Not true. I dont get more than 1-2 gem offers a month. When im lucky i get about 5-6 but thats very unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
Not every country gets alot of offers. Im far from the only one who barely get any.
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Not true. I dont get more than 1-2 gem offers a month. When im lucky i get about 5-6 but thats very unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
Not every country gets alot of offers. Im far from the only one who barely get any.
*Corrections with red, wrong calculations posted originallyQuote:
Originally Posted by bloodwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
I was somewhat wrong with my original calculation, but the result is still the same, only 20 gems pro player are required to get 200.000 gems from like 400 guilds, 500 gems pro guild.
I think that is fine.
To be successful in the war currently you need:
DEDICATED TIME + MONEY FOR GEMS + GOOD ARMORS
I would like that MONEY factor is taken away. To win then you need: TIME + GOOD ARMORS.
In every game/sport you need time to invest to be successful. If you dont invest time in something then how could you win? But this is currently also like that in KND.
- And what could be the criteria for the winners otherwise?
- You could have also max 1 attack pro enemy guild member with 20 attacks/ war. Like in the arena .. Is this somewhat limiting the "free time" issue you addressing?
Anyone have a screen shot of the points around #400 of the last war? I'm curious to see where they fall in the p2w/f2p spectrum. Also, at 20 gems per player, 500 per guild, that is putting an average of 25 players per guild. 25 players * 400 guilds = 10,000 players. Okay, sorta doable. But I also don't see those 10k people all wanting to participate. Likely, I envision more guilds having less people participate, or not enough gems to buy in, but that is just my negative thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodwolf
And as far as people investing time, most of the top guilds have already done that, much more than most. And their time + good armors will trump 99% of everyone else's time + good armors. Once you factor in that people can still spend on chests and get epics, those that aren't spending, are going to get beat by those that are willing to spend.
Spin it however you want, anyone trying to even the playing field by making one giant buy in tournament is still going to get blasted by those who have already invested more time (and money) than you, regardless. If this was how it was from the start, you might have had a chance, but not now. That is why this won't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
1. I see also some risks from Gree's perspective .. but as you can get 20 gems even from doing offers/quests .. I do not think this is an issue.
2. Right. If you have better armors and you invest more time .. then you should win! This is the essence of the game. And if you invest also money on buying chests .. you will be better for sure. BUT. We have lot of guilds with lot of strong players (3 maxed epics even ) which have NO chance to get in the top 10 if most/any of the members are not spending several hundred dollars/euros on gems.
Whit such change .. the war would be more fair, and really the strongest guilds (and not the richest) would be in the top. Some currently top 10 guild will be there, for sure, but then 10- 200 guilds have a chance to get in the top 10!
I invested 0 cents in this game, I have 2 epics. It can be done.
For me it is not the same if you have to spend 2 EUR or 200 EUR to be able to compete for top 10, to have just a chance! What about you?
3. I would fall off my chair if Gree would implement this. :) I also think it should be like this from beginning and changing now is a deep cut. But this does not change my opinion that not the money amount you invest should decide a war. (in a game, at least)
BloodWolf,
High commander
Dark Souls (top 25 )
Yep, but end result was still correct :pQuote:
Originally Posted by iH8t2lose2
Bloodstone has the right general concept of getting away from the auction concept. The auction concept will not keep a player base over the long run. The details in this case would not work. I think it needs the tier approach as des cussed before.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
By the way my guild scored 350 something and I believe we spent total about $30..since you were asking.
It's been said 1million times before but here goes,
I took me spending £5-600 before I accepted the simple fact.. Money spent is the ONLY reason this game exists. Those spending the most SHOULD & WILL continue to dominate.
Sucks for poor people. Heh?! NSS! - It sucks to be poor!
And for those with the.. Eugh i've got the money i just choose not to spend it on a game.. Fine but you also CHOOSE not to compete at a descent level.
Stop playing.. Or stop moaning about it start spending to compete.
The only reasonable idea i've read (in the last few pages) was about tiered wars. Although it'd suck if anyone outside top tiers were unable to get Epic rewards so not sure there's a way around that that couldn't be fudged by those willing to take the time.
So $30 total for your whole guild. How many are in that guild? How many fights did you have? How many attacks did you have on average? I'm trying to get a ballpark of where those guilds are in comparison to the larger guilds. Members/$ spent/gems spent/battles etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spock
I still don't think the tiered approach works at all, because it is too easy to play the system if there is a clear buy-in price, and set tiers for prize levels. And as far as being an auction, if you make the tiered system with higher buy ins, you've still done the same general thing: The guilds with the most money get the best rewards because they've bought the best tier, while the guilds with less/no spending still get nothing (because I guarantee Gree would make the rewards for the "free" and "low" tiers virtually worthless).
