How is it possible?

... To have more deploy points in FL than another team... yet have that other team win every single node?

Gree this has happened to us many times, it seems as if our deploys are not counting on the node we are deploying them to and we are getting cheated out of hundreds of millions of points... that we spent money on. Am I missing anything here? This is not mathematically possible based upon how Gree has told us the game works. My entire team has sent in tickets to gree and we receive either no response or something completely unrelated. Where is the support? How is this possible?


To be perfectly clear I am talking about an example like this

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Scores

Team	Deploy Points	Control Points
1	300,000,000	0
2	270,000,000	200,000,000
3	0	0

How can the team who deployed 300m not win a single node? Gree staff... I have plenty of pics if you want to actually explain how any of this is mathmatically possible.

Multiplier. Ancient discussion point.

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Originally Posted by Delicious

Multiplier. Ancient discussion point.

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If all teams score over 12m, your multiplier comment is nonsense. And multiplier only affects the deploy points so it's a moot point.

I've asked people this for months and people give me answers that make absolutely no sense. It's like winning a basketball game 110-100 yet you got outscored all 4 quarters. I'd love to see for once a logical answer to this.

I would expect the same answer you got last time.
Though if I were spending money I damn sure keep asking. Good luck

read the instructions.

its perfectly clearly written in ChinEnglituaniAmericArabIaliaNoOneAtGreeKnows.

Andy I know how it is possible, i will look for you on GM and pm you.

Multiplier is not a valid reason, deploy points are multiplied. It doesn't matter what units are used to get to that total when comparing deploy points it is apples to apples. I am still waiting to hear any valid explanation for this.

Although the multiplier does factor into the points system as a whole the system is flawed. I noticed that especially when you are in the first battle as you drop units into a node you have to do it slowly. At least on droid. If you dump your units it will not give you the correct amount of rewards. Last front line I dropped 9 mill right at the beginning and only got like 4 rewards of the 25. Needless to say I was pissed. This time around I would drop just enough to get each reward one at a time. Very time consuming but at least my units were not wasted. Same issue in dropping a ton of units at once just for points.

I may be wrong but I'll give it a go... if you spread deploys out over all 5 nodes and not own those nodes when the battle expires you don't get the control points. In theory you could most certainly have more deploy points spread thin on all 5 nodes means the other 2 teams take all your deploys points into their control points.
Long and short of it.... get a better strategy for FL.
Hope that cleared it up and if I'm wrong please someone correct it to help this player.

If your point is more than the other two teams combine (as your example shows the this is a fair question, if on the other hand you are comparing it to just one of the team's then it is possible to deploy most but still end up with no nodes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by winners_win

I may be wrong but I'll give it a go... if you spread deploys out over all 5 nodes and not own those nodes when the battle expires you don't get the control points. In theory you could most certainly have more deploy points spread thin on all 5 nodes means the other 2 teams take all your deploys points into their control points.
Long and short of it.... get a better strategy for FL.
Hope that cleared it up and if I'm wrong please someone correct it to help this player.

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Yes that would be very possible and true IF Both Team2 AND Team3 won nodes. Which would look something like this:

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Sample Battle 1

Node	Team 1 Points on node	Team 2 Points on node	Team 3 Points on node
1	10,000,000	0	12,000,000
2	10,000,000	0	12,000,000
3	75,000,000	85,000,000	0
4	10,000,000	0	12,000,000
5	10,000,000	0	12,000,000

Grand Totals:
Team 1: 115,000,000 (0 nodes won)
Team 2: 85,000,000 (1 node won)
Team 3: 48,000,000 (4 nodes won)

Those scores would be the control points. And I fully get that in order to make those into deploy points you would apply the multiplier.


HOWEVER, the situation I am talking about is where Team 1 has the MOST deploy points in a battle (Higher than Team 2 AND Higher than Team 3). Yet Team 2 wins EVERY SINGLE node. This situation is not explainable by math, and only a gree glitch. I have many screenshots of this happening.

