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  1. #1

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    Official complain against Gree

    I post it also here so Gree is notified through all of their customer contact points.

    Gree GmbH
    Legal department
    Leipziger Straße 125
    10117 Berlin
    Germany

    Amsterdam, 14 December 2015

    In regard to:

    Knights & Dragons, the lack of support of players and the lack of fixing bugs that disturb the game play.

    Dear Gree,

    For almost a year now Gree is not supporting clients, players, as customers can expect
    from a business, like Gree. Support employees are not even reading the complains but
    send a standard “Is the issue resolved?” mail. If the customer tells it's has not been
    resolved, they have to wait for several weeks to get an answer. That answer almost
    always tells that they couldn't find any issue on the game server, so according to
    support and Gree there is no issue to be resolved.

    First, the first meaningful reaction after several weeks is not what a customer of Gree
    can and should expect from a company. Secondly, the game is only partial handled by
    the servers, a great deal of the game is handled by the client, the app on the phone or
    tablet of the player. An app build and maintained by Gree and associates. An answer
    that the problem cannot be located on the server is not even remotely adequate.
    Support can and should not only look at one side of the issue, the server side, but
    at the total issue, including the client side the app on the clients phone or tablet.

    It's even worse. Complaining customers are banned from speaking on the forum.
    Topics with complains are closed by moderators. Moderators appointed by Gree.
    Or the complaining customer is actively silenced by banning him from the forum.

    Players can and should expect adequate support from Gree, not be ignored or
    even silenced by Gree. For several months now Gree isn't delivering the support
    clients of Gree can expect from Gree.

    On the second issue, bugs that disturb game play. Knights & Dragons is described
    by Gree as a “non-stop action role playing game” a game where you "forge
    stunning armors", where “Glory goes to the kingdom with the best armory.”
    Regrettably that is not the case. For over a year several customers have complained
    to Gree that epic fights no longer are about the best knights, the best armors, but
    about the best network, the most contacts, the largest alliance.

    The easiest way to fight for the last year is the guild master undressing to a older
    armor while the opposing guild score maximum points. By players called "naked
    fighting or stripped fighting." This is not what Knights & Dragon is about as can be
    seen from the description of the game.

    This "naked or stripped fighting "has drove the cost for playing Knights & Dragons
    for players up to extremes. Yes, it may be beneficial for Gree and associates, but
    is not in the spirit of the game as described by Gree itself. So players can and
    should expect Gree to fix this bug. Yet complaining customers are ignored, even
    silenced and the bug still isn't fixed.

    Again this is not acceptable from a company like Gree. Knights & Dragons is a service,
    players can expect, by law and regulations in the EU and USA, that Gree provides
    players with an adequate service and support. Yet for the last year Gree doesn't
    comply to even the most basic service towards the customer can expect even demand.

    Then towards the questions Knights and Dragon players, customers of Gree have.

    When and how does Gree expect to bring up the support of Knights and Dragons to
    standards players can expect from Gree? When and how does Gree expect to comply
    to laws and regulations in regard to customers in Europe and the USA?

    When and how does Gree expect to bring the game play in accordance to the game
    play as described by Gree and expected by the player.

    In accordance to EU regulations you have till 24 December 2015 to answer these questions
    and start fixing the described issues. If not we will proceed with an official complaint against Gree.

    A copy of this letter has been submitted at Google Netherlands and the Authority for
    Consumers and Markets.

    Yours sincerely,


    Name
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  2. #2
    roookey1's Avatar
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    Basically you're saying that the whole system the game is built upon (stripping and paying to win armors just to strip them again to reduce the fees for winning, you didn't even mention the garbage chests) is rigged and that the customer service is shyte.

