[Raid Boss] To Jump or Not to Jump...

[Vile Lynn]

Since the "Feedback" Sticky isn't meant for discussion, let's discuss it here even though it's been discussed ad nauseam.

IMO, I think syndicates should be locked because it is a syndicate event.
• GREE did not originally design RB to be a jump-fest for customers to exploit the fact that syndicates are not locked.
• Lower-ranking syndicates give up because half of the team is out getting their own Indy goals.
• 150+/60 in a syndicate, killing a L100 every 5 mins, gives GREE bad data that they use against us.

Options:
Lock syndicates
Make it almost impossible for the Top5 to complete (hint:MW)
Make the Indy goal worthless

I've been a customer long enough to know something will get nerfed if enough customers enjoy it.

Jumperz gonna jump.
Tell GREE why you should keep jumping.

[Dipstik]

There are other workarounds short of locking syndicates but they might be difficult to code. A cool down period after joining a syndicate before you can participate would work just as well. The length of one boss fight is all you'd need.

[Evan1000]

I could say blah blah syndicates cooperating is a good thing and it rewards activity like everyone else, but I won't do that. I'll look at it from GREE's standpoint.

Anyone remember boss killers? Remember how popular they were? If you think GREE is losing money from jumping, imagine how much they were losing when every other syn gives a guy $20 to come kill their bosses. It was definitely cheaper than buying gold!

So GREE realizes this problem and they have two options. They can either make the health really low so there would be no need for boss killers, or make the health near impossible for most syns so boss killers would be too expensive to bother. Well we're all aware they tried both of these methods and they both actually worked surprising well. But both times people complained about raid boss being either too easy or utterly insane. So their only other option was to turn to jumping, where they won't lose as much money and not many will complain.

So they make the boss health impossible but the min damage required for loot extremely low, so only the T10 is able to finish and probably use gold to finish early while everyone else jumps for their indi.

TLDR; they aren't getting rid of jumping

[Dipstik]

Nice try Evan, but you're still operating from the premise that everyone is entitled to finish. Good catch on the "boss killers" though. I didn't even know that was going on. Better lock syndicates to put a stop to that.

Any idea who exactly was getting paid for these services?

[Vile Lynn]

There are other workarounds short of locking syndicates but they might be difficult to code. A cool down period after joining a syndicate before you can participate would work just as well. The length of one boss fight is all you'd need.

I'm glad you brought that up about a cool down period; reminded me of this thread from K&D...
http://forums.gree.net/showthread.ph...39#post1498339

[Vile Lynn]

I could say blah blah syndicates cooperating is a good thing and it rewards activity like everyone else, but I won't do that. I'll look at it from GREE's standpoint.

Anyone remember boss killers? Remember how popular they were? If you think GREE is losing money from jumping, imagine how much they were losing when every other syn gives a guy $20 to come kill their bosses. It was definitely cheaper than buying gold!

So GREE realizes this problem and they have two options. They can either make the health really low so there would be no need for boss killers, or make the health near impossible for most syns so boss killers would be too expensive to bother. Well we're all aware they tried both of these methods and they both actually worked surprising well. But both times people complained about raid boss being either too easy or utterly insane. So their only other option was to turn to jumping, where they won't lose as much money and not many will complain.

So they make the boss health impossible but the min damage required for loot extremely low, so only the T10 is able to finish and probably use gold to finish early while everyone else jumps for their indi.

TLDR; they aren't getting rid of jumping

lol, I didn't know about "boss killers" either. Nice!

Giving beastly customers real money to play for you is crazy!

I knew they "co-op" in Kingdom Age so beastly LLPs can get massive points in war to win 1st, but I didn't know it was happening in CC with other team events.

[Evan1000]

There used to be plenty more, now there's only one I've seen hanging around the chat rooms. Revealing his name would be naming and shaming and a d!ck move on my part.

[Oasis]

Any idea who exactly was getting paid for these services?

Good luck getting the answer to that!

[Vile Lynn]

Any idea who exactly was getting paid for these services?

There used to be plenty more, now there's only one I've seen hanging around the chat rooms. Revealing his name would be naming and shaming and a d!ck move on my part.

Good luck getting the answer to that!

hmm... any chance it could be a GREE mole in a shill acct?

