A response to your concerns regarding cheaters and taking a step forward together

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Originally Posted by Shinazueli

The difference between two dictionaries? It's still fact. An indisputable fact: the scientific data we've gathered through repeatable experiments (aka playing the game) does not support the premise that these guilds are legitimate. It's "highly improbable" which where I work means just about impossible. Close enough to certainty for engineering.

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Again....... you see a phenomenon that makes you curious because it stands out from the norm. So you (us) are eager to know why it's different, which is human nature.
If it was a toy, you could take it apart and figure out everything by seeing the inside and how they work.

But it's a 60 member guild which you are an outsider to. You don't have access to the logs of this guild, their present and past players since the date of creation.
If you would, you could do like with the toy.

So, you rely on your second best tool: Argumenting, believing and you come up with a theory. Very plausible and convincing, but a theory nevertheless.
Back when eearth was flat, there were people who would put their hand in fire that that's how it was.Until some smart man, came up with a theory....... and attention....... he went on to prove it and the theory became a fact and a proven truth.

What you have here regarding 60 member guilds, is a theory that you and many others are ready to put the hand on fire but a theory...... which is not yet proven.
Despite what you are trying to sell, your arguments and number crunching and observation are not data adn waaaay far from Gree logs of the guild donations. Your theory and experiment at best can be called a speculation, not scientific (which you keep calling it, but i doubt exchanging opinions in forum among those who believe the same is any sot of science)

Now, if we accept a theory without proof -------60 member guild got there by hacking
Why don't accept another theory without proof --------- top box event guy cheats?

I don't care which theory you decide to beleive, like and accept, but either they are both valid even if not proven or they are both speculation because not proven.
That's wha scientific and data means, if you think yourself as one

Look. I'll break this down. Again.

Data : there exist 60 member guilds.
Data : these guilds are not extremely high ranked.
Data : the bonuses required to unlock 60 member guilds would cost orders of magnitude more money than that required to rank top10.
Data : these guilds have had 60 members for a very long time.
Data : the speed at which they unlocked those members is above two standard deviations faster than the top10 guilds.
Data : there exist screenshots of single players donating billions of gold in a matter of hours into these guilds.
Data : none of the players in these guilds has extremely high stats.
Data : there exist several members in these guilds who have slightly above average stats
Data : these same members also possess a statistically impossible number of honor units
Data : there exist screenshots of these guilds vaults with all bonuses unlocked and hundreds of millions of gold lying unspent
Data : there exist screenshots of members of these guilds bragging about hacking gold.

Taken collectively, along with that crazy common sense, there is a well substantiated explanation that correlates all of these data points. If it looks like a duck...

Now, at the risk of returning your ad hominem arguments, I'd like to put forth my own theory : are you a member of one of these guilds? Because you seem to be stuck on this "proof" argument. Even for capital murder, we only look for "beyond a shadow of a doubt". Which is what this is, regardless of how much you may not like it. Sorry.

Go look up what a "theory" means in the scientific community. It's not "a guess without any proof". I actually defined it verbatim earlier in this post.

I say again, the jury has returned. It's not even a question: these guilds are guilty. The only question that remains is sentencing. Which most of us feel should be of the capital variety.

As for the box events, I've personally seen the iTunes receipts(in the past, not this one.). That may not sway everyone, but it's good enough for me.

Klevito , you seem to be on the side of these 60 member guilds from your point it's acceptable to have these guilds yet if we look at FUN top guild in All wars and only now 58 members! Given that The1nONLY had a starting vault of 110 million, other were not even close to this amount so a large injection to get them above everyone else, the only other guild that comes close would be the RK before disbanding , but after the first couple of wars when most of us could only afford 45-50 members ( and yes I was in top 10 several times) these guild showed up with 60 members costing Billions...just incase Billions ! Not Millions....you do the maths on this and say its Legit? Why would someone spend literally thousands(again Thousands) of real dollars to let some random person in their Guild! Why not just buy gems with the Thousands of real dollars and get top spot.....answer inserted here.... I would not pay my real life hard earned money to have someone else take a spot if I was not Gaurenteed a top 3 position if not No#1 spot...and as for your dictionary you might want to look up wasting ? Throw real money for someone else to join and still get topp 100 ....don't think so.
Hence Shins sceptic ism and mine on these so called Legit Guilds.
But I will float this.....show me proof of a 60 member guild and I will show you a Hacker...simple as...I have photo proof do you?

