View Poll Results: Were the arguments (stated in this post) well chosen, defended and clear?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    4 100.00%
  • No

    0 0%
  1. #1

    *BROKEN* [BOX EVENT(7/11/2015) - Biostasis Chamber] {Legal & Observations issues!}

    Greetings ladies and gentlemen playing War of Nations and following its forum posts,

    I, as a player, have been infinetly patient with this game and its multiple lags and issues and glitches and etc.... (Never ending list sadly...). I'm making this post to release my legal & observative conclusions toward this in-game event (As mentionned and specified by the document given to IOS apps developpers / https://developer.apple.com/app-stor...ew/guidelines/ / provided by the company Apple Inc.).


    LEGAL CONCLUSIONS

    This event, technically named "Biostasis Chamber", but commonly called "Box Event" (It is commonly called so because its name can differ, but the concept stays the same) is violating the articles 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.14 & 22.2 of the document mentionned above. Here are precisions (Quotes) of the articles (As mentionned and specified by the document given to IOS apps developpers (https://developer.apple.com/app-stor...ew/guidelines/) provided by the company Apple Inc.):

    2.1 Apps that crash will be rejected;

    2.2 Apps that exhibit bugs will be rejected;

    2.3 Apps that do not perform as advertised by the developer will be rejected;

    2.4 Apps that include undocumented or hidden features inconsistent with the description of the App will be rejected;

    2.14 Apps that are intended to provide trick or fake functionality that are not clearly marked as such will be rejected;

    22.2 Apps that contain false, fraudulent or misleading representations or use names or icons similar to other Apps will be rejected.


    DETAILED REPORT EXPLAINING THE VIOLATIONS OF EACH ARTICLE:

    1) The article 2.1 is being violated due to in-game crashes while trying to participate in the event.
    CRASH REPORT RELATED TO THE PREVIOUS ARTICLE(2.1):
    To participate in this event, you have to gain crates (boxes). To gain those, you have to attack "NPC renegades command centers" of any level (Level 2 to 38). The crash happens if you try to hit multiple npc renegades command centers at the same time. The screen freezes during the selection of your commander in your in-game army, which leads to a crash.

    2) The article 2.2 is being violated due to in-game bugs while trying to participate in this event.
    BUG REPORT RELATED TO THE PREVIOUS ARTICLE(2.2):
    To participate in this event, you have to gain crates (boxes). To gain those, you have to attack "NPC renegades command centers" of any level (Level 2 to 38). The bug happens if you try to hit multiple npc renegades command centers at the same time. The screen freezes during the selection of your commander in your in-game army.

    3) The article 2.3 is being violated due to the violations of the articles 2.1 and 2.2, which are described above. It wasn't mentionned by the developper and it results in a poor performance in the event.

    4) The article 2.4 is being violated due to the non-existing information and specifications about this in-game event when you first download the app in the App Store. Moreover, the event has been occuring at a very high rate, making it an essential aspect and face of the game "War of Nations" provided and developped by GREE International Inc.

    5) The articles 2.14 & 22.2 are being violated due to the unknown odds of the unknown items available in each crate (box) earned during the event. The "?" button located on the box icon, displayed in the players' inventory, is suppose to show the odds and items, but it's not working (Can't access). The company can then manipulate those odds to increase its sales, which misleads the customers into the "Unlucky" mindset, pushing it to spend more.


    As specified in the document, the app should be rejected, meaning it couldn't be available in the App Store. As it is already out, the company should fix the issues as soon as possible.

    ***The terms of services of "War of Nations" can only apply if the game meets the requirements of the document "AppStore Review Guidelines" provided by Apple Inc. to its developpers because they are the public distributors of the product.***


    OBSERVATIONS

    This current event is broken... The event started at 4pm (Eastern time) and I opened 8 boxes (Now 2am), only getting 1 chamber and 7 "jams"!!! I didn't open with gold, but the ones that do are already at 19 chambers. I never had any issues before when using money, always had a decent % of success. Is this a tactic from GREE to push people toward the "spending" option to stay competitive? I hope this is fixed soon enough...

