The boss and armour looks awesome to me.... I want it! :cool:
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The boss and armour looks awesome to me.... I want it! :cool:
It looks like nobody is really answering your question and it's because there is no good answer at the moment. As mentioned earlier, managing EE is important and finding a good armor match to the boss is also important, but even when all that is done, I can't see you completing level 43 with storyline armor and no gems. Unfortunately, you're stuck in a bad place and it's all due to bad timing (Gree made changes that now makes it impossible to leap from storyline to Epic Boss +)...Quote:
Originally Posted by D3athShade
The problem is that Gree changed the game recently and widened the gap between the storyline and the Epic Boss battles. It used to be that you could get the best armor from the story line and then work towards the Epic Bosses, but they changed the bosses, so that they're much harder now. The gap that now exists between the Storyline and Epic Boss is so large that you'll need gems to overcome it.
For example, completing level 43 is a challenge for me and I have multiple Legendary+ armors. At times, I need to use gems to complete level 43. I also have a decent pool of friends who also have good armor (a quarter of them have better armor than me). The only reason I was able to even get to where I am is because the Android platform just started out and getting into the top 25 epic damage leader board wasn't difficult. That meant an automatic legendary+ armor... without this, I can't imagine how anyone can be expected to get a legendary+ armor using just the storyline and no gems.
Gree needs to either lower the Epic Boss difficulty or they need to add new storyline armor that will allow people to compete after the storyline. As it stands right now, after the storyline, you're kinda stuck... unless you use gems. With that said, you can get free gems from the video offers and if you save up, you can use them sparingly to get to level 43.
Here's my gem strategy (I still need it with multiple Legendary+ armor):
1) Use a gem or 2 for critical hits if you know that an extra hit may make the difference between a win and a loss.
2) Never use the 12 gem cost for repeating the battle with fresh guys. If you're that far away from beating the boss, then it's time to give up and wait until next week.
3) Plan ahead and if you think you're going to miss "playing time" throughout the week, purchase EE at the beginning of the event. This will allow you to get ahead by several hours or even days (depending on your purchase), because you can push forward into the event without using friends. Later in the event, your 10 friend limit becomes the bottleneck and purchasing EE may not help you as much.
4) As you get closer to 43, you'll need to make a judgement call and decide whether to push forward with gems or not. Try and calculate how many gems it will take to finish 43 based on the damage you're currently doing and if you think it's worth it, then go for it. Otherwise wait until next week.
Update: One more thing.
If you're willing to gamble, you could create the non-plus boss armor and fuse 2 of them together. You can get Tempered Battlegear, Guardian Battlegear, Clayplate Mantle, Combustion, and Moontide through fusion. All those in regular versions are as good or better than Legendary Boss armor. Keep in mind it's still a gamble and there's no guarantee, but at least the fusion rate is miles better than the DPC drop rate.
My daughter cry after she saw this monster
funny...:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Of The Infernal
without the eye it wouldnt be that bad...
GREE shame on you for making a little girl cry :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord Of The Infernal
I havenīt thought of that one. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by dd_knights
Level 43 for the last boss cost me 24 gems. At that stage it is certainly a good investment. In general I prefer to invest some gems to get a plus armor instead og opening DPCs.
She has excellent judgement ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Of The Infernal
A bit annoying elements for new player. Will get rocfeather+ to 70 to try to kill it, just last week got to lvl 43 for the first time and would like a repeat, so if anyone got moontide could use the help =)
My code is XBD-DHQ-NVR
Hiwtey
There's also the alternative if 43 isn't feasable but you do have the gems [1]: Summoning Stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by dd_knights
One of my problems
* 7 friends level 100+
* 6 friends level 90-100
Some of them, looking by their armors, not competing for the epic boss.
To beat a boss levels 35+ I need to field an excellent team of friends and I can maybe field 1 1/2 of those each day, which is lower than the 2 1/2 runs imposed by the 10 friend limit, so I've been PM-ing people like you to see if I can beef up the strength in the top of my friend list.
This boss I'm totally mismatched w.r.t. armors, so I'll probably just try to end up somewhere in the 20s w.r.t. level and divert some of the friends to Evil Gems farming instead. (for friends I'll only be a tank soaking hits to build up special attack energy this week in my maxed Swamp+ (double neutral). Sorry about that.)
[1]personally I don't: I need the gems for L3 TF, 4th armorsmith and L3 armorsmiths first and free gems has run nearly dry for me.