    I couldn't agree more and have thus stopped spending for this game that turns more mediocre, buggy and ripoff by the week months ago. I have even stopped watching those stupid videos to make gems. Now I'm only spending 20-30 minutes per week on it anymore and just waiting for the moment when my armor can't win against anyone anymore. And funnily enough, I start to enjoy reading all this crap about those thousands of people per week complaining about having to deal with the same bugs, getting offended by false advertising and shyte 'rewards' etc.etc. - it doesn't affect me anymore, just makes me shake my head about the stupid and lame ducks customers seem to have become (and my own until a few months ago). I'm seriously surprised Gree never had to deal with a class action lawsuit in the States. How many millions must they have made from people trying to deal with the bugs, delays, disappeared armors, false advertisements etc. alone?

    So the question remains: why are you even still playing? Is it the cash you have spent so far? Then at least be honest and stop to continue spending for this bad product.


    p.s. I can't agree about Gree banning criticism though. I didn't encounter that, none of my own posts have been removed so far, and I've criticised them pretty harrd in the past.
    Last edited by roookey1; 12-17-2015 at 09:44 AM.

  3. #3

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    I agree but until the players actually file a lawsuit and force the changes nothing ever will happen. It is no surprise to anyone that Gree has horrible customer service and why would they change now. They have exploited players to max gains and mostly all players come here or FB to complain.

    When has that actually work, besides the time they changed top25 armors in wars, but it still changes nothing. In order to make a company listen, is to take it aways its revenue stream.

    File with the BBB, players file a suit. This day and age, I guarantee that there are lawyers who would take this case and would only want to pay at the backend, meaning they take a portion of the winnings, but there would be no cost to you,

    Complaining on a dead forum or on a lame attempt on their FB produces nothing. Action and not words will force change. And so far, there has been action on the side of the players to force change.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by roookey1 View Post
    [...]

    Basically you're saying that the whole system the game is built upon (stripping and paying to win armors just to strip them again to reduce the fees for winning, you didn't even mention the garbage chests) is rigged and that the customer service is shyte.

    So the question remains: why are you even still playing? Is it the cash you have spent so far? Then at least be honest and stop to continue spending for this bad product.


    p.s. I can't agree about Gree banning criticism though. I didn't encounter that, none of my own posts have been removed so far, and I've criticised them pretty harrd in the past.
    On stripping
    I address especially stripping because it goes directly against their own description of the game. So it's clearly misleading advertising or its a bug they do not fix because it's profitable. In both cases its not a service customers can and may expect.

    Why I'm still playing
    The money is no concern to me. I spend it and had fun playing, but I can't accept that a business isn't even attempting to provide the player with even the most basic of service. If you look at the statement Andrew Sheppard made, its very obvious that they stopped development of K&D, so only IUGO is keeping the game alive. Then the sacking of 30+% of staff in Vancouver and SF they can't even provide us with even the basic support.

    On banning

    Look at my history and you'll find an example. Then I have been banned and strangely the ban was lifted before the it finished without any explanation.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Calling View Post
    I agree but until the players actually file a lawsuit and force the changes nothing ever will happen. It is no surprise to anyone that Gree has horrible customer service and why would they change now. They have exploited players to max gains and mostly all players come here or FB to complain.

    When has that actually work, besides the time they changed top25 armors in wars, but it still changes nothing. In order to make a company listen, is to take it aways its revenue stream.

    File with the BBB, players file a suit. This day and age, I guarantee that there are lawyers who would take this case and would only want to pay at the backend, meaning they take a portion of the winnings, but there would be no cost to you,

    Complaining on a dead forum or on a lame attempt on their FB produces nothing. Action and not words will force change. And so far, there has been action on the side of the players to force change.
    The forum post is a copy of the complain send to Gree Germany. A lawsuit starts with building a case. All of this belongs to building that case.
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  5. #5
    roookey1's Avatar
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    ok, points taken. I understand!

  6. #6
    RAMNUTS's Avatar
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    Exclamation Lost account for android phone___please help

    I have lost my android phone. I do not know my or remember my alliance code. how do I restore my account! thx

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbeard View Post
    On stripping
    I address especially stripping because it goes directly against their own description of the game. So it's clearly misleading advertising or its a bug they do not fix because it's profitable. In both cases its not a service customers can and may expect.

