Facebook, Gree Forum, and 6 star Armors

[The Calling]

You contradict yourself, Calling. First you say that 'free' players rightfully don't matter because of the often-heard mantra 'Gree needs to make money'*. Then you say 'there is a slight chance they may spend some money' --- which is exactly my point. Actually I know few players who didn't spend money on K&D at some point, do you? And then there are the collectors of so-called 'free' gems who also raise money for Gree through the ads they watch (look up marketing research on how much cash value researchers currently attribute to 1 minute of attention on smart phones). There are countless great games on Google Play that are solely financed by optional ingame videos, and they have existed for years, so certainly there is no need to squeeze players until they turn away in anger, in order to produce a fantastic game. Apart from all that, even if Gree has an extremely money-hungry management, it's really most basic market economics to create an as-wide-as-possible customer base that is happy with your product - to keep big spenders happy by giving them something exclusive, and the small spenders or even 'free' players happy by making them feel part of the 'real' family and pampering them, hoping and calculating (!) that quite a few will want nothing as much as to belong to the 'big ones' one day. What Gree did during the last months though, was exactly the opposite of both strategies if you think it through.

The so-called 'free' players are a customer group Gree neglected carelessly (or ignorantly) since many months, interrupted by some temporary (accidental? ) excitement during the first two Heroic events. This failure already starts to pay back if you look at the partially hatred Google Play reviews of K&D (I don't remember reading such bad reviews when I started 1.5yrs ago), and it feels to me that even long-term players who threw considerable amounts of money at the game are slowly getting upset by some recent moves of Gree and the constant tickling of our purses that in its omnipresence slowly starts to choke most fun out of the game. The game idea is genious, I just hope the greed department won't push it too far and run it down completely. It's not too late yet to repair some of the damage that has been done. I am sure there are people working for Gree who actually know all of that - but maybe they would need the courage to stand up and to fight a little bit to keep the game a long-lasting cash cow instead of a gold shower that will end once the last morons will have turned their back on it.

* no one contradicts that here as far as I can see, we're all living on this planet. ;-)

I don't see how I contradicted myself, yes there is a slight chance for non spenders to spend, that is the fact of life and fact of the game. We all have that choice, but we know that for a business to stay in business, it MUST look after its bread makers. Gree is not the game to make all consumers happy, they are in the game to make spenders happy. Look at what they offer then what they do to make it worse rather than better.

Why would Gree care about non spenders, it generates no income. Yes Gree is notorious for making a good idea and turning into something horrible. I agree there should be some considerations towards the free player but why would they. There are always newer players coming aboard everyday. Yes the reviews are showing how people feel. Here is my issue, complain, it is good for you, but don't threaten to leave but still play or do not continue to spend when you say you are done. This comment is not directed towards anyone, it is just a statement of what I see.

BTW I am not defending Gree just saying what the obvious is

[Regretz]

I just think its funny that this game is labeled as a "free-to-play" game, but we all kno its not. If u dont spend ur gonna have limited things to do, and have no fun with ur mediocre armors. Its free to play, spend to stay. Im surprised Gree hasnt made this game cost anything to download yet. *knock on wood"

[Konny]

Why would Gree care about non spenders, it generates no income.

Free players provide content for gemmers.

There are lots and lots of players and guilds like my own with just 2 or 3 active people. We lose every war where the opposing guild has at least one gemmer. This is in the very low brackets, best we ever managed was like 1500th. If guilds like mine were not present, all the light gemmers who stomp us would face heavier gemmers and might decide to quit gemming.

I have no problem with that, I know that Knights and Dragons is a pay to win game at heart.

[The Calling]

Free players provide content for gemmers.

There are lots and lots of players and guilds like my own with just 2 or 3 active people. We lose every war where the opposing guild has at least one gemmer. This is in the very low brackets, best we ever managed was like 1500th. If guilds like mine were not present, all the light gemmers who stomp us would face heavier gemmers and might decide to quit gemming.

