Thoughts of an Honest F2P player

[CoreyElectro]

I've been playing Knights and Dragons for a few years now, and overall I love the game. I love the new dragonforged armors and the heroic mode they have put in. I've enjoyed playing the game. And as the title implies, I am a Free2Play player. I am not one who plays the game in hopes of ever making it to the number one slot. I just enjoy playing the game. However, several things about this game are becoming a bit ridiculous, and I hope that somebody at GREE gets on these forums and at least reads these. It's the least they can do as a company.

First, I must say that, Gree, you are not making me feel important. I feel like you are doing all you can to push the F2P players out of the game, which is a HUGE mistake. I feel completely unloved and ignored by your company. The game recently has definitely been going down the road towards enriching the playing field for those who pay like crazy to reach T50 or so in the wars, raids, and tournaments. Where does that leave F2P gamers like me? Trampled under the rush of people to the front with no hopes of ever gaining anything. As a company, you can gain A LOT from the F2P players. Would you like to know the biggest thing we offer? FREE ADVERTISING!!!

F2P players are more than happy to run out into the world and tell others about this amazing game we are playing and actually admit that it can indeed be a F2P game. P2P players will too go out into the world and 'advertise'; however their statement turns out to be more along the lines of "Yeah, you can play it without paying for anything but you have to put money in if you want to do any good." Now as a company, which would I rather have? The first. Why? It'll draw in more people, which in the process might even draw in MORE P2P people who might not know they are one of those. I've seen several people claim to be F2P, and then switch to P2P when they find that perfect game. We, the F2P players, are hugely important to your company, GREE.

And the way you are running the game now, F2P players literally cannot make any ground at all, so our advertising is currently "The game was great, but now it's just a giant money pit. Don't play it unless you have hundreds of dollars to waste. It's just not worth it." That's not very good advertising you're getting from us. Compare that with the P2P comment and they're identical. You might still have people coming into the game, but you'd bring in exponentially more if you attempt to cater to the F2P players as well.

I by no means am trying to get you to back down from the P2P players. They are your revenue. I got that. I know how a business works generically speaking. However, the F2P players are just as important as the P2P players, and I feel like you have forgotten that.

Make us feel important again, GREE. Help us to help you. Answer our questions and concerns. Give us feedback and listen to ours. Give us an update on the FREE GEMS button. For instance, if you are deciding to NEVER bring it back, just come out and say it. If you are fixing it still, then give us an update once a month or something. "Still working on that button" or something. Don't leave us in the dark. We are investing our time in your company, and if that means anything to you, then you would also invest your time in us. Speak to us, GREE. Let us feel important again.

If we pitch ideas, comment on them and at least say "Thanks for the idea, but we are not sure that would work." Or "We'll take that into consideration." Let us know that you are here for the customers.

My guild, The Zenians, is a small guild on the iOS version of the game, and we just like to have fun; however we can never get anywhere since we don't have gems to spend on the chests for hopes of dragonforged armor and several of our members keep going inactive due to the struggle to get anywhere without money. We don't strive for T50 every war. We strive for T750. That's all. I have built this guild and hope to one day be able to have the players to reach the top, but nobody 'good' joins the small guilds because they are all trying to join a T50 just for a war or two for the benefits of the spoils. Can you not see that several F2P players are dying to play your game but cannot get anywhere?

The whole point to this, GREE, is to inform you that we, the F2P players, want to play and have fun as well. Why not have tournament/war choices where you can participate in ones where you can use gems and ones where gems are not allowed? Have some fun with the game, GREE. Let the F2P players feel important again!!!

If anybody else is reading this and would like to help my guild reach even higher heights, then find us in the game or message me on LINE (coreyelectro). And feel free to friend me in game as well XBM-ZDR-CHV

[Ant venom]

The motto of GREE is make money and don't lose the cash, f2p don't make money for GREE so they obviously don't give a damn. What do the f2p players offer other than not paying? GREE has done everything to make profit, don't they infuriate the P2W players too? What does advertising the game give them? If it isn't profit or money, they don't give a damn. Honestly, if you are frugal in spending gems and save enough, in no time you can be as good as the P2W, maybe even better by going on a T10 or T50 run (Btw T50 is now really cheap and T10 too because GREE has failed to offer any Holiday Packs).

[legalious]

Sorry, but I don't believe the iOS gem button will come back. It seems that Apple is cracking down on advertisements within games and rejecting any game that rewards players or redirects them to other games/companies.

