Gems should be considered super weapons

[roookey1]

I'm currently in a guild with about 30 members of which 20+ are active in wars on a regular basis, the others are taking it easy.

Somehow, all of us feel, the assignment of guilds is really messed up and frustrating: although we would win most battles if strictly counted with a max. of 6 battles per fight, we (very) often LOSE because we're gemmed to death by 1 or 2 individuals in the other guild who spend gems like crazy. Last battle, for instance: 2 players of the other guild did a total of 38 (!) fights and accounted for almost 60% of their points. Without those two, we'd have won although most of us are not gemming (only 2 or 3 are sometimes spending 10 for another round of 4).

While K&D calculates points based on the opponent's strength (weaker armor against stronger one gives more points if a battle is won, for example), the gemming factor is not counted in at all, although it doubles, triples, quatruples etc. his effective 'power', yet if a player 'gems' repeatedly, he will even get exactly the same number of points every time! This can lead to ridiculous situations when I - as the GM with pretty okay epics - are beaten for 30 or more times by just 1 person in the opposing guild, in some cases (like: latest war epics on the other side, received from 'alliance' a.k.a. stripping conglomerate membership) when even armor switching doesn't help, I can basically stop engaging myself in the battle as there is no way for our guild of winning anymore. An ugly feeling I tell ya, to effectively be 'responsible' for our loss! While 1-2 players ready to buy a win can beat a whole guild of which most players are active and even winning their regular battles!!
So logically, gemmers should be calculated like fighting with a super-weapon only someone doing the same on the other side can match with.

I think even the blindest fanboys will admit that the current system ridicules the whole idea of a world-wide competition (even when turning a blind eye on cheating=stripping, and the otherwordly top guilds with war reward armor that is pretty much immune to attacks for 2+ months). I get the point: gems are what are making this company money. They can continue to do so: but give them a tier where they can compete with other gemmers for nice and shiny armor, but leave the others, who simply can't afford that much money to compete on a similar level or simply don't want to buy their wins, compete with their own likes to keep at least some balance.

Something else that feels funny (but very few guilds seem to realize) is that it actually doesn't matter at all if a gemming guild reaches #26 (as it is, that's just possible by spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars), if a very active one reaches #250 or a semi-active one reaches #500: the rewards are really pretty much the same. Who cares about 1 dark prince key or 1 ridiculous fusion stone more or less? So we found that we are very comfortable settling for something between 450-500 - we don't need gems/cheating/stripping for that, and trying for more isn't really worth any additional effort (especially as we WILL get outgemmed anyway, the higher we get).

I think that with the flood of wars we now have to deal with, the time is really ripe for a renewal of the guild war system. Either (at least!) deduct points for every 7th+ fight or assign guilds with a certain percentage of gems contributing to their number of battles to another tier where they can out-gem each other. But many of us feel increasingly annoyed (now twice a week!) by 'losing' simply because we rarely gem, NOT because we're inactive (often enough, just the opposite comparing to the other guild, but it doesn't matter, because just 1 or 2 of them can completely make up for 30 or more non-gemming players, you get the point?).

[Rhaegal]

I don't know where to start except to say, I completely understand your frustration. I'm gonna be really really blunt but honest here and say, if you want a fair and balanced game where the best man wins, this IS NOT IT! Period.

This is very much a "spend to win" game and nothing is going to change that. I barely use gems in guild wars anymore because even using gems, if you don't strip, you're at a huge disadvantage, and I won't belong to a stripping guild. That's a personal choice, I don't condemn thiose who do.

Instead I concentrate my efforts on raids because there at least your "strength" can be a mitigating factor to someone else's gems. Plus the rewards for spending gems are better since you get milestone rewards, personal rank leaderboard rewards, in guild leaderboard rewards, and guild vs guild leaderboard rewards.

[MisterT]

I think that with the flood of wars we now have to deal with, the time is really ripe for a renewal of the guild war system. Either (at least!) deduct points for every 7th+ fight or assign guilds with a certain percentage of gems contributing to their number of battles to another tier where they can out-gem each other. But many of us feel increasingly annoyed (now twice a week!) by 'losing' simply because we rarely gem, NOT because we're inactive (often enough, just the opposite comparing to the other guild, but it doesn't matter, because just 1 or 2 of them can completely make up for 30 or more non-gemming players, you get the point?).

Welcome to a world where money talks. If you want T25, then you will have to spend gems. Some wars more then others.

[Fossil]

The way I see it is if you want to win, you have three options. Gem, gem, or gem. Let's not lose sight of the fact that like any other business, GREE is here to make money. They don't sell in-game advertising, nor charge for the game itself. This leaves a limited number of avenues to make the money that pays the people that develop the game. Do I like it? No, but I understand the concept and spend my money accordingly. Given the circumstances, you either need to be content with your current performance or choose another game that just charges a flat monthly hosting fee. Some of my friends are retiring and moving on to play such games.

