Whenever any of these 'demands' are met, I'll happily eat crow and admit I was wrong/Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pale Rider
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Whenever any of these 'demands' are met, I'll happily eat crow and admit I was wrong/Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pale Rider
Eljay is correct; stripping exists so basic fire may as well be an epic+. What do ppl even use new armors for?
...which is an indication of a poorly written 'demand'. Nothing is 'clear' - the statement was, " HC only to have declare ability."
If you're going to run a protest movement - get your demands straight and crystal clear without inference.
...not that it matters anyhow.
I addressed that once by providing about 30 links to threads from every other Gree game dating back up to a few years where ppl were demanding officer only declares, kicking during wars etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer 1
Gree has a model & does not give a flying flip if the players don't like it.
oh, be nice. This is a Rockwell classic painted in Troy NY. Leave the American Classics alone.
I think your movement - though misguided and futile - is a noble one. I'll leave your thread alone.
At least it has gotten more notice from gree than the others threads asking. So maybe it's a step in the right direction for both player and business.
It's a small thing really it's pretty clear what it meant. HC+ but you're right! How observant of you... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer 1
I cant change now as Elita trolled and stole my post :D *Waves fist*
And lets see if we get anywhere with Elita's response before you shoot us down. We're well aware that not everything on the list may be doable. But as i've said time and time again. WE are the customers and there's no reason we can't ask! At very least we deserve some understanding on GREE's position and what can / cant be done. So we know what we MUST live with and what they can change. Ofc time to implement is also a factor...
I'm not going to bother explaining again that it's in their interests to keep customers happy. See prev posts.
Thanks for the support everyone! I'm waiting eagerly for Elita's response now..
Mike
The delusional optimism is physically painful to read. Slayer 1 is the only thing anchoring my sanity right now.
Then clearly you have no interest in this thread, Instead go play lets smack talk GREE elsewhere.
Your pessimism is painful to the other 400+ people who support what we're trying to do!
thanks!
I'm beginning to think Skittle Stomper is Eunuchorn's 4th account. If this is the case, then use the past as another indicator that we don't want or need you here. Go away now child.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikieblue
If this is not the case, then still go away.
They banned his 2nd account too right? The ghost?
Yep. Sure looks like it. Attachment 5741Quote:
Originally Posted by King juju
Thank you for pointing out the stat difference, busteroaf. You are correct. It would make little sense to have a technically better reward for 11th place than 10th place. My reasoning was this...Northerner is an old Epic that is now fuseable. If you can spend 25k gold and get it, why shouldn't you be able to get it from war. I know you can't get a + from fusion.
That's all. Could've picked Forgestone+ or Beastmaster+. Doesn't matter. But 11-25 should get an old +.
A lot of people have brought up your objection about who should and shouldn't get what because they aren't putting in a commensurate amount of money or effort into it. I share this belief. Rewards should be commensurate with ranking, which is a result of effort.
GREE controls what armor stats are, so they ought to be a lot more precise and flexible when it comes to dishing out rewards. As long as it makes sense, I'm good with that.
BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS TO 11-50 IF WAR REWARDS IMPROVE
Players from lesser guilds will filter into the ranks of the top 100, pushing out the lower-performing players of those guilds.
Overall scoring capability of 11-100 guilds increases as participation and gemspending-per-guild increases.
Competition for 11-25 increases (which naturally increases competition for that #10 spot.).
What this means is, your objections about someone not spending enough or being active enough while still getting rewards "they didn't deserve because people gambled on chests and lost" will be nullified. There will not be a top 50 guild in existence that didn't get there without spending good money and without a lot of effort.
http://i.minus.com/ijGyjAHCOlQ3s.jpg
If war rewards improve. IF war rewards improve, THEN 11-50 will spend more. That is a mighty big if. Where is the proof to back up your claims? You're still stuck with the idea that IF the rewards are better, the it is FACT that more people will magically start spending and make it worthwhile. Your claim is just as hypothetical as mine to say they won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
You still sound an awful lot like saying if you give me a raise, then I'll do more work... doesn't it? Can you GUARANTEE that those people waiting in 11-50 are just honestly chomping at the bit to increase their spending to get an old epic? Can you guarantee that those person that is unproved and asking for a raise is going to do the work?