I have no problem with that, I know that Knights and Dragons is a pay to win game at heart.

Free players do not provide content. All they provide is easy wins for gemmers. Also you could say that light gemmer may step up their game and spend more.

If anything, pay to play players provide content. They are the ones that give their money to Gree and they are the ones that support (money wise) changes in the game. Free to play players provide nothing ( money wise again) to Gree, they need the rope in the free to play players and hopefully turn them into pay to play ( there is no contradiction here, since all companies want to have free people spend money no matter how small). We need to remember that no matter what, Gree will cater to those who spend.

KnD is and always has been a pay to win, like most games. The more you spend, the more you are likely to get a superior weapon, armor, cape, etc etc. I know that it can be frustrating for them to change the rules that favor the spenders since the gap grows with every war, raid, chest update. But this is the world we live in.

[Lord P]

Free to play........ this pertains to the map. You can win the map which means complete the Kingdom of Darkness without ever spending any of your own money. Yes, you can win the game for free.

Heroic Mode was advertised as a free addition to the map. It is quickly becoming a "free to play as long as you're not trying to get the top prize" addition to the game.

You can also win other prizes for free in wars, blitzes and raids however the best prizes are for paying customers by design. F2p players can save up the gems they earn throughout the game and pay for the opportunity for top level prizes............ they'll just be able to do it less frequently than paying gamers.

Paying for the top prizes is pretty consistent in Knights & Dragons. This is the reason why you have special events every weekend. Unless this game generates income, you won't see these special events and special prizes as frequently, if at all.

Once this becomes clear to players then they can make a choice.......... to be satisfied with the game, knowing that they'll have to spend money if they want a frequent shot at the best prizes, or find anther game that gives them what they're looking for.

To be honest I'm actually looking forward to the release of the Dragonforged armor. I'm not even considering going for the mono elements, so hopefully I'll get a month or two of vacation time from t10/t25 pushes. This will give me plenty of time to reevaluate my commitment to the game and see whether I want to continue spending money for the opportunity to get 6 star, multi-element, armors once they come out....... I might be turning into a f2p gamer.

[Marco_]

Why would Gree care about non spenders, it generates no income.

Of course they do. Referring others to the game and also in general bloating the download numbers on Google Play Store and Itunes, causing "lot's of people play it, so so should I" herd mentality/gravity sucking people in.

I just think its funny that this game is labeled as a "free-to-play" game, but we all kno its not. If u dont spend ur gonna have limited things to do, and have no fun with ur mediocre armors. Its free to play, spend to stay. Im surprised Gree hasnt made this game cost anything to download yet. *knock on wood"

I wonder when we will reach a tipping point where many people will see any mention of "free to play with in-game purchases" as "I don't trust that it's a game where you can get far without spending more than you'd do for a console/PC game, so to be safe let's not invest time into that game".
The minority pay2win games are ruining the "free to play with in-game purchases" tag for the games where you don't have to fork over a whole paycheck to get far... They really should be shoved into a seperate category.

(accounts for games like KnD, probably consist 90+% of dead ones (lots probably after a few minutes, just installed to get the offered currency in another game), of the remaining 10% or less that are active, likely the vast majority isn't very cluefull about the game (maxing 2*/3*/old epic boss armors, combining 1* with 4*, combining their best 4* armors to get epics instead of only using spare 4* to gamble for epics etc.) and of the minority that is cluefull, probably a few percent are the big spenders.
On android, about 10k people make it to epic boss 43 each week and I really should try stopping 1 of my alts at epic boss 14 or 15 one week to check, but I doubt more than 50k make it there. Android downloads is listed as over 5 million, so 0.2% of accounts ever created gets to epic boss lvl 43 right now and probably no more than 1% for lvl 15. We are playing in a massive graveyard. )

[Fossil]