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Originally Posted by andy2

I have many screenshots of this happening.

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Yet you keep tapping. You know what they say about people that repeat the same actions expecting a difference result? :)

Then crickets will get you every time.

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Originally Posted by sstuutss

Yet you keep tapping. You know what they say about people that repeat the same actions expecting a difference result? :)

Then crickets will get you every time.

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Yes we are all stupid for continuing on playing, however, that has nothing to do with this thread, which is actually trying to elicit a serious answer from the company about a potentially major game issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by winners_win

I may be wrong but I'll give it a go... if you spread deploys out over all 5 nodes and not own those nodes when the battle expires you don't get the control points. In theory you could most certainly have more deploy points spread thin on all 5 nodes means the other 2 teams take all your deploys points into their control points.
Long and short of it.... get a better strategy for FL.
Hope that cleared it up and if I'm wrong please someone correct it to help this player.

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This is the correct answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loser

This is the correct answer.

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If you would pay attention to my description you would see this is not the case I am describing at all. One team wins all 5 of the nodes and that team has less deploy points than us. Simply mathematically not possible.

I am still waiting for any sort of Gree response on this either to a ticket or on forum. I see you have time to respond to other issues, but not this one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

If you would pay attention to my description you would see this is not the case I am describing at all. One team wins all 5 of the nodes and that team has less deploy points than us. Simply mathematically not possible.

I am still waiting for any sort of Gree response on this either to a ticket or on forum. I see you have time to respond to other issues, but not this one?

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The answer is one of two:
1 - They don't know
2 - They can't say

From what I've been told, 2 is the answer, because if all were known, a ruckus would soon become an insurrection.

DADT - don't ask, don't tell (Bill Clinton created it, used in across the DoD for years.)

Andy if you have screen shots showing it please do so. Show a node and the final score. I don't think you've said anything at this point that reveals a problem. And as no one has really replied in support of what you have described I would venture a guess that there really isn't a problem. A lot is screwed up but if there's one thing that is true when it is screwed up there is no shortage of people to support it. Right now you are only one. I'm not knocking you, I think you and/or your team misunderstand how this event works.

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Originally Posted by Edbl79

Andy if you have screen shots showing it please do so. Show a node and the final score. I don't think you've said anything at this point that reveals a problem. And as no one has really replied in support of what you have described I would venture a guess that there really isn't a problem. A lot is screwed up but if there's one thing that is true when it is screwed up there is no shortage of people to support it. Right now you are only one. I'm not knocking you, I think you and/or your team misunderstand how this event works.

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My team always gets t15 or better FL and has a great understanding of the event, and have talked to many people on the other t15 teams and none of them understand it. I assure you is not our understand of the game that is the issue. It is simple math.

If Team 1 wins every node that means they had more points on each node than Team 2. Therefor it is impossible for Team 2 to have more overall points. Yet that is what the scores are showing.

Maybe your team had pending deploys when the battle ended and you did not control any nodes. But your pending deploys counted toward your overall points. Most events like WD and Leader Board get locked early before the event actually ends but you still get the points. Frontline might be the same. Droid deploys stay in pending for while before being deployed.

This is gree's maths. Nothing is wrong even when a 2bil attack guy can won against 50 bil defense.

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Originally Posted by ibeweary

Maybe your team had pending deploys when the battle ended and you did not control any nodes. But your pending deploys counted toward your overall points. Most events like WD and Leader Board get locked early before the event actually ends but you still get the points. Frontline might be the same. Droid deploys stay in pending for while before being deployed.

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It is likely something like this, but it occurs for more than just the end score screenshot. I have watched our team deploy on a single node while another team deploys on that node and the third team does nothing. our deploy points go up at a rate higher than the opposing team, yet their points on the node grow faster than ours. That would mean all of our deploys are just stuck in pending while none of theirs are.

Standard gree responce so far 'ignore it and it will go away'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

It is likely something like this, but it occurs for more than just the end score screenshot. I have watched our team deploy on a single node while another team deploys on that node and the third team does nothing. our deploy points go up at a rate higher than the opposing team, yet their points on the node grow faster than ours. That would mean all of our deploys are just stuck in pending while none of theirs are.