The only "tier" idea I see working with any success is the flat "win" tier. Still rewards all guilds equally based on war performance and actual wins. The higher level or higher winning guilds would still get benefits, but so too could many lower level guilds, and it doesn't require an immediate buy in, since many low level guilds can win battles 1000-900 just as easily as other high level guilds win 300k to 250k. A win is a win is a win, and in this case, you aren't competing against other guilds. No guild can knock you out of a ranking. Once you get a win, it is counted. You're simply trying to win as much as possible, regardless of the score.
The blackfrost was a "big deal" armor for my guild. It would seem like nothing to you of course. What would really be cool is fighting a group of equals for 1st place in our tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
You need the highest level tiers to be set up the same like a table stakes poker game where everyone has a buyin. Right now I could get dealt a royal flush and still lose because the other guy just keeps raising the stakes till I am out of money. That is why the current model us not sustainable.
As a RR person I get your reticence since you always will buy the pot and will always win...If you had to battle on equal terms money wise there is a larger chance you would lose... However it is in Gree's best interest to change to a tablestakes game.
I also think your tiered win approach will work and will make the gamers happy for the medium term. It would seem fairly easy to implement and would be a win win for everyone...
This isn't Grees first game, but it's obviously many people's first Gree game. They have a model. K&D wars fit into it perfectly.
Asking for free/tiered wars is like asking God to get rid of evil because we have good. Duality sucks & we live in a global corporatacracy. Let's think of some Quality of Life mechanics that need improving & stop kicking the dead horse that is P2W Funzio model
Haven't seen the suggestion yet: fix the cheating issue! Cheating is apparently so easy to do that it seems like more people cheat than not. I'm tired of seeing cheating in nearly every war, cheating on donations, cheating for gems, cheating on chests, apparently if you get banned you can cheat that too.
Can we make this game appealing to legit players and do something about the rampant cheating? Maybe ban some cheaters BEFORE the war? Maybe reset guilds that have been cheating? Something that isn't simply encouraging more and more players to start cheating? Just a thought.
I have no problem paying to play. I have a problem paying to win in an open ended system where there is no competition other then spending more then the other guy. There is no satisfaction in winning under that set of rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eunuchorn
We will continue to see a degradation in earnings for Gree under the current system until the game is closed...or Gree may actually try to make some sustainable money by changing the guild war model.... :)
Constant wars. When one war ends, another begins. But...your guild can only participate in one multi-day long war or 2-3 Blitz wars in any given 30-day span.
That way, the Top 10 guilds are not dominating every war. The Top 10 turns into the Top 30, and guilds can take as long as they like to prepare for a war.
Also add two or three week-long wars. This would disincentivize gem spending. Sure, GREE wants gem spenders and gem spending keeps the game going, but gems spenders would still spend gems in the other wars. The prizes for these could include things we don't usually see in wars...like limited-edition capes, special titles and ENHANCED POTIONS.
I dunno.
It is unlikely the war system would change. It's going strong in every game; they are dealing with things like server systems / consolidation / coordination etc. I have a thread I bump once in awhile that has all the game war dates & they have recently begun to align in a more specific way.
It's very unlikely they would devote the server space to have multiple K&D wars side by side on the off chance people will continuously spend gems & the tier that doesn't spend will be happy (supposedly) there's a lot of parameters that would have to be decided on, like level ranges per tier etc. lots of balance issues, & worse, lots of programming.
Here is a suggestion that combines many already available features of the game but should increase the social aspect of guilds.
The idea a multi-phase limited time quest that has some phases done independently and some done by a group.
Example: a 5 day LTQ with 3 phases
Phase 1: a quest announcing the need for materials to craft a new armor:
Guild is set a target - eg donate 3000 material - eg roc feathers (so the whole guild does this independently)
Phase 2: a quest announcing that a rare material requiring the killing of a new monster (might be in a new map or existing map region). The area has monsters that are too strong for any individual player to take down. E.g 4 lvl 10 guardians / lvl 60 epic bosses. One new super epic boss at the end. This requires all the guild to arrange to gather together and "fight" at the same time. Drops may be random so forces the guilds to work together to get enough materials. Only 1 guild member gets the material (eg the commander)
Phase 3: crafting the armor. The guild commander then crafts the armor. Because only 1 person gets the armor, the guild has to work together to rotate the gc so that all members can get the materials. Gms who dare not rotate will not get the armour.