In a nutshell you have summed up the situation as I also see it, almost. The storyline armors were supposed to get you to the level where you can beat epic bosses. Anyone can get to level 15 with storyline armors (and possibly a few friends), but people are being told not to cap the non+ armor as it's not very good; if you can't get to level 43, don't bother. I'm not sure this is necessarily correct. I think that non+ armor is supposed to be the next step after the storyline armors, and you will need a few of those in your stable (plus some strong friends) before you can reach 43 without gems.Quote:
Originally Posted by dd_knights
I could be wrong, but I think people are, quite naturally, impatient to get to the 'top'. The top in this case being level 43 or more against Epic Bosses. Gree's job is to cash in on that impatience by offering a means to spend a little money to speed up the jump to 43. I'm not saying what Gree is doing is wrong, because it's the nature of all games of this type. I am wondering if the patient player can still make 43 without gems, by using the non+ Epic armors as another stepping stone.
BTW, I used gems to get my first Epic+, so I'm not in any way saying this is wrong, silly, cheating or anything else derogatory.
Interesting point musketeer. I'm level 66 with all big 4 + maxed and working on Infernal Lord. I've been able to get all of the armors since jackalope. My game got reset though, so I got set back. Even with that, I was able to get all of the 4 regular dragon armors, just not the + version on any of them.
I need to take a look at the spreadsheet, but I guess the question would be: are any of the 4 Non Plus dragon armors better than the top level 70 story armors (Dark Prince and Infernal Lord mainly). If so, it probably would be worth crafting and getting the regular version to level 70.
Edit: here are the stats compared
boreas reg - 1000 810
eurs reg - 892 908
notus reg - 715 1113
phyrus reg - 1105 738
_____
Infernal + 1025 1050
Dark Prince + 1120 899
So going by those numbers alone, it looks like its probably not worth it? The reg Epic armors seem to have similar stats as the level 70 + story armors. So unless you are crafting and maxing them for the variety in elements, it may not be worth it.
On the other hand, if you get Infernal + and DP + maxed and still can't get to level 43 on the boss, I guess there is no reason not to work on maxing the regular epic armors if you are willling to put the time into it.
Stat wise perhaps it isn't always worth it, but I think I'm going to throw in my current situation to give a little insight on this current story/boss gap.
Right now I have the Big 4 capped. I also have Swamp+, Infernal+ and Roc+ all maxed. Working on getting the last 10 gems to smith Dark Prince+. I basically have nothing to level. I have, with these armors (and even after dark prince+ is maxed), 3 gaps in my ability to produce damage. I'm missing spirit/earth, water/spirit, and fire/air. These gaps in my elemental coverage are proving, this week particularly, bothersome. Last week I could have spent gems to get Phyrus+, and could hit summoning stone with the free gems I have to finish off the last 2 materials. But I won't, because it isn't that much better than Infernal, and doesn't close any elemental gap. So given that my armorsmiths are still belting out armors, and I have all these free armors from tournament wins and epic boss rewards taking up space, I'm leveling up Eurus normal to try to cover water/spirit. Is it "worth it" to level the non+ Eurus? In my situation I think so. It will come out stronger than spectral captain+, and covers the gap. Will it let me beat the epic boss up to 43 and get this weeks Epic+? Not even close. But combined with rocfeather+ and some friends, it may.
Logically it is completely worth it to level the non+ version of an epic boss armor if:
1) You have no other armor to level AND;
2) It will cover a damage output that you are currently unable to fill.
Storyline wise there is only one elemental combo you cannot make, and that is fire/air. However, spectral captain, and chimera corp have stats that leave for something to be gained. In the case of spectral captain+, it may be worth it to level if you have nothing else to level and need a water/spirit, but in the case of chimera corp, the stats are so abysmal that you will get much better damage output somewhere else.
This weeks boss is effective against all 7 of my armors, with the exception of swamp shaman, which receives no benefit nor is hindered. I would not put leveling a non+ epic boss armor above leveling a +version in priority, but if it's all you have to do, it's not a bad idea. If you aren't constantly crafting armor, you're losing by stagnation. The goal to keep getting better is to never stagnate.
I think Boreas regular is worth developing, because it's significantly better than AA+ to which it is complement. Two AA+ and a Boreas should give you a really good run at the next Fire/Spirit Epic Boss, and any Fire/Earth that comes along in the future too.
Eurus attack is better than Spectral Captain+ by over 100 piont, so I think if you haven't already heavily invested in Spectral than that is probably worth it, especially if you're going to be in time to use it against the current Slimelord boss and you want that armor.
The others, probably not worth it since as you show you can craft a bigger Four Armor that is better, for the same cost in gold and materials, if not time and effort spent gathering them.
I agree with that ejay - it definately cant hurt anything if you have all of the worth while story + armors maxed and are still trying to bridge that gap. At the very least it will help even out the "element portfolio" in your armor collection.
