How is it possible?

[Bravo Zulu]

The only way you are making sense is if each of the teams has deploy points on ONLY ONE node. If team 1 scores 300k deploy points on one node and team 2 scores 270k on a separate node then highest deploy points are highest control points. However, that is not usually the case. Generally team 1 deploys over several nodes as does team 2.

If you lose a node your team still gets your own deploy points. If you win a node, you get your teams deploy points PLUS the points deployed by the other team (s). Thus your teams points plus that deployed by other team = control points.

What you are missing is that BOTH TEAMS get the deploy points that are calculated into control points. The deploy points don't get subtracted from the team who lost the node.

Team 1 deploys 300k. Team 2 deploys 270k. Say over two nodes. But team 1 tried to steal (or had players who couldn't follow directions) a node and deployed 20k on the node team 2 eventually won. Team 1 still gets 300k deploy points but only 280 count for control points. Team 2 gets 270k deploy points but 290 count for control points. Thus team 2 is winning the war with fewer deploys.

See?

[Ozymandias]

The only way you are making sense is if each of the teams has deploy points on ONLY ONE node. If team 1 scores 300k deploy points on one node and team 2 scores 270k on a separate node then highest deploy points are highest control points. However, that is not usually the case. Generally team 1 deploys over several nodes as does team 2.

If you lose a node your team still gets your own deploy points. If you win a node, you get your teams deploy points PLUS the points deployed by the other team (s). Thus your teams points plus that deployed by other team = control points.

What you are missing is that BOTH TEAMS get the deploy points that are calculated into control points. The deploy points don't get subtracted from the team who lost the node.

Team 1 deploys 300k. Team 2 deploys 270k. Say over two nodes. But team 1 tried to steal (or had players who couldn't follow directions) a node and deployed 20k on the node team 2 eventually won. Team 1 still gets 300k deploy points but only 280 count for control points. Team 2 gets 270k deploy points but 290 count for control points. Thus team 2 is winning the war with fewer deploys.

See?

Well that misses out the deploy multiplier, but nonetheless, the original scenario had 1 team deploying more, but not winning a single node. Your scenario has two teams each winning a node each, but the team deploying less winning overall... completely different scenario, and obviously feasible.

[andy2]

Well that misses out the deploy multiplier, but nonetheless, the original scenario had 1 team deploying more, but not winning a single node. Your scenario has two teams each winning a node each, but the team deploying less winning overall... completely different scenario, and obviously feasible.

Yes that is not the scenario I described at all.

[Loser]

Frontline 2.jpg

Does this look like what you're talking about?

[andy2]

Frontline 2.jpg

Does this look like what you're talking about?

Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

[Tony81]

Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

The fact is it's not possible. Many argue the fact and it just makes me think less of their intelligence. Lol. Math doesn't lie.

[andy2]

The fact is it's not possible. Many argue the fact and it just makes me think less of their intelligence. Lol. Math doesn't lie.

Thats why I created the thread my friend. I see it all too often, and it usually hurts my team a couple times per event. I want to stop wasting gold, and think we deserve to be refunded for these fights where we lost but should have won according to the math.

[Ozymandias]

Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

Theres 200m of control points missing from that pic

[Bravo Zulu]

Yes that is not the scenario I described at all.

Yeah- it could be. In the pic did you guys notice team 3? How many points they scored? Those points obviously went to the winning team. Remember in my post how I said whoever controls the node in the end wins those deploy points as controls points? And the splash screen still shows team 3 with their own deploy points because both them and the winner of the node get them. They don't show as deploy points under the winner- just as control. If you add team 3s points to the winners, they won with control points.

Control points are how you win in frontline. Not deploys. If it were just deploys there would be no such thing as control points.

But go ahead and keep fighting it. You will keep losing not because Gree rigged it- but because you fail to understand and strategize.

[andy2]

Yeah- it could be. In the pic did you guys notice team 3? How many points they scored? Those points obviously went to the winning team. Remember in my post how I said whoever controls the node in the end wins those deploy points as controls points? And the splash screen still shows team 3 with their own deploy points because both them and the winner of the node get them. They don't show as deploy points under the winner- just as control. If you add team 3s points to the winners, they won with control points. Ozy is correct, if you add up all of the deploy points and calculate how many control points should have been generated on all of the nodes combined that picture is roughly 150m+ short.

Control points are how you win in frontline. Not deploys. If it were just deploys there would be no such thing as control points.

But go ahead and keep fighting it. You will keep losing not because Gree rigged it- but because you fail to understand and strategize.

Oh lord, I get how deploy points and control points work. The point is that you get the control points by having more deploy points on a node than any other team. And if team2 has more total deploy points in total, how can team1 have had more deploy points on every single node - needed in order to win all of the control points? It isn't possible. Also Ozy is correct, if you calculate how many control points should be awarded, based on the number of deploy points there is at least 150m points missing.

Lastly, just so you are clear... I am not arguing that based on the points awarded in that screenshot that the team that won should not have. I am arguing that they should not have won all of the control points, because based on the deploy point totals they could not have won every single node.

[Ozymandias]

Ok, so as promised, here’s some data from 48 battles over the last 2 frontlines… our faction has kept track of FL battle results for most of this year.