If the LTQ is done right - there should be insufficient time to complete the 3 phases for all 40 members which means that some will sacrifice and not get the armor OR some gems are spent to speed things up.
This may sound like a quest only for strong players but some weaker players may be "carried" by stronger players in the guild and smaller/ weaker guilds may be able to get the materials If the players are willing to "power attack" every time even HL guardians can be taken down.
Reward should be a mid strength epic armor -
New feature "guild castle" a copy of the castle that can be customised for the guild. 1 per guild. Eg unique guild building - look and feel customised by guild colours, a few higher powered buildings - eg higher power smiths OR a store house for obsolete armors (members can contribute old armors no longer wanted but nice to look at). Once contributed cannot be taken out. But the armor can be seen and the contributor acknowledged. Other copies contributed - not seen but the contributor name added to the honor roll of contributors for that armour.
I would like to suggest two features. I hope you guys can do this. One feature is a "online" or "offline" friend notification. When your friends are online there would be a green dot next to the name and if they are offline there would be a red dot. This will also help guilds plan out their guild battles better. The second feature is a chat room with your friends too. This will help players communicate better. They can give tips, which types of armor are good, etc.
Online/offline a great idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Madara
Look up Line Messenger in App Store (green icon) search TehEunuchorn plenty of K&D chats
There are some really cool ideas in here Albert. I hope Gree is looking at this....Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEvolve
Hi gree . I have this problem sometime
http://i.imgur.com/OFXTtN1.jpg
.but there is another problem with my luck in combine Armors
http://i.imgur.com/GqgliXz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2krzOxm.jpg
Can u please make a new option in compine that if I spend 30 gems can I have my armors back..thanks
How about ban all the cheaters because its not even hard imo
Buster I run a 30+ player f2p guild and we use a modest amount of gems in each GW, but they come from offers, vids and downloads (my rough guess is around 800 gems in a 3 day war). Our final score was about 690,000 points. Is that helpful?Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
The suggestion thread seems the right place for this.
More than anything: I want stability in Knights and Dragons. I haven't been able to play today due to updates and the game crashing. I've deleted and reinstalled the game multiple times, restarted my phone (all things one shouldn't have to do to play...) and all I've gotten is the "Update Required" screen where I get to slowly watch the progress bar fill from 0.0% to 100% then stall out and freeze with the spinning element icon.
This isn't the first time this has happened. Worse, I expect it to happen at least every other week. This isn't a rant and I don't want to be taken as some raging douche. Unfortunately for me, I love this game. I've yet to invest a cent in Knights and Dragons and I would if I felt that I could use the gems I might buy at anytime of my choosing; which certainly is not the case. I've missed guild wars before due to the game crashing or server updates, maintenance or whatever (which isn't a good look for a GM). Today I'missed out on the 52 kill on the Wyvren that would have rewarded me with that ribbon's prizes.
Smart phones are amazing pieces of tech and I can't imagine how difficult it is to support a game like this, but I honestly feel like the beta testing for anything new in Knights and Dragons is,"Launch a guild war, let's see what happens, then maybe address it later."
I'd buy gems regularly if I thought I could play and use them when I wanted to.
So my suggestions: trouble shoot and beta test ten times more than is currently being done; announce server maintenance, communicate with us and say, 'You ain't gon be able to play on 11/13/13 from 12:00-3:00 cause we fixing teh stuff.' If it was communicated upfront I'd honestly be okay with that message as I wrote it. I've contacted GREE before when the game crashes for days and have been told my phone was faulty which was an awful bit of PR, made me roll my eyes, and want to punch puppies.
I've no doubt they are working hard to correct the problems that I and others are having, but this isn't the first time and all the work that is being done now, should have been done last week...
I--and surely others--would support the game financially if it was stable enough to play on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, that hasn't been my experience.
Hi these suggestions will make the game so much better
1.Biggest need in this game. A trading system so you can trade armor and crafting materials
2.Remove friend hiring limit
3.Improve the daily login system so that if you log in every day long enough you get an epic armor
4.Add more spaces on kingdom
5.New map locations that you can get legendary and epic armor on starting with previous epic boss armor and the first epic armor
6.Trading system this is to show emphasis that you need to put it in everybody wants it so satisfy the people who play and support the game and put it in
Armors that actually look like armors.... In stead of a bad rendition of the epic monster you killed.
