Preemptive Strike! How to fix Guild Wars & Arena!

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Originally Posted by Eunuchorn

You sir, are an idiot.

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Although I fully understand your point regarding the upcoming guild wars, & you playing other Gree games as well, it should be clear to all of us how disappointing Gree's actions are to most issues out there more often than not.

LC has his point as well in connecting the pattern Gree does in other games. Regardless of how we see things and how we want it to be, in the end, Gree decides what they will do and won't do, what they can't and can. We can rant all we want, send millions of tickets and all, if Gree designs things and run things the opposite, that's how it goes. Not that I'm stopping anyone from voicing out all these valid issues. Sure, it's everyone's right. But be ready to be disappointed when you don't get what you want or hope things go the way you do. It's part of reality.

As for the quoted sentence above, this kind of behavior Eunuchorn is what turns people off and what might cause your guild to fall if you keep giving people the impression that you're arrogant. So as a friendly advice, take it a little easy =) You're also one of my allies in MQ back then, but never noticed you had this kind of attitude. Perhaps because it was crazyscorp, barkeep & others who are the top players there? There are better ways to say things and words to use to not sound like belittling people. Anyway, carry on. Just my 2 cents =)

Cheers!

King Mark,

Maybe you should turn your attention to L C. All his comments have totally missed the point and weren't even relevant to what Chorn was discussing. I loled hard at what Chorn quoted - it seems LC has completely misunderstood chorn's suggestions.

I'm not sure if he was just lashing out at Chorn thru tinted glasses, but please fellow forumers - IN ANY THREAD, PLEASE TAKE TIME TO READ AND FULLY COMPREHEND THE POSTS LEST YOU MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

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Originally Posted by Thatzme

King Mark,

Maybe you should turn your attention to L C. All his comments have totally missed the point and weren't even relevant to what Chorn was discussing. I loled hard at what Chorn quoted - it seems LC has completely misunderstood chorn's suggestions.

I'm not sure if he was just lashing out at Chorn thru tinted glasses, but please fellow forumers - IN ANY THREAD, PLEASE TAKE TIME TO READ AND FULLY COMPREHEND THE POSTS LEST YOU MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

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@Thatzme

Thanks! Would do again. But trust me, I've been in Gree's forum long enough to read between the lines and make time to objectively understand opposing views ^^ To say "ALL" LC's comment have missed out points and "aren't even relevant", wouldn't be accurate and would be one-sided. And I'd have to disagree as he has his points, so as Eunuchorn =)

What I advice is to everyone to maturely accept opposing views, ideas, etc. and we'd have a more fruitful conversation here instead of a circus and off topic posts, lol!

Again, just my 2 cents! ^^

King Mark, don't get me wrong, I have no bone to pick with you. My point on reading the posts and understanding them was not directed at you.
I like debates, I enjoy discussions cos they help you see different perspectives. But objectively, L C's response to each of Chorn's suggestions shows a lack of understanding.

1) Locking armors - Chorn was referring to locking the armor of the knights for the sake of guild wars. Which means u can't change what the knights are wearing during the one hour window after war is declared. Why fusion was brought in by L C completely eludes me.

2) GLs declaring war and attacking sentinels - L C went on a personal attack instead of comprehending the logic behind chorn's suggestions.

I can't put it any clearer. I understand your diplomatic approach at such conflicts, King Mark. But I don't see any constructive response from L C. Chorn on the other hand makes some sense at least. Whether u agree with him or not, is open for discussion - u take ur stand, give arguments and counter-arguments. That's constructive discussion. The moment u overlook logic and launch a personal attack - that crosses the line.

That said, I don't agree with Chorn calling him an idiot. I think name calling is detrimental to any community - Sadly it has become a norm for non face to face interactions cos people believe they can get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Thatzme

King Mark, don't get me wrong, I have no bone to pick with you. My point on reading the posts and understanding them was not directed at you.
I like debates, I enjoy discussions cos they help you see different perspectives. But objectively, L C's response to each of Chorn's suggestions shows a lack of understanding.

1) Locking armors - Chorn was referring to locking the armor of the knights for the sake of guild wars. Which means u can't change what the knights are wearing during the one hour window after war is declared. Why fusion was brought in by L C completely eludes me.

2) GLs declaring war and attacking sentinels - L C went on a personal attack instead of comprehending the logic behind chorn's suggestions.

I can't put it any clearer. I understand your diplomatic approach at such conflicts, King Mark. But I don't see any constructive response from L C. Chorn on the other hand makes sense.

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@Thatzme

No worries, I'm all good. Thanks for trying to clear things up. Same here, I prefer conversations that would benefit the whole K&D community, than a circus. Nonetheless, I don't mind if anyone unnecessarily wants to pick a fight with me, coz I know how to hold my own ground =)


Back On Topic:

1) In my understanding, LC was trying to point out the technicality/programming which would be required in locking of armors, etc. Yes, this sounds easy for us, but if you've played other Gree games, you'd be more amused how on earth they aren't able to fix tons of things, lol! Eunuchorn has his preference too. Earlier poster disagreed on the idea, another one not sure if he likes the idea.

