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this is a good but horribly executed movement so far o.O if u want results u got to show resiliance. i.e. top 10 do a surprise sit out, dont alert lower then top 10 guilds and sit back and see if people will really go crazy and try to fill your shoes. IMHO i doubt the high will be more then 6 mil. u might get a straggler whos been building up or gearing for it like the last war, but doubt it after being demoralized by DK.
nope, as i said above, even if you kick before awards come out they still get them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bosskiller
I think I saw pale rider mention ...if you are not online during the redemption period is the only way you would not get rewards.
U2EZ support Majestic all the way! also the +11 Movement!
are you in the chat?Quote:
Originally Posted by leems
I was there, and yes there was a damn good chance if 10+ freeloading scammers would have fought instead of running their mouths and not fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixZee
I understand the proposition and I don't like it as a GM or a player. The only thing at the GM's discretion should be setting a minimum score before a war starts. This selective reward/punishment concept can and will be abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly333
When you have at least one GM scamming a member out of their account when they tried to trade through binding, which has happened, then the whole idea of GMs being able to arbitrarily and unilaterally withhold war rewards from players becomes such a clearly bad idea that it shouldn't even have to be discussed.
The demands should be simple.
War rewards should be better, because 11+ guilds pay good money for 11-100.
The kingdom should expand with new areas, per the poll that Elita posted.
And cheaters should be more aggressively pursued, since there are good, legit players.
All the other stuff is tertiary wishful thinking.
My thoughts exactly. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangaroeland
That was my point. Of course GREE can ban people on forums for any reason and no reason. Just like doctors can refuse to see patients for any reason and no reason (except discrimination). What I was trying to say was that it seemed like that rule was tied into the forum rules sticky for exactly what people are advocating now: a gem boycott.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pale Rider
It is unlikely that GREE will ban people for no reason (even though they can), and it is also unlikely that a gem boycott will happen. However, it is still rather unsettling that even talking about gem boycotts (which would be used as a statement to facilitate the advancement of customer input) would likely result in bans.
Nonetheless, there have been no bans for gem boycott talks so far, so let's cross our fingers I guess.
Hit the nail on the head with the GM topic. One spoils it for the whole bunch, and that one has already happened, so why would they then give GM's even more power to screw people over?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
Better rewards, we all want. But stop saying people pay good money for 11-100. Guilds placing in top 100 is laughable at best, as many can do that through free energy alone. Sure, the rewards could be better, but those that do spend, aren't breaking any banks to place top 100, that is for sure. Yes, come back with the reasoning that "if the rewards were better, they would spend more..." Yeah, and I can also tell you that I'll do a better job if I get a raise first. That isn't how it works. You put in the work first, then get the rewards, not the other way around.
Kingdom expansion, new areas... my only true concern with this is how will they approach it. Obviously increasing the difficulty, and then the craftable rewards would have to be better than currently craftable 3* armors. But, how far do they go? Are we talking on par with epic bosses? 6 Month ago bosses? How much of a step forward will that cause for the stat creep? And to touch on the poll, it should have been plainly obvious that said poll Elita posted was just in response to people saying "can we consolidate things and get a poll going", nothing more. There was never speak of "whichever gets the most votes will be acted upon" yet people seem to think otherwise.
You could place top 100 on free energy, if every member participated very well AND top 100 guilds didn't get matched with top 20 guilds and their major gemspenders.
People in the top of the top don't seem to understand what it's like out on the fringe and beyond. My guild, for instance, has about 10 solid gemspenders who could throw down a few hundred gems per war. We can't compete with the top 20. We get matched up with them and we'll get maybe 10-20k points and no bonus. But if we gem matched with a comparable guild, we can post 30-80k or more.
Just because we spend a collective few hundred bucks, and not a few thousand, doesn't mean we shouldn't get better rewards. An EB+ we got for free two months ago is an insult.
So, you have 10 or so people that can throw down a couple hundred gems per war. Sounds to me like you have a 10 spenders and 30 f2p'ers. If you paired up with 30 other spenders, you easily could compete with top 20 and the rewards could be a little better for you. Or your guild isn't participating well, meeting minimums etc. That is a you/your guild problem, not a game problem. You need to find a better group of people more committed to winning. You can't do well against other top tier guilds, or when you get paired against top 20 guilds. Well guess what? You DON'T DESERVE TO BE TOP TIER THEN! You deserve to be where you are.
