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Thread: Epic boss

  1. #46
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-manKometh96 View Post
    I can't believe this. I agree with Rob. Unfrigginbelievable.
    Well that makes two of us, it is totally absurd to expect every player to complete every event because of such a huge difference in player strength. Granted sadly I find most of the posts of who Rob is responding to absurd.
    Last edited by Agent Orange; 12-03-2015 at 05:11 PM.
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  2. #47
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    I agree that a player should not expect to complete any event without using gold. It cost time and money to produce it. But my main problem is... That I don't spend gold as not 1 event is without problems. Every event gree bring out just gets worse. So why spend my hard earned cash to give to people that provide a rubbish service. I expect a 2nd/3rd class service/game now as I sure don't pay for it

  3. #48
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    Thanks for speaking out, robmurphy !!! Finally somebody with common sense (which is becoming rare on this Forum).
    I fully agree and the concept GREE applies is applied by almost all gaming providers. The only difference is that GREE is very poor in quality control and customer relation/communication and that's why they are falling behind in this segment of the gaming market.

  4. #49
    Prominent Poet DEWIN NUTTIN's Avatar
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    You KNOW by now what THEGREE requires.
    It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

    The SPENDING LAMP is ALWAYS lit in ALL GREE GAMES.
    SPEND it, if you got any left.

    Jesse “The Body” Ventura said, “Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!”

    In the words of Bobby Heenan: "The money's the same, whether you earn it or scam it.
    "

  5. #50
    Lurker Wedbetter's Avatar
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    I'm not strongly on either side of this discussion however I'm confused as to what the games point is. Pay to play or pay to win? Rob mentioned walmart in his post. Having worked there while in high school I can tell u they take a loss on many things they sell. Other things have a 300% markup. They figured out balance. I would like to c this game do the same. Make 90% of the goals reachable. The top will buy up the extras like boost buildings and special items in the store.

  6. #51
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wedbetter View Post
    I'm not strongly on either side of this discussion however I'm confused as to what the games point is. Pay to play or pay to win? Rob mentioned walmart in his post. Having worked there while in high school I can tell u they take a loss on many things they sell. Other things have a 300% markup. They figured out balance. I would like to c this game do the same. Make 90% of the goals reachable. The top will buy up the extras like boost buildings and special items in the store.
    Pretty much from day one this game was about paying to win. The problem began with no real forward vision from the developers just keep creating more powerful units thus raising the bar and the need to spend. While the game is technically 'free' those that don't spend have no hope of ever being in the higher echilon of the game.

    Granted that doesn't mean you can't have fun playing gold free, just means you have to be more strategic in how you play which for me keeps the game interesting since spending to win requires little to no strategy just deep pockets.

    But because there was no appearent long range plan the game is falling apart. If there had been a long range plan we would not have all the old useless buildings and units cluttering up the place let alone mission targets and missions. If there had been even the tiniest bit of thought put into how all the elements fit together and not this panic last ditch money grab the game could have still been great.

    Then throw in horrendous quality control and nonexistant customer service and you have the mess we have now. I said a long time ago the project manager should have been fired, now it's too late.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napgar View Post
    Thanks for speaking out, robmurphy !!! Finally somebody with common sense (which is becoming rare on this Forum).
    I fully agree and the concept GREE applies is applied by almost all gaming providers. The only difference is that GREE is very poor in quality control and customer relation/communication and that's why they are falling behind in this segment of the gaming market.
    Disagree. Gree is unique. Only gree gives undistructable units and boosts. All other game providers force to buy and buy the same units/boosts to be stronger.

    robmurphy, it is fun: play-to-play. Maybe, you mean 'pay-to-win'...

  8. #53
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    Here is my take on things. I have played two different freemium mobile games and they have very different ways of spending real money.