2) Basically, what LC is saying is that he doesn't think Gree would change their existing and established format of GW in other Gree games like KA wherein even newbies in the guild can declare war. Eunuchorn on the other hand, hopes Gree changes it for K&D because of its downside.

Did I miss anything? I hope not ^^


@Others:

Feel free to share your thoughts about the thread and let's all avoid personal vendettas and name calling.

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Eunuchorn

It's very possible Gree has beat me to the punch on this, but I firmly believe we need a pop up screen at the beginning of the war to choose a name & 3 armors that are then locked for the 3 day war.

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Originally Posted by Thatzme

1) Locking armors - Chorn was referring to locking the armor of the knights for the sake of guild wars. Which means u can't change what the knights are wearing during the one hour window after war is declared.

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Thatz, you need to read more carefully: 'Chorn wants armors locked for three days, not one hour. It's right there in 'Chorn's first post. This is what I objected to.

It's very likely that I'll have new capped Legendary+ armors coming online during the first 3 day war - why should I be denied the use of them just too suit 'Chorn?


In any case I can't see Gree doing any of this stuff. I think the Wars will be very like PvP, where you can choose your knights and armor line-up for each attack, while the defender is stuck in whatever they have set. That's fine, it's equal for everyone, and if the Defender happens to set a new lineup during the 3-hour attack window, so be it.



The stong & organized Guilds will do well, the strong but disorganized Guilds will do OK, the weak but organized Guilds will wish they were stronger, and the Reich will win, and when it's all over we'll all be much where we were before the war started.

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Originally Posted by King Mark

@Thatzme

No worries, I'm all good. Thanks for trying to clear things up. Same here, I prefer conversations that would benefit the whole K&D community, than a circus. Nonetheless, I don't mind if anyone unnecessarily wants to pick a fight with me, coz I know how to hold my own ground =)


Back On Topic:

1) In my understanding, LC was trying to point out the technicality/programming which would be required in locking of armors, etc. Yes, this sounds easy for us, but if you've played other Gree games, you'd be more amused how on earth they aren't able to fix tons of things, lol! Eunuchorn has his preference too. Earlier poster disagreed on the idea, another one not sure if he likes the idea.

2) Basically, what LC is saying is that he doesn't think Gree would change their existing and established format of GW in other Gree games like KA wherein even newbies in the guild can declare war. Eunuchorn on the other hand, hopes Gree changes it for K&D because of its downside.

Did I miss anything? I hope not ^^


@Others:

Feel free to share your thoughts about the thread and let's all avoid personal vendettas and name calling.

Cheers!

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Good summary King mark. Reading the posts that is how I understood things as well. I think LC understood the point very well but was point out the fact that how Gree designed the feature would less likely cause them to switch course and do something different. If you play other games, this logic is sound.

I also would not favor locking armors for 3 days. This would remove more of the strategic elements of the game. That would be analogous to forcing you to lock your armors in the arena every week. The interesting part of the game for me is to discover the armor combinations and locking armors would remove that. Locking armors would also favor those with the latest and greatest "epic", "legendary", "stupendous", "Bestestestestest" armors. A player with a few weeks of playing could dominate in that model.

With regards to declaring war, I prefer a setting that allows the GM to give permissions to members that he trusts rather than hard code GM/champion/sentinel being the only person to be able to declare war. There are multiple effective ways to run a successful guild. If you are worried about a novice player declaring war by accident perhaps your guild isn't staffed/organized as effectively as you think.

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Originally Posted by Lcharlie

I also would not favor locking armors for 3 days. This would remove more of the strategic elements of the game. That would be analogous to forcing you to lock your armors in the arena every week. The interesting part of the game for me is to discover the armor combinations and locking armors would remove that. Locking armors would also favor those with the latest and greatest "epic", "legendary", "stupendous", "Bestestestestest" armors. A player with a few weeks of playing could dominate in that model.

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You just contradicted your whole argument.
It was also cleared up well before the flaming started (by LC) that each knight should have a locked armor, then you can choose your 3 man setup as you wish.

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Originally Posted by Lcharlie

With regards to declaring war, I prefer a setting that allows the GM to give permissions to members that he trusts rather than hard code GM/champion/sentinel being the only person to be able to declare war. There are multiple effective ways to run a successful guild. If you are worried about a novic player declaring war by accident perhaps your guild isn't staffed/organized as effectively as you think.

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Make it HC only then, problem solved. Also, my whole guild is under strict orders to keep us in constant war, so these would actually hurt RR if implemented.

As for all the people saying LC was referring to programming...well, your reading comprehension is as bad as his. It's not your fault though, your great great great great grandparents were having fluoride pumped into their water supply, our generation didn't stand a chance.