[UberBoonNL]

I just laugh about Gem spenders in guild wars.. We usualy end up top 8 to 500 we got 9 people in our guild all very active, and the guilds we lose to allmost allways spend gems... The funny thing is most of the time theyre total score is lower then ours... Thats why i laugh about it... they spend tons of gems probably bought with rl money... to win 50k coins more... instead of buying chance chests for epic gear... or spend it in arena, or boss raid to win way better prizes... people that spend gems on guild wars are Noobs!! + All the gear that can be won in wars eventualy ends up in a chance chest

[roookey1]

[double post, sry]

[roookey1]

@MisterT: T25 is a gemming war and a cheating competition (stripping = tricking), nothing else - we are not interested at all in that, as already mentioned.

@Fossil: we don't want to WIN in a game under such circumstances anyway. As said, the only way to 'win' currently is to buy it. My concern is basically what is does to the game. Why even give different reward points for different armors if 1 purchased energy completely neutralizes the advantage of ANY armor? As you yourself mentioned, many players engage themselves in wars for some time, but then quickly get tired once they figure out how pointless it is to show real effort (unless they gem).

@UberBoon: exactly my point. I've attached a few screenshots to illustrate.



Quickly after the start of the battle, one player came in. As usual, I was hit, then the champ, but as we switched gear, he moved on to another player, let's say his nick was 'Adam'. Adam was not present in the game as he has to work on Sundays, so he was a good victim (because of not switching) - from then on, this player beat his character for dozens of times, pretty much without a break, sucked thousands of points out of him till the end of the battle. The rest of his guild was pretty much inactive while ours was pretty active, so with only 2 of us spending a few gems, we made more than 21k points. Needless to say, our effort was completely neutralized by this ONE single player of a mostly inactive guild who made 26k points only by himself. Against a player not even participating, so all of us (30 players) could just watch ourselves losing against all 'logic'.

And if that were enough, after he had topped our score, he changed his nick to 'Bendover Adam' and then continued to beat him. We are too much gentlemen-like to do anything about it, it's just to illustrate how degenerative and negative the atmosphere can become if a single person gets so much 'power'.

Here's to illustrate the insane result of a war with such 'rules':



This scenario happened to us for 4 (!) times during this war. On top of that, I was contacted by 3 individuals via the Line app asking whether we want to 'strip'. It's demotivating, ridiculous and stupid to engage in wars under the current rules.

[MisterT]

@MisterT: T25 is a gemming war and a cheating competition (stripping = tricking), nothing else - we are not interested at all in that, as already mentioned.

First war we went in as Kings and Conquerors, we ended up in T25. We used gems but didn't strip. In our guild you don't have to use gems if you can't/won't, we have some that use gems anyway.

[MisterT]

All the gear that can be won in wars eventualy ends up in a chance chest

War epics don't end up in chests, they may become fusable but never in chests.

[XBDMRRFPN]

not a big deal anyway
I participate just to get some fusion stone and stuff like this
no gems spent in wars (maybe 10 gems coming from the Arena or similar but very rarely) no money spent in any case

[Head-Hunter Arc]

IMO, the biggest issue is the ****ty rewards, you get absolutely nothing of value unless you place top 25. it really is ridiculous. GREE might actually make more money if they offered better rewards for the lower ranks so that they are worth competing for. they could give away older epics that aren't as good as the winners will get. at least that would be useful as opposed to 3/4* armors that cant even try to compare to EP armors.

[roookey1]

Nooooooo, no more 'older epics' please, if one wants them, the chests already contain enough of them.
I can't see no 'tectonic mantle', 'Moontide' or 'Northerners' anymore, they lead to hyperacidity in my stomach.
Really enough that the 'reward' for 4 weeks of grinding armor for the Christmas event is just another outdated epic. I'm already 'highly excited' to fuse it, and by that, receive my regulary slap in the face when getting some dusty legendary as the output of an epic fusion.

[Scabs]

So you're basically complaining that people spend gems to win? I'm pretty sure that's how this game works and how Gree makes their money.

[roookey1]

[ ] you got the point

[Mike WDragon]

I understand your frustration but I don't agree with your premise. Gems are part of the game. Players should be able to use their gems as they wish. If that means scoring 30k points in a battle, so be it. What you want is a "free-energy" only guild war so your guild has a chance of winning but that's not going to happen. We all understand its F2P but if you want to win or place high in war, you will need to use gems. With that understanding, if you don't want to use gems, accept the fact that your guild may not be able to get a higher rank and be at peace with that.

As for that guy who changed his name to taunt you, it's a classless act and I agree there's no place for that in the community. Good luck to you and your guild!