Please, show me the proof that those guilds will actually spend, and I'll concede.
I just honestly do not believe that there are that many players that will filter into the top 100 as you've stated... to replace all those lower performing players, when many of them simply do it for free? Sure, you may have some increase, but I do not feel it will be across the whole top 100 like you seem to believe. Its too large of a group to guarantee a spending increase for. At best, maybe the Top 25. Top 50 is a stretch at best. Top 100? Huge stretch.
Of course I could be totally wrong. But since we already have Top 10 guilds with the mindset of "lets not spend anything else for a few extra boosts, no sense in wasting money" I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Top 100 don't have the same mindset as well.
Agreed Imo Top 25 is where it should stop being an Epic reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
+1 to MajesticQuote:
Originally Posted by smujica93
Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
The proof is that I sent messages to people from dozens of guilds asking them if they were fed up with bad war rewards and all of them except one or two said that they were. Many, like Azure Dragon Nexus, have said that they don't spend gems at all anymore.
That is how this whole thing started. The proof is the existence of this movement.
The proof is in all the people in my guild who are tired of holding back on gemspending because war rewards aren't worth it.
The proof is in all the people in many of the guilds that you used to see in the top 50 or top 100, but now you never see them above 150.
The proof is that people will do what you and other naysayers have so condescendingly suggested, which is to recruit better, because they want those rewards. I've done a lot of recruiting, and it's not easy. If you're a guild that can reach out to an active player from a #200+ guild and say "Come with us, we can get you this 11-100 prize." then it's gonna be a lot easier to convince that person to join up.
The proof is that the same exact effect takes place in top 10 guilds.
To further illustrate my point, here is an example based on my own guild:
http://i.minus.com/iwrRD8jFdYup6.jpg
This only makes sense.
Scoring will increase because people WANT to spend gems on better rewards.
GREE is simply not giving people an incentive to spend.
Give incentive.
People will spend.
Points will increase.
Competition will increase.
People will spend more to keep up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
Exactly. People will spend if they think there is a good chance they can get something "worthwhile" to them. Of course "worthwhile" varies from person to person, but there's no reason to think that guilds 26-100 wouldn't slug it out just like the top 25 if there was something more attractive in the 26-30 spot. Hell, moontide+, tectonic+, blazeborne+, then slide down to regular epics in the 31-35 spots. Those armors are extremely valuable to guilds in those areas of the ranking and would produce gem spending in order to get them. At this point with specter, komodo, runic, etc. that giving out these lower tier epics and plusses will hardly make a ripple in the upper echelon of guilds and their spending habits as they already have these armors sitting in their closet collecting dust.
Proof is in you sending messages? In the existence in the movement? And here I just thought it was about getting better rewards. Its actually about giving them more money. You're so sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
"Are you fed up?" YEAH.
"Do you want better rewards?" YEAH!
"Are you gonna spend more now?" Well maybe... depends on what the other guilds around me spend, what the rewards are, what the wife says I can spend... so maybe. Do we know what the rewards are yet?
No offense, but using 12k as your example cutoff is laughable. People get that while sitting on the couch on an easy gem session in one battle. Hell, people can do that in a matter of about 10 minutes. Some have gotten that much in less than 6 minutes before. People below 12k, just aren't trying. Its not for lack of prizes, its that they're just that lazy.
Also, your 25% increase? That is called having a minimum and cutting the people who don't meet it, and replacing them with people who do. That is not PROVING any increase in gem spending. I could get 12k just from logging into 10-12 average wars, and dropping full energy and not spending a cent. Increased activity =/= increased spending. For some it does, but not all. Especially not your example.