Swamp shaman - cool looking - swamp stone plate - hideous. Or the stupid looking water armor. Make them look like knights or wizards not nuts.
The comment that everyone wants trading is not accurate. In fact, the only thing that I don't disagree with from your list is kingdom expansions. Too many games I have played have been completely ruined by trading markets and auctions or some other variation. Once those features get implemented it just draws in more hackers/cheats/exploits and the game is broken beyond belief. Friend limits are there so you can't just spam friends all day for the epic boss and constant leveling/farming 24-7-365. And handing out high powered armors for little to no effort is not a road to go down. Who is going to buy anything if it is being handed out for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquat_Overlord
Hello.
First: It would be great if you add percents of experience in the left top corner so we could see how many exp we have to get to the next level.
Secondly: A chat box with friends from list will be also very helpful because there is only a possibility of chatting in a guild. There is no private chat between two friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikieblue
I see you guys have already all the answers, right? "stop playing or start spending"
Can you explain to me if you totally lost your sense of money value because of this game/Gree? You know, you can buy a ps4 with several games with that money, for days of gaming fun. You can go to a trip in the mountains for a week. You can buy several rounds of drinks for all your friends in the pub or even for the whole pub. You can donate it to wikipedia, better choice! Put it away for your kid university fee/ or for buying a new car .. because this sum counts already.
Even if you have more money then you can spend, you should sense that these things cant be compared. Here you get a drawing on your phone, another armor next to the several epics you already have. For me such an armor values no more then 1 EUR. Maybe 2, if I would not have any already. And I don't pay more for something which does not have that value, period.
So what I can say .. good choices, just go on! All of you, just keep Gree happy.
Hey! I found Batman! Where's my prize?;)
Ok so I love the new updates but I'm still having issues with the guild items, first off I wish we had a mailing system so members can chat with one another, for example if a guild member is really into the game but is having issues with being able to participate and be active for whatever reason can't or does not want everyone to know.. Or if they have a strategy they want to share with someone it gets erased in the chat since it can only go so far back. Secondly our guild is at level 51 but the member and officer slots are still the same since level 40 or 45, I wish we were rewarded with more slots for both things since it takes a lot of time,participation, and being frequently active on the game.
Alright so I loved the Halloween epic boss's, the classic werewolf and of course the age old headless horseman was great, was slightly disappointed about the other one.. Since seeing that I wanted to make a suggestion for the December epic boss characters/armor, most people in my guild said they would love to see Jack Frost, frosty the snowman,evil reindeer/elves, abominable snowman, and of course a killer lookin Santa if possible(not evil just cool lookin).
The amount of money for gems IS very high. I totally agree on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodwolf
I mean making mediocre bonus's for buying 5k for like £400 is just mental. It's never sustainable & to be honest it borders on the line of exploitation of it's customers. But i'm sure if Mr Gree himself was asked this question he'd reply.. "WELL MY FRIEND, THAT IS THE PLAN! AS MUCH MONEY FROM YOU AS POSSIBLE, AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE"
Say the average person earns £2000 per month in the UK. For Gree to get 2.5% of that per month £50 they should be more than happy with a solid and ongoing return.
I'd probably agree to sign up for a premium account for around this cost per month if it gave.
1. It's cost value in Gems each month <-- paramount importance.
2. Some additional benefits as a premium user (extra friends/ more armour space / new or improved buildings.)
3. Additional "something" special, like being able to see armour of first knight in arena of anyone you battle before you choose to battle them, you get the idea.. Just some way to get more information not available to the standard accounts.
Gree get legacy on thier customers & assured direct debits each month or whatever so it's all good for them..
Anyway i'm going off on a tangent as usual.
My point is, Yes the model is unsustainable as it is. Yes gems are over priced. We all know that TRUST ME ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO BUY THE MOST! and.. yes you could spend money on more productive / better / more useful things but if you CHOOSE to play.. As i said in my previous post but hopefully explained a little better.
If you dont like how GREE manage the game. I totally understand but it's your decision to play. If you feel so strongly about it. Stop playing..
IF you want to continue to play you just want more for free, accept WHY this wont happen and either be happy to play the game below the top tier of play OR spend gems like those who do compete for the top.
Money & it's value to individuals is not really something that is worth discussing. To someone from Vietnam for example £50 could be like 1 years wage where as to a Brit this would be 2hrs work, it's all relative. It comes down to YOU as an individual and how much value you hold in achiving what you want to achieve in the game.
