Agreed the people using this should be banned. Banned I say...
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Agreed the people using this should be banned. Banned I say...
Im sitting on the fence for this one.
A: Is it the people taking advantage of the system and having the know how? (I personally wouldnt want to be using it).
B: A problem that Gree needs to correct so this cant happen?
It is a clever tactic that may be a little bit under handed and abusing the game. No one should be playing around with the game data, collecting it, hacking it or anything from the stock standard game.
But is it a cheat? Someone has the ability to make a programme to read information without hacking the game. I believe Gree need to close this loop hole ASAP.
Its not like Gree is not making them a profit, with the amount of money people are spending. They should be able to fix this with the resources they have.
how is it not cheating? using software to skim info from the game about others which should be visible and using it to your advantage is cheating what ever way you look at it.
I would love to get this software and see what it can truly do.
Your argument is a good one. You may be making me lean towards your way of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Weston
I doubt Gree will be able to identify who uses these methods though as they arent changing the game data just reading it.
Gree need to tighten up their code around the information skiming.
Cheating or not it will be hard to catch them so they need to take control of the issue.
I dont like any form of cheating and believe anyone doing so should end up with a big banner on their profile labeling them as a cheat.
Name and shame!
I cant believe you said that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaviar
Aim bots just scan for data and send data to your pointer. Its not cheating if u still have to click right? CHEATERS!
Luckily at least three members of rogue openly admit to using these methods. Not to hard to prove when they admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebels
Either someone is hacking gree or someone who works for gree is letting this out and if its someone whos hacking whos to say that they can't hack your ip address or your account information?
they dont encrypt. there is no hacking as far as accessing data that isnt already being sent to you, but it is data yku are not supposed to see.
It's also an invasion of privacy. Some might not care but others might not want everyone knowing if and how much they have spent on this game
If a program had to be developed and used to capture the data as indicated by Matt Thomas then a hack occurred.
There are many applications of such a program that can be used to gain an advantage. Some outlined by montecore in response to the email MT sent to me. Regardless the information that they are able to harvest is not their business even if in their arrogance they justify the action by self appointing themselves to police crime city accounts.
Further I find it amazing that not only do they not see that they are wrong but rather they seem to be proud of their ability to hack accounts. Peppers had no problem admitting that rogues used the program on gree's own public forum. Matt Thomas detailed how the program worked via email to me and finally Beardy used it to gain my information and in a stroke of brilliance decided it was prudent to post the results on my wall.....all because I robbed him and he lost when trying to attack me back. Happy to say that beardy's ineptness earned him either a ban or a frozen account so gree will take action. I am interested to see if the admissions by pepper and MT will be dealt with in the same way.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Drake
You are lucky I had someone post everything on my wall and GREE did nothing
please don't put this on the players .. at least don't put gree's incompetence on smarties .. i don't personally recommend doing any of that type of stuff but i do laugh in gree's face when they can't handle their own shoot. each new update breaks the game into pieces .. each new "feature" introduced in this game brings a swarm of bugs and glitches and then their nerdy geeks post useless explanations that they are on it .. is there anything gree can do without using the word "sorry"? frankly, i'm tired of this game because of tens of events .. the game's broken .. glitches and bugs and what not .. then if someone finds their way into gree's butt, they're called out cheaters .. how's that fair?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebels
This is just data that is sent from the server to keep the GUI displaying the proper data. There really isn't anything that can be used maliciously or against somebody. This is the same thing that every server/client game does nowadays. There doesn't really need to be encryption since the data is sent to a PHP socket, and it would check the data. The game doesn't call the methods on the device and then change data on the server, it simply tells the server the method and location and modify values, then sends the new values on the next update.Quote:
Originally Posted by montecore
Example: Instead of calculating the money from the job you just completed, it calculates the money based on something like jobComplete([area], [areaID], [job], [jobID]) and on the secure server connection it then modifies the values on your profile. If the game were to calculate the return value for the money before opening a connection to server, then there'd be the vulnerability for an attack by modifying the un-encrpyted data before it reaches the server.
So yes, it should be encrypted. I think everything should be encrypted. Is it going to make much of a difference in this case? Not in my opinion. Most of the data actually accessible to the player can't really be abused.
Wow. Just wow. I guess I am just blown away how some people will attempt to justify this as being acceptable. Ultimately I feel using an outside program to gather, copy and maintain databases on individuals violates multiple portions of the terms of service set forth by gree. But ultimately these violations are the sole discretion of gree. So rather than locking this thread I for one would like a representative from gree to chime in on exactly where the company stands regarding the collection of data, or at least my data by parties that are not myself or gree.
Please, Sirius, CJ, A&F will one of you please contribute what the companies position is exactly on this issue?
And whoever is collecting the data should be able to see how much gold they have on hand and how much they spent for what purpose exactly?
1. GREE really must encrypt their data! This isn't a free flash game you play to pass time (anonymously), serious harm can be done to us users if GREE fail to secure their game (just imagine if they also handled your credit card information!!).