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Originally Posted by Shinazueli

Now, at the risk of returning your ad hominem arguments, I'd like to put forth my own theory : are you a member of one of these guilds? Because you seem to be stuck on this "proof" argument. Even for capital murder, we only look for "beyond a shadow of a doubt".
As for the box events, I've personally seen the iTunes receipts(in the past, not this one.). That may not sway everyone, but it's good enough for me.

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Some nails, take one hit on the head to go in. Some need several hits repeatedly on the same spot, with the same movement..
That's how this is becoming.

I point west and show you a tree, and you turn in circles few times and end up looking above, surprised thinking "what is this dude smoking. A tree in the sky?
I call you and keep pointing west. "Hey Shin, there, there....The tree" and you turn left right, left, right a couple of times and look inside your pocket....... "Still no tree"

For the third (or fourth) time.....
"Shin.....and Ratma...... I am not asking for proof about 60 member guilds.
I am not asking or disputing the legitimacy of the #1 box player.
I am simply saying that it's biased and not correct when one asks for proof to a speculation of someone on one issue, but is happy to speculate without proof on another issue.

Do you see.... the tree yet, guys?

:D

Klevito I have pictures of your tree you speak of which point to blatant miss use of another system to override the games normal parameters ! Or if you wish to look for yourself at the tree or one similar , you can always Google Hacks and Cheats like others have done and abused the system to gain advantage over normal players.
Hence the Billions donated by a simple tap of a key !

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Originally Posted by klevito

Some nails, take one hit on the head to go in. Some need several hits repeatedly on the same spot, with the same movement..
That's how this is becoming.

I point west and show you a tree, and you turn in circles few times and end up looking above, surprised thinking "what is this dude smoking. A tree in the sky?
I call you and keep pointing west. "Hey Shin, there, there....The tree" and you turn left right, left, right a couple of times and look inside your pocket....... "Still no tree"

For the third (or fourth) time.....
"Shin.....and Ratma...... I am not asking for proof about 60 member guilds.
I am not asking or disputing the legitimacy of the #1 box player.
I am simply saying that it's biased and not correct when one asks for proof to a speculation of someone on one issue, but is happy to speculate without proof on another issue.

Do you see.... the tree yet, guys?

:D

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Look. We aren't asking for proof of their legitimacy. We're absolutely certain it doesn't exist. But lets just agree to disagree.

Gree's new solution to cheaters... preventing them (and everyone else) from accessing the game.

And just to put the icing on the cake, we are now battling another 60 member guild, while we struggle to find a way to maximize our wins for the stupid guild quest. They have 12 more members than us... Which pretty much means we are screwed.

Thanks Gree. We were allowed to lose 3 wars over the entire weekend and still get the prize, and we will have lost 2 to 60 member guilds in ~45 minutes. Really appreciate that anti-cheating work you guys are doing. It's awesome.

And of course they both have level 10 walls.

These guilds are having a detrimental affect on fair playing and paying guilds every SECOND you continue to fail to Do Your Job. Ban them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a guild with only 44 members trying our best to save money for bonuses, we are more than surprised about the existence of 60 member guilds.

Can we ask Gree to publish a list of those guilds, for all to see?

I would not comment on some of the philosophical arguments, that frankly is best ignored.
This is not a legal court requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt. There seems to be more than sufficient evidence to suggest, on the balance of probability, that such 60 member guilds require deep scrutiny.

Gree owes it to every guild that has gem players, to provide reasonable and acceptable assurance that these guilds have been audited.

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Originally Posted by Crusader Shout

As a guild with only 44 members trying our best to save money for bonuses, we are more than surprised about the existence of 60 member guilds.

Can we ask Gree to publish a list of those guilds, for all to see?

I would not comment on some of the philosophical arguments, that frankly is best ignored.
This is not a legal court requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt. There seems to be more than sufficient evidence to suggest, on the balance of probability, that such 60 member guilds require deep scrutiny.

Gree owes it to every guild that has gem players, to provide reasonable and acceptable assurance that these guilds have been audited.

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F that. They owe it to every single guild in the game. But the rest I agree with.

This guild quest almost seems like it is designed benefit cheater guilds. They may not be able to put up CP to score top 3/10/25 prizes, but 60 members gives them a huge advantage over many legit medium-strength guilds.

But then I guess the legit guilds have to out-gem them if they want win.

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Originally Posted by E-I

But then I guess the legit guilds have to out-gem them if they want win.

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And, you nailed it. The numero uno reason why 60 member Guilds are not being dealt with. Also, because there are too many legit spenders with deep pockets and pride issues to really hit GREE where it hurts if they all could agree to it.