Thanks for the great explanation too. I'll probably end up waiting to craft some of the regular versions once I get Infernal + and Dark Prince + maxed.
On Android (without guild bonuses), I think the answer is no, but I'd love to hear other people's opinions and strategies. If you have 10 friends using awesome armor, I think you can get close, but you'll likely come up a bit short every time. This can be changed in your favor with a few gems, but without gems... I think it's near impossible. Having non-plus legendary boss armor can help (they're better than the big 4), but it's not going to allow you to finish level 43 without gems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musketeer
At level 43 with the current state of bosses, I'm usually left with a few thousand hp left after my first attempt. This can range from 2K to 10K. I think if I were to use Storyline+ armor, I would be left with a few thousand more. The main problem is that without gems, you can only use 5 more EE before the boss disappears. This means your primary knight and possibly a friend with good armor. The boss will automatically hit you with back-to-back crits on your second attempt (no idea why, but it always does) and this means you will only get a few shots off with your primary. If the boss has 7K (or more) in hp left, this is going to be an impossible task without gems.
Now with that said, with some careful planning and prudent gem spending, you can probably manage this. Knowing that you need to get the boss down to a low enough level to kill him during the second round is vital to your success. You don't want to wait until round 2 to start using gems for automatic crits (you'll be doing less damage at this time). What you want to do is find your hardest hitting knight in round 1 and throw in some extra crits via gems at that point. This will maximize your gem spending, but it's a bit risky, since you could end up spending some gems and still not win (which would really suck). Of course, if you have some gems to spare, the safest method is to buy additional energy for 10 gems.
I think it's obviously a business
they try to get money from the impatience of the players.
It's a very clever choice actually, so the point made by Musketeer is correct from this side
On the other hand what Edcculus said is correct about the armors.
The storyline+ are better of most of the non+ epic, so unless you want the diversity in your wardrobe (the best storyline+ don't cover all combinations that are actually 10, if we consider that the color in the top doesn't make any difference) there is no point in topping an epic.
Unless what I said about the edge in favor of strong defenses is true (it hasn't been demonstrated at all yet), then a Notus could be worth to upgrade
in any case I wouldn't even bother to craft the current one
got through 9 levels in one day. Not too bad.
I may not be crafting the armor, but I like the animations for this boss. The vomit attack is worth getting hits a few times just to see.
Hello vubby, I just read your post and wondered if you could add me. I'm level 116, XBB-HXV-ZVDQuote:
Originally Posted by vubby
Conan
You are all making an interesting point about the gap but I think you are exaggerating it a little bit. The problem is, we just had the dragon event and those bosses were harder than this weeks boss or the bosses before the dragons.
That said, until the past two weeks, all I had was the big four maxed. I didn't have any of the 3* story armors. Despite that, I was able to get notus+ and phyrus+ using only my big four. (I couldn't get boreas+ or eurus+ because my big four weren't even maxed at that point!) To do this, I had to spend 22 gems to summon notus two times because I couldn't beat the level 42 boss. For phyrus, I used 20 gems on E early on so that I would have more time later to use my friends.
I also know people who got all the boss+ armors using the storyline armors. (The bigger four). If you find that storyline armors aren't getting you to level 43 on the boss, you either have weak friends, or don't know how to effectively maximize your energy usage. Now that bosses have dropped back down to Deva stats, the big four should actually be more than enough to beat the bosses to level 43, assuming you have at least 10 level 100+ friends with legendary armors. Many people probably would disagree with me, but I am speaking from experience. I DID unlock 2 legendary+ armors using only the big four. So it is possible, the gap is not too large yet. And it is definitely not too large for people with Swamp, Roc, Infernal, and DP. It should be effortless if you have those four maxed.
and 42 gems...Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
add me for boss :P lv 624
WBB GYZ ZYB
:)
42 gems isn't a lot. I get between 5 and 20 every day from video offers. But my point was to show that if the big four can do it with the help of 42 gems, the storyline armors can do it without gems. If you look on the last page, people were saying you have to use gems even with the story armors. I just wanted to correct them and encourage them to keep trying. The gap is still small enough. Max the big four then max the bigger four and you will beat the epic bosses 43 times easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musketeer
I'm on Android and we don't have guilds or guild bonuses, so maybe that's what's different here. I have Legendary+ armor and even when matching up elements, beating level 43 can be a challenge. By the time level 43 rolls around, the bosses hit like trucks and having a good set of friends certainly helps, but I have never beaten a level 43 boss in just 1 round (i.e. 5 knights). I've always needed the help of the additional 2 knights to beat level 43 (i.e. it's never easy and it's always close).Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
In most cases, if I beat level 43 without gems, it's because I barely squeaked by... it's certainly not easy and I can't imagine doing it with story level armor and no gems.
