I don't have to. The fact that this thread is still alive suits my purposes.
I don't have to. The fact that this thread is still alive suits my purposes.
It's not really an improvement on your last post to clarify that in your view it's only the terms of service that make an equivalence between a building spreadsheet and a database snoop. This alone should suffice to say your read of the TOS is absurd. Setting a timer to collect buildings/open boxes isn't even the same sort of thing as accessing game databases to get info on other players that the game interface won't give you, and whose hiddenness indeed is the basis for PVP. Like I said, this is sophistry designed to muddy what is clear to others, and (I suspect) still is to you. But your words speak for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
This has already been explained on the very first page. It completely changes the nature of robbing, or of scouting in wars, if some players can rapidly and at no cost find good targets and avoid bad ones. There too I see you showed up to provide a response that engaged only superficially with the substance, while making ostentatious declarations about how this stuff doesn't matter anyway. For something that doesn't "matter", and that seems pretty dodgy on the face of it, you sure spend a lot of time defending it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
The top syndicates already know who the good targets are in all the other syndicates. The database is pointless and doesn't give out any pertinant info.
Argument really isn't what it is used for. It is that it exists.
If no advantage is given why is it still being used?
Did I read right earier that beardy got banned?
Who says it is? That's all supposition by the OP. Matt has stated several times that Rogues - the only syn who are acknowledged users of such data, collected by a now former member for purposes of winkling out cheats - are no longer using the information.
I'm pretty sure everyone has said it isn't still being used.
From the forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
My info was mined and posted with accurate data in mid July, by beardy then a member of rogues. What the consequences for him....can't say. He is no longer in rogues and I was told that his account was frozen by Matt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sister morphine
Maybe beardy can post here as I know he has an account and has viewed my profile.
I thought they said from the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by sister morphine
Matt froze his Account or told you he had his account frozen?
Matt told me his account was frozen by gree. I turned in a ticket after beardy posted all of my information on my wall in July.
You have a thoroughly bizarre, and frightening, belief in how legal documents ought to be interpreted.Quote:
It's not really an improvement on your last post to clarify that in your view it's only the terms of service that make an equivalence between a building spreadsheet and a database snoop. This alone should suffice to say your read of the TOS is absurd.
It absolutely does not.Quote:
It completely changes the nature of robbing, or of scouting in wars, if some players can rapidly and at no cost find good targets and avoid bad ones.
I could tell you off the top of my head a fairly accurate approximation of the stats and IPH of near on every member of the top 3. The scouting process if done manually takes about 3 minutes the first time you fight a given team.
And again, any 3rd party app that allows sharing of scouting information between teams has the exact effect you are claiming is so unbalancing. To clarify: No, I am not placing moral equivalence between methods, simply stating that if you believe that the effect is the concern then other methods can do the same thing. Furthermore, the other methods are actually being used, and widely. As opposed to the database, which is not now, nor ever has been used for these purposes.
Because it affects something that does matter - customer service response times. If people start flooding support with tickets about this non-issue then real tickets will take longer to get resolved. If admins waste time responding to these questions, its time they aren't responding to other relevant questions, or moderating the board, or performing the other game-related aspects of their jobs.Quote:
For something that doesn't "matter", and that seems pretty dodgy on the face of it, you sure spend a lot of time defending it.
There this player ingame, Balthazar, I heard he is the brains behind the database :)
FFS there are people who aren't in the Three Teams of Greatness. Something can matter and not affect You up in your chalet spending a thousand bucks per battle. The fact that the ten or twenty people with 5 million stats all know each other is, well, fun for you. Hope y'all have fun at your sleepovers. Down here nearer the ground, even for most top 100 or top 50 syndicates (ditto for moderately high stat players), getting scout info or good rob targets without using time/health/gold is a pretty huge deal. Believe it or not, for most teams, time is not the factor limiting how much they scout.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
The indication from Drake is that this software seems to have percolated through to the leaders of top 25 syndicates, and it seems like merely a matter of time before it diffuses down much further. All I'm asking for is that A&F or another moderator make explicit whether this sort of database access is allowed by Gree. That's it. You don't wanna know, don't read the answer. I promise I won't shout it into your ears.
Yes, A&F reading the question in my original post and giving a quick ten word answer is what's going to tip Gree service over the edge. That's the last straw that will ensure that relevant questions cannot be answered, so the board will fall to pieces, cats will breed with dogs and anarchy will be loosed upon the world. So you altruistically enter the thread, making it longer and longer to wade through, so A&F will be spared the necessity of reading it. Your solicitude and concern for A&F's eyes and typing fingers is touching.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
How many times. It is not at use in hardly any syndicates.
1-3 syndicates may of had use. But that is all. Don't believe everything someone comes on here and says with no actual evidence.
This database doesn't do anything. What about the countless group chats that involves a bunch of syndicates sharing war intel? That is much more efficient way to share intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiswoo
I don't think anything we say will stop him.
He has formed a view, a wrong view, and no matter how much he is told and how much info he is given, his view won't change. We would be better just ignoring this thread now and it'll go away. Some people are just not that bright.
Still completely missing the point. It is a question of how the information was obtained.Quote:
Originally Posted by Butt Futter
Yeah, and he's clearly demonstrated himself as a reliable source of info on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiswoo
Only info I have posted is the email sent to me by Matt Thomas. He made the claims that the info was shared with the top 25 syndicates not me.
Well, goes to show you that you can't believe everything you read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
BM just leave them to it.
They'll believe what they want. However much truth is in it.
No point giving them any help or facts because they are stuck in there ways.