    In MW, you buy gold and use it to make it possible to complete events. Without the gold you fall behind the front of the pack and really can't progress very much in the game. This problem is made even worse by the fact that Gree(d) refuses to give the bonuses that most people need like energy and health regen. Given how Gree(d) (and Funzio before them) has always run this game I don't think that all events should be able to be completed for free and that can't be expected. At the same time you need to give players some incentive to play the game and allow players that want to put in some effort to get some benefit without having to spend gobs of gold. Sure, most people should be able to finish Normal mode on LTQs without gold but what do they get for that? Virtually nothing. The stats on the units are fairly low and I can't remember the last time there was a bonus on a Normal event unit. My last point about Modern War and gold is that you get shockingly little benefit from even a vault of gold that costs $100 at regular price.

    The other freemium mobile game that I've played is Clash of Clans. In CoC you can buy gems with real money. Those gems can be spent to buy a couple extra builders huts, boost the speed of barracks/spell factories, buy resources to upgrade buildings/units, or finish the upgrade of a building/troop early. (There are a few other things too, but those are the biggest.) If you have the patience and time, you can pretty much do anything in CoC without gems though. You don't need gems to help your clan win a war but you can spend gems to help your war troops train faster. You don't need gems to upgrade your giants/golems/etc. to the next level, you just need to raid for the resources and then wait the necessary time for the upgrade to complete. You don't need to spend gems boosting your barracks so you can go raiding for resources, you just have to wait longer for your troops to finish training. You also cannot buy extra attacks in clan wars thus giving you an advantage over your opponent, you get 2 attacks per war and that is all. Finally, in CoC if you are careful with spending you can make gems last a pretty darned long time. I use gems pretty much only for boosting my barracks so I can use my time more efficiently in raiding. I can easily make $50 worth of gems last for 2 or 3 months or longer if I'm not feeling like boosting much. I feel like the gems I do spend give a pretty big advantage to me though for relatively little real money spent.

    I've kind of lost my point in all of this but I think what I'm trying to say is that a game where you don't have to spend money to stay ahead can work and work very well. Clash of Clans has been a VERY profitable game for a very long time time now. The key to being and staying profitable is to have a balance between being able to play the game well for free but also allowing players to spend small (or not so small) amounts of real money to progress in the game faster and easier. Supercell still has this balance for the time being in CoC, but Gree lost this balance a long long time ago (assuming they ever had it, which I'm not sure they did).

  9. #54
    Prominent Poet Pidgeot's Avatar
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    ^ This is the way I play. I use my gold to finish evens I'm close to finishing and thats normally between 2 levels left. I use my gold as a means to finish upgrades and such, just like what you said with CoC. The gold I bought a months ago I still have. Sure the game can have some things that need money to buy but these things should always be able to buy, this way there is at least a common ground with the players. They all have the same content but depends on how they use it. Players dont ever feel like they are behind, and even if they are, they can still catch up. Its what makes games healthy. At this point, there isn't any reason for new players to play or current players to spend if they aren't going to ever catch up.
    If you are not c, you have no rs...

  10. #55
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elangomatt View Post
    Here is my take on things. I have played two different freemium mobile games and they have very different ways of spending real money.

    In MW, you buy gold and use it to make it possible to complete events. Without the gold you fall behind the front of the pack and really can't progress very much in the game. This problem is made even worse by the fact that Gree(d) refuses to give the bonuses that most people need like energy and health regen. Given how Gree(d) (and Funzio before them) has always run this game I don't think that all events should be able to be completed for free and that can't be expected. At the same time you need to give players some incentive to play the game and allow players that want to put in some effort to get some benefit without having to spend gobs of gold. Sure, most people should be able to finish Normal mode on LTQs without gold but what do they get for that? Virtually nothing. The stats on the units are fairly low and I can't remember the last time there was a bonus on a Normal event unit. My last point about Modern War and gold is that you get shockingly little benefit from even a vault of gold that costs $100 at regular price.