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I fully agree with this. I've seen some kinda rules from Gree on their website or something about a special "hidden" bonus during deploys on the nodes. While this wont effect the teams overall points on the bottom left, it will effect the points going onto a node. But I don't think it has to do with deploys pending. I have seen deploys get stuck in pending, but nothing that effects end scores.

For Instance -
If only 2 teams are deploying on the node, then you have Team 1 in the lead, and Team 2 thats not. Then Team 2 only needs to do 1/2 +1 point more to have more points than the total points on the board. But, the special "hidden" modiifier going into deploys on that node. It isnt adding to either teams points, it just adding to the node itself. Meaning you still have to do 1/2 of whats on the node. You could even do more than the other team, but if its not 1/2, you wont take it.

Just my theory though. Have been looking at this for a while now. And yes, I've seen the issue in the OP's post bunches of times. Maybe Gree will shed some light on it, maybe not. Either or, I'm confident enough in my theory.
https://games.gree-support.net/hc/en...Frontline-FAQs

My theory might not be what they are talking about on here, but I think it is, and there is calculations in the background running that we cant see. I dont think the math is as cut and dry as we think it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGT Rud

I fully agree with this. I've seen some kinda rules from Gree on their website or something about a special "hidden" bonus during deploys on the nodes. While this wont effect the teams overall points on the bottom left, it will effect the points going onto a node. But I don't think it has to do with deploys pending. I have seen deploys get stuck in pending, but nothing that effects end scores.

For Instance -
If only 2 teams are deploying on the node, then you have Team 1 in the lead, and Team 2 thats not. Then Team 2 only needs to do 1/2 +1 point more to have more points than the total points on the board. But, the special "hidden" modiifier going into deploys on that node. It isnt adding to either teams points, it just adding to the node itself. Meaning you still have to do 1/2 of whats on the node. You could even do more than the other team, but if its not 1/2, you wont take it.

Just my theory though. Have been looking at this for a while now. And yes, I've seen the issue in the OP's post bunches of times. Maybe Gree will shed some light on it, maybe not. Either or, I'm confident enough in my theory.
https://games.gree-support.net/hc/en...Frontline-FAQs

My theory might not be what they are talking about on here, but I think it is, and there is calculations in the background running that we cant see. I dont think the math is as cut and dry as we think it is.

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Just read the link you posted and this was in there---- " The deploys of rivals at the same node will increase the modifier, but ultimately, the faction that has the most deploys to a node wins the node and gains all of the control points."

So this is basically saying you can have Team 1 with 10,000 gunners on a node and Team 2 has 11,000 tanks, team 2 will win the node? Did I read that right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatbodychris

Just read the link you posted and this was in there---- " The deploys of rivals at the same node will increase the modifier, but ultimately, the faction that has the most deploys to a node wins the node and gains all of the control points."

So this is basically saying you can have Team 1 with 10,000 gunners on a node and Team 2 has 11,000 tanks, team 2 will win the node? Did I read that right?

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I'm sure they mean deploy points.. The node-level modifier is a weird one though, that I hadn't spotted before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SGT Rud

I fully agree with this. I've seen some kinda rules from Gree on their website or something about a special "hidden" bonus during deploys on the nodes. While this wont effect the teams overall points on the bottom left, it will effect the points going onto a node. But I don't think it has to do with deploys pending. I have seen deploys get stuck in pending, but nothing that effects end scores.

For Instance -
If only 2 teams are deploying on the node, then you have Team 1 in the lead, and Team 2 thats not. Then Team 2 only needs to do 1/2 +1 point more to have more points than the total points on the board. But, the special "hidden" modiifier going into deploys on that node. It isnt adding to either teams points, it just adding to the node itself. Meaning you still have to do 1/2 of whats on the node. You could even do more than the other team, but if its not 1/2, you wont take it.