(cough)

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Originally Posted by jonny0284

And, you nailed it. The numero uno reason why 60 member Guilds are not being dealt with. Also, because there are too many legit spenders with deep pockets and pride issues to really hit GREE where it hurts if they all could agree to it.

(cough)

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Yes! Many Hacker's guilds on top 100 positions nowadays...

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Originally Posted by nemesiakis

This more than clear that GREE will not do anything to solve the obvious problems of hackers.
All players see daily powers and achievements impossible for their level. In the top chests events get more than 200 awards, or guilds whole earning a million points in each battle. From all this I can provide screenshots if I may, although I know that you will permit your shame because it would air.
If we can see every day ... it is clear that GREE is either blind or is maimed.
Propose any of these alternatives:
* 1.-Create a thread to publicly claim hackers.
* 2.-Pass the hack everyone so we can all use.
* 3.-Playing tetris, much more serious than this.
It is clear that this message is for users of this forum because I doubt that GREE has an interest.

Pd: Sorry for my bad English, I'm still studying ...

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I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of money some players spend on this game if you don't think a million points is achievable in a single battle.

It's rather difficult to understand what you're saying... However, It seems to me that your images are solid evidence that you can't see he's joking. At least, I don't see anything else other than someone dreaming about having a trick to get free gems. He spend 1200+ gems and got a reward.. where's the smoking gun ?

Would be nice when the 60 member guilds are dismantled soon, even with the GUILD quests they benefit too much of all rewards..

Disturbing message concerning "MW top faction" on Twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PUNS_MOLE

I don't know how real and true all of this is, maybe MW players can bring some light about the subject..

@nemesiakis - I'm assuming English is not your primary language, but I think I understand the gist of your post.

Again, I think you seriously underestimate the amount of money the top 1000 spenders spend on this game weekly. Many people took part in the bonus program long before guilds were formed and you have to spend $500 in a month just to get in the first tier.

As for your screenshots, the written word often loses its real meaning when tone is not clearly defined or colloquialisms are used with those who aren't familiar with them. I'd agree with Sydonia's assessment of those screenshots.

I'm not saying people don't cheat because I'm certain there are those who do. I'm just saying the evidence you have brought forth doesn't prove that.

Agreed KJ. I think most is lost in translation, as i have both these units posted yet am i a Hacker? doubt it if i was someone forgot to tell me, i did still spend over 1200 gems in this rerward , but it was not my intention as i was questing at the time and needed the end unit thus the Fire Phoenix was a bonus and as most of us are aware its hard to keep track of the amount you have spent if you qualify for the bonus gems but given that Gree have stated that there os no longer an issue with Gem hacks but as for gold/honour and energy ....still on the fence
and still no reply from Mods on this...eith been dismissed with staffing restructure or dont want to comment anymore, and jsut hoping we all go away

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Originally Posted by nemesiakis

You're right, English is not my native language and use the google translate, but sometimes do not translate very well ..:o
Just say one more thing, it gives me the laugh of what you say: I really think there are people who spend real money on this game? $ 500 a month??;););)
I do not know if you think we're *******s because in my life I'm going to believe that someone spends real money on this nonsense, let alone $ 500!! ahhahaha petite outrage!
Do not understand why you think people spend real money and I still lie about this issue ...
Clearly Gree does nothing because he can not!! Your hand is not control certain holes of play and never be able to cover them. The only way to obviate them and keep people playing is trying to convince us, like you, that people spend money and this is a very serious game. Perhaps hahahahaa tengais luck and some idiot can believe it. (Meanwhile, the other players will continue to use the full power trick every 20 minutes ...)
Just see the results of the survey: 90% think Gree does nothing and there are tricks and 50% is likely to stop playing this:confused: ... What a waste of time.
Goodbye friend, leave this game over. Here you will be left only do you spend the real money and those who aportais empty words.

PS: I will continue posting on forums and blogs all the tricks you can do in this game.:cool:

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you are quite funny. but care to explain to me why ive seen so many itunes receipts from friends and trust completely who have spend real money on this game. more money than you laugh about.
Care to explain to me how Gree earns money if ppl dont spend on this game?
If ppl dont spend on this game, gree would have pulled the plug.

If you consider this game nonsense, delete it, stop whining and move on. Ppl make choices every day. if they are not yours who are you to judge.

I think, everyone is entitled to have their opinion how they like to play any game.

One goes to the pub, drinks his beer, the other goes to the casino and the other donate some money to the Church or homeless people..., maybe go to a football match or any other...

