[Updated] Official 11+ Movement Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 09cobaltss

Buster what better rewards would you get from top 25 than top 100? That is the whole point. And for someone who is retired from the game you still seem to care an awful lot about what happens

---

I'm retired from spending. I still play casually, collect money, buy elemental bonuses for a guild full of non-active people who don't bother me on line, or whine because they didn't get good rewards from war because they're level 20 and don't know any better. Also, someone has to keep the forums in check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Pale Rider

Not up to your usual reasoning standards. The analogy with a raise is terrible. If you told your workers whoever works the hardest this month gets a raise -- thats analogous. What we have now is a hope that people will work harder even though their pay gets worse every month and you go further and say, you shouldn't complain about it if you don't work harder first. Remind me never to work for you.

Inherent in a thread posted by a game admin or developer suggesting new content ideas is the suggestion that one or more might be implemented.

Agree the expansion is a black hole in terms of details.

---

How is my job analogy terrible? What the 11+ is asking for is EXACTLY like asking for a raise before doing the work. You want them to pony up better rewards before spending money on it. Sol Invictus's signature shows exactly that. "No more gems until War rewards are worth it" = no extra work until I get a raise that I feel warrants extra work. You want the raise before you do extra.

The point is, there isn't a big vast group fighting for Top 10. Those who are in the running for it every war are pretty well known by the first half of day 1. Everyone else craps out, and quits playing. If you had more people fighting for top 10, you'd have a solid leg to stand on in the fight to say "we all spend money and get crap rewards." But that isn't the case. Usually its 11 or 12 guilds fighting for top 10. Those extra 2 who don't get the rewards are the only ones who should be complaining. The ones that give up and crap out... yeah, you REALLY deserve better rewards for deciding top 10 is out of reach, but you can now coast to Top 25 and deserve something for it.

Yeah, those are the people who decides "this is too hard, I don't want to do any extra work, but I still want a raise" while my other staff are increasing sales and selling our featured product like its going out of style. I reward the people who do a good job. They get the schedule they want, the sections they want, the closing shifts. Those who rise and go above and beyond and do the things I ask without me even having to ask. They do the work and get the rewards. And I continue to reward them. The people that give up mid-month/contest? They don't get anything except being one step closer to the chopping block. And I never said anything about the pay getting worse. Maybe you're in a job where you get paid less and less for the same work, but mine sure isn't.

You sir are the one who has the bad analogy.

Also, ASSUMING that just because there is a poll in a random thread suggesting new ideas by a developer or mod means that there will be said "winner" implemented, is ASSUMING. The poll was created as a way to consolidate the suggestions into the more popular, and letting people vote on which one was most important to them. If the poll included "1000 free gems every month" and that was the winner, would you still expect them to include it? I know you have better reasoning skills than to assume it was a guaranteed implementation of one or more items. It was a wishing thread at best.

Your analogy is backwards, homie. Also, we don't need an analogy, all we need is reality.

As to your analogy, it would be accurate to say that GREE expects payment before doing the work. We would be refusing to pay until something of value is provided. You don't get paid on Monday. You get paid on Friday.

We are the employer. GREE is the employee. Check yourself, silly.



But we don't need an analogy. The reality is that GREE is in the business of selling games and we are in the business of buying them. Don't give me this load of crap about us not wanting to work for it, as if GREE is doing us some kind of favor by making the top 10 rewards good and any other reward bad.

You're such an experienced businessman, you oughta know how free enterprise works.

It ain't "you gotta prove you're good enough to earn the product I want to sell."

What a dumb analogy. Come on.
Reality is that market forces send signals to businesses on what to do and what not to do.

We send a signal saying "We're OK paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and GREE will keep them coming.

We send a signal saying "We are not paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and, if they're smart, they'll stop doing that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by busteroaf

I'm retired from spending. I still play casually, collect money, buy elemental bonuses for a guild full of non-active people who don't bother me on line, or whine because they didn't get good rewards from war because they're level 20 and don't know any better. Also, someone has to keep the forums in check.



How is my job analogy terrible? What the 11+ is asking for is EXACTLY like asking for a raise before doing the work. You want them to pony up better rewards before spending money on it. Sol Invictus's signature shows exactly that. "No more gems until War rewards are worth it" = no extra work until I get a raise that I feel warrants extra work. You want the raise before you do extra.

The point is, there isn't a big vast group fighting for Top 10. Those who are in the running for it every war are pretty well known by the first half of day 1. Everyone else craps out, and quits playing. If you had more people fighting for top 10, you'd have a solid leg to stand on in the fight to say "we all spend money and get crap rewards." But that isn't the case. Usually its 11 or 12 guilds fighting for top 10. Those extra 2 who don't get the rewards are the only ones who should be complaining. The ones that give up and crap out... yeah, you REALLY deserve better rewards for deciding top 10 is out of reach, but you can now coast to Top 25 and deserve something for it.