[Lord P]

I've been playing Knights and Dragons for a few years now, and overall I love the game. I love the new dragonforged armors and the heroic mode they have put in. I've enjoyed playing the game. And as the title implies, I am a Free2Play player. I am not one who plays the game in hopes of ever making it to the number one slot. I just enjoy playing the game. However, several things about this game are becoming a bit ridiculous, and I hope that somebody at GREE gets on these forums and at least reads these. It's the least they can do as a company.

First, I must say that, Gree, you are not making me feel important. I feel like you are doing all you can to push the F2P players out of the game, which is a HUGE mistake. I feel completely unloved and ignored by your company. The game recently has definitely been going down the road towards enriching the playing field for those who pay like crazy to reach T50 or so in the wars, raids, and tournaments. Where does that leave F2P gamers like me? Trampled under the rush of people to the front with no hopes of ever gaining anything. As a company, you can gain A LOT from the F2P players. Would you like to know the biggest thing we offer? FREE ADVERTISING!!!

F2P players are more than happy to run out into the world and tell others about this amazing game we are playing and actually admit that it can indeed be a F2P game. P2P players will too go out into the world and 'advertise'; however their statement turns out to be more along the lines of "Yeah, you can play it without paying for anything but you have to put money in if you want to do any good." Now as a company, which would I rather have? The first. Why? It'll draw in more people, which in the process might even draw in MORE P2P people who might not know they are one of those. I've seen several people claim to be F2P, and then switch to P2P when they find that perfect game. We, the F2P players, are hugely important to your company, GREE.

And the way you are running the game now, F2P players literally cannot make any ground at all, so our advertising is currently "The game was great, but now it's just a giant money pit. Don't play it unless you have hundreds of dollars to waste. It's just not worth it." That's not very good advertising you're getting from us. Compare that with the P2P comment and they're identical. You might still have people coming into the game, but you'd bring in exponentially more if you attempt to cater to the F2P players as well.

I by no means am trying to get you to back down from the P2P players. They are your revenue. I got that. I know how a business works generically speaking. However, the F2P players are just as important as the P2P players, and I feel like you have forgotten that.

Make us feel important again, GREE. Help us to help you. Answer our questions and concerns. Give us feedback and listen to ours. Give us an update on the FREE GEMS button. For instance, if you are deciding to NEVER bring it back, just come out and say it. If you are fixing it still, then give us an update once a month or something. "Still working on that button" or something. Don't leave us in the dark. We are investing our time in your company, and if that means anything to you, then you would also invest your time in us. Speak to us, GREE. Let us feel important again.

If we pitch ideas, comment on them and at least say "Thanks for the idea, but we are not sure that would work." Or "We'll take that into consideration." Let us know that you are here for the customers.

My guild, The Zenians, is a small guild on the iOS version of the game, and we just like to have fun; however we can never get anywhere since we don't have gems to spend on the chests for hopes of dragonforged armor and several of our members keep going inactive due to the struggle to get anywhere without money. We don't strive for T50 every war. We strive for T750. That's all. I have built this guild and hope to one day be able to have the players to reach the top, but nobody 'good' joins the small guilds because they are all trying to join a T50 just for a war or two for the benefits of the spoils. Can you not see that several F2P players are dying to play your game but cannot get anywhere?

The whole point to this, GREE, is to inform you that we, the F2P players, want to play and have fun as well. Why not have tournament/war choices where you can participate in ones where you can use gems and ones where gems are not allowed? Have some fun with the game, GREE. Let the F2P players feel important again!!!

If anybody else is reading this and would like to help my guild reach even higher heights, then find us in the game or message me on LINE (coreyelectro). And feel free to friend me in game as well XBM-ZDR-CHV

Good read........

As I fellow iOS player I can sympathize with your experience. When I started playing the game last year, I remained F2P for several months. I then graduated to a P2P player, going T10 regularly.

As much as the Gree staff will tell you this game is safe to invest your money in and that it isn't winding down, the majority of their decisions as of late indicate the game is in fact declining. If you listen to my version of the story they have already planned and initiated an exit strategy which is why you see the insane decisions. They appear to be purposefully trying to diminish the player numbers, driving away players who've supported Gree and played this game for years.