I hope I can be the voice of reason for those that still enjoy playing this game. I say bring it on Gree! Give us better war prizes. Better raid prizes. Better chest prizes etc. I feel that the idea of competition and of building something out of nothing is lost on most of the posters here. Same people complain on every thread that the game requires no skill. I agree. The game only caters to spenders. I agree. The game caters to top guilds. I agree. Now... Whats not being said is what it takes to create that top guild. This goes way beyond are tactics or spending. It's a management skill akin to any successful business in the real world. I know this is "just a game", I understand that but the truth is non of these top guilds got to the top by purely gem spending, alliances, stripping etc. Every top guild in this game was build by dedicated people that saw more to this game than just the prize. We all fought our hearts out for a crappy eb armor we fused away months ago, not for the prize but for the pride. To grow our guilds. Better placement in wars equals better recruits. Better recruits equals better placement in wars. And on and on. The same people constantly complain about the dynamics of the game without realizing this. If u think it's fair for #1-500 to win the same or similar prize I suggest u go play kickball with 2nd graders. Enjoy your "I participated ribbon". Or you can devote the time and effort building a guild that compete in this game. 90% of the others in this game strive for that. I don't understand why the forums are so plagued by 10% that just want everything given to them.

I would challenge you to build a new guild from scratch in the current environment, recruiting new players or at the very least not using players within your current guild alliance. You belong to a guild that has been long established and therefore is not subject to many of the dynamics that others are working through. There are a limited number of "gemmers" left out there and the number is dropping every week. In addition, since the "noobs" coming into the game are already at a big enough disadvantage given the current landscape, adding another armor tier is yet another obstacle to make them rethink committing to the game.

Instead of belittling those who are asking GREE to reconsider the pace of their changes, maybe you should become an advocate for positive and constructive changes that induce player retention and help keep the game viable for new entries.

[roookey1]

On android, about 10k people make it to epic boss 43 each week and I really should try stopping 1 of my alts at epic boss 14 or 15 one week to check, but I doubt more than 50k make it there. Android downloads is listed as over 5 million, so 0.2% of accounts ever created gets to epic boss lvl 43 right now and probably no more than 1% for lvl 15. We are playing in a massive graveyard. )

wow, that's extremely low compared to other games; something must go really wrong here.

But imagine what loads of cash they could make if they'd 'understand' their users, integrate them, give them something that creates a tie to the game (apart from only the 'I don't want to write off my previous investments' angle), make competitions more balanced and close exploits! Even if they'd 'only' raise the 1% to a mere 2%, it would effectively double their profit. Even if some of the 'simpler minds' with some 'elite complex' would break away if the game would be made more balanced, a broader user base (that at some point, almost always spends ...if they'd just stay long enough in the game!!) would easily make up for it.

[roookey1]

WORD, Fossil! I'm with a +/- 30 players guild, and it's a constant join & leave. Not because I'd consider myself a bad GM ;-) , seriously, but simply because people - after a short phase of motivation, as we usually make it into T500 without pushing anyone to spend gems - give up on wars once they realize how rigged the war system is and how ridiculous the rewards for 3 days of constant playing feel. The 'guild seekers' feature actually made it more difficult for us, as players offering themselves on this 'market' will of course look for the best offers - and surely a (claimed) 'T50' sounds much better than 'T500' (although the rewards are pretty much the same...lol).

Yes, the 'top' guilds can choose, but below T25, it got much harder to find motivated players, and especially to keep them motivated. Usually, once they figured out that better rewards are waaaay out of reach (they are still legendary up to T26!) unless they are ready to spend a few hundred $$$ per war, they start to become more and more inactive to the point when we have to kick them. That was different 1.5 years ago. Something has been done to the game and it's not something that proposes good entertainment for an occasional dollar anymore. So I guess most newbies can feel the cashier waiting around the corner after a few days or weeks of playing, and will start look for something that feels more rewarding without that much pressure to spend. I can also observe that in the low-level part of my friends list: most players already quit within the first 1-2 weeks, then another critical phase seems to be when all stages have been mastered and out of a sudden, epics (soon, 6-stars) and buckloads of time are in fact basic requirements to continue to have fun in the remaining parts of the game.