A response to your concerns regarding cheaters and taking a step forward together

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinazueli

The difference between two dictionaries? It's still fact. An indisputable fact: the scientific data we've gathered through repeatable experiments (aka playing the game) does not support the premise that these guilds are legitimate. It's "highly improbable" which where I work means just about impossible. Close enough to certainty for engineering.

---

Again....... you see a phenomenon that makes you curious because it stands out from the norm. So you (us) are eager to know why it's different, which is human nature.
If it was a toy, you could take it apart and figure out everything by seeing the inside and how they work.

But it's a 60 member guild which you are an outsider to. You don't have access to the logs of this guild, their present and past players since the date of creation.
If you would, you could do like with the toy.

So, you rely on your second best tool: Argumenting, believing and you come up with a theory. Very plausible and convincing, but a theory nevertheless.
Back when eearth was flat, there were people who would put their hand in fire that that's how it was.Until some smart man, came up with a theory....... and attention....... he went on to prove it and the theory became a fact and a proven truth.

What you have here regarding 60 member guilds, is a theory that you and many others are ready to put the hand on fire but a theory...... which is not yet proven.
Despite what you are trying to sell, your arguments and number crunching and observation are not data adn waaaay far from Gree logs of the guild donations. Your theory and experiment at best can be called a speculation, not scientific (which you keep calling it, but i doubt exchanging opinions in forum among those who believe the same is any sot of science)

Now, if we accept a theory without proof -------60 member guild got there by hacking
Why don't accept another theory without proof --------- top box event guy cheats?

I don't care which theory you decide to beleive, like and accept, but either they are both valid even if not proven or they are both speculation because not proven.
That's wha scientific and data means, if you think yourself as one

Look. I'll break this down. Again.

Data : there exist 60 member guilds.
Data : these guilds are not extremely high ranked.
Data : the bonuses required to unlock 60 member guilds would cost orders of magnitude more money than that required to rank top10.
Data : these guilds have had 60 members for a very long time.
Data : the speed at which they unlocked those members is above two standard deviations faster than the top10 guilds.
Data : there exist screenshots of single players donating billions of gold in a matter of hours into these guilds.
Data : none of the players in these guilds has extremely high stats.
Data : there exist several members in these guilds who have slightly above average stats
Data : these same members also possess a statistically impossible number of honor units
Data : there exist screenshots of these guilds vaults with all bonuses unlocked and hundreds of millions of gold lying unspent
Data : there exist screenshots of members of these guilds bragging about hacking gold.

Taken collectively, along with that crazy common sense, there is a well substantiated explanation that correlates all of these data points. If it looks like a duck...

Now, at the risk of returning your ad hominem arguments, I'd like to put forth my own theory : are you a member of one of these guilds? Because you seem to be stuck on this "proof" argument. Even for capital murder, we only look for "beyond a shadow of a doubt". Which is what this is, regardless of how much you may not like it. Sorry.

Go look up what a "theory" means in the scientific community. It's not "a guess without any proof". I actually defined it verbatim earlier in this post.

I say again, the jury has returned. It's not even a question: these guilds are guilty. The only question that remains is sentencing. Which most of us feel should be of the capital variety.

As for the box events, I've personally seen the iTunes receipts(in the past, not this one.). That may not sway everyone, but it's good enough for me.

Klevito , you seem to be on the side of these 60 member guilds from your point it's acceptable to have these guilds yet if we look at FUN top guild in All wars and only now 58 members! Given that The1nONLY had a starting vault of 110 million, other were not even close to this amount so a large injection to get them above everyone else, the only other guild that comes close would be the RK before disbanding , but after the first couple of wars when most of us could only afford 45-50 members ( and yes I was in top 10 several times) these guild showed up with 60 members costing Billions...just incase Billions ! Not Millions....you do the maths on this and say its Legit? Why would someone spend literally thousands(again Thousands) of real dollars to let some random person in their Guild! Why not just buy gems with the Thousands of real dollars and get top spot.....answer inserted here.... I would not pay my real life hard earned money to have someone else take a spot if I was not Gaurenteed a top 3 position if not No#1 spot...and as for your dictionary you might want to look up wasting ? Throw real money for someone else to join and still get topp 100 ....don't think so.
Hence Shins sceptic ism and mine on these so called Legit Guilds.
But I will float this.....show me proof of a 60 member guild and I will show you a Hacker...simple as...I have photo proof do you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinazueli

Now, at the risk of returning your ad hominem arguments, I'd like to put forth my own theory : are you a member of one of these guilds? Because you seem to be stuck on this "proof" argument. Even for capital murder, we only look for "beyond a shadow of a doubt".
As for the box events, I've personally seen the iTunes receipts(in the past, not this one.). That may not sway everyone, but it's good enough for me.

---

Some nails, take one hit on the head to go in. Some need several hits repeatedly on the same spot, with the same movement..
That's how this is becoming.