No doubt, but email quotes from one of the top players of this game count for something surely. I still don't see why anyone should oppose an admin stating Gree policy on this. Zeemer's given a characteristically dissembling argument on that one. You know, he's heroically preventing people from wasting time typing ten words. If you buy that, shrug.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMoney
The fact you claim he is one of the games top players shows how little you actually know.Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiswoo
No worries. I don't. Which is why I don't believe most of the claims made in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMoney
Would leader of one of the top syndicates be more acceptable to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
You acutely get right to the meat of my comment with that. Good job sir. To me, yes, someone in a top syndicate counts as at a worthwhile first source on this, especially since nothing described seems hard to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragmondino
While I have your attention, what's your argument for why A&F or Sirius shouldn't state the answer? Are you protecting them from RSI as well?
They won't answer because they have more important things to deal with. This isn't a big matter. Is it right to do? no. Does it make a big difference? No.
They haven't hacked or cheated. It's not even in use anymore. The guy who created it is nowhere to he seen anymore.
Gree have more important things to spend there time on. Like players who hack there stats, steal other players gold, actually making the game work properly without glitches and mess ups.
Yes he is a leader of rogues, one of the higher placed syns. No he isn't one of the games top players.
Most people in the game have nicer had or will never have access to this. Your falling maybe 100-150 players tops.
Get over it.
Did you not just say that it was unfair that some people had it and others did, because it provided an unfair advantage?Quote:
FFS there are people who aren't in the Three Teams of Greatness. Something can matter and not affect You up in your chalet spending a thousand bucks per battle.
Yes, you did.Quote:
If so, we need to all know it, so we can all use these tools or generate our own. It isn't fair to have different rules for top players
So if it were being used the way you are saying it is, then it is providing the information that I just said I could provide from personal knowledge.
The information from the guy who didn't know about it - despite it being openly discussed on the forums, and everywhere else - until after the whole issue had died, tells you that its percolating down? Sorry if I don't find that to be a major issue.Quote:
The indication from Drake is that this software seems to have percolated through to the leaders of top 25 syndicates, and it seems like merely a matter of time before it diffuses down much further.
To clarify: It has not been passed around, it is not spreading. It is dead and buried, and has been for some time.
The reason claimed by MT and others for the database was that it was used to find cheaters. There was a cheater-identification chat with many of the t25 teams represented. Cheaters found via the database were posted in the chat. Suspected cheaters from the chat were checked with the database.Quote:
No doubt, but email quotes from one of the top players of this game count for something surely. I still don't see why anyone should oppose an admin stating Gree policy on this. Zeemer's given a characteristically dissembling argument on that one. You know, he's heroically preventing people from wasting time typing ten words. If you buy that, shrug.
You don't believe the claimed use, but you do believe that the people in the cheater chat had access to the whole database? I really don't understand where you're coming from. Either MT is a reliable witness, or he is not. You can't cherry pick out-of-context facts and disregard the rest.
Now you've got me completely flummoxed. I've been in 2 of the top 3 syndicates, but you're not believing a word I say.Quote:
To me, yes, someone in a top syndicate counts as at a worthwhile first source on this.
Has ANYONE here tried to argue that the mods shouldn't say something? A few people have said that green drake is an idiot for making such a big deal out of this, but that's not even close to the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiswoo
Maybe he's a social worker...Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
Sorry that you feel my questioning information being made public is idiotic. I have made every attempt to ascertain what occurred with my account privately and directly with gree. I have asked them repeatedly via email what information was available and accessible by beardy. I am not on this forum often so my apologies that this has been discussed in the past and i was unaware. Does a thread already exist where gree has commented on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
This is not something that has happened in the distant past. It is occurring now. Since I do not participate in any such information gathering please forgive me questioning how it works and what information can be obtained. Apparently the people commenting on this thread know what information is contained in such database. I do not.
It was posted what info is available
Your line of argument here is not even coherent. I said, for any tool like this the acceptability under TOS should be very clear and explicit. Otherwise only the shadier or more unscrupulous people use it. I also rejected your novel argument later that the tool doesn't matter, because top 3 syndicates are rich enough (basically) to not need it anyway. What contradiction you discern between these two statements I cannot begin to fathom. Frankly, there is none.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
When someone says (and demonstrates) that he has a tool that supports all sorts of unexpected, even nefarious uses[*], I believe him readily, especially given the demonstration. When he or someone else says later that oh no, he doesn't cheat using the tool because he's all honest and stuff, I'm less inclined to take that on faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
More to the point, when I know that this kind of access is possible, and that bad uses are not protected against, I want to know what the admins and company make of it, even though the great ones say they are pure as the driven snow.
[*] yes I know the top 3 are so rich all such tools are meaningless to them. You've said this (and apparently I'm supposed to believe either everything or nothing you say.) I hope we won't need to re-argue your ridiculous point that the ability to scout every opponent team for free doesn't matter.
In a previous discussion of this iteachem posted info on his own account gathered by this method and passed to him. I don't recall what the thread title was now, but you could try searching his posts (it was a very recent one) or pm him on the subjectQuote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
Both Zeemer and Ragmondino have said they want to avoid the admins making a statement on this, because it's such a big waste of company resources and time to state policy. Thanks for asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstik
I stopped reading at "idiotic."Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
If you're not actually reading my posts, I won't bother responding to you.
Morphine I have read that post and had commented on it as well. Actually I believe that is where I originally posted Matt's email. It was started by someone other than iteachem and he commented showing his mined data as an example of what occurs. However I do not believe anyone from admin commented on that thread either. I have attempted to search for previous posts regarding this issue but have been unsuccessful. Thank you though.Quote:
Originally Posted by sister morphine
I never said that. I purely said why they are not responding. I wish they would just so that you would stop whining.Quote:
Originally Posted by zwiswoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by iteachem