does add to your points so in that respect yes they do factor in.

    This likely fits into what HT stated.

    Now in my case since I don't spend my matches are a lot different and the other factor that now comes into play is that I get matched up with less active (read low spending) players. Therefore I can easily get by winning these matches without those units. I've tested this theory across about 30 of my players who have very very different levels and stats as well as army composition. Note that there is one other component of my strategy that I won't disclose here because you know who will 'fix' it.

    Now in your case I'm going to guess that the deck got stacked on you right out of the gate if you started on day 1 and raced through the bosses. You would have seen the results of this on day 2. Did your matches get a lot tougher??? Also in doing so will you hit a wall on day 4 where you will need gold fills to score points….. if so GOTCHA….

    The other GOTCHA is the intentional omission of the faction goal on day one with it starting late. Might not see this effect on the first 3 days but on the final day when you start needing to use gold to complete the goal……

    It really starts to make me wonder just how incompetent they are or actually how clever in that they lull us into this false sense that they are a bunch of doofuses so we discount the fact that they can pull these things over on us…..
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  3. #33
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Post Count
    4,023
    Whoops actually you were, ok sorry.

    One other comment, back in the day one of the things we used to do in Japan was something called Keeping it on the Tone. Cars have a buzzer built in that warns you that you have exceeded a preset top speed of 100 kph.

    Now spinning it back to what Dew says about the spending light always on, I have this vision of the project manager at gree- HQ and a light on their desk. As spending increases it glows brighter and as it decreases it gets dim. I think the insiders call it the 'sucker' light….
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  4. #34
    Steady Scribe
    Member Since
    Mar 2013
    Post Count
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
    I don't think you were around back in 2012 when Funzio had the Stealth Frigate fiasco. They did something similar to the tanks where they screwed up the values of the unit, then without saying anything cranked up the loss rate in order for those that took advantage of this screw up lost them all thus eliminating any potential advantage they got from this mistake.

    I see the same thing with the tanks, once they figured out how badly they screwed up they drastically increased the loss rates (note that they said something that appeared to be completely different) so that those that took advantage of their mistake would loose them at ridiculous rates. Note also the 'Display Error' for that new high stat unit that on IOS said it had a low casualty rate when in fact it had a medium rate as stated on Android. I bought a few of them not many and lost all of them very quickly so I said screw this.

    In terms of IPH, I discovered years ago that being a non gold spender and having a nice tasty group of targets on my base was a huge mistake so I actually have very low IPH for my oldest players because they cannot hold onto anything they produce because they are not strong enough for their level. This has greatly increased due to stat inflation. On my newest players starting from scratch I do employ a totally different strategy but on my oldest highest level players I try and leave my bases dark. Only time I light up a cash building is when I swipe across my base and the bloody game lights it up for me by accident because of the way it's designed.

    I figured out why your experience is so different from my findings, you're only basing what you see on your one account. That's ok, I see why you are experiencing what you are, it's because the game tracks your gold purchases (it's been a stat that has been tracked since the game came out in Nov 2011 and CS see's it and tends to base it's level of support on how much you spend). Years ago we tested this by manually bumping up this stat from low spender to top spender. But I have the funny feeling that you are getting hosed because that stat is getting used to set your matches. Think about it, the app matches top spenders against each other, what a lovely way to maximize YOUR spending….. So no doubt you need to at some point open up the old wallet in order to stay in 1st place. So really it is likely to some degree that your points are based on your Attack strength, though how do we know it is only based on your top 60 units or those cash units? Granted from what I saw when I was losing them it does appear that the consumption of each unit does add to your points so in that respect yes they do factor in.

    This likely fits into what HT stated.

    Now in my case since I don't spend my matches are a lot different and the other factor that now comes into play is that I get matched up with less active (read low spending) players. Therefore I can easily get by winning these matches without those units. I've tested this theory across about 30 of my players who have very very different levels and stats as well as army composition. Note that there is one other component of my strategy that I won't disclose here because you know who will 'fix' it.