I have been on the fringe. I can remember multiple battles playing with different Rainbow guilds where we easily could have won vs. similar level guilds, but we were either outnumbered, or people simply gave up. I can remember battles with Centurions, Bad Touch, Kohona, Untouchables, DPA and many more. Did we deserve to win in those cases? Hell no. They played better, gemmed more, and our guild gave up. Could we have won? If people tried, yes. Did our guild save up more gems for strip battles and still end up top 10? Luckily, yes. Was I happy about the way we won. Honestly, no. God, if only you could see the Line chat logs of those wars, you would think I hated the guild I was in. If you have to depend on last minute strip battles to win, you don't deserve to win, period. I've always held that opinion. That is why I hate the fact you can still strip, and match up with whoever you want to as long as you know what you are doing. This was a big reason as to why I quit. Too few people had the mindset of "go hard or go home" and instead had the "lets wait until the end and get a friendly match and score big points." F that. Rigging the game makes it 100x less fun. If you can't win or hold your own against your peers, guess what, they aren't your peers, and you don't deserve to win.
You want to have a laid back, casual, non-gem committed guild, but then want better rewards based on a few people who decide to spend. You really can't do both. That is like in WoW, saying "sure, we'll have a progression raid group for current content, but you can just show up whenever, no biggie." It doesn't work. You need committed people, willing to invest the time and effort necessary to get the job done. 10 spenders and 30 f2p'ers aren't tipping the scale. Get over it.
Its like the person that said they score 500k points per war, but yet they weren't competing with DK, or on their level. If you, as a player, are spending enough to score 500k points, and your guild isn't top 10, you're in the wrong guild. Plain and simple. Getting 40 like minded people together, that is when you make waves. 40x500k = 20 mil. 20 mil = Top 5 anywhere, if not Top 2. That is a statement.
Buster what better rewards would you get from top 25 than top 100? That is the whole point. And for someone who is retired from the game you still seem to care an awful lot about what happens
See these rewards gree? Why spend when we can get better stuff for free. The EB+ armors are 350/150 better than war rewards
doesnt look like youve been heard or even considered, 11+ is still outdated EB+, some boosts, and a single prince key o.O well i guess Ill sit back and watch you all let drop your wallets further solidifying why Gree shouldnt change a thing........for the 11+
Aaaannnnnddddd....we get Blackfrost as an 11+ reward AGAIN.
It wasn't good three or four months ago when they last used it as a war reward, and it's even worse now.
Herein lies the problem.
I support the 11+ Movement !
Guys with only 3 gemmers , full guild activity and good tactic our guild get verry clouse to top 25. Yes we was in top 50 and more that 1 time. But why to be so active ? For what to spend our money ? I will have same 4*+ gear even if will get in top 10000 , beat the lv 60 EB anyhaw , have same missions on map ... so , why to try so hard ? The difference betwin top10 and the rest is abbisal. Not even with heavy gemming from all 40 members of the guild will NOT be possible EVER to beat DK or other top 10 guids. Gear is far too strong and we can't match that. We NEED better rewards to give us a hope for better and a hand to get it. A MOTIVATION !
Why don't GREE put a rule like : The top 3 of a war can't get in top 50 of next war indiferent of points they do ? or at least out of top 25 !
Increase the % of chest for epics. 2 times i open 40 and get only 2*,3* crap (1 was on winter chest x5 WTF !!! ). Absolutly i will NOT open chests again until sistem change !!!
I'm not surprize many from the old vets leave this game.
I'm going to assume since we were contacting them today it's a lil hard to expect anything today. I can tell by your replies to this thread that you are not in the group chat and therefore have no idea what we are trying to doQuote:
Originally Posted by leems
Not up to your usual reasoning standards. The analogy with a raise is terrible. If you told your workers whoever works the hardest this month gets a raise -- thats analogous. What we have now is a hope that people will work harder even though their pay gets worse every month and you go further and say, you shouldn't complain about it if you don't work harder first. Remind me never to work for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
Inherent in a thread posted by a game admin or developer suggesting new content ideas is the suggestion that one or more might be implemented.