Also to be clear, you beat Phyrus on level 43 with only the Big 4 and 3 friends (no gems, except to speed up the beginning of the event)? I'm assuming you used a 5+2 strategy (i.e. 3 + 2 friends and 1 + 1 friend)? Knowing my experience on Android, I just can't imagine how that's even possible.
Having decent guild bonuses and a great set list of friends last week for Phyrus, I can't imagine how beating Phyrus on 43 is possible at all in just storyline without gems. It most certainly isn't with maxed swamp shaman+ and maxed HH+ with 4 friends all wearing maxed Jackalope+ at 1600/1600. Without gems and wearing those armors he still had 3k left. I tried twice. 4/3 strategy each time, same results.
If you are using the 5 knights followed by two strategy you will never win. The best strategy is:Quote:
Originally Posted by dd_knights
Fight 1: main, friend, friend
Fight 2: one of your backup knights, main, friend, friend
It is important that you use 4 friends the second time and that the first knight is not your main because in the second fight, the boss ALWAYS opens with two crits. Let your crappy knight absorb these two shots.
The reason 3/4 is better than 5/2 is because if you actually do the math, 100% bonus followed by a 25% bonus actually does less damage than a 50% bonus followed by a 75% bonus.
I also have a 12% guild bonus on each of my knights so I do have that going for me.
As for the last post about losing to phyrus twice, you must have had bad luck(e.g. Lots of misses)....also you said you were running 4/3. 4/3 does not work as well as 3/4! 4/3 means that in the second fight, your main knight will die in two or three hits. Assuming your main is stronger than your backup knight (which it is), you want your crappy knight to die in two hits not your main! This will let your main get in two additional hits......which is about 3000 damage. Therein lies your problem dude
I must be one of the few that actually likes the look of the armor and the boss for that matter and this armor is really solid because i have no good earth+water.
I still don't believe the math of it. However, the 12% bonus does change it up quite a bit from mine. (5% on each element). But I never thought about 3/4 instead of 4/3. Makes sense. Thanks for the headsup! I won't be trying to get 43 too vehemently this week, but I will definitely be testing it if I get to that point, and will be using it next week with the new boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
That does burn up 4 of your 10 available friends for the day though, so you'll only get in two levels per day. Fine if you're close to 43 with plenty of time on the clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
I like the 3/4 logic. I still wonder if, with strong armors for both your backup knights, you can get away with 5/2. IO've always used 5/2, with success. Usually the boss has very little damage left to go, and using the knowledge fro the first round (and BethMo's Formula) you can judge how many hits it will take, and who to use from your friends. Of course multiple misses, and those double specials to open from the Boss, can change everything.
42 is still a lot of gems in my book, though I am starting to get better luck with the video offers, 6 gems so far today. Gree would charge you over $5 for those gems, and as you see the handouts for both Arena and Epic Boss are very shy with gems. If you still have training fields to upgrade that's a better investment. Once you have that, then beating the boss is probably the next best thing, since the chests are so uneconomical.
I'm not really interested in this boss but I'm fighting him anyway, and judging from my leaderboard position many others are taking a week off.
I see what you're saying about 4/3 vs 3/4. This make sense, but 3000 damage? I'm not so sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
Also, your math for the 4/3 strategy vs 5/2 strategy is flawed. In fact, it might actually be better to go 2/5 now that I think about it. Going 2/5 allows you to throw in a backup knight to take the 2 crits on the second round, yet still allow you to run the 5/2 strategy.
Anyhow, going back to the math, the math is flawed, because 5/2 is actually superior in terms of output damage, but 4/3 in reality may be better because friends are better than backup knights. In the 4/3 strategy, you can use 4 friends instead of 3. I personally never use 4/3 and haven't tested it out, because I only like to use 2 friends per attempt. On Android, if I start using 4 friends per attempt, it puts me at a massive leaderboard disadvantage, which means I won't get my free armor. Ultimately, I want each of my friends to output maximum damage to compete on the leaderboard... in order to do this, a 5/2 strategy is important.
Anyhow, there's some good input coming out of this... the 12% guild bonus is something I wish we had for Android!
Also, to illustrate the damage output, let's assume every knight is doing 100 damage.