Yeah, those are the people who decides "this is too hard, I don't want to do any extra work, but I still want a raise" while my other staff are increasing sales and selling our featured product like its going out of style. I reward the people who do a good job. They get the schedule they want, the sections they want, the closing shifts. Those who rise and go above and beyond and do the things I ask without me even having to ask. They do the work and get the rewards. And I continue to reward them. The people that give up mid-month/contest? They don't get anything except being one step closer to the chopping block. And I never said anything about the pay getting worse. Maybe you're in a job where you get paid less and less for the same work, but mine sure isn't.

You sir are the one who has the bad analogy.

Also, ASSUMING that just because there is a poll in a random thread suggesting new ideas by a developer or mod means that there will be said "winner" implemented, is ASSUMING. The poll was created as a way to consolidate the suggestions into the more popular, and letting people vote on which one was most important to them. If the poll included "1000 free gems every month" and that was the winner, would you still expect them to include it? I know you have better reasoning skills than to assume it was a guaranteed implementation of one or more items. It was a wishing thread at best.

---

All your points are true except one thing: if those guilds spend more for these rewards, GREE will not change them. In real life, yes, you do woek and get rewarded. But in the game, it may not make a difference regardless. May as well save your money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Your analogy is backwards, homie. Also, we don't need an analogy, all we need is reality.

As to your analogy, it would be accurate to say that GREE expects payment before doing the work. We would be refusing to pay until something of value is provided. You don't get paid on Monday. You get paid on Friday.

We are the employer. GREE is the employee. Check yourself, silly.

...

Reality is that market forces send signals to businesses on what to do and what not to do.

We send a signal saying "We're OK paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and GREE will keep them coming.

We send a signal saying "We are not paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and, if they're smart, they'll stop doing that.

---

No, MY analogy is not backwards. You want something BEFORE doing anything for it. As to Gree being the employee and us being the employer. Well, they sure do seem to be the ones running the show, so they have the ability to say "We want a raise before putting out the better rewards." You know, more people actually spending money, and they'd make it worthwhile. If I can free energy my way to 2nd tier rewards, why wouldn't I? Why would I pay money when I can get it for free? The inmates are clearly running the asylum in this case. You expect Gree to just say "hey, lets give away all these great rewards and then they'll come running, and hopefully pay. Clearly, you're being horrible bosses and continuing to let your employees get away with whatever they want.

Blah blah... to your final statements:

Of the last 2 examples, you're doing the first. Maybe not YOU specifically, you big bad non-gem buying trailblazer you... but your 11+ movement can't seem to get it through their heads to do the second as a whole, so you WILL CONTINUE to get EB+ as rewards, because you don't have the balls to make a statement with your wallets. All you have now is your mouths. And I'm not hearing a whole lot being done. Your market forces are non-existent.

Yes, the whole "spend more, get more" idea is a grand hope of mine, and mine alone apparently, but things we know so far: people aren't STOPPING spending, and they haven't changed anything, so who is to know if it will work either way? Seriously try to gather people to NOT spend. Make yourselves heard. What is the worst that can happen? A few people don't get their war epics, and you'll see if all those other magic "big spenders" in the top 100 that spend SOOOO much money (sarcasm), will actually step up to replace you in gems spent, points, etc. You'll figure out a lot more about the game and its players by nutting up and NOT spending for a war or two that just talking about wanting change. Am I wrong?

http://i.minus.com/iLBs9uhnBZAoe.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by busteroaf

No, MY analogy is not backwards. You want something BEFORE doing anything for it.

---

Guilds get rewards after war. Not before.

You are wrong. I am right.
You're grasping at straws. Stop shilling for GREE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slayer 1

* HC only to have declare ability. (GM's will be very upset)

---

Let's be fair here, it's pretty clear he means that only officers, HC and up, should be able to declare. Which is a completely valid request.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by infliction

You're putting the power in the leecher's hand, which is worse than putting it in the hands of the GM. At the very least, the GM has no personal profit motivation to deny rewards. If anything, it hurts him, because he'll lose valuable contributing members if he denies them their reward. The leecher, on the other hand, has everything to gain by leeching.

The difference between account trade scamming is that the person doing the scamming gets rewarded with a better account. What does the GM gain if he denies a reward? I get that there will still be a small number of GMs that abuse the power, but it'll be way better than leaving the power in the hands of leechers. For anyone who argues for leechers, I can only imagine why...

---

Wow.. I read this and almost fell off my chair... Sensible words and exactly why this was on the list.

However in your following post you seem to think that I and other who support are willing to do nothing... This is certainly not the case. We simply refuse to take a course of action that we feel unnecessary.... Or that would be detremental to a company who's product we use constantly...