Agree the expansion is a black hole in terms of details.
Maybe if more people asked to be in the group to see we are using multiple different tactics it would help the naysayers understand
Ignore the naysayers, they exist but to say nay and offer nothing of value. They would only annoy you in your group chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cobaltss
ROFLMAO!!! (*wiping away tears*)
Oh, this is PRECIOUS. All the 'Daddy loves ME best" ; "We're #1 and always will be", "I don't have an ego - YOU have an ego!". Endless humor.
We support:
* Better rewards for top 50 guilds in war (the incentive to Gree is what? You're going to spend out the Wazoo this war for something you already have)
* New map levels - (eh, if it's in the dev budget sure. Otherwise - nah. App lifecycle is too short)
* GM ability to kick leechers without reward. (Propensity for abuse is high. Yeah, I know what your oing to say - save it)
* Additional things to do for level 100+ (such as? Want a condo?)
* HC only to have declare ability. (GM's will be very upset)
* Additional LT quests to be added. (again with expensive development? Why? You already get wars. Be happy with that)
* Hacking prevention and stricter checks (Define 'hacking'. Trust me, we're PCI compliant - and that's all that *really* matters)
Watching the know-it-all-ego's tout their superiority in all things is also deliciously wonderful.
Here this, Minions:
- nothing will change - and you'll like it
- we'll offer the same crap as always and you'll spend a ransom for it, because God knows someone ELSE can't get it!
- nothing will change unless already planned for.
....end of line.
Slayer + naysayer = nayslayer
You're putting the power in the leecher's hand, which is worse than putting it in the hands of the GM. At the very least, the GM has no personal profit motivation to deny rewards. If anything, it hurts him, because he'll lose valuable contributing members if he denies them their reward. The leecher, on the other hand, has everything to gain by leeching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
The difference between account trade scamming is that the person doing the scamming gets rewarded with a better account. What does the GM gain if he denies a reward? I get that there will still be a small number of GMs that abuse the power, but it'll be way better than leaving the power in the hands of leechers. For anyone who argues for leechers, I can only imagine why...
Ouch, you wound me. I'll get on that blog right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangaroeland
Just to recap, so that I present your points accurately on my blog:
You and your guild won't stop spending, even though you don't like the reward structure. For some unknown reason, it's impossible. Almost like a strong gravitational pull that takes your money into the hands of GREE.
You want change, but the most you'll do is rate the game a 1 star and prevent people from joining. You'll follow Mikie's lead, who in turn will do nothing but rate the game a 1 star.
You don't like it when people spend more, score more, and are cooler than you, unless they're quiet about it.
You think blogs are stupid and you like kangaroos. Did I miss anything?
My blog is going to go viral!
I'm retired from spending. I still play casually, collect money, buy elemental bonuses for a guild full of non-active people who don't bother me on line, or whine because they didn't get good rewards from war because they're level 20 and don't know any better. Also, someone has to keep the forums in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cobaltss
How is my job analogy terrible? What the 11+ is asking for is EXACTLY like asking for a raise before doing the work. You want them to pony up better rewards before spending money on it. Sol Invictus's signature shows exactly that. "No more gems until War rewards are worth it" = no extra work until I get a raise that I feel warrants extra work. You want the raise before you do extra.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pale Rider
The point is, there isn't a big vast group fighting for Top 10. Those who are in the running for it every war are pretty well known by the first half of day 1. Everyone else craps out, and quits playing. If you had more people fighting for top 10, you'd have a solid leg to stand on in the fight to say "we all spend money and get crap rewards." But that isn't the case. Usually its 11 or 12 guilds fighting for top 10. Those extra 2 who don't get the rewards are the only ones who should be complaining. The ones that give up and crap out... yeah, you REALLY deserve better rewards for deciding top 10 is out of reach, but you can now coast to Top 25 and deserve something for it.