Also Sol,
Your math is wrong. If those bottom 17 (Damn you have a lot of leechers you call guild members) all scored the 12k you talk about, that magic 204k or 25% increase as you call it, you would actually only be gaining 111202. Yes, I did the math. Your original bottom 17 did 92798 in scoring. If you are talking about actually only ADDING 12k to each of their scores, then sure, you'd have a 204k increase. But, in your image, you said "REPLACED." That means, they, and all their original points, are gone. Replaced with people who scored 12k minimum.
So in reality, your math is actually 794,318 + 111,202 = 905,520. Which, if you do the math... wait, I did it for you... is actually only a 13.999% increase. So you're kinda right. If you replaced your bottom feeders with people who are able to log in a few times each day and actually earn points, you might get an extra 111k in points, or a 14% (yes, I'm rounding now) increase in your points. You were still able to show proof of increase in points. Good for you.
Still not showing me proof of increased GEM spending though, since 12k is nothing.
You're right.
But 12k is the minimum for this EXAMPLE because I went with the low figure in order to be conservative.
Surely, people would score more than 12k in this EXAMPLE. Maybe the replacements for the bottom scorers would post an average of 20k each. The points I used are speculation, but you can apply this EXAMPLE to any guild from 11-100 and it would still hold true, more or less.
The main point is the same. And it's a solid point. Every objection you make is a logical fallacy.
Hey, do we need to get a room to ourselves so I can educate you without hogging up this thread? I feel bad.
You said it yourself. The points you use are speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
You used a low figure in order to be conservative? You used your own guild. Rank 65, replacing over 40% of the people in it, and you think that is low and conservative? It doesn't look good for those 66 and down now either. Do you see why I'm skeptical of your example, and why it I don't think it would hold true... more or less?
Are you meaning to say, that people outside of the top 100, will replace 40% of the people in 11-100 rank guilds, and magically increase spending? Do you not think that many of those people being replaced would simply find slightly lower ranked guilds, or that some of the main spenders would not just move to higher ranked guilds?
Again, you're reaching too far in your examples. Filter into the Top 25 and see an increase, maybe, but 50/100 is a real stretch.
If anything this would be better than the garbage photoschop proposal posted before.Quote:
#1
Snowstorm Platemail+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x15
Limited Edition Keys x5
Gems x100
#2
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x12
Limited Edition Keys x4
Gems x 80
#3
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x10
Limited Edition Keys x 3
Gems x60
#4-10
Snowstorm Platemail x1
Water Fusion Boosts x8
Limited Edition Keys x3
Gems x40
#11-25
Northerner's Battlegear x1
Water Fusion Boosts x7
Limited Edition Keys x2
Gems x20
#25-50
Clayplate Mantle+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x5
Limited Edition Key x2
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
#51-100
Clayplate Mantle+ x1
Water Fusion Boosts x3
Limited Edition Key x1
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
#101-250
Clayplate Mantle x1
Water Fusion Boosts x2
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
Fusion Stones x10
#251-500
Clayplate Mantle x1
Storm Sorcerer+ x1
Fusion Stones x 8
#501-1XXX
Same Rewards as always
I am with you, it's kinda lame after level 100. And also not worth for people that burn their money into this game
http://i4.minus.com/ijGyjAHCOlQ3s.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
If GREE actually makes war rewards more worthwhile, we will see in 2-3 months that I am right and you are wrong.
Wow.
The movement must be so proud of you. As one of its most vocal supporters, I'm sure they're just in awe of your superior photoshop skills.
Again, you lack the reasoning skills to counter anything I say, so you "blah blah blah" it away and continue your babbling.
And 2-3 months? We're going to listen to you whine about 11+ until then? Ugh.
I agree that the rewards are far out of reach for anyone who plays KnD and doesn't pull in six figures. Basically you start off playing an amazing game, but soon realize that unless you have THOUSANDS of dollars to spend on gems (in HOPES of a worth while reward), you will never reach anything "worth" blowing all that money on. Top 500 alone is a nice accomplishment for an infant guild, but the rewards are junk. I say EB armors for 500+, plus version for 250+ and then begin the low level epics at 100+.