When I was playing the game strictly F2P I was getting between 10 and 20 gems a day from videos. Doing that for a few months straight I was able to start making some high runs at weekend armor. The paying player I became was directly related to being able to see what the high life was like for FREE. The difference between me and the paying player was frequency making high runs. The paying players can do it every week and a free player could do it once in awhile. As a newbie I accepted that and felt like it was a fair trade. With the videos now gone, all those F2P players who enjoyed the good ole days of videos are left with pretty raw feelings. New players who don't know about the good ole days will care less about videos...... they simply know no better. Older players will become disappointed, frustrated and ultimately will leave. Gree will be not be forthcoming about their video solution. They already know if this will be resolved and the fact that they're claiming they "don't know" simply illustrates that they do know but recognize that some players will leave if they get a straight answer.

Here's the funny thing. I had a favorite game before I came to K&D. They did many of the same things. Ambiguous statements about several issues and claiming no knowledge on things like updates. After a year went by without an update and the developers telling me point blank that they didn't know when another one would come, I left. I checked on iTunes and the game still hasn't been updated since 2013 (they used to get a update every month to two months). It's not going to be updated and I'm glad I left. K&D is moving in the same direction.

Much of the complaining here at the Gree forums comes from the P2P players and it's unfortunate that the F2P players are beginning to chime in more also.

Pretty soon only the newest of players will even like the game. All the older players both F2P and P2P are slowly becoming sour to the lies and lack of transparency regarding the future.

At this point in the game my gem purchases are explicitly limited to Holiday Packs. 40% is the most I will pay for game currency on a game that looks like it's dying (or being killed off by the management).

The handwriting is on the wall...............

[Lord P]

Sorry, but I don't believe the iOS gem button will come back. It seems that Apple is cracking down on advertisements within games and rejecting any game that rewards players or redirects them to other games/companies.

Does Gree have any intention to compensate players? Or are they developing any new ideas on how to get more free gems (or if you will "earned gems") to players?

[xWolfSlayerx]

Does Gree have any intention to compensate players? Or are they developing any new ideas on how to get more free gems (or if you will "earned gems") to players?

I am also asking these questions to GREE on behalf of the iOS folks.

Good read........

As I fellow iOS player I can sympathize with your experience. When I started playing the game last year, I remained F2P for several months. I then graduated to a P2P player, going T10 regularly.

As much as the Gree staff will tell you this game is safe to invest your money in and that it isn't winding down, the majority of their decisions as of late indicate the game is in fact declining. If you listen to my version of the story they have already planned and initiated an exit strategy which is why you see the insane decisions. They appear to be purposefully trying to diminish the player numbers, driving away players who've supported Gree and played this game for years.

When I was playing the game strictly F2P I was getting between 10 and 20 gems a day from videos. Doing that for a few months straight I was able to start making some high runs at weekend armor. The paying player I became was directly related to being able to see what the high life was like for FREE. The difference between me and the paying player was frequency making high runs. The paying players can do it every week and a free player could do it once in awhile. As a newbie I accepted that and felt like it was a fair trade. With the videos now gone, all those F2P players who enjoyed the good ole days of videos are left with pretty raw feelings. New players who don't know about the good ole days will care less about videos...... they simply know no better. Older players will become disappointed, frustrated and ultimately will leave. Gree will be not be forthcoming about their video solution. They already know if this will be resolved and the fact that they're claiming they "don't know" simply illustrates that they do know but recognize that some players will leave if they get a straight answer.

Here's the funny thing. I had a favorite game before I came to K&D. They did many of the same things. Ambiguous statements about several issues and claiming no knowledge on things like updates. After a year went by without an update and the developers telling me point blank that they didn't know when another one would come, I left. I checked on iTunes and the game still hasn't been updated since 2013 (they used to get a update every month to two months). It's not going to be updated and I'm glad I left. K&D is moving in the same direction.

Much of the complaining here at the Gree forums comes from the P2P players and it's unfortunate that the F2P players are beginning to chime in more also.

Pretty soon only the newest of players will even like the game. All the older players both F2P and P2P are slowly becoming sour to the lies and lack of transparency regarding the future.

At this point in the game my gem purchases are explicitly limited to Holiday Packs. 40% is the most I will pay for game currency on a game that looks like it's dying (or being killed off by the management).

The handwriting is on the wall...............

I agree with you on these points, are GREE really trying to kill the game?

[Lord P]

I agree with you on these points, are GREE really trying to kill the game?

Honestly I don't know..... it feels like it but my opinion changes from minute to minute. That's why I say they're killing the game on purpose and then the next minute I talk about how they're trying to save players by not directly answering questions.