Yeah, those are the people who decides "this is too hard, I don't want to do any extra work, but I still want a raise" while my other staff are increasing sales and selling our featured product like its going out of style. I reward the people who do a good job. They get the schedule they want, the sections they want, the closing shifts. Those who rise and go above and beyond and do the things I ask without me even having to ask. They do the work and get the rewards. And I continue to reward them. The people that give up mid-month/contest? They don't get anything except being one step closer to the chopping block. And I never said anything about the pay getting worse. Maybe you're in a job where you get paid less and less for the same work, but mine sure isn't.
You sir are the one who has the bad analogy.
Also, ASSUMING that just because there is a poll in a random thread suggesting new ideas by a developer or mod means that there will be said "winner" implemented, is ASSUMING. The poll was created as a way to consolidate the suggestions into the more popular, and letting people vote on which one was most important to them. If the poll included "1000 free gems every month" and that was the winner, would you still expect them to include it? I know you have better reasoning skills than to assume it was a guaranteed implementation of one or more items. It was a wishing thread at best.
Your analogy is backwards, homie. Also, we don't need an analogy, all we need is reality.
As to your analogy, it would be accurate to say that GREE expects payment before doing the work. We would be refusing to pay until something of value is provided. You don't get paid on Monday. You get paid on Friday.
We are the employer. GREE is the employee. Check yourself, silly.
But we don't need an analogy. The reality is that GREE is in the business of selling games and we are in the business of buying them. Don't give me this load of crap about us not wanting to work for it, as if GREE is doing us some kind of favor by making the top 10 rewards good and any other reward bad.
You're such an experienced businessman, you oughta know how free enterprise works.
It ain't "you gotta prove you're good enough to earn the product I want to sell."
What a dumb analogy. Come on.
Reality is that market forces send signals to businesses on what to do and what not to do.
We send a signal saying "We're OK paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and GREE will keep them coming.
We send a signal saying "We are not paying for an EB+ we got for free three months ago" and, if they're smart, they'll stop doing that.
All your points are true except one thing: if those guilds spend more for these rewards, GREE will not change them. In real life, yes, you do woek and get rewarded. But in the game, it may not make a difference regardless. May as well save your money.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
No, MY analogy is not backwards. You want something BEFORE doing anything for it. As to Gree being the employee and us being the employer. Well, they sure do seem to be the ones running the show, so they have the ability to say "We want a raise before putting out the better rewards." You know, more people actually spending money, and they'd make it worthwhile. If I can free energy my way to 2nd tier rewards, why wouldn't I? Why would I pay money when I can get it for free? The inmates are clearly running the asylum in this case. You expect Gree to just say "hey, lets give away all these great rewards and then they'll come running, and hopefully pay. Clearly, you're being horrible bosses and continuing to let your employees get away with whatever they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus
Blah blah... to your final statements:
Of the last 2 examples, you're doing the first. Maybe not YOU specifically, you big bad non-gem buying trailblazer you... but your 11+ movement can't seem to get it through their heads to do the second as a whole, so you WILL CONTINUE to get EB+ as rewards, because you don't have the balls to make a statement with your wallets. All you have now is your mouths. And I'm not hearing a whole lot being done. Your market forces are non-existent.
Yes, the whole "spend more, get more" idea is a grand hope of mine, and mine alone apparently, but things we know so far: people aren't STOPPING spending, and they haven't changed anything, so who is to know if it will work either way? Seriously try to gather people to NOT spend. Make yourselves heard. What is the worst that can happen? A few people don't get their war epics, and you'll see if all those other magic "big spenders" in the top 100 that spend SOOOO much money (sarcasm), will actually step up to replace you in gems spent, points, etc. You'll figure out a lot more about the game and its players by nutting up and NOT spending for a war or two that just talking about wanting change. Am I wrong?
http://i.minus.com/iLBs9uhnBZAoe.jpg
Guilds get rewards after war. Not before.Quote:
Originally Posted by busteroaf
You are wrong. I am right.
You're grasping at straws. Stop shilling for GREE.
Let's be fair here, it's pretty clear he means that only officers, HC and up, should be able to declare. Which is a completely valid request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer 1
Wow.. I read this and almost fell off my chair... Sensible words and exactly why this was on the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by infliction
However in your following post you seem to think that I and other who support are willing to do nothing... This is certainly not the case. We simply refuse to take a course of action that we feel unnecessary.... Or that would be detremental to a company who's product we use constantly...