2. This information was NOT meant to be public or it would be visible in every hood plain for all to see.
3. There are many ways in which this information can be used to gain an advantage in the game, but point 2 above should be reason enough to handle this issue accordingly (see point 4).
4. Who ever discovered this security issue AND decided to utilize it, and who ever else is/was using it is not playing a fair game and should be handled as a hacker/cheater/glitcher.
Question to GREE: What are you doing to fix this?? Why is this security hole still open when it's been public for a long time already?
I've been curious about this database for a while now, and once had started a very long thread about it, which gave one poor guy a permanent vacation when he tried to explain the difference between reading data and UDID hacking (the kind of real hacking done to my friend Baddad's account). This is what I have found out so far. And, since everyone seems to like numbered lists, I'll even use numbers.
1. That a top syndicate, that is higher than second, has a data reader.
2. That a self proclaimed smug syndicate has a data reader.
3. SAS first created their own data reader program, but the guy who made it left for Rogues, but has since left Rogues and is now MIA.
4. That you "register" online to become a part of the data-reader created in SAS.
5. That last I heard (and I heard this very very recently), the leader of a top syndicate who are a bunch of very noisy hired killers, is still a registered user of this database.
6. A certain narcissistic, hypocritical, tiger-loving blow hard, who presents himself as holier than thou, was also a registered user of this database, first created by SAS.
And, in case anyone else would like to change the subject, I think I'll have FISHSTICKS for dinner tonight. Look, I used ALLCAPS again.
It seems to me that this data capture represents a form of cheating..........gaining an unfair advantage with information it was never intended should be available. Anyone involved should be banned from the game.
If you are going to argue that nothing is wrong with it because it doesn't involve modifying or hacking game code, then presumably you sanction the time travelling cheats as well........after all they don't modify or hack code to gain their unfair advantage.
I wrote my own data reader months ago, just because i'm curious. I certainly haven't gained any competitive advantage with it, as i'm outside the top100 and not a gold spender. Sounds like all the top teams are doing it anyway, so it's an even playing field up there. I mostly just check out my fellow syndicate members and opponents who beat me.
There seems to be a fair bit of anger directed towards the data-reading "cheats" instead of the lazy programmers at Funzio/Gree. Returning the entire row from the db query instead of the relevent fields is just crap coding.
Anyway, i'd love to know more about these other readers. I'm starting to wonder if there is more to the story.
To what end are you checking opponents? If not to gain a form of intelligence on them that the developers never intended you should have (an advantage), then it seems a very fascile activity you are using your energies on.Quote:
Originally Posted by hg789
You suggest all top teams do it. They do not. Are you suggesting that all top team should participate in data cheating to 'level the playing field' as you put it?
If this is your implied suggestion, then you would have to extend that stance I think. It is not much of a secret that certain top teams include hackers/cash cheats/RP cheats. Should all top teams be obliged to engage in these activities too to level your playing field?
I struggle to see how any of the top teams would benefit from harboring RP hackers.
Depends on your definition of 'top' - the poster I replied to appeared to be thinking as low as top 100/75/50. These teams certainly would benefit from anyone with several hundred doomsday frags, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
Because certain top 25 syndicates have players with stats so terrible that they need 500 of the top RP items just to have a chance at attacking anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by bald zeemer
Fair call, BM. And that certain syndicate stands out like a sore thumb for the insanely low average stats of its players.
Fair enough. I came at it from a fairly one-sided perspective.Quote:
Depends on your definition of 'top' - the poster I replied to appeared to be thinking as low as top 100/75/50. These teams certainly would benefit from anyone with several hundred doomsday frags, for example.
What did the top 25 syndicates actually use the data for? I have a difficult to e believing that its sole purpose was to weed out respect point and money hackers........my kid could figure out a person with 500 doomsday was not legit.
Has to be a pretty effective recruiting tool, correct? To be able to see that player x has 1500 gold on hand and has purchased 40k gold seems to be pretty valuable info.
It's just as easy to get a pretty accurate idea of how much gold someone has spent as it is to see if they are RP hacking/time travelling. Even easier, if you are doing a detailed inventory check.
As I said, to satiate my curiosity. It in no way helps me to find out an opponents skill point distribution, gold spent, or anything else like that after i've just attacked/robbed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by VikesUK
Perhaps if i had a database populated from previous attacks and hoods i've visited, shared and populated by numerous other players, then that that would be a different story. But personally I don't do that, so i maintain my claim that i've gained no competitive advantage.
No, i just suggested that they probably already are. Post #60 listed multiple syndicates in the top 25 that have similar systems in place. I'm not naive enough to believe the others don't.Quote:
You suggest all top teams do it. They do not. Are you suggesting that all top team should participate in data cheating to 'level the playing field' as you put it?
No, but it's also no secret Gree doesn't give a toss about cheaters. Cheaters just encourage non-cheaters to buy more gold.Quote:
... It is not much of a secret that certain top teams include hackers/cash cheats/RP cheats. Should all top teams be obliged to engage in these activities too to level your playing field?