    The other freemium mobile game that I've played is Clash of Clans. In CoC you can buy gems with real money. Those gems can be spent to buy a couple extra builders huts, boost the speed of barracks/spell factories, buy resources to upgrade buildings/units, or finish the upgrade of a building/troop early. (There are a few other things too, but those are the biggest.) If you have the patience and time, you can pretty much do anything in CoC without gems though. You don't need gems to help your clan win a war but you can spend gems to help your war troops train faster. You don't need gems to upgrade your giants/golems/etc. to the next level, you just need to raid for the resources and then wait the necessary time for the upgrade to complete. You don't need to spend gems boosting your barracks so you can go raiding for resources, you just have to wait longer for your troops to finish training. You also cannot buy extra attacks in clan wars thus giving you an advantage over your opponent, you get 2 attacks per war and that is all. Finally, in CoC if you are careful with spending you can make gems last a pretty darned long time. I use gems pretty much only for boosting my barracks so I can use my time more efficiently in raiding. I can easily make $50 worth of gems last for 2 or 3 months or longer if I'm not feeling like boosting much. I feel like the gems I do spend give a pretty big advantage to me though for relatively little real money spent.

    I've kind of lost my point in all of this but I think what I'm trying to say is that a game where you don't have to spend money to stay ahead can work and work very well. Clash of Clans has been a VERY profitable game for a very long time time now. The key to being and staying profitable is to have a balance between being able to play the game well for free but also allowing players to spend small (or not so small) amounts of real money to progress in the game faster and easier. Supercell still has this balance for the time being in CoC, but Gree lost this balance a long long time ago (assuming they ever had it, which I'm not sure they did).
    In the case of funzio/gree, they lost that balance pretty much when folks realized they could dominate by spending big. That created a snowball effect and since funzio was swimming in revenue they didn't really try and keep it under control.

    Once gree arrived on the scene they went from a milking stool and bucket to high speed milking machine sucking 24/7 and since some players kept spending insane amounts they kept increasing the suction. But the big mistake was greed ruled over game design and even though folks on here were raising the alarm it was ignored until we have what we have now. A pretty much empty shell that has had the juice sucked out of it.

    So sadly there never was a balance making a fast buck by fleecing their sucke.....er I mean customers was the mantra of management and sadly because some still spent even with all the problems they chose not to do anything and continue to do so.
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  11. #56
    Prominent Poet DEWIN NUTTIN's Avatar
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    Please, you're FREE to be as delusional as you please.
    However, some of us know that this thing masquerading as a game can't ever be won, no way, no how, no matter how deceived you might be by your fake stats.
    The precise reasons disclosing why this thing can't be won have been revealed over and over.
    Sorry if you've messed them.
    That said, if you don't know, better ask somebody.
    That said, friend and foe, the spending lamp is always lit in all THEGREE, well you oughta know by now.

    Bye Felicia.
    Last edited by DEWIN NUTTIN; 12-05-2015 at 06:44 AM.
    It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

    The SPENDING LAMP is ALWAYS lit in ALL GREE GAMES.
    SPEND it, if you got any left.

    Jesse “The Body” Ventura said, “Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!”

    In the words of Bobby Heenan: "The money's the same, whether you earn it or scam it.
    "

  12. #57
    Master of Musings Agent Orange's Avatar
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    I
    Quote Originally Posted by DEWIN NUTTIN View Post
    Please, you're FREE to be as delusional as you please.
    However, some of us know that this thing masquerading as a game can't ever be won, no way, no how, no matter how deceived you might be by your fake stats.
    The precise reasons disclosing why this thing can't be won have been revealed over and over.
    Sorry if you've messed them.
    That said, if you don't know, better ask somebody.
    That said, friend and foe, the spending lamp is always lit in all THEGREE, well you oughta know by now.

    Bye Felicia.
    It occurs to me that there is a way to 'win' and that is to make the game revenue negative resulting in gree shutting it down. Playing for free is one way, getting all your money refunded even more so.
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  13. #58
    Prominent Poet DEWIN NUTTIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
    I

    It occurs to me that there is a way to 'win' and that is to make the game revenue negative resulting in gree shutting it down. Playing for free is one way, getting all your money refunded even more so.

    Yes, everyone or everything eventually be destroyed.

    In some cases, your target will assist in its destruction.
    It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

    The SPENDING LAMP is ALWAYS lit in ALL GREE GAMES.
    SPEND it, if you got any left.

    Jesse “The Body” Ventura said, “Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!”

    In the words of Bobby Heenan: "The money's the same, whether you earn it or scam it.
    "

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