Change the alga-rhythms for the chests, and the fusions as well. House seems to have a HUGE advantage! this game is suppose to be FUN right?!
And level 100 on.....whats the point?! I got ONE GEM for hitting lvl 126 yesterday. REALLY!? will there ever be an update to allow stat increases after 100? If so, those of us past lvl 100 will also miss out on any other bonuses given to 100+ if there is ever an update.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. People will stop playing and paying if it continues to all be for nothing.
Oh, and just one more thought... Thanks for the starter packs. I will not be purchasing any thing but them from now on. Oh, you took them away? well, as i said I won't be purchasing anything other than that until things change. Oh! and the GEMTACULAR thing....yeah HA!! I bet most everyone buys ten bucks worth of gems to get the 3 fba and that's it. really, from 50 to 1,500 to 5000! FYI 5k gems would cost you roughly $500!!! some of us support our families and don't have that kind of money. not sure what world you're living in, but it seems a bit.....EXCESSIVE.
The guild relations is the ONLY appealing part of the game, if it weren't for the other players and the friendships gained, I would have dumped this game months ago.
ONE MORE THING!! IMPORTANT!! -- Please explain to me WHY if you add higher lvl friends when you begin and hire them for battle, WHY do they get creamed even with stats over 2k?!? My son added me and is on lvl 26. I can defeat the EB 20+ times with only my main knight. But if he hires me to go into battle, I'm no stronger than he is and even with my help he is unable to beat a lvl 10 EB?! why add higher lvl friends then? Or at all? I can't use their full potential til YOU BECOME THAT STRONG TOO? Well, by then we DON'T NEED them. Makes no sense. Another way to hold a player back despite them trying to advance so that ONCE AGAIN dependency on gems comes into play.
Maybe you should just make a new version for poor people. Call it Knights and Dragons II: Ages of Recession.
Looking forward to future "updates"
Your stats are the same, but your health is the same as his.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDARCLEOxX
To add to the list of burning questions.
Whats up with the increasing miss ratio. I'm missing so much the only hit I'm getting is my palm against my face.
And can we fix screen rotation, cause it's no fun typing in guild chat in horizontal keyboard
Soooooo many first time Gree game players. I merely discuss how the Gree model works & the way they implement their business plan & I'm called a Gree hater. I've been the staunchest supporter of the game & insisting changes were coming. Guess what, they aren't.
Gree doesn't make money giving players new content, they make it by covering as many demographics as possible with as many games as possible.
For the record, this is my 5th forum account, 14th month playing the game, & 4th Gree game.
if this is your 4th gree game then you are more of an idiot than I originally thought. Every heard the saying " Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me" ? And this is your 4thQuote:
Originally Posted by Skittle Stomper
Ever heard of getting bored of games?Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cobaltss
So you ARE eunochorn... they called that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittle Stomper
Aww. And he hasn't contacted me yet? I don't want to be the default anti-christ anymore. But... like you said, they're all so sure they're right, SOMEONE has to keep them in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by bosskiller
/wrists
You guys still don't get it. Gree doesn't care if any of you leave/quit.
They would certainly care if enough spenders quit the game, but since that is not happening and probably won't happen in the future, then they have no incentive to change their model. What works for them is clearly working in terms of profit, since people are still spending.Quote:
Originally Posted by furyp
I also think that many people fail to realize that Knights and Dragons isn't Gree's only game. They have plenty of other endeavors and projects that are earning them money, so their eggs are definitely not all in one basket. As a result, they:
1. Probably do not have as many people working on KnD as many think, and
2. Can afford to not listen to any of our requests because, again, it is clearly making them money.
Nah by the time spenders quit, they would have stop making weekly updates (no epic boss, no arena, no guildwar), then they will shut down the game. Look at what happened to monster quest.