What is the most important, that the one who spend his/her money enjoy in what he/she is doing.
Kingdom Age is a multiplayer game, which the players need to follow up on almost daily basis, therefore this game ( or any other multiplayer online game) is a part of your life. We make friends in the game and enjoy our contacts together.

Therefore, why not spend some coins for something what most of us play on daily basis, when you have the money and feel good about spending it for something you like, well than it's ok!

USD500,- is a lot of money in 1 month for a game, but well..when someone earns USD10.000 a month, the USD500,- is just a small part for them!
For every player a budget,

FYI,
quote:

Dated: Tuesday, May 8th, 2012
They only arrived on mobile platforms last August with the debut of Crime City, a brand that the company had already put on the Facebook platform. That set them up to have a $2 million quarter between July and September of last year. Then they launched Modern War in November and the two titles got them to a $6 million quarter during Christmas. Finally, Kingdom Age, launched last month, got them to a $12 million quarter.

Just after Kingdom Age launched, I spoke with Funzio’s vice president of business development Jamil Moledina. Even though the game was downloaded at roughly the same pace that the company’s earlier games were, engagement was up. Both Modern War and Kingdom Age got to 1 million downloads in about the same time. But Kingdom Age saw the equivalent of 93 years of gameplay, while Modern War saw about 50 years of gameplay in its first five days.
un-quote:

And the Hacker and cheats destroyed it in less than 1 week, hooray for Gree , allowing this to contribute to the countless monies thrown at this game whilst the unsavory ran rampant through the game causing kaos and making people leave in their droves ... Respected players with over a years experience in playing , advising, coaching , teaching Noobies the ropes and how to obtain further goals, such a waste of numerous talents, with all the latest upgrades and patches put into this game not 1 word from the Mods about all the Hackers, Cheats and Hacker Guilds.....shame on you Gree.
Blatant mistrust of the paying player!
I am now on the downside of purgatory ! And to be accosiated with a game that has been run rife with Cheaters and Hackers for so long is appalling !
You may now turn the Servers off! It's only those can afford to spend Thousands a month to stay in front of all the Cheaters and Hacker that play apart from those that took the liberty of undermine what was once a Great Game !
Countless posts and people shouting for fairness fell on deaf ears and Gree did as little as possible. Never looking after those that paid the way, but looking out for those that roughted the system.
Gree= Game Over

No matter what the formula or methods you use to play this game to build your kingdom, stats, army or equipment you won't come close to beating FUN or RK. Our main question should be: why are we even trying?

Gree's the true winner here. The house always win!

Good luck to you all.

I think going after the 60 person guilds os not the right approach. Many of us have moved around to different guilds over the last several wars. And lets face it, having a legit 56 member guild or a hacked 60 person guild really dosent make much difference as there are always several members that don't pull their weight anyway. GREE just needs to remove the individual hackers and the game and guilds will take care of themselves

I typed a long response, but Johan covered it - $500 for some may be a big deal. For others, it's not.

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Originally Posted by yaz

I think going after the 60 person guilds os not the right approach. Many of us have moved around to different guilds over the last several wars. And lets face it, having a legit 56 member guild or a hacked 60 person guild really dosent make much difference as there are always several members that don't pull their weight anyway. GREE just needs to remove the individual hackers and the game and guilds will take care of themselves

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i disagree......

either you are a member of one of these guilds and dont want to be booted from a guild you dont have to work to unlock...i am not calling you a hacker....i have no proof!!!! I am Guessing

Or you dont understand what people are trying to say.......60 Member guilds have been around since before the first war.

how did they get there ...Gree wants us to believe they are legit...when guilds like FUN and RK...were no where near 60 members and clearly they are the biggest spenders.....

I find it HARD to believe that someone spent that kind of money to unlock an entire guild of members and bonuses.....not when that money could have purchased gems......i am not saying impossible...just hard to believe!!

Edit....also we are getting to the point when other guilds really are getting there the legit way so now the water becomes muddy and a clear picture is gone.

Also i will agree that every war someone has RL issue and cannot particapate......however the guilds that had 60 members since the beginning have advantages that other guilds did not. Having 60 members makes a difference!!!