    Now in your case I'm going to guess that the deck got stacked on you right out of the gate if you started on day 1 and raced through the bosses. You would have seen the results of this on day 2. Did your matches get a lot tougher??? Also in doing so will you hit a wall on day 4 where you will need gold fills to score points….. if so GOTCHA….

    The other GOTCHA is the intentional omission of the faction goal on day one with it starting late. Might not see this effect on the first 3 days but on the final day when you start needing to use gold to complete the goal……

    It really starts to make me wonder just how incompetent they are or actually how clever in that they lull us into this false sense that they are a bunch of doofuses so we discount the fact that they can pull these things over on us…..
    you are most likely right. It also wouldn't be the biggest shock if they matched those with records of spending gold to dummy accounts that are programmed to keep figures close, go ahead in last hour or so and encourage those who want to win to spend big.

  5. #35
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Post Count
    4,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_Elite View Post
    you are most likely right. It also wouldn't be the biggest shock if they matched those with records of spending gold to dummy accounts that are programmed to keep figures close, go ahead in last hour or so and encourage those who want to win to spend big.
    Excellent point.
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  6. #36
    Development Team
    Member Since
    Dec 2015
    Post Count
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by Edbl79 View Post
    Hightower, thx for stopping by but I've needed the tanks to out score the people in my tier. I have used a few gold hits on day 1 with 60 tanks in order to come in first. It would be great if I didn't have to but if you want 1st place you do what you have to. With my IPH the cost of tanks is irrelevant. That's not me suggesting you raise the price either just saying that people with accounts 4+ years old having money shouldn't be an issue.

    Also, please don't take this wrong but your statement shows some of the disconnect between players and gree. By your logic I would buy auroras in FL too because they are cheaper. That's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. We buy and use the best units we can to give us the greatest opportunity to win. Heck even lower lvl accounts can raid for income to buy units for HCB or FL. Maybe I've read to much into your comment but it seems your idea of how to play the game and my idea of how to play it are very different.
    You are correct since having a higher attack does give you more points. I'm simply offering an alternative solution to what might feel like wasting the tanks. But you're right that a higher level, older account would not care about the cash spent on those tanks.

    @Agent Orange,

    We did not raise destruction rates. We lowered them. In fact, they are 5x lower than when they were first released. The display of "medium" was only added so that players would realize that it was a higher rate than other units that said "low" (and always was).

  7. #37
    Prominent Poet DEWIN NUTTIN's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    Location
    In da NUT hole
    Main Game
    Modern War
    Post Count
    2,381
    Quote Originally Posted by [PM] President Hightower View Post


    We did not raise destruction rates. We lowered them. In fact, they are 5x lower than when they were first released. The display of "medium" was only added so that players would realize that it was a higher rate than other units that said "low" (and always was).

    Why not make the destruction rate VERY LOW?

    It would certainly be more profitable for your firm and easier for those using gold.
    It would allow more time for tapping, less time for refilling.
    In this scenario, no real cash is exchanged when purchasing the units.
    Real cash is expended, however, anytime gold is deployed and consumed.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    For those choosing not to use gold, again, how does making you units perishable benefit THEGREE or the tapper?
    ANSWER: It doesn't. It only irritates the tapper by being forced to incessantly refill the units consumed.

    DTRT = DO THE RIGHT THING
    It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

    The SPENDING LAMP is ALWAYS lit in ALL GREE GAMES.
    SPEND it, if you got any left.

    Jesse “The Body” Ventura said, “Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!”

    In the words of Bobby Heenan: "The money's the same, whether you earn it or scam it.
    "

  8. #38
    Consistent Contributor
    Member Since
    Dec 2011
    Post Count
    128
    While I'm not saying the matchup theory is wrong and I do have gold on my account I would define myself as a light spender. I've never been in the gold program and a vault lasts me months only really ever using it for health packs during WD and most recently during HCB to win a day. If they are matching based on gold use it's likely unbalanced as my use of 2-3 refills on day 1or2 to come in first isn't happening on day 3&4 because I've been blown out on those days and resort to cash only with the goal of killing 100 bosses overall. And the only reason for some gold is to get the measly 1% alliance attack once or twice during the event since the only boost that has an impact to my stats since the new units were realeased is alliance a/d or an air unit. No other boost moves the needle since I bring 3000+ air units to battle

  9. #39
    Development Team
    Member Since
    Dec 2015
    Post Count
    352
    @Edbl79:A couple of points in reply:

    1) Matchmaking is based on your cumulative points earned up to this point, for the current event only.
    2) You only bring your top 60 units to Hardcore Boss battles. No bonuses are applied, only Attack power.