100 + 100
100 + 100
100 + 100
100 + 100
100 + 100
100 + 25
100 + 25
Total: 1250 for 5/2
100 + 50
100 + 50
100 + 50
100 + 75
100 + 75
100 + 75
100 + 75
Total: 1150 for 4/3
The 5/2 strategy is 8.7% stronger overall, if we use the exact same knights. In reality, if you're employing the 4/3 strategy, you'll likely be using a friend who may be able to compensate for the 8.7% difference.
My favourite boss so far! Especially the special attack where he spews slime. :p I already have Jack+ but I'm pushing for the + version of this just because I know that my seven year old is going to go nuts when he can equip it on the earth night that's named after him. :D:cool::D
you guys make it sound like this leap from storyline to epic + is so impossible now. I had big 4 and infernal and swamp maxed didnt even get prince yet at around lvl 85 and i was able to beat the lvl 43 of the deva to get my first epic +. its really not that hard if you plan out your ee. GEMS IS NOT NECCESSARY
and that is why we keep privileged information for the privileged, away from the unbelievers
I like the way this one looks, it's cray.
I'm a level 87 with the big 4 and swamp shaman + (lvl 50). I have 34 gems, any idea what I should spend them on? Almost used them on the dpc but I rarely get gem offers and I know the odds are bad. Any chance I could break lvl 43 on the epic boss or is 34 just not enough gems? I only got to 25 on phyrus without spending gems if that helps as a reference point
I would spend the gems on getting your training grounds to level 3 (although it's a boring decision). I would avoid DPC at all costs (at this point in time and maybe even forever).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmozzy
As for using gems on this boss... I'd say if you can get to level 40 without gems, I would consider using the gems to finish level 43 of the boss. Or if you want to be sure you get enough materials, it might be better to use 33 gems at the summoning stone after completing level 40.
don't spend on anything except level TFs til you've maxed them all, period
Okay first of all...I didn't invent this strategy, it was taught to me by players who have played a lot longer than me. In fact, the 3/4 and 4/3 are what is supported by all the top players.Quote:
Originally Posted by dd_knights
Now, to answer your math. Here is one mess up: you assumed every knight does 100 damage. That is wrong.
Main knights' stats are 50% higher than backup knights. E.g. your main has about 600 health and 300 of each offense and defense(approximately) while your backup knights have about 400/200/200 respectively.
So let's try again:
Your way:
100 (your main)
67 (a backup)
67 (a backup)
100 (a friend)
100 (a friend)
=434
x2
=868
Now the second fight:
100 (your main)
100 (your friend)
=200
x1.25
=250
Total = 1118 damage
Now, my way:
Fight 1:
100 (main knight)
100 (friend)
100 (friend)
=300
x1.50
=450
Fight 2:
67 (backup knight)
100 (main knight)
100 (friend)
100 (friend)
=367
x1.75
=642.25
Total = 1092.25
Your way did 25.75 more damage.
Wow...I guess your way is better....BUT WAIT. You forgot the whole point of the conversation dude. I was trying to do the most damage possible for someone who only has the big four.
Meaning if I do it your way, every knight won't do 100 (or even 67) damage. The three friends you use will do 100 damage, but the 4 knights of your own will do a fraction of that. Like 50 or less. So here is what I do, use 3 of my own crappy knights, then use 4 of my friends who have fully maxed Jian+ armors.
You see?
This wasn't about finding the best way to kill the boss using 7 knights equipped with the same awesome armor. This was about finding a way to make up for the fact that I have crappy armor but my friends have the best armors in the game. By using this 3/4 method, I capitalize on the strength of my friends. THAT is how I beat the lvl 43 Phyrus. I used my Notus+ to tank the beginning of the second fight, and I used my HH+ on my main in both fights. They barely did any damage, but the four Jian plusses wrecked him.
Here is my point. If you have 3 boss plus armors unlocked and maxed out, then you're set...getting to lvl 43 isn't hard. But if you are like me, and until a week ago, you had zero boss+ armors, you can still get to level 43 using powerful friends, quite easily.
This is my last post on this subject...too tired of people arguing. Just know this, I didn't say any of this to offend anyone or tell them they are wrong. What I was trying to do was share knowledge that I found useful when people gave it to me. I'm trying to empower you and let you know, it isn't nearly as hard as you think, hang in there, play it smart, and you will have a boss+ by the end of this week. Good luck to everyone!
forget it kec, they're unbelievers i tell ya, but joo be laughing all da way to da bank wit ja plusses y'all
I agree with youQuote:
Originally Posted by UN Kec
the problem is when you have friends (100+) wearing crappy armors who knows why...
the strongest friend I have are less than 100 but with Aegis, the others go with AA and stuff like this...
so if you have friends that use his best on the main character ok, if they wear whatever untopped non epic it's very hard...