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Originally Posted by nemesiakis

It is clear that you are always beyond good and evil.
Of course there are many people who can spend 500 dollars a month here, and 500 day, and 500 an hour.
But it is not so stupid to spend it here as much as we want to believe. I am quite sure that you and your team usais tricks and hacks regularly, because clearly you're not spending the 500 or a year ...
It is more than clear that you are an advocate of Gree but your explanations are groundless, and because you're in a good clan or you think someone important here. It's really sad and shows that you have no credibility.
You can believe Gree and continue sucking the ass, actually look to their own team and leave only evident once more its weaknesses and embarrassments. It's very noticeable that there are a fair player ...
Cheer up kid, sure soon you hire for your company, even for her cheerleading team.

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Lol. Tencharacters

@Nemesiakis,

Find yourself a girlfriend and get a real life, water will always find its way...but you will find out when you grow up.

Nemesiakis,
It is hard to believe I have a Mercedes Benz, a Corvette, and home a house with a pool. But I do! And yes I spend money on the game. Here is picture proof for all 4. :cool:
Attachment 4081

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Originally Posted by Rastlin

Nemesiakis,
It is hard to believe I have a Mercedes Benz, a Corvette, and home a house with a pool. But I do! And yes I spend money on the game. Here is picture proof for all 4. :cool:
Attachment 4081

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HAHA and you Pay to play ...must be a Millionaire Rastlin..congrats

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Originally Posted by Ratma2001

HAHA and you Pay to play ...must be a Millionaire Rastlin..congrats

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HAHA you must be too! How much did you used to Pay to play before you stopped due to hackers? :p

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Originally Posted by Rastlin

HAHA you must be too! How much did you used to Pay to play before you stopped due to hackers? :p

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around $700 per month !, i have 3 cars 2 Motorbikes a house on 3 acres but NO Pool ;-( , now that i have stopped spending real money on this game i should be able to afford my New Shiny pool !! haha
Cant see the Forest cause of the Tree's !!
biting the hand that feed them !

I've heard of factions that spend over a thousand dollars a month in gold!

I'm not a member of 60-member guild, but I know someone who is. The original founder quit and reentered his guild under different characters, so all traces of his mega-donations are long gone by now. So, now we have another "legit" guild with all bonuses maxed out and without any traces of the original hacker who started it.

It was fine by me when these guilds were somewhere toward the bottom of the pool, and no serious KA player would ever consider joining one of these. But now they're raising their heads, attracting stronger players, and slowly creeping into top 50 and top 25 (like the guild that I described earlier). And when my guild gets displaced form it's current position by such guilds, than that will be the end of KA for me (if not sooner).

Please look at the requiretments thread people are advertising for max upgrades on their bonuses,i know that just one top guild have those bonuses unlocked and that is the only guild that did it legit way!

I want a fast action to shut down the guilds with bonuses maxed out,especialy those that are not in top 10,they dont have iph that big or stats to defend their income from raiding or attacks,so it is imposible for them to max the bonuses..And its slap in face to advertise that for all other guilds that are trying to upgrade bonuses legit way.That is the same as a thief stole a money and then brag to others...
@ Admin you whil easily find in requiretment threads who are those guilds and investigate them.
Hope i see some justice here and fast reaction from Gree to ban those guilds

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Originally Posted by DragCro

Please look at the requiretments thread people are advertising for max upgrades on their bonuses,i know that just one top guild have those bonuses unlocked and that is the only guild that did it legit way!

I want a fast action to shut down the guilds with bonuses maxed out,especialy those that are not in top 10,they dont have iph that big or stats to defend their income from raiding or attacks,so it is imposible for them to max the bonuses..And its slap in face to advertise that for all other guilds that are trying to upgrade bonuses legit way.That is the same as a thief stole a money and then brag to others...
@ Admin you whil easily find in requiretment threads who are those guilds and investigate them.
Hope i see some justice here and fast reaction from Gree to ban those guilds

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Perhaps by year 2015...

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Originally Posted by Jeshu

Perhaps by year 2015...

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That's pretty optimistic for Gree.

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Originally Posted by the_bob

That's pretty optimistic for Gree.

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Correct , it will be fixed when Gree flick switch on Servers then Game Over !
Then we can all get our lives back and go outdoors again and get some fresh air, see how the world has changed in the last 2 years and so forth.

Since a few weeks there a a lot of accounts starting day 1 and develop to lvl 200 in 1 or two days. No real kingdoms but a lot of money and high stats. Impossible to get this on a normal way. Someone uses a hack to 'produce' gold for his guild. Since I hate to fight against lvl 10 walls it would be great if any admin could look into this.

Yes I seen this too getting high stats from hacking one unit.

the new guild boosts have made hacking gold useful again. I think we will see guilds with all of the boosts maxed out. Very annoying to those of us that do it the right way.