Clearly you read my 2nd post as you refer to snippets but you seem to misunderstand the lovely bits I put in capitals just to ensure that you were able to comprehend without having to overly concern yourself with content... (Just assuming from the way you approach the game that this would be for the best for you to understand)

I made it pretty clear that this was at least going to remain respectable and offer GREE a descent and fair way to listen to its customers ideas and by our justified change of ratings a small gesture simply to show just how many unhappy long term spenders feel strongly enough as GREE customers to do thier little part. Of course we are aware that what follows is down to GREE themselves. They could EASILY make many people happy and get some spending again and others spending more on their product by introducing some small changes to the current set up in what is one of their most popular revenue streams..

Sales through Services provided is clearly something that GREE need to give some focus, nobody doubts that but your blind assumption that companies (any company) don't want to provide the best overall product available making their customers happy and generating further revenue for doing that is laughable. I've worked at a high level of business through a variety of channels in a multinational corporation for a long time. One thing always rings true...

We want to offer the best product on the market in our chosen area.
We want our customers to be happy with the service and/ or products we provide and share within thier circles
We want to develop a well known trusted brand with a positive reputation..
We want to make as much money as possible from said product..

It's a tried and tested method that's worked since the development of free markets.

Why anyone would think gree to be any different is beyond me! I'm glad many of you are simply able to laugh these jokers trying to put a negative spin on what we're doing.

I mean flick through a few posts... It'll never work and you're dumb for trying or supporting... but this would be good...
Or nobody will ever listen unless you resort to completely ruining the game or boycotting the revenue reducing justification for further spending on said revenue stream... But if it does work... I'd like to see it done this way...

We'll stick to our morals and we will stick together and hopefully soon enough GREE will support those of us here for the right reasons... I'm still trying to make contact at a reasonable level so let's not give up hope guys! I'll feedback as and when I get anything of relevance :) for now just ignore the idiots. Stick to what we planned & let's see what happens from there...

Thanks,

Mikie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZERO_07

Increase the chance of getting an Epic from chests. 1% is not acceptable.

---

lol. if you increase it any higher too many ppl will start getting epics. the game is already flooded with epics.whats the point of having an epic if everyone has epics? no advantage.

Everyone should add some comedy to there posts so it is fun to read.

Very well put Mikie. It's seems some people think the only thing we are doing is down rating in play store and then whining on the forum. This is by no means the case. All of us that play this game want the same basic things to be added. We all love the game and would like to see it last longer and continue to improve. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 09cobaltss

Very well put Mikie. It's seems some people think the only thing we are doing is down rating in play store and then whining on the forum. This is by no means the case. All of us that play this game want the same basic things to be added. We all love the game and would like to see it last longer and continue to improve. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that

---

For the record then, because I stand with you and I've sided with both ya'll and the other guy, even though he did deride me...but I'm not sure what exactly ya'll are doing other than downrating and coming to the forums? Mikie, though I support him in Majestic and respect his leadership in that last war...has said he isn't supporting boycotting or not spending, so what else is there?

Help me and the others understand. I'm supporting the overall goals and the movement, but I'm the type that thinks beating your chest is pointless without meaningful action, and I just don't see an occasional 1-star buried amidst a sea of good reviews (at most recent check) doing much good.

Case in point; Mikie still trying to make contact with someone at a level able to do anything. I'd love if it he made contact with someone who is willing to speak for the company, but as someone whose watched this happen in a few other cell games I became overly invested in...it's not going to happen. I've seen only ONE company that brought out a community relations person to speak ongoing with the community as a result.

What a waste, the idea sounds good about the "movement" but all here on the forum played the game long enough to know that greed doesn't care what you are demanding. Also, people will still buy gems so no point in starting this. Eh id you guys succeed then that would be awesome but 10 times out of 10 greed won't change anything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a MenTaL CaSe

Id love to see top 100 guilds use free energy only. From what I hear a line chat has already been started gms of all top 99 guilds talk it out.

---

Just editted it due to information which i wasnt aware off before i retired as 2nd in command.

Conquering Knights?
Master Shake was one of the first people I brought into the room, I thought.

If your GM is not in there, it's not because s/he wasn't invited or isn't welcome. I didn't invite GMs. I just found anyone I could get a hold of from each guild. Could be a GM. Could be a Commander. I have no idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Conquering Knights?
Master Shake was one of the first people I brought into the room, I thought.

If your GM is not in there, it's not because s/he wasn't invited or isn't welcome. I didn't invite GMs. I just found anyone I could get a hold of from each guild. Could be a GM. Could be a Commander. I have no idea.

---

The information didnt cross my attention. I was about to edit topic. Cheers :)