It's hard for me to accept that a company can be run so poorly by accident.

[roookey1]

Good post. I wrote similar concerns about a year ago (!) - by then, pretty much everyone on this forum ridiculed and criticized me for being so negative. In fact I loved the game but had my concerns about the way it seemed to take. At that time I still believed that management shortsightedness was the reason for how they treated us, at a time when K&D was one of the most popular games of its kind on Android. Today, it looks as indeed they are running down the game on purpose. This constant disappointment of players without any reasonable explanations or response by management can't be explained by ignorance or dumbness, no, for that there's too much money involved. There are hundreds of posts containing hints, complaints and suggestions by fans on how to improve the game, but little to nothing of that got done or even acknowledged.

Why they are running it down is hard for me to understand - obviously the game is a cash cow, and it beats me on why a owner/shareholder would allow it to be slaughtered on purpose or by bad management. They are still making enough cash every month to potentially be able to hire 20 developers and designers to surprise us and keep their customer's addiction up. But: nuttin'. However, whatever the reason for the kamikaze ride, reducing player numbers will reduce the likelihood of lawsuits for getting disowned in gem purchases people had made before. They may try to thin out the number of players owning purchased gems (that would also explain why they disencourage players from buying new ones) - so regardless of what their social media guys tell us, the lack of sales may well be another indication of the end of K&D being near.

What I'm hoping for these days is that there is an investment / game company out there realizing the potential value of the game when rescued in time, to take it out of Gree(d)'s hands before only a skeleton of what K&D once was remains.

[SBBL Indigo]

I've been playing Knights and Dragons for a few years now, and overall I love the game. I love the new dragonforged armors and the heroic mode they have put in. I've enjoyed playing the game. And as the title implies, I am a Free2Play player. I am not one who plays the game in hopes of ever making it to the number one slot. I just enjoy playing the game. However, several things about this game are becoming a bit ridiculous, and I hope that somebody at GREE gets on these forums and at least reads these. It's the least they can do as a company.

First, I must say that, Gree, you are not making me feel important. I feel like you are doing all you can to push the F2P players out of the game, which is a HUGE mistake. I feel completely unloved and ignored by your company. The game recently has definitely been going down the road towards enriching the playing field for those who pay like crazy to reach T50 or so in the wars, raids, and tournaments. Where does that leave F2P gamers like me? Trampled under the rush of people to the front with no hopes of ever gaining anything. As a company, you can gain A LOT from the F2P players. Would you like to know the biggest thing we offer? FREE ADVERTISING!!!

F2P players are more than happy to run out into the world and tell others about this amazing game we are playing and actually admit that it can indeed be a F2P game. P2P players will too go out into the world and 'advertise'; however their statement turns out to be more along the lines of "Yeah, you can play it without paying for anything but you have to put money in if you want to do any good." Now as a company, which would I rather have? The first. Why? It'll draw in more people, which in the process might even draw in MORE P2P people who might not know they are one of those. I've seen several people claim to be F2P, and then switch to P2P when they find that perfect game. We, the F2P players, are hugely important to your company, GREE.

And the way you are running the game now, F2P players literally cannot make any ground at all, so our advertising is currently "The game was great, but now it's just a giant money pit. Don't play it unless you have hundreds of dollars to waste. It's just not worth it." That's not very good advertising you're getting from us. Compare that with the P2P comment and they're identical. You might still have people coming into the game, but you'd bring in exponentially more if you attempt to cater to the F2P players as well.

I by no means am trying to get you to back down from the P2P players. They are your revenue. I got that. I know how a business works generically speaking. However, the F2P players are just as important as the P2P players, and I feel like you have forgotten that.

Make us feel important again, GREE. Help us to help you. Answer our questions and concerns. Give us feedback and listen to ours. Give us an update on the FREE GEMS button. For instance, if you are deciding to NEVER bring it back, just come out and say it. If you are fixing it still, then give us an update once a month or something. "Still working on that button" or something. Don't leave us in the dark. We are investing our time in your company, and if that means anything to you, then you would also invest your time in us. Speak to us, GREE. Let us feel important again.

If we pitch ideas, comment on them and at least say "Thanks for the idea, but we are not sure that would work." Or "We'll take that into consideration." Let us know that you are here for the customers.