Hope you get my point.. Certainly not having a go at you.
as aplayer that play pretty long time , and connected like almost all day i must say that this game is awesome and since ive been wirting u about the fusion stones thing u fixed that and made it more dropable, now , i got idea for u , u can add archivments to get more gems for the non buyers and its be cool to , you dont need to do it ez , i mean hard challenges like ( JUST AN EXAMPLE) collect 100 chunk of coral = 5 GEMS or somthing likes that , gems cost maby less that can be pretty to , u should talk to ur ads company u work with and fix ur ads , they not appear somtimes and video offers only worked one time for me on IOS and ANDROID (friend) ,u should realy work on ur combination (machine?) thing , i dont know how it realy work but it messd up and not realy work correctly like it should be (the chances). ho and another thing i mean the shop is realy empty i mean add somthing to it its fking annoy to see those training field all my life change it ,replace it , make somthing new , more expansions , new maps
(im sorry for the bad english and the mess i made up ther but try to understand me english is not my native languge .)
after thinking more 2 secs i got it : ur one and only problem is that gems cost money and to much , its pretty annoy that u need to buy to progress.
what about the ability to stop crafting something. to free up space in your armoury you could get no materials back or maybe
some back but it could be proportional to the time you have left in crafting it
For the gem spent deal you need more levels instead 50,1500 and 5000. It should be something every 10-50 gems and it should NOT expire after 5 days. It should last a month.
Crossovers with other gree games.
Not sure if anyone else plays other gree games but perhaps characters could be imported across games. Imagine clan and guilds with similar teams across games. Of course this could be done by getting people to come over and build up again but if they got a bonus for crossing over. I think it would also improve the stickiness overall for gree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikieblue
Thanks for your detailed response! I understand your point, of course you spend your money the way you like. :) I live also in a western EU country, I could spend that amount also, but I choose not to, for such a game with such a content .. not this much. As I said .. 1 EUR, my offer, hehe.
With current game rules/content I am fully ok in the top 50 guild I am and with the ~25.000 points I make in a war.
I like your idea of the premium account. It could even include an amount of gems per month.
With my post I just wanted to express my wish for a different war gameplay so that the best players win, not the ones who choose to spend the most. (The rankings would be probably much like it is today .. but not the top 10 guilds would have to support war costs/Gree)
I still think the war ticket would be also a solution, it could be tried once .. if does not work then go back to the actual version: if 500 guilds buy the ticket , then make the epic war happen, otherwise return gems to guilds.
But I guess that I have more chance to win on lottery then to get Gree to make changes. (I play on lottery once a year :D)
improved guild chat, let guild leader post things that will always be there. That way they can post rules, and every member will see it.
Guild raids, or guild bosses, that guild can fight together.
guild bonuses, like a temporary bonus that makes it more likely to find fusion stones. these would be bought with guild funds similar to guardians. 100,000 for 1% increase, 250,000 for 2% increase, up to like 5%. another one for keys.
FIX START BATTLE, its so annoying when people can just keep pressing it over and over, and waste all of our guardians.
add an extra area each week for people who have beat dark prince. this would appear like epic boss, and then disappear after time limit.
let guild members donate money for specific things. "You have donated 500,000 towards element bonuses" or guardians, or w/e you want.
I like the idea of fusing two same armors for plus version.
add something to make farming more fun.
more limited edition quests, those are really fun.
use certain amount of gems to fuse certain level of armors, like 50 to get epic. should not be automatic, but should drastically increase chances.
Should consider adding other features to increase variations in the knights.
For example a slot for weapons.
Weapons would
1) change the look of the knight. If today there were 200 armors and 10 weapons there would be 2000 unique combinations
2) gree could charge for weapons - new chest types or bosses
3) weapons could be
- normal weapons, only change the look
- bonus/ power weapons which give some bonus eg ++ in attack or defense
- ability weapons which add to health or increased gold or material drops or fusion/ key drops
- special matching weapons to particularly improve a certain armors stats
The weapons could also then be used to rejuvenate old armors and become quest rewards.
E.g take a steam exoskeleton. Outdated but suddenly a quest is given which give a new weapon if matched together. Go on a quest and win the weapon and viola old armor drawing refreshed and stats up.
Another thing to consider
Allowing us to change the allocation of the points gained per level.
E.g. If gree would allow us to gain 1 point per level between 100 and above but we could allocate to attack or defense, this would let us build different types of knights.
Some would add to attack and have killer attack, others to defense and become a tank etc
If this ability point was only for the main knight it would force the player to make decisions.