    Why I'm still playing
    The money is no concern to me. I spend it and had fun playing, but I can't accept that a business isn't even attempting to provide the player with even the most basic of service. If you look at the statement Andrew Sheppard made, its very obvious that they stopped development of K&D, so only IUGO is keeping the game alive. Then the sacking of 30+% of staff in Vancouver and SF they can't even provide us with even the basic support.

    On banning

    Look at my history and you'll find an example. Then I have been banned and strangely the ban was lifted before the it finished without any explanation.


    The forum post is a copy of the complain send to Gree Germany. A lawsuit starts with building a case. All of this belongs to building that case.


    I did not mean to come off as attacking you. My rant was to follow along to your letter. It is a great start and you are right, building a case will take time and it always better to gather your intel before launching.

    Once again was only agreeing with you did not mean to come off "douchy"

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Calling View Post
    I did not mean to come off as attacking you. My rant was to follow along to your letter. It is a great start and you are right, building a case will take time and it always better to gather your intel before launching.

    Once again was only agreeing with you did not mean to come off "douchy"
    I didn't see it as attacking me. It gave me an opportunity to go deeper into the action I am taking.

    Gree, and many other game app companies, forget they offer a service towards consumers. They tend to ignore complains hoping it will go away. Gree in particular seems to ignore all complains and don't even maintain the most basic support of the player, the consumer.

    What Gree also forgets is that they have customers outside the USA and Japan. The EU has on some areas better consumer protection then for instance the USA. For example Google's disclaimer that they are not liable for sales through the App store and that you should turn to the app maker is not accepted in the EU. Google knows this and know it will not hold in any EU court. They take it as a calculated risk.

    So Gree and Google take a risk when Gree refuse to give the consumer of their service the essential basic support. I have now so many replies from support where they haven't even looked at the mail I send that the evidence against Gree is overwhelming. Other evidence is the run around they give the consumer. Try the forum for help, when you do a moderator bans you. The moderator says you have to go to support for answers and solutions. Etc.
    In the end Gree hopes the player gives up and leaves the game. So they can rip off the next consumer.

    I will not and don't accept that Gree doesn't give me and other players the most basic support. So a complaint has been filed and in the end I got through to their lawyers. Google, Dutch and EU consumer protection agencies have also been kept in the loop and know what's going on.

    It will take months but in the end Gree will give us players the service the law demands of them or they will have to pay compensation and most of the time a pretty heavy fine.

    It will take months but the outcome is clear.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbeard View Post
    I didn't see it as attacking me. It gave me an opportunity to go deeper into the action I am taking.

    Gree, and many other game app companies, forget they offer a service towards consumers. They tend to ignore complains hoping it will go away. Gree in particular seems to ignore all complains and don't even maintain the most basic support of the player, the consumer.

    What Gree also forgets is that they have customers outside the USA and Japan. The EU has on some areas better consumer protection then for instance the USA. For example Google's disclaimer that they are not liable for sales through the App store and that you should turn to the app maker is not accepted in the EU. Google knows this and know it will not hold in any EU court. They take it as a calculated risk.

    So Gree and Google take a risk when Gree refuse to give the consumer of their service the essential basic support. I have now so many replies from support where they haven't even looked at the mail I send that the evidence against Gree is overwhelming. Other evidence is the run around they give the consumer. Try the forum for help, when you do a moderator bans you. The moderator says you have to go to support for answers and solutions. Etc.
    In the end Gree hopes the player gives up and leaves the game. So they can rip off the next consumer.

    I will not and don't accept that Gree doesn't give me and other players the most basic support. So a complaint has been filed and in the end I got through to their lawyers. Google, Dutch and EU consumer protection agencies have also been kept in the loop and know what's going on.

    It will take months but in the end Gree will give us players the service the law demands of them or they will have to pay compensation and most of the time a pretty heavy fine.