    Thanks for your time and don't forget to comment, it's really appreciated!
    -Slayers-

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    283
    Many players just consider this part of the game and shrug....apparently.

    The hardest part of these latest events to swallow is seeing others have access to features of the event before other players. Global domination where all but a few were locked out, holdout where 1 team can access the strongholds before the event, holdout where multiple sets of strongholds on the map.

    But hey .. Shrugs.. All part of the game right??

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexhom View Post
    Many players just consider this part of the game and shrug....apparently.

    The hardest part of these latest events to swallow is seeing others have access to features of the event before other players. Global domination where all but a few were locked out, holdout where 1 team can access the strongholds before the event, holdout where multiple sets of strongholds on the map.

    But hey .. Shrugs.. All part of the game right??
    First of all,
    Thanks for the comment! Secondly, as you can see, we shouldn't, as players, endure all those glitches and lags. Apples' policy is clear towards this. GREE should start being careful... I'm sure I wasn't the only one making those conclusions.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    283
    Apologies the sarcasm wasn't loud enough. I was aiming it at the excuses made in the thread below.

    http://forums.gree.net/showthread.ph...nection-Issue)

  5. #5
    Drifting death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Death to Ming
    Posts
    452
    One question if we start seeing odds being given for item drops for boxes and commanders, who regulates them, as it's not classed as gambling due to items are free or purchased from in game currency (thin vail), it would seem they avoid any regulation. So even if they supplied odds they may not stick to them....

    Second, are items purchased in gold packs like commanders or boxes not actual gambling, as odds are at play and items have varied value? (In app) But it's real world money that's used to buy them? At the time of purchase. The vail only covers items purchased with in game gold...... These are not...

    Last. A good review post, it's hard to stick to totaly legal points as they use the grey so much....
    I don't know what Gree is doing behind the curtain to create all the bugs the game is getting, but they need to get a lid on it fast, last time I logged on to world 8 there was 6 hrs of chat in the list for world chat, it usually only showed a few mins of it. If that's anything to go by my old world is on its last legs....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexhom View Post
    Apologies the sarcasm wasn't loud enough. I was aiming it at the excuses made in the thread below.

    http://forums.gree.net/showthread.ph...nection-Issue)
    Haha I noticed the sarcasm, I was just rallying behind your idea that we don't have to endure all this mess...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Drifting death View Post
    One question if we start seeing odds being given for item drops for boxes and commanders, who regulates them, as it's not classed as gambling due to items are free or purchased from in game currency (thin vail), it would seem they avoid any regulation. So even if they supplied odds they may not stick to them....

    Second, are items purchased in gold packs like commanders or boxes not actual gambling, as odds are at play and items have varied value? (In app) But it's real world money that's used to buy them? At the time of purchase. The vail only covers items purchased with in game gold...... These are not...

    Last. A good review post, it's hard to stick to totaly legal points as they use the grey so much....
    I don't know what Gree is doing behind the curtain to create all the bugs the game is getting, but they need to get a lid on it fast, last time I logged on to world 8 there was 6 hrs of chat in the list for world chat, it usually only showed a few mins of it. If that's anything to go by my old world is on its last legs....
    Thanks for the reply!
    I can answer some of your points. First, seeing the odds is an obligation (even if they might not even respect them...) in the document. Second, the gambling issue is too vast to really prove a point, so I went more specifically with the box event and its mechanism. Gambling is a simple concept, you can win or lose. Box event is exactly that. Finally, as mentionned at the end of my post, the ToS of WoN can only be applied if Apple released and assume responsabilities for the App, which they did. The only question remaining is when will Apple not back it up anymore...

  8. #8
    Lolsies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    729
    Very thorough analysis. These terms only apply to apps that are pending acceptance into the App Store, however, and do not consider existing apps in the app store already...

    Also, the sections of the Review Guidelines you cited are...vague, I guess.

    Section 2.1 and 2.2 are valid, assuming that the app has been thoroughly tested. Some functions work perfectly, while others....not so much. It takes a long-term player to really find all the glitches that have occurred throughout the game's life. For example, the Box event. The act of opening a box generally does not produce lag/crashes, so the event could be technically deemed as a success.

