lol, I thought you posted, "I'm back." Ooopsie.
Now that I can read, why do you support that flag?
lol, I thought you posted, "I'm back." Ooopsie.
Now that I can read, why do you support that flag?
Cause he's a rebel, yo.
Why do I support the Confederate flag?
Because...
America
If you want to hear about my views on racism, there's a video on youtube called "MK loves racism". You can totally check that out if you want, or not I really don't care.
Sucks to be me... I still use my 1sy gen iPad and cannot view youtubes on it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Loves You
I'd totally check it out if I could.
I believe I've told you before....android is the way to go. :)
Interesting poll
From the perspective of banning it from public property, I don't really care either way too much. If the government (the entity that claims a monopoly on the initiation of violence within a given geographical region) wants to ban it on THEIR property, I couldn't care less. Perhaps if I had to tweeze it out, I'd say if it would cost the tax-cows more to ban it, then I guess I wouldn't want it banned on their (government) property. But like I said before, I don't care too much what that violent organization does with their own property.
As far as private property is concerned, I cannot possibly see how that can be justified, assuming that humans should be free from oppression. To have the government tell me what flag I can fly on my own property seems like that's against the first amendment (not like that isn't being violated already by other acts of the federal government). I would go so far as to say that I should be able to fly the ISIS flag on my private property if I chose to. Remember, the first amendment isn't for freedom to talk about the weather.
Also, if we wanted to be morally consistent, IF the reason for wanting to ban it from public or private property is because many murders have been committed under that flag, THEN you should want the federal government flag (stars and stripes) banned from public and private property, because many many more murders have been committed under that flag. FYI.
Of course, if you don't want to be morally consistent, and just act on emotions, then I guess wanting the confederate flag banned and not the federal flag banned, would make sense.
Edit: Thoughts? Clarification on my points? I'd love to hear from those who disagree (want them banned, at least on private property)
I'm slightly impressed by your definition of government. Too many people don't seem to get that.
My only thought is that I have not seen anyone (to be taken seriously) that this flag, or any flag for that matter, would be banned on private property. I have seen no legislation suggesting that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMI
What I have seen is SC react and decide that they don't want their government buildings to fly it, probably for a number of reasons. One may be whatever connection to slavery that flag may represent to some people, but possibly also that the flag represents secession, and we are pretty unified these days. Anyway, given how fast SC passed legislation, and by what margin they did, the church shootings were apparently merely a catalyst for what many people in SC have been thinking for some time.
I am not a fan of some suggestions that statues and monuments get removed that are of rebel generals, etc. You can't whitewash history, and while it is debatable that these monuments "celebrate" rebel pride, they do represent history, and they are not easily replaced. I hope everybody just calms down a little over this.
Okay TMI, I checked out this thread based on your suggestion. I voted to ban on public property. I see no reason for any flag that is not the US flag or a state flag to fly on public property (unless it's a public monument dedicated to a confederate battle or a like instance). Should Texas fly the flag of Mexico above their capitol building since that is a part of their heritage? If Wal-Mart, Amazon or another retailer wants to stop selling flags, that's their prerogative. They need to base this decision based on how it reflects upon their Mission Statement, their customers and their bottom line. However, I think they've gone too far when banning CD's that may have an image of the flag, as I'm sure they are still selling many other CD's that have racist images and/or lyrics. This is a slippery slope to go down.
Here's my view on the whole thing.. who cares?
It's a flag. Of course it should be banned from public property, but who cares if someone owns a confederate flag? It's cool looking. My uncle has a Nazi knife which is pretty cool. There's nothing wrong with owning a flag.
But flying it in front of your house.. private property or not.. is messed up and you all know why. Not because of slavery. Whoever said the flag symbolizes slavery and state rights is wrong. Of course those were the reasons that drove the formation of the confederacy, but that's not what it symbolizes.
It symbolizes the darkest time in an American history where almost half of our country wanted to leave and led to the heaviest loss of American lives in any war in American history.
That's what your reminding everyone of when you fly that flag. Not southern pride or state rights or even slaves. And that's why it should be banned.
Well, you could say it symbolizes southern pride if you want, but if you're proud of the American civil war.. wow
You said a mouthful there, Evan, even as edited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan1000
"...half of our country wanted to leave...." That's powerful. Splitsville.
And that urge was suppressed by violently suppressing those who had a different conception of what America was about - and I don't mean slavery's oppression- That was what made the Civil War.
["if the Union could be saved without banning slavery...blah blah blah"/"perhaps we could just send all the blacks to Mexico" and other non-verbatims by Honest Abe]
Evan, you seem to be a student of history... looking at the events of, say, 1874 to 1890 (absent Reconstruction of course, since it would have not happened) consider the actual likelihood that The USA would not have reunited, absent slavery (and Jim Crow?) and we would have had a fairer and better Union today if only the Confederacy been allowed to peacefully depart the Union.
That's all they ever wanted.
Imagine......
Speaking as an outsider, would it be fair to say Jim Crow is a more poisonous legacy even than slavery? To be enslaved is a terrible thing, but to be supposedly free yet brutalised for a century after emancipation by the institutions of your own country (as well as by the KKK) must be worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red BD
As for the flag, it was the battle flag of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, and not the official flag of the Confederacy. To those who served in that army it represented their pride in their service, regardless of the poor cause they fought for. To southerners since then it should represent the same thing, but because of its appropriation by the KKK and other racist groups the flag is now a tainted object. We get the same stuff trotted out here by people who claim the English flag (the cross of St. George, not the Union flag) is a racist symbol because some "far right" groups have used it.
If you want the confederate flag to survive as a symbol of southern pride, then you need to fight to reclaim it from those who twist it for their own purposes, not meekly bury it.
This is the last thing I'm going to say about this idiotic debate. A flag (or any sort of symbol) doesn't have one standard meaning. A flag is a symbol and with any symbol it can represent whatever one single person wants it to represent. Southern pride doesn't mean that we support slavery! It means we love the South with it's traditions, food, accents, slang, and/or way of life etc. The argument that the KKK tainted it because they commited racist acts under it is invalid because they flew the American flag way more than the Confederate flag (also Neo-Nazi groups used the Nazi flag not the Confederate hence the reason why they have the word "nazi" in the name). The KKK believed in a "pure America" (just whites) whatever racist acts they commited was to make a greater America in their eyes. They didn't kill, torture, kidnap just because they hated anyone who wasn't white, it was because they believed they were doing it to make their country better. I have seen more white people offended over what they believe is racist against blacks than black people. That makes absolutely zero sense to me. If you're white then why are you so iffended by it? It wasn't your ancestors who were enslaved. This whole debate is stupid and people need to just leave it alone. Crap like this just causes unnecessary tension between people. So I'm asking you to just let it go. A majority of people in the South don't fly it because they're racist or support slavery (I'm sure some do) they fly it for a million other reasons you will never care to understand because you're unable to look at this from the other point of view or you're stuck believing flawed logic you've been fed your whole life without taking time to do extensive research into the topic you're debating. Don't bother responding because this will probably be the last time I visit this thread.
TL;DR Dig your panties out of your ass and let it go....