No, these aren't multiple syndicates in the top25 she was referring to, these are multiple syndicates in the top3 she was referring to. Plus one guy in HTC who everyone knows anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by hg789
If you still think baddad was hacked, and he didn't willingly give his UDID to Ian so Ian could collect for him or score for him, then your detective skills need work. But I will humor you and go through your points anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress Nikita
It wouldn't surprise me. I have heard "they have something similar" but nothing I would say is provable as a fact. I know they have planted at least one spy on SAS and in SAS chatrooms, and seem to gather information very quickly, so very little would surprise me.Quote:
1. That a top syndicate, that is higher than second, has a data reader.
Maybe they do. But if you are going to grade all syndicates in the game on ethics since the start of the game to today, they would score higher than any other team in the top 50.Quote:
2. That a self proclaimed smug syndicate has a data reader.
There was a very intelligent, and I believe ethical player, who put together a rudimentary database while in SAS which got much more advanced once he left. My favorite part to the database was that it could export your entire inventory into CSV or an Excel spreadsheet. I can't believe Gree won't put this together when it took this person a few hours. It had other ethical uses as well, which I tend to categorize in the "things anyone could do with Excel themselves if they didn't mind spending 100 hours to do it". And it could (and was) used to determine if people were time travelers or hackers.Quote:
3. SAS first created their own data reader program, but the guy who made it left for Rogues, but has since left Rogues and is now MIA.
Once the player left for Rogues, everyone in SAS lost access. We also lost access to our website, many of our spreadsheets and battle data, and all kinds of stuff. I still hope at some point RG takes a look and gives us copies as I'd love to know what a ponse I was in our first battle, or how I did in the very first PVP event we won. My understanding is that everyone in Rogues was given access to it once he joined.Quote:
4. That you "register" online to become a part of the data-reader created in SAS.
I went on a bit of an OCD sociopathic rampage against Rogues a few months back, and bagging on the database was one of my targets. A friend in Rogues downloaded about 1600 documents which I showed to various players and syndicate leaders. I was pissed off that they had access and others did not. My goal was to get them to open it up for all of the other syndicates or shut it down completely, and the eventual result is that RG opened it up for the top 25 leaders in his leader's chatroom. Since then I heard they stopped updating it and stopped using it completely. It was suspected they just moved it somewhere new but with the creator gone and the headaches it has caused I tend to believe them.Quote:
5. That last I heard (and I heard this very very recently), the leader of a top syndicate who are a bunch of very noisy hired killers, is still a registered user of this database.
I have always gone out of my way to not name the person who created it, even when asked point blank, because I do believe they are ethical, I loved discussing technology with them, and I always liked them.
I actually never had an account, I believe back then it was just open access if you had the link. I can assure you I never had a login/password since the member went Rogue.Quote:
6. A certain narcissistic, hypocritical, tiger-loving blow hard, who presents himself as holier than thou, was also a registered user of this database, first created by SAS.
I know that you think about me constantly. Many have commented on this seemingly explosive attraction you feel towards me. All you can think about is montecore. Always on your mind. But I want to remind you that while I am a real person at the end of this keyboard, you have fallen in love with an online persona. You don't know the real me and frankly I don't need yet another stalker trying to win my affection.
As esteemed judge of character, and a refined palette to boot. Treat yourself to Heinz, the others are simply catsup.Quote:
And, in case anyone else would like to change the subject, I think I'll have FISHSTICKS for dinner tonight. Look, I used ALLCAPS again.
1)This is the most stupidest excuses I ever heard. If I put my wallet on the table and somebody take it; takes all the money and thats not make him a thief ?Quote:
Originally Posted by montecore
2,3)Sorry, but I would say 'I dont think so' :rolleyes:
You people steal/ hack whatever you name it, have guy create computer programs....are u SAS all work in CIA :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
If I gave you my bank password and told you that you could use it in January, it's one thing. And if you used it in February without asking, it's fair to say it is inappropriate. But it doesn't mean you hacked anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegoCity
You can believe what you want, but I think Matt and just about anyone in Rogues wouldn't disagree with me on points #2 or 3. They might disagree with others, but not those two.
Rogues may not even have access to some of our old spreadsheets, as access to some of it may have been taken by killshot.
I have all the data and could possibly be persuaded to pass it along. I'm a real data hoarder. You're right though, since I set up all the sheets for SAS, I took em all with me :-/.Quote:
Originally Posted by montecore
I think providing copies of the data is the right thing to do, but you hold the documents and it's obviously your decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattThomas08
I think it's time everyone puts past incidence's behind them and makes a step forward. Don't look in the rear view mirror all your life...... You won't see what's happening ahead.
I believe everyone enjoys CC and its up to us as players not just Gree to make it an enjoyable game but a game with honest respectful morals.
We have two well know members of the community, that a Lot of people look up to and ask for advice setting an example that could be a little tidier.
As 'leaders' of the community we lowly humble meek peasants look up to members such as yourself. I am not bagging anyone and I may be speaking out of place, but we all can make this game a better place. :)
Cheers Jimmy
People are going to start thinking you blue Dippy......Quote:
Originally Posted by montecore
montecore sold his forum account to me over a month ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by mxz
No official reply. Interesting.
Thank you for the response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assault and Flattery