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Originally Posted by Lcharlie

I also would not favor locking armors for 3 days. This would remove more of the strategic elements of the game. That would be analogous to forcing you to lock your armors in the arena every week.

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I think a lot of you are still missing the point possibly. Or at least the way I interpreted it. Based on the way they run other games, GREE probably will lock our armors to whatever we have equipped at the beginning of the war. Or at least, that seems in line with the way they run wars.

I think Eunuchorn made several points, but one of them is that there should be a UI that pops up, allowing us to specifically choose them ahead of time, and not accidentally get locked with a setup we were just using to kill one knight. Eunuchorn may or may not support the locking of armors...but this isn't about what he thinks, this about the fact that GREE probably is going to lock armors, and Eunuchorn is asking for a way to make sure we can choose our armors effectively without getting screwed by poorly timed auto-locks.

Whether you want the armors locked or not....it is a distinct possibility that GREE will do it. Lets hope they don't just force you to use your arena setup.

Maybe that was a too roundabout way to say it. What I'm saying is:

@Eunuchorns opening comment: BUMP!

Eunuchorn makes good points! Please hear us GREE and do your best to use these forums to improve the game!

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Originally Posted by Eunuchorn

You just contradicted your whole argument.
It was also cleared up well before the flaming started (by LC) that each knight should have a locked armor, then you can choose your 3 man setup as you wish.

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Perhaps your reading comprehension isn't as good as you seem to think or perhaps you are simply obtuse. My point again just for you is that I don't want armors or knights locked for any reason. There are 10 element combinations and at least three armor types for each element combination. I would not want locking of three armors or to 6 knights. I want to have an active war where I can modify the guild strategy as the war changes. I also want the ability to max new armors during the war to take advantage of it. Locking armors only favor players with a few top armors as indicated in my point which you highlighted(it is just an example). This is against the elemental variety and the strategic combinatorial theme presented in the game.

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Originally Posted by Eunuchorn

Make it HC only then, problem solved. Also, my whole guild is under strict orders to keep us in constant war, so these would actually hurt RR if implemented.

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Good for you but just as a note of clarification that not every statement made in these posts refer to your guild. I couldn't care less if you want to be in constant war or not participate at all.

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Originally Posted by Eunuchorn

As for all the people saying LC was referring to programming...well, your reading comprehension is as bad as his. It's not your fault though, your great great great great grandparents were having fluoride pumped into their water supply, our generation didn't stand a chance.

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This must be another one of your originals. I fail to see how that has anything to do with the game or this discussion. Please take your personal and political views to the Dr. Phil forums.

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Originally Posted by UN Kec

I think a lot of you are still missing the point possibly. Or at least the way I interpreted it. Based on the way they run other games, GREE probably will lock our armors to whatever we have equipped at the beginning of the war. Or at least, that seems in line with the way they run wars.

I think Eunuchorn made several points, but one of them is that there should be a UI that pops up, allowing us to specifically choose them ahead of time, and not accidentally get locked with a setup we were just using to kill one knight. Eunuchorn may or may not support the locking of armors...but this isn't about what he thinks, this about the fact that GREE probably is going to lock armors, and Eunuchorn is asking for a way to make sure we can choose our armors effectively without getting screwed by poorly timed auto-locks.

Whether you want the armors locked or not....it is a distinct possibility that GREE will do it. Lets hope they don't just force you to use your arena setup.

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Difference in opinion perhaps. I read his original post as being able to select your armors and then locked for 3 days. I did not disagree with the first point just with the second.

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Originally Posted by Lcharlie

Difference in opinion perhaps. I read his original post as being able to select your armors and then locked for 3 days. I did not disagree with the first point just with the second.

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Good point. My fear is that before Eunuchorn ever started talking about it, GREE already planned something like this. Regardless of whether we support it, if they implement it, we better hope they implement lock in options.

If not, there will be even more sucky luck involved.

If they don't implement locking at all, that would be fine too..it will just mean more strategy falls to the individuals and guilds to make smart plays.

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Originally Posted by UN Kec

Good point. My fear is that before Eunuchorn ever started talking about it, GREE already planned something like this. Regardless of whether we support it, if they implement it, we better hope they implement lock in options.

If not, there will be even more sucky luck involved.

If they don't implement locking at all, that would be fine too..it will just mean more strategy falls to the individuals and guilds to make smart plays.

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Agreed. I suppose either way we will have to create strategies to cope. I hope for the ability to leverage multiple armors otherwise the game can be very boring if everyone wears black k, aegis and moontide or a combination. I personally would love to be able to see the Eldritche(can't remember the spelling) take down an Aegis which would make top players also having to think about armor strategy versus simply putting on the latest and greatest and call it a day. We see enough players with 2 moontides or aegis and black ks in the arena. The ability to change armors and beat them all is what makes this game fun. If my armors were locked for the arena, I would stop playing the arena. What is the fun in playing every battle with the same three armors? It then becomes a game of avoidance versus a game of challenge.