I point west and show you a tree, and you turn in circles few times and end up looking above, surprised thinking "what is this dude smoking. A tree in the sky?
I call you and keep pointing west. "Hey Shin, there, there....The tree" and you turn left right, left, right a couple of times and look inside your pocket....... "Still no tree"

For the third (or fourth) time.....
"Shin.....and Ratma...... I am not asking for proof about 60 member guilds.
I am not asking or disputing the legitimacy of the #1 box player.
I am simply saying that it's biased and not correct when one asks for proof to a speculation of someone on one issue, but is happy to speculate without proof on another issue.

Do you see.... the tree yet, guys?

:D

Klevito I have pictures of your tree you speak of which point to blatant miss use of another system to override the games normal parameters ! Or if you wish to look for yourself at the tree or one similar , you can always Google Hacks and Cheats like others have done and abused the system to gain advantage over normal players.
Hence the Billions donated by a simple tap of a key !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by klevito

Some nails, take one hit on the head to go in. Some need several hits repeatedly on the same spot, with the same movement..
That's how this is becoming.

I point west and show you a tree, and you turn in circles few times and end up looking above, surprised thinking "what is this dude smoking. A tree in the sky?
I call you and keep pointing west. "Hey Shin, there, there....The tree" and you turn left right, left, right a couple of times and look inside your pocket....... "Still no tree"

For the third (or fourth) time.....
"Shin.....and Ratma...... I am not asking for proof about 60 member guilds.
I am not asking or disputing the legitimacy of the #1 box player.
I am simply saying that it's biased and not correct when one asks for proof to a speculation of someone on one issue, but is happy to speculate without proof on another issue.

Do you see.... the tree yet, guys?

:D

---

Look. We aren't asking for proof of their legitimacy. We're absolutely certain it doesn't exist. But lets just agree to disagree.

Gree's new solution to cheaters... preventing them (and everyone else) from accessing the game.

And just to put the icing on the cake, we are now battling another 60 member guild, while we struggle to find a way to maximize our wins for the stupid guild quest. They have 12 more members than us... Which pretty much means we are screwed.

Thanks Gree. We were allowed to lose 3 wars over the entire weekend and still get the prize, and we will have lost 2 to 60 member guilds in ~45 minutes. Really appreciate that anti-cheating work you guys are doing. It's awesome.

And of course they both have level 10 walls.

These guilds are having a detrimental affect on fair playing and paying guilds every SECOND you continue to fail to Do Your Job. Ban them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a guild with only 44 members trying our best to save money for bonuses, we are more than surprised about the existence of 60 member guilds.

Can we ask Gree to publish a list of those guilds, for all to see?

I would not comment on some of the philosophical arguments, that frankly is best ignored.
This is not a legal court requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt. There seems to be more than sufficient evidence to suggest, on the balance of probability, that such 60 member guilds require deep scrutiny.

Gree owes it to every guild that has gem players, to provide reasonable and acceptable assurance that these guilds have been audited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crusader Shout

As a guild with only 44 members trying our best to save money for bonuses, we are more than surprised about the existence of 60 member guilds.

Can we ask Gree to publish a list of those guilds, for all to see?

I would not comment on some of the philosophical arguments, that frankly is best ignored.
This is not a legal court requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt. There seems to be more than sufficient evidence to suggest, on the balance of probability, that such 60 member guilds require deep scrutiny.

Gree owes it to every guild that has gem players, to provide reasonable and acceptable assurance that these guilds have been audited.

---

F that. They owe it to every single guild in the game. But the rest I agree with.

This guild quest almost seems like it is designed benefit cheater guilds. They may not be able to put up CP to score top 3/10/25 prizes, but 60 members gives them a huge advantage over many legit medium-strength guilds.

But then I guess the legit guilds have to out-gem them if they want win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by E-I

But then I guess the legit guilds have to out-gem them if they want win.

---

And, you nailed it. The numero uno reason why 60 member Guilds are not being dealt with. Also, because there are too many legit spenders with deep pockets and pride issues to really hit GREE where it hurts if they all could agree to it.

(cough)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonny0284

And, you nailed it. The numero uno reason why 60 member Guilds are not being dealt with. Also, because there are too many legit spenders with deep pockets and pride issues to really hit GREE where it hurts if they all could agree to it.

(cough)

---

Yes! Many Hacker's guilds on top 100 positions nowadays...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nemesiakis

This more than clear that GREE will not do anything to solve the obvious problems of hackers.
All players see daily powers and achievements impossible for their level. In the top chests events get more than 200 awards, or guilds whole earning a million points in each battle. From all this I can provide screenshots if I may, although I know that you will permit your shame because it would air.
If we can see every day ... it is clear that GREE is either blind or is maimed.
Propose any of these alternatives:
* 1.-Create a thread to publicly claim hackers.
* 2.-Pass the hack everyone so we can all use.
* 3.-Playing tetris, much more serious than this.
It is clear that this message is for users of this forum because I doubt that GREE has an interest.

Pd: Sorry for my bad English, I'm still studying ...

---

I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of money some players spend on this game if you don't think a million points is achievable in a single battle.

It's rather difficult to understand what you're saying... However, It seems to me that your images are solid evidence that you can't see he's joking. At least, I don't see anything else other than someone dreaming about having a trick to get free gems. He spend 1200+ gems and got a reward.. where's the smoking gun ?