    2.3 talks about how apps perform as advertised by the developer. I'm assuming that the developer aimed for simply a gaming experience for players to interact in, which has been achieved, in a very general sense. Yes, the game underperforms, but it still 'performs' as it is advertised: an interactive online game. Same for the box event. You open boxes. If you can open boxes, the function has been successfully completed.

    Section 2.14 says that the app should not trick or fake functionality. However, the app's function does not 'trick' and isn't really 'fake'. Its intended purpose is to provide a game where people can buy things, and it really has no other function other than that. As for the Box event, it does not 'trick' or 'fake'. It has a set rate, and the event is essentially revolving around that rate.

    2.4 talks about undocumented and hidden features. There is a line as to how much info they can give away. No game I know of has given rates for a certain box opening rate/gambling of currency, so the box event still technically should live.

    Finally, 22.2 talks about false, misleading and fraudulent info in the app. It depends as to what the subject is. I've seen plenty of popups displaying a discount but the gold at the 'buy' bar displaying the original cost. For the box event, there is no 'misleading' info. In fact, they've given the minimal information they could for the event. If you're talking about the gambling aspect, it isn't 'misleading'.

    Hopefully this sheds a bit of light as to what the game does and the features it has. There are many complaints about 'misleading' information, but there is nothing misleading about gambling. You're spending the gold and essentially 'gambling' with chance. Most games already have this aspect included.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsies View Post
    Very thorough analysis. These terms only apply to apps that are pending acceptance into the App Store, however, and do not consider existing apps in the app store already...

    Also, the sections of the Review Guidelines you cited are...vague, I guess.

    Section 2.1 and 2.2 are valid, assuming that the app has been thoroughly tested. Some functions work perfectly, while others....not so much. It takes a long-term player to really find all the glitches that have occurred throughout the game's life. For example, the Box event. The act of opening a box generally does not produce lag/crashes, so the event could be technically deemed as a success.

    2.3 talks about how apps perform as advertised by the developer. I'm assuming that the developer aimed for simply a gaming experience for players to interact in, which has been achieved, in a very general sense. Yes, the game underperforms, but it still 'performs' as it is advertised: an interactive online game. Same for the box event. You open boxes. If you can open boxes, the function has been successfully completed.

    Section 2.14 says that the app should not trick or fake functionality. However, the app's function does not 'trick' and isn't really 'fake'. Its intended purpose is to provide a game where people can buy things, and it really has no other function other than that. As for the Box event, it does not 'trick' or 'fake'. It has a set rate, and the event is essentially revolving around that rate.

    2.4 talks about undocumented and hidden features. There is a line as to how much info they can give away. No game I know of has given rates for a certain box opening rate/gambling of currency, so the box event still technically should live.

    Finally, 22.2 talks about false, misleading and fraudulent info in the app. It depends as to what the subject is. I've seen plenty of popups displaying a discount but the gold at the 'buy' bar displaying the original cost. For the box event, there is no 'misleading' info. In fact, they've given the minimal information they could for the event. If you're talking about the gambling aspect, it isn't 'misleading'.

    Hopefully this sheds a bit of light as to what the game does and the features it has. There are many complaints about 'misleading' information, but there is nothing misleading about gambling. You're spending the gold and essentially 'gambling' with chance. Most games already have this aspect included.
    Thanks for all those precisions!
    I'd like to, however, bring other points to those you mentionned. First of all, I do know that the document is for new apps, but if these criterias are mandatory for the future apps, they'll also force the old ones to adapt. Also, on the article 2.3, you mention that it performs as it should, but it can't because 2.1 & 2.2 aren't respected. If "glitches" and "bugs" were mentionned by the developpers, we wouldn't have an issue with this point. I agree with you on 2.14, but your point of view on 2.4 doesn't have a good foundation (In my opinion). Why? Well, if I can't see any possibilities of the items I can get, how do I know if I can even win the announced prize? How do I know the company doesn't manipulate the odds of X item? The bug concerning the "?" is what's making this argument valid. Otherwise, it wouldn't be. 22.2 follow the same logic as well.

    It's only my opinion, thanks for the time!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in