[Weasel]

There used to be plenty more, now there's only one I've seen hanging around the chat rooms. Revealing his name would be naming and shaming and a d!ck move on my part.

So you won't name and shame, but you'll evade the forum censor?

Reporting individuals like these boss killers wouldn't be a jerk move at all. These people use a vpn to fake their location so they can buy gold in markets where the price is lower, using currency given to them by others in exchange for boss damage/kills, and do so on a scale that qualifies them for the gold bonus program.

And people wonder why Gree seems extra greedy lately. It's like shoplifting. Eventually the losses get recovered from the honest individuals actually paying for product.

If Gree would just stop Raid Boss jumping they'd eat fewer losses. In any other event it costs vaults of gold to gain the amount of stats that people have been getting for little or no cost from Raid Boss.

Personally, I don't really care what they do. Game experience changes very little with a stat increase, so jumping doesn't really affect anyone but Gree. If they think it's wise to allow a free stat giveaway for one week every month, and then require vaults of gold for a similar stat increase the rest of the time, so be it. They also have people who think the game should be run in such a way that there is an advantage to be gained by avoiding actually playing.

Edit: As an afterthought, one good way to stop jumping for free stats would be to include the infamous XP prizes along with each loot item earned. Each legendary coming with an extra 250 XP may serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

[TheWarthog]

Short answer: I think the majority of players would prefer to jump. Which is precisely why Gree will end it.

Longer answer: More of a question. If you would end it, at what level would you reasonably expect a syndicate could finish the elite levels? If there are 10k syndicates and only the top 5 could complete with insane gold expenditure, you're looking at a .05% completion rate. Dont you think thats a bit drastic? So, what would be reasonable? .001 without gold, .01% with some gold use, .1% with moderate gold use, 1% with heavy?

[Vile Lynn]

Reporting individuals like these boss killers wouldn't be a jerk move at all. These people use a vpn to fake their location so they can buy gold in markets where the price is lower, using currency given to them by others in exchange for boss damage/kills, and do so on a scale that qualifies them for the gold bonus program.

And people wonder why Gree seems extra greedy lately. It's like shoplifting. Eventually the losses get recovered from the honest individuals actually paying for product.

This is why GREE changed the Gold Buyers Club from vaults bought to amount of money spent. Cheaters were buying cheap vaults.

Edit: As an afterthought, one good way to stop jumping for free stats would be to include the infamous XP prizes along with each loot item earned. Each legendary coming with an extra 250 XP may serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

^ not a bad idea

[Weasel]

This is why GREE changed the Gold Buyers Club from vaults bought to amount of money spent. Cheaters were buying cheap vaults.

They probably changed it because they started running wars every 3 weeks, and they always run 20% off sales during war. People were, and mostly still are, waiting until the sale comes on to stock up. Why would they give people a bonus for timing their purchase of 5 vaults so it only cost them the equivalent of 4 vaults? That wasn't cheating, but it sure cut into the bottom line.

Changing it because of cheaters buying cheap vaults would end up actually giving the cheaters more gold. They have to spend more to qualify, which means they get more gold up front before getting their monthly bonus. They're paying for that gold with currency given to them for in game services, so they don't care what it costs because they spent nothing out of pocket.

If Gree were to change anything about that program because of abuse, it would be the amounts of bonus given, which has happened at least once. Their last resort would be to end that program entirely, but they would piss off their biggest whales in doing so.

[Blaggard]

What do the T5 do after they finish RB after about 3 hrs? Farm for 7 days?

Mix it up, help some others out...

As I said in the other thread, I'm amazed by this anti-jumper group when most of you are in teams that have no chance of finishing without jumpers...!

[Vile Lynn]

I don't know... How fast do the top syndicates finish RB in CC?

I ask because Waffleking, a developer, basically said in an AMA the Kingdom Age RB was outrageously high & almost impossible because the top guilds were finishing in a few hours; the increase in health was to make it more challenging for the top guilds. Nothing could have been further from the truth: no top guild in KA has ever finished in a few hours... makes me wonder about their "data". KA has always used jumpers, long before CC became such a friendly, free-for-all.

If the RB health is dictated by data from past RBs, we're screwed like MW got screwed; my faction completely skipped RB. It sucked.