Clearly you read my 2nd post as you refer to snippets but you seem to misunderstand the lovely bits I put in capitals just to ensure that you were able to comprehend without having to overly concern yourself with content... (Just assuming from the way you approach the game that this would be for the best for you to understand)
I made it pretty clear that this was at least going to remain respectable and offer GREE a descent and fair way to listen to its customers ideas and by our justified change of ratings a small gesture simply to show just how many unhappy long term spenders feel strongly enough as GREE customers to do thier little part. Of course we are aware that what follows is down to GREE themselves. They could EASILY make many people happy and get some spending again and others spending more on their product by introducing some small changes to the current set up in what is one of their most popular revenue streams..
Sales through Services provided is clearly something that GREE need to give some focus, nobody doubts that but your blind assumption that companies (any company) don't want to provide the best overall product available making their customers happy and generating further revenue for doing that is laughable. I've worked at a high level of business through a variety of channels in a multinational corporation for a long time. One thing always rings true...
We want to offer the best product on the market in our chosen area.
We want our customers to be happy with the service and/ or products we provide and share within thier circles
We want to develop a well known trusted brand with a positive reputation..
We want to make as much money as possible from said product..
It's a tried and tested method that's worked since the development of free markets.
Why anyone would think gree to be any different is beyond me! I'm glad many of you are simply able to laugh these jokers trying to put a negative spin on what we're doing.
I mean flick through a few posts... It'll never work and you're dumb for trying or supporting... but this would be good...
Or nobody will ever listen unless you resort to completely ruining the game or boycotting the revenue reducing justification for further spending on said revenue stream... But if it does work... I'd like to see it done this way...
We'll stick to our morals and we will stick together and hopefully soon enough GREE will support those of us here for the right reasons... I'm still trying to make contact at a reasonable level so let's not give up hope guys! I'll feedback as and when I get anything of relevance :) for now just ignore the idiots. Stick to what we planned & let's see what happens from there...
Thanks,
Mikie
lol. if you increase it any higher too many ppl will start getting epics. the game is already flooded with epics.whats the point of having an epic if everyone has epics? no advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZERO_07
Everyone should add some comedy to there posts so it is fun to read.
Very well put Mikie. It's seems some people think the only thing we are doing is down rating in play store and then whining on the forum. This is by no means the case. All of us that play this game want the same basic things to be added. We all love the game and would like to see it last longer and continue to improve. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that
For the record then, because I stand with you and I've sided with both ya'll and the other guy, even though he did deride me...but I'm not sure what exactly ya'll are doing other than downrating and coming to the forums? Mikie, though I support him in Majestic and respect his leadership in that last war...has said he isn't supporting boycotting or not spending, so what else is there?Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cobaltss
Help me and the others understand. I'm supporting the overall goals and the movement, but I'm the type that thinks beating your chest is pointless without meaningful action, and I just don't see an occasional 1-star buried amidst a sea of good reviews (at most recent check) doing much good.
Case in point; Mikie still trying to make contact with someone at a level able to do anything. I'd love if it he made contact with someone who is willing to speak for the company, but as someone whose watched this happen in a few other cell games I became overly invested in...it's not going to happen. I've seen only ONE company that brought out a community relations person to speak ongoing with the community as a result.
What a waste, the idea sounds good about the "movement" but all here on the forum played the game long enough to know that greed doesn't care what you are demanding. Also, people will still buy gems so no point in starting this. Eh id you guys succeed then that would be awesome but 10 times out of 10 greed won't change anything
Just editted it due to information which i wasnt aware off before i retired as 2nd in command.Quote:
Originally Posted by a MenTaL CaSe
Conquering Knights?
Master Shake was one of the first people I brought into the room, I thought.
If your GM is not in there, it's not because s/he wasn't invited or isn't welcome. I didn't invite GMs. I just found anyone I could get a hold of from each guild. Could be a GM. Could be a Commander. I have no idea.
The information didnt cross my attention. I was about to edit topic. Cheers :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Invictus