    It will take months but the outcome is clear.
    Finally, someone decides to take action against those Japanese scammers who prolly don't understand and are illiterate in English. I hope you can also post updates here and good luck! Hopefully GREE recognizes its arrogance, ignorance and greed. Happy Boxing Day, btw.
    Last edited by xWolfSlayerx; 12-26-2015 at 07:42 AM.

  10. #10
    roookey1's Avatar
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    Hey, great someone has the balls to do something against them! I have been lost as a paying customer for them already, just way too much B.S. for me to bear ... but you are actively doing something to fight for your rights and indeed, they seem to have knowingly mistreated and betrayed you and were hoping you'd just walk away and shut up.

    It still gives me headaches watching all those naive K&D newbies, posting their surprise and disappointment about all those countless little or bigger bugs that cost them money and valuable time, but still they even throw more money and time after that, trying to compensate themselves for the lost 'armors'/'gems'/whatever! Unbelievable. Of course, no response from Gree in the public groups, let alone, via private channels. That's how their business model works these days - just add more useless b.s. 'features' to the game like pets, food, introduce much stronger armors and make them even harder to upgrade etc. to squeeze the existing customers for even more $$$, and on top of that, let the customers beta test their software without ANYTHING in return, most of the times not even with a compensation for all the losses they had to experience through those bugs. This is a shame, really the worst of a company, and I hope they will get what they deserve one day.
    Last edited by roookey1; 12-26-2015 at 08:33 AM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbeard View Post
    I didn't see it as attacking me. It gave me an opportunity to go deeper into the action I am taking.

    Gree, and many other game app companies, forget they offer a service towards consumers.
    Nah, like many multinationals, they are probably of the opinion they offer a service towards their shareholders...
    And because of that kind of thinking, it's not surprising there's hardly any brand loyalty among consumers anymore.
    (heck, having more than 1 electronics device by the same brand is an exception for me)
    Android: GM of casual guild Macross (former Majestic member), mostly farming screenshots for the wiki now.
    Line-ID: marco-knd
    Still usable epics: Forgestone+/Ravage/Necro/Druid, Specter/Komodo
    if "boss fight is close" then "insert miss at the last moment" end
    Topic containing the all important armor etc. spreadsheet: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthre...Administration

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by roookey1 View Post
    Hey, great someone has the balls to do something against them! I have been lost as a paying customer for them already, just way too much B.S. for me to bear ... but you are actively doing something to fight for your rights and indeed, they seem to have knowingly mistreated and betrayed you and were hoping you'd just walk away and shut up.

    It still gives me headaches watching all those naive K&D newbies, posting their surprise and disappointment about all those countless little or bigger bugs that cost them money and valuable time, but still they even throw more money and time after that, trying to compensate themselves for the lost 'armors'/'gems'/whatever! Unbelievable. Of course, no response from Gree in the public groups, let alone, via private channels. That's how their business model works these days - just add more useless b.s. 'features' to the game like pets, food, introduce much stronger armors and make them even harder to upgrade etc. to squeeze the existing customers for even more $$$, and on top of that, let the customers beta test their software without ANYTHING in return, most of the times not even with a compensation for all the losses they had to experience through those bugs. This is a shame, really the worst of a company, and I hope they will get what they deserve one day.
    Oh, I'm just waiting for the day when they shut down and Knights & Dragons is handed over to another company, at least then we wouldn't have to worry about those ignorant scammers.

  13. #13
    SBBL Indigo's Avatar
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    Longbeard, I admire the fact you are trying to do something about this. My personal thought is Gree is completely out of its depth in terms of customer service, developers and management. They culled a ton of staff and shut an office, presumably in an attempt to save money, and in the process got rid of the ones who actually knew the game and the customer base. I have worked in offices before where they do not value knowledge and experience and get rid of longer serving staff in place of new people who cost less, but have no clue what they are doing. It's a false economy - as they saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys (I'm sure we have all seen the Gree Technical Support meme )

    The support has been getting progressively worse. It was never great, but there was a time you would eventually get a fix and the person who responded would at least reply with a related response. I submitted a ticket regarding my missing ring and amulet from T3 milestones in the spirit/water raid on 19th December and am yet to receive a response. When I do, I fully expect a generic 'we do not detect an issue in our game log' response. Despite me having provided several screenshots supporting my claim.