My guild, The Zenians, is a small guild on the iOS version of the game, and we just like to have fun; however we can never get anywhere since we don't have gems to spend on the chests for hopes of dragonforged armor and several of our members keep going inactive due to the struggle to get anywhere without money. We don't strive for T50 every war. We strive for T750. That's all. I have built this guild and hope to one day be able to have the players to reach the top, but nobody 'good' joins the small guilds because they are all trying to join a T50 just for a war or two for the benefits of the spoils. Can you not see that several F2P players are dying to play your game but cannot get anywhere?

The whole point to this, GREE, is to inform you that we, the F2P players, want to play and have fun as well. Why not have tournament/war choices where you can participate in ones where you can use gems and ones where gems are not allowed? Have some fun with the game, GREE. Let the F2P players feel important again!!!

If anybody else is reading this and would like to help my guild reach even higher heights, then find us in the game or message me on LINE (coreyelectro). And feel free to friend me in game as well XBM-ZDR-CHV

It's kinda funny cos as a P2P player I feel like the game is geared towards F2P players more than ever. Or at least getting F2P players in in the hope they start to become P2P since few people start off spending big money on the game.

I was in a F2P guild for months before I started spending. My sole epic was maelstrom and I enjoyed the challenge of getting the epic boss+ armour. My guild was t500 but it didn't matter; we had fun. You aren't (usually) put up against big spending guilds in wars. You fight guilds of your own level. Same with arena. Yes you can't get the premium products like dfa and dfa+ unless you get really lucky with chests but you can still play the game and have fun.

I haven't bought gems in weeks and have accumulated a couple hundred gems through arena, milestones, daily events etc. Don't blow them on chests or gemming on epic boss etc.

There's a damn sight more for F2P players to do now than there used to be - epic + epic guaranteed fusion. Fuseable war epics. Epics for epic boss. Heroic mode. Epic boss collection with free gems and cape. At your guilds level you won't get 'good' players who spend but if you create a good guild atmosphere you can get new players in, some of whom will remain active and loyal to you and the guild will grow. Maybe it won't ever be t10 but you can still have fun playing the game and save those free gems to join a push - the armours may attract some decent noobs to your guild.

[roookey1]

It's kinda funny cos as a P2P player I feel like the game is geared towards F2P players more than ever.

that's another legitimate way to interpret the situation, yes. Actually I think on the long run, the continued existence of the game depends on new players coming in, and new players are ALWAYS f2p. If they feel they have no chance at all and nothing to achieve, if their intelligence is offended at too many points, they may be gone before even getting up to epic level.

[SBBL Indigo]

that's another legitimate way to interpret the situation, yes. Actually I think on the long run, the continued existence of the game depends on new players coming in, and new players are ALWAYS f2p. If they feel they have no chance at all and nothing to achieve, if their intelligence is offended at too many points, they may be gone before even getting up to epic level.

Oh definitely. I have no issue with the changes meant to attract F2P players. Just making the point that Gree has definitely made strides to improve the experience for F2P players which is a good thing... however the point remains they have not just ignored, but completely shat all over the P2P part of the community recently.

They need to make concessions to all players, whether they are F2P or P2P. I don't think their attempts to appease F2P are enough to bring in a whole new raft of spenders. So they may learn fast not to bite the hand that feeds them.

[Marco_]

For free2play to get top 100-ish armors, it's probably best to fuse epic boss armors, check if the result is likely to come up in Heroic mode based on the stats and if so keep it (maybe at lvl 98 in case levelup is still needed for unlock of the plus) and get one or more heroic+ for 8 crystals at some point.

Most new players will likely spend their first few weeks in the game thinking (non-Heroic) adventure mode actually has any significance to the current game other than for quest gems and to grind to level 100, so mostly won't really notice this is a pay2stayahead war/raid game at first...


If you can be active enough on raids to get 3 million points, that's quite a nice chunk of gems you can farm there, combined with gems from login, epic boss, arena, keys etc that's a decent free income.

[Lord P]

If they would up the EB Milestone gems to 30 instead of 8 they would have covered just about all the missing gems from the videos with the new milestones for wars and blitz.

[Marco_]

For free2play to get top 100-ish armors, it's probably best to fuse epic boss armors, check if the result is likely to come up in Heroic mode based on the stats and if so keep it (maybe at lvl 98 in case levelup is still needed for unlock of the plus) and get one or more heroic+ for 8 crystals at some point.

And pure dumb luck too apparently... Got a Primal Alphamail from my 8 free keys. O_o Longterm backburner project for me.

[Kangaroeland]

Wow congrats marco! I got nothing sadly. But good reminder to not do chests