    @DEWIN NUTTIN
    1) The destruction rate is set to a value as low as any unit with the VERY LOW setting. However, the Hardcore units are unaffected by Casualty Rate Reduction so the rate ends up feeling much higher in the end. For this reason we made the display say "MEDIUM". I do understand your point, though. All values are subject to change, rebalance, etc. We'll look into it now that we've run a few events.
    Last edited by [PM] President Hightower; 04-27-2016 at 02:11 PM.

  10. #40
    Banned
    Member Since
    May 2014
    Post Count
    1,625
    Hightower- are you guys looking into the constant crashing? Because if it it is literally worthless to try and compete in any event. I hit one or two bosses and it crashes. Go back in hit 1 boss it crashes.

  11. #41
    Verbose Veteran Brown Out's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 2011
    Post Count
    550
    Wish there was a way to chat with the people you're matched against.
    Sure I could generate gold sales with my trash talk.

  12. #42
    Banned
    Member Since
    May 2014
    Post Count
    1,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Out View Post
    Wish there was a way to chat with the people you're matched against.
    Sure I could generate gold sales with my trash talk.

    I'd agree to this if Gree could actually program it without it being screwed up. FL chat barely works if it works at all. It would add s nice feature to the game. I say this pretending that the game wouldnt crash all the time.

  13. #43
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Post Count
    4,023
    Quote Originally Posted by [PM] President Hightower View Post
    @Edbl79:A couple of points in reply:

    1) Matchmaking is based on your cumulative points earned up to this point, for the current event only.
    2) You only bring your top 60 units to Hardcore Boss battles. No bonuses are applied, only Attack power.

    @DEWIN NUTTIN
    1) The destruction rate is set to a value as low as any unit with the VERY LOW setting. However, the Hardcore units are unaffected by Casualty Rate Reduction so the rate ends up feeling much higher in the end. For this reason we made the display say "MEDIUM". I do understand your point, though. All values are subject to change, rebalance, etc. We'll look into it now that we've run a few events.
    Thanks for the clarification. Matching does appear to work as you described.

    So basically it's not worth buying these units if your already have higher stat units in your inventory since they mght be bumped out of the 60 you bring to battle. Interesting...

    So does this mean that after the first HB the units being lost no longer factor into your points?
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  14. #44
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Post Count
    4,023
    Quote Originally Posted by [PM] President Hightower View Post
    You are correct since having a higher attack does give you more points. I'm simply offering an alternative solution to what might feel like wasting the tanks. But you're right that a higher level, older account would not care about the cash spent on those tanks.

    @Agent Orange,

    We did not raise destruction rates. We lowered them. In fact, they are 5x lower than when they were first released. The display of "medium" was only added so that players would realize that it was a higher rate than other units that said "low" (and always was).
    Hmm ok, your comment to Dew puts it into better perspective. As I saw it these units worked the same as any other in that your boosts also applied. Plus the fact that initially it was very misleading seeing them originally rated as low consumption on IOS when they certainly didn't react in battles that way.

    Given this new information it seems illogical to buy these things.
    Modern War
    IOS - Agent Orange - ID 863 440 860
    Free player
    Playing since 11/08/2011
    Level 240+

    Android - Agent Orange -ID 179 321 004
    Free Player since 7/18/12
    Level 33+

    War of Nations - Agent Orange - Quit the game
    Free Player since 5/30/13

  15. #45
    Consistent Contributor
    Member Since
    Dec 2011
    Post Count
    128
    They are the strongest units you can buy, the tanks are anyway. How is it illogical to buy them in an event that success is point driven and the units with the highest attack stats get you the most points per hit? Buying them and having at least 60 seems like the best scenario for success. How do you win by scoring fewer points per kill?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •