That would be very much appreciated. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
That would be very much appreciated. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
I believe it is very clear. And it is clear that it is not, in fact, against TOS. You dismissed my reasoning because you find the database morally objectionable (not in itself a position I disagree with).Quote:
I said, for any tool like this the acceptability under TOS should be very clear and explicit.
Surely what you really mean is that you believe this should be against TOS, and clearly stated as such within TOS.
You claimed that the information within the database had a significant effect on the game. I pointed out that extensive and invasive use of the database could have yielded pretty much the same information that everyone with access to the database had already. Hence, the database was not at all game changing. (In fact, I would argue it had very close to no effect whatsoever - which is why it was abandoned so quickly).Quote:
I also rejected your novel argument later that the tool doesn't matter, because top 3 syndicates are rich enough (basically) to not need it anyway. What contradiction you discern between these two statements I cannot begin to fathom. Frankly, there is none.
You're far, far closer to the real issue, now.Quote:
More to the point, when I know that this kind of access is possible, and that bad uses are not protected against, I want to know what the admins and company make of it, even though the great ones say they are pure as the driven snow
As I stated much earlier in the thread, the problem is that all this data is being sent out at all (along with other, far more sensitive data, which is sent out in tickets). Gree needs to solve it's data issues. That is a stone-cold fact. Gree most certainly do not need to continue their lax practices and patch up the aftermath with ad hoc misapplication of the TOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
That is rather slippery of you Agent Starling. Reading quickly, one did surmise that you were calling Drake an idiot. In fact you were registering your strong, though subtle, protest at others unfairly calling Drake that. That, or you're producing logic and sentence chopping at levels unusual even for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
TOS, like any legal document is only applicable to things as they stood at the time of writing, and possibilities which had come to the attention of the persons writing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
If a data mining tool did not, then it could be considered an oversight and TOS needs updating to take it into account.
I'll just say that I agree totally with your previous post that Gree's sending out of unencrypted data is the real issue at stake here. That is what needs correcting.
IBTL
All your data are belong to us.
Actually, I thought it was you that said the "idiotic" thing. Yeah, Green Drake really is an idiot. I take back my previous comment.
The security sensitive info routinely sent out with every email to and from support most certainly doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Hey wait just a minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
MT, I'd put you at least in the top 4000.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattThomas08
Thanks BF. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of players, that's gotta be upper 1%!Quote:
Originally Posted by Butt Futter
Besides, I'd like to imagine nobody has reached 1 mil stats much lower than L113 ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattThomas08
You set the standard for all hackers to top! :)
You know I love you son..Quote:
Originally Posted by MattThomas08
But anyone putting an account in a top 3 will get them stats before long..
My KA are 1.5mil at level 93 :)
Pokes my tongue out at your meagre stats.
Lets go Defense Attorney on this...
This information was used to 'clean up and keep the wrong people out of top syndicates' (or the few that used it at least), correct?
So, being that you are keeping the 'wrong players' - hackers, cheaters, time travelers, and whatnot; you yourself have crossed over the line to help clean up the game. This would be similar to a police officer going out and finding rapist in his off time and punishing him himself. Better yet, obtaining proof that was not gathered under reasonable aspects and eluding the rights set forth - even the criminals have those rights, to obtain this information and then putting him on the top of the suspect list or even turning what he found over to the DA for prosecution. These methods are often refereed to as "fruit of the poisonous tree". This in fact has affect the the cheaters, hackers, whatever else by exposing them and not allowing them in your syndicate by gaining evidence or fruit of the poisonous tree.
There have been in fact a few cases where one of these cheaters/hackers/or whatever were banned mid war. This is something that Gree does and is obviously procedure for them. These banned players during war then become a feast for anyone that wants to hit them as it's a guaranteed win and normally giving pretty decent Influence Points.
Thus, by using this information, you have now affected the cheater/hacker, the 59 other players on your syndicate and the thousands of players that would have a chance to hit this person during a war.
We can go another route and claim that you have affected another syndicate indirectly by pushing this person away and not warning everyone else so now this person goes to another syndicate that doesn't use these outside and improper methods to expose people. So now all 59 people on this syndicate are now affected by your turning away the cheater/hacker because you had information that you should never have been able to access.
If you want to be the self proclaimed savior of Crime City, think about this - a mob boss killing another mob boss will still get the same punishment according to your laws because its not WHO you commit the crime against, it's the fact that the murder was made. 2 wrongs do not make a right!
Don't ever hire my butt to defend you...if you're in the wrong, wear your scarlet letter.
On another note, I do now what information is collected because I was given a screen shot of ALL the information on me.
Tldr...........
It's a game. Not a court case.
People take this game way to seriously
Does this mean I am not allowed to use 3rd party software such as Groupme, Line, or Palringo to communicate with my team? Can I also not use google docs to track battle statistics?
I don't want to violate the TOS!
-Triga
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMI
.....I object!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
The man with the horrible pictures speaks truth!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
No experty in law like some of y'all around here. Marketing is my game!
But wouldnt the fact data has been accessed about peoples private spending history be a privacy breach?
The other crap is just numbers, but real money information has been looked at and recodred.
I dont like the idea of people reading this data. Gree needs to tidy up their act so this cant be done. I dont think we can fully blame the few that have gone to this level but it is morally wrong IMO.
Overruled! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TG3d
Oh it's absolutely a privacy breach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebels
You surely can't be talking about me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
Pictures of teresasmother are beautiful...
I need a visual response to your comment so I can determine your tone please :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
Idk why people have to come up with analogies of police searching cars & using courtroom assumptions to somehow make their "case"...
The fact of the matter remains that certain players are accessing player data beyond the means of what GREE intended for this game. If GREE wanted everyone to see an individual's spending habits or stat point distribution (etc etc) when we visited a rival's city, surely they would have implemented that from the start. Regardless to what the proponents of utilizing this 3rd party app are saying, this does alter a players experience whether it is apparent or not to the player that's getting shafted..
With that said, it's clearly a violation of the ToS & a moderator should have said, at the very beginning of this thread that, it is exactly that. Also that, GREE is working to curb the use of 3rd party software & that they're taking the proper steps to rectify the situation.
Again, in what way does it alter playing experience? Nobody so far has given an example of an altered playing experience - just some fairly tenuous claims as to how it might possibly be used to do so.
My bad. I made a one-liner comment saying "In criminal justice, we call this 'plain view'" mostly trying to point out that there's no "hacking" involved. It's just a matter of reading information that gree is firing at your device completely unencrypted. It wasn't a perfect metaphor, and it just so happened that there was another lawyer in the room. I still stand by the point I was trying to make, but I didn't mean to start a legal argument over it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by (BF) Tuna
Totally understand, and it is concerning that they're just sending unencrypted data like that left & right. Especially when considering that the game is tied to credit/debit cards for most serious players. Frankly, I can't blame those who are tech savvy enough to have come up with this.. Problem is, it's giving those who are utilizing this data collection a leg-up on their opponents. (Clearly it's giving them a leg-up otherwise it wouldn't be used or possibly even created in the first place)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
@Bald.. I'm sure you're familiar enough with how this data-collection works (whether you use it or not) to understand that it does alter a player's experience. Both on the user's end and the person who's data is being deciphered. The whole snafu with MT's score was trivial... This, not so much.
I will add that, I don't feel there should be any serious repercussions for those who are able to collect data like this- so long as that's all that they're doing with this info. Afterall it's on GREE for not properly encrypting said data (and even then, a serious hacker could decrypt it). Those who are maliciously using this information, though, they need to be sorted out and removed from the game.
I have stopped attacking or robbing anyone known to be rogue. Personally I don't want anyone knowing my spending habits. Since they are still using the program and don't have issues making it public I have had to alter my playing experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
Just on a hunch and with no way to verify, I'd be willing to bet that not only do you have nowhere NEAR the stats required to attack anyone in that group, you probably can't name more than 4 of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
I have no problem robbing the rogues members that I know at my level.
Att-800k
Def-814k
OK... level and game name?Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
Same name 187.
This actually all came about because I was going back and forth with a rogue player. When I saw his name on a pvp leader board I stopped.
If your next question is how much gold have I spent I am not going to be happy.
This is probably a good idea. An idea that all players should adhere to. Attack a Rogue and we will eat your children, savage your women, steal your car, sell your dog, and fart in your general direction. We are a scary lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
Now I can actually laugh at the MP reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppers
Or you could chose the avenue beardy decided to travel. Actually prefer the fart.
Knock it off or I will taunt you a second time. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
Interesting discussion in my field of expertise..... (hacking/privacy/NSA/networks/sniffing) ;-) Only thing I can say from here.. It is fully legal in my country to SNIFF data and collect data that is made public available and goes through my own router ;-) And I just found the data model and I can guarantee you that I can fully generate and automate my own SQL database with all user data.. This user data is also available when I do It manually. SInce I do it without breaching and or hacking the game platform by itself I have no legal issues ;-)
You can fart at me peppers...
The person who claimed about credit/debit cards. That's all done through apple or your own devices equivalent not gree so no issue there.
Breaking out the holy hand grenade.
Data model:
- id
- invite_code
- username
- town_name
- character_class_id
- last_update_energy_value
- last_update_energy_time
- max_energy
- last_update_stamina_value
- last_update_stamina_time
- max_stamina
- money
- steel
- respect
- gold
- gold_spent
- is_spender
- experience
- bank_balance
- skill_points
- skill_points_spent
- level
- level_up
- attack
- defense
- clan_size
- paid_clan_size
- is_tutorial_complete
- time_of_first_attack
- num_attacks_this_hour
- ab_test
- is_banned
- is_muted
- is_test_account
- image_version
- image_base_cache_key
- stat_jobs_completed
- stat_jobs_failed
- stat_bosses_beaten
- stat_fights_won
- stat_fights_won_as_attacker
- stat_fights_won_as_defender
- stat_fights_lost
- stat_fights_lost_as_attacker
- stat_fights_lost_as_defender
- stat_robs_completed
- stat_robs_failed
- stat_jobs_money_earned
- stat_fights_money_attack_won
- stat_fights_money_attack_lost
- stat_fights_money_defense_won
- stat_fights_money_defense_lost
- stat_robs_money_won
- stat_robs_money_lost
- last_game_load_time
- num_game_loads
- number_buildings_owned
- width_expansion_level
- length_expansion_level
- expansion_direction
- expansion_time_started
- server_sequence_num
- total_building_area
- outfit_base_cache_key
- available_vip_invites
- stamina_cost_to_fight
- capped_clan_size
- invite_vip_time
- last_update_health_value
- last_update_health_time
- max_health
- last_free_scratcher_open_time
- database_id
- unique_id
- payload
- time_created
- time_updated
- version
- game_account_created
- diamond
- stat_money_earned
- stat_respect_earned
- stat_buildings_purchased
- stat_building_collect_count
- stat_items_purchased
- stat_guns_purchased
- stat_melee_purchased
- stat_armor_purchased
- stat_cars_purchased
- stat_expansions_purchased
- stat_props_purchased
- created_at
- updated_at
- recent_gold_purchase
- attacker_raw_attack_strength
- defender_raw_defense_strength
- attacker_attack_skill
- defender_defense_skill
- defender_building_defense
- item_raw_attack
- item_raw_defense
- item_bosted_attack
- item_bosted_defense
- inventory_udated_at