Just my theory though. Have been looking at this for a while now. And yes, I've seen the issue in the OP's post bunches of times. Maybe Gree will shed some light on it, maybe not. Either or, I'm confident enough in my theory.
https://games.gree-support.net/hc/en...Frontline-FAQs

My theory might not be what they are talking about on here, but I think it is, and there is calculations in the background running that we cant see. I dont think the math is as cut and dry as we think it is.

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I think it's a load-driven processing error. If I look at total deploy points and total control points scored in each of my faction's battles over the last two FLs, it's a pretty tight linear relationship, with the total deploy points = close to 2.75 x control points. However there are 2 clear outliers in very busy battles, where the relationship breaks down.

If I add in data from an additional few FLs prior to that there is more of a scatter and more outliers -- perhaps in the interim the server capacity has been beefed up.? Or alternatively they've removed any "invisible" node-level multiplier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

I think it's a load-driven processing error. If I look at total deploy points and total control points scored in each of my faction's battles over the last two FLs, it's a pretty tight linear relationship, with the total deploy points = close to 2.75 x control points. However there are 2 clear outliers in very busy battles, where the relationship breaks down.

If I add in data from an additional few FLs prior to that there is more of a scatter and more outliers -- perhaps in the interim the server capacity has been beefed up.? Or alternatively they've removed any "invisible" node-level multiplier.

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This is exactly my thoughts, and why I feel it is a glitch and gree owes us points. My assumption is that too many deploys were being sent to the server at once and the points were counted on are score but never 'made it' to the node. Ultimately in these battles I am saying an error was made there are way less than the normal ratio of deploy points to control points - AKA our deploy points counted, but not as control points. So if the points were accrued correctly we would have won the node if Gree did not screw up. This is a huge error and needs to be fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

This is exactly my thoughts, and why I feel it is a glitch and gree owes us points. My assumption is that too many deploys were being sent to the server at once and the points were counted on are score but never 'made it' to the node. Ultimately in these battles I am saying an error was made there are way less than the normal ratio of deploy points to control points - AKA our deploy points counted, but not as control points. So if the points were accrued correctly we would have won the node if Gree did not screw up. This is a huge error and needs to be fixed.

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The 2 outliers i have work both ways... one with too many total control points, and one with too few control points. I'll bung a couple of charts up tomorrow if I have time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

The 2 outliers i have work both ways... one with too many total control points, and one with too few control points. I'll bung a couple of charts up tomorrow if I have time.

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All of the examples I have there have been too many deploy points for the amount of control points rewarded... just further pointing me towards my thought that we are deploying troops and the server can not keep up with them and is not counting all of our deploys on the node.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

All of the examples I have there have been too many deploy points for the amount of control points rewarded... just further pointing me towards my thought that we are deploying troops and the server can not keep up with them and is not counting all of our deploys on the node.

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It's possible that overawarding of points may not leap out as mucH!

The only way you are making sense is if each of the teams has deploy points on ONLY ONE node. If team 1 scores 300k deploy points on one node and team 2 scores 270k on a separate node then highest deploy points are highest control points. However, that is not usually the case. Generally team 1 deploys over several nodes as does team 2.

If you lose a node your team still gets your own deploy points. If you win a node, you get your teams deploy points PLUS the points deployed by the other team (s). Thus your teams points plus that deployed by other team = control points.

What you are missing is that BOTH TEAMS get the deploy points that are calculated into control points. The deploy points don't get subtracted from the team who lost the node.

Team 1 deploys 300k. Team 2 deploys 270k. Say over two nodes. But team 1 tried to steal (or had players who couldn't follow directions) a node and deployed 20k on the node team 2 eventually won. Team 1 still gets 300k deploy points but only 280 count for control points. Team 2 gets 270k deploy points but 290 count for control points. Thus team 2 is winning the war with fewer deploys.

See?

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Originally Posted by Bravo Zulu

The only way you are making sense is if each of the teams has deploy points on ONLY ONE node. If team 1 scores 300k deploy points on one node and team 2 scores 270k on a separate node then highest deploy points are highest control points. However, that is not usually the case. Generally team 1 deploys over several nodes as does team 2.