    I am at the point where I dare not even sign out of Game Center on my iPad for fear of losing my progress and most recent DFA+ armours. On my iPhone I am running 3 accounts, one of which is an EU account. As soon as I sign out of Game Center on that, it intermittently gives me a level 2 global account instead of my EU account and I have to reinstall the game 4-5 times to get it back.

    I don't think the Customer Service team are doing this deliberately to upset us, they're probably paid a pittance, with high staff turnover and no training. This is 100% the fault of the management.

    I wonder if we all got together and sent a mass complaint to Apple would we get anywhere. Presumably they are subject to the same rules as banks/bank card providers who have some culpability when goods are bought through their platform and not received.
    Indi RE
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBBL Indigo View Post
    Longbeard, I admire the fact you are trying to do something about this. My personal thought is Gree is completely out of its depth in terms of customer service, developers and management. They culled a ton of staff and shut an office, presumably in an attempt to save money, and in the process got rid of the ones who actually knew the game and the customer base. I have worked in offices before where they do not value knowledge and experience and get rid of longer serving staff in place of new people who cost less, but have no clue what they are doing. It's a false economy - as they saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys (I'm sure we have all seen the Gree Technical Support meme )

    The support has been getting progressively worse. It was never great, but there was a time you would eventually get a fix and the person who responded would at least reply with a related response. I submitted a ticket regarding my missing ring and amulet from T3 milestones in the spirit/water raid on 19th December and am yet to receive a response. When I do, I fully expect a generic 'we do not detect an issue in our game log' response. Despite me having provided several screenshots supporting my claim.

    I am at the point where I dare not even sign out of Game Center on my iPad for fear of losing my progress and most recent DFA+ armours. On my iPhone I am running 3 accounts, one of which is an EU account. As soon as I sign out of Game Center on that, it intermittently gives me a level 2 global account instead of my EU account and I have to reinstall the game 4-5 times to get it back.

    I don't think the Customer Service team are doing this deliberately to upset us, they're probably paid a pittance, with high staff turnover and no training. This is 100% the fault of the management.

    I wonder if we all got together and sent a mass complaint to Apple would we get anywhere. Presumably they are subject to the same rules as banks/bank card providers who have some culpability when goods are bought through their platform and not received.
    I agree with this, the company has a lot of potential but silly mistakes by the people in executive positions is what caused the company to lose the potential. I think that getting rid of the people who occupy the executive positions will help them become a better company and with us to actually enjoy the game. Preferably english-speaking executives who have a fair understanding of management or a masters in business or the programming. They should also rehire the CS currently as it stands, the CS is atrocious, incompetent, useless, pathetic, and many more words and adjectives that I would prefer not to say.

  15. #15
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    They have robbed me of armors and money twice, and also replied 'they can't find anything in the game log' every time each of which took me several emails in which I had to answer the same questions over and over again. Ridiculous.

    Well, after the 2nd time, they had lost me as a customer. I'm an adult and don't enjoy to get 'played' by some arrogant company management a*holes who are in fact responsible for the mess that is called 'KnD'.

    Luckily, better games are not hard to find on Google Play these days - also, games where you feel much more appreciated as customer. I'll never forget the month they called 'Customer Appreciation Month' though, that demonstrated pretty well - already a year ago! - how low they think even of their most loyal fans. And it didn't get better since then, it even got much worse! Frankly, with the disasters by then, who would have expected that to be possible?
    Not begging anyone to 'join my guild' since like ...ever.

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