The data shows the total deploy and control points earned by all 3 teams combined in each battle. The majority of the battles are on the straight line, which has a gradient (ignoring the outliers) of pretty close to 36% or 1/2.75, where 2.75 is the max deploy multiplier. In any one decent sized battle the total number of control points available should be equal to 36% the total deploy points. 36% of deploy points incidentally is the control points you can earn if you deploy on one node, completely unopposed.

However, there a clear outlier (plus a few others just off the line, particularly in bigger battles). This is the battle result of the outlier… the last battle of the war, where the main node was continually changing hands up to the last moment.




1.3b deploy points are scored, but only 400m control points are earned (30%), so we seem to be missing roughly 80m points.

As I say, the battle was very close one until the end, as well as being the last battle of the event, … so it might be the case that deploy points don’t necessarily calculate correctly when servers are under-strain, perhaps particularly if nodes are changing hands in the last few seconds.

Now one alternative explanation would be that the relationship isn’t meant to be a linear one, and that there is an extra hidden deploy multiplier that kicks in at higher deploy levels (as suggested in the FAQ), increasing the deploy points scored for a given number of deploys and control points. However if we look at points per deploy scored across all the battles….



… we see that control points per deploy are lower in bigger battles… falling below 10k, whereas deploy points remain pretty constant at 27,500 per deploy…. So again this would seem to suggest that control points are getting lost in bigger battles.

Finally, if I expand the dataset to include a few more wars, we see more of a scatter, with more battles below the line… which at least does at least seem to suggest it used to be more of an issue than it is today.




However, it would seem that there still is a problem with under-recording of control points in the very biggest battles, with obviously big impacts on the points scored by the factions affected. Unless anyone has an alternative interpretation?

Ps, yesterday I thought that I had some battles where too many deploy points were awarded, however after double checking the data, this doesn’t seem to be the case

[andy2]

Ozy, thank you very much, it is great to actually have some data to support my hypothesis. I have long thought that these deploys are getting lost in the servers and not counting as control points on the node, your analysis pretty much helps to prove this.

This really does need Gree attention ASAP. I don't get how other issues get answered and this one keeps getting passed over. This affected our team multiple times last war and cost us multiple big wars. We were out deploying the opposing team, yet all of their deploys were counting on the node, and ours werent. In the end they took control of all nodes, while we had a higher deploy point total... not possible. Gree, we have plenty of evidence to support this... please do something about it.

[SGT Rud]

Well that misses out the deploy multiplier, but nonetheless, the original scenario had 1 team deploying more, but not winning a single node. Your scenario has two teams each winning a node each, but the team deploying less winning overall... completely different scenario, and obviously feasible.

The deploy multiplier on a node is something not seen. Something behind the scenes. The 2.75 deploy multiplier in the bottom left of your screen has nothing to do with what is happening on a node.

Control points are nothing more than a total of points added together for the points on the nodes you control. On the final flash screen, you cannot see what was deployed on a node, only the points you deployed out, and the control points. What goes on a node is different from what you deploy in the bottom left of the screen.

A gunner is 10000. A gunner in bottom left at 2.75 bonus is 27500. A gunner on a node with 2.75 is 10000. the 2.75 doesnt go on a node. The modifier of up to 5x depending on what the other team deploys as well, is not shown on any persons screen in FL. It is hidden. And my guess would be that it is designed to benefit the team that already holds the node. I am also going to assume that the nodes initial points also goes into the hidden modifier. The Command Center is worth 1000, so your first deploy of a gunner isnt 10000, its 11000, but only on that node, and the 1000 points isnt added to your deploy points on bottom left either. Possibly later in the node battle that 1000 points comes into play with the 5x modifier in some way.

[Ozymandias]

The deploy multiplier on a node is something not seen. Something behind the scenes. The 2.75 deploy multiplier in the bottom left of your screen has nothing to do with what is happening on a node.

Control points are nothing more than a total of points added together for the points on the nodes you control. On the final flash screen, you cannot see what was deployed on a node, only the points you deployed out, and the control points. What goes on a node is different from what you deploy in the bottom left of the screen.

A gunner is 10000. A gunner in bottom left at 2.75 bonus is 27500. A gunner on a node with 2.75 is 10000. the 2.75 doesnt go on a node. The modifier of up to 5x depending on what the other team deploys as well, is not shown on any persons screen in FL. It is hidden. And my guess would be that it is designed to benefit the team that already holds the node. I am also going to assume that the nodes initial points also goes into the hidden modifier. The Command Center is worth 1000, so your first deploy of a gunner isnt 10000, its 11000, but only on that node, and the 1000 points isnt added to your deploy points on bottom left either. Possibly later in the node battle that 1000 points comes into play with the 5x modifier in some way.

There's no evidence of any hidden node level multiplier... Max deploy points per deploy is 27.5k, max control points per deploy is 10k.

[SGT Rud]

20691 + 18102 + 10628 = 49421 total deploys You take your total deploys and and add up the unit strengths of all the deploys, and you will equal the total control points at the end. Problem is you cant tell if the deploy was a gunner or a tank or a boat.