If you lose a node your team still gets your own deploy points. If you win a node, you get your teams deploy points PLUS the points deployed by the other team (s). Thus your teams points plus that deployed by other team = control points.

What you are missing is that BOTH TEAMS get the deploy points that are calculated into control points. The deploy points don't get subtracted from the team who lost the node.

Team 1 deploys 300k. Team 2 deploys 270k. Say over two nodes. But team 1 tried to steal (or had players who couldn't follow directions) a node and deployed 20k on the node team 2 eventually won. Team 1 still gets 300k deploy points but only 280 count for control points. Team 2 gets 270k deploy points but 290 count for control points. Thus team 2 is winning the war with fewer deploys.

See?

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Well that misses out the deploy multiplier, but nonetheless, the original scenario had 1 team deploying more, but not winning a single node. Your scenario has two teams each winning a node each, but the team deploying less winning overall... completely different scenario, and obviously feasible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Well that misses out the deploy multiplier, but nonetheless, the original scenario had 1 team deploying more, but not winning a single node. Your scenario has two teams each winning a node each, but the team deploying less winning overall... completely different scenario, and obviously feasible.

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Yes that is not the scenario I described at all.

Attachment 7336

Does this look like what you're talking about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loser

Attachment 7336

Does this look like what you're talking about?

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Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

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The fact is it's not possible. Many argue the fact and it just makes me think less of their intelligence. Lol. Math doesn't lie.

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Originally Posted by Tony81

The fact is it's not possible. Many argue the fact and it just makes me think less of their intelligence. Lol. Math doesn't lie.

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Thats why I created the thread my friend. I see it all too often, and it usually hurts my team a couple times per event. I want to stop wasting gold, and think we deserve to be refunded for these fights where we lost but should have won according to the math.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andy2

Exactly, if Team in 2nd place had more deploy points, how is it physically possible for team in 1st to have won every single node? I have many like that as well.

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Theres 200m of control points missing from that pic

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Originally Posted by andy2

Yes that is not the scenario I described at all.

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Yeah- it could be. In the pic did you guys notice team 3? How many points they scored? Those points obviously went to the winning team. Remember in my post how I said whoever controls the node in the end wins those deploy points as controls points? And the splash screen still shows team 3 with their own deploy points because both them and the winner of the node get them. They don't show as deploy points under the winner- just as control. If you add team 3s points to the winners, they won with control points.

Control points are how you win in frontline. Not deploys. If it were just deploys there would be no such thing as control points.

But go ahead and keep fighting it. You will keep losing not because Gree rigged it- but because you fail to understand and strategize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bravo Zulu

Yeah- it could be. In the pic did you guys notice team 3? How many points they scored? Those points obviously went to the winning team. Remember in my post how I said whoever controls the node in the end wins those deploy points as controls points? And the splash screen still shows team 3 with their own deploy points because both them and the winner of the node get them. They don't show as deploy points under the winner- just as control. If you add team 3s points to the winners, they won with control points. Ozy is correct, if you add up all of the deploy points and calculate how many control points should have been generated on all of the nodes combined that picture is roughly 150m+ short.

Control points are how you win in frontline. Not deploys. If it were just deploys there would be no such thing as control points.

But go ahead and keep fighting it. You will keep losing not because Gree rigged it- but because you fail to understand and strategize.

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Oh lord, I get how deploy points and control points work. The point is that you get the control points by having more deploy points on a node than any other team. And if team2 has more total deploy points in total, how can team1 have had more deploy points on every single node - needed in order to win all of the control points? It isn't possible. Also Ozy is correct, if you calculate how many control points should be awarded, based on the number of deploy points there is at least 150m points missing.

Lastly, just so you are clear... I am not arguing that based on the points awarded in that screenshot that the team that won should not have. I am arguing that they should not have won all of the control points, because based on the deploy point totals they could not have won every single node.