Mods: Question about Rivals List

I've visited about 50 hoods on my level 250. And all stats have ranged from 8m to 12m. So it looks like relative strength dominates the new algorithm. Now when the next LTQ comes out and I'm thinking about whether to drop x amount of gold for the weapon + mod on offer, what is my incentive? If I gain 1mill in stats, my rival list will just comprise players with 9m-13m in stats.

My reaction to the new rivals list is to never spend gold again to improve my stats because now it's all relative, so you will always be average vs your competition.

Am I missing something?

This is a moot concern. Unless you're the #1 player in CC I'd say there were always stronger players than you. I'm sure even the #1 is vulnerable to being attacked.

Not a moot point at all. Big difference between 10% of your rivals being able to rob you and 100%. If I were to drop 2 vaults and increase my stats 1m. I'd probably protect myself against another 2-3% of my rivals. Now doesn't matter at all, still vulnerable to 100% of my opponents.

So then explain to me the point of building your stats, is it not to be relatively stronger then your competition?

Actually i'd argue its better to have weak stats now, because your rival list probably won't be the active players on CC. And you will rarely be attacked.

If you're concerned about being attacked then you're playing the wrong game. Additionally, you don't know who's rival list you're showing up on. You don't know the percentage of time that you are showing up as the big dog or the little fish. The bottom line is that you were always vulnerable.

EDIT- imo, the point of building stats is to have better targets in war and perform better in boss events.

So you build up stats to do better in war and boss events for what purpose?

To get weapons to build up stats to do better in war and boss events?

You really don't think stats should have an affect on whether you are stronger then your rivals during regular play?

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Originally Posted by RealTeflonDon

If you're concerned about being attacked then you're playing the wrong game. Additionally, you don't know who's rival list you're showing up on. You don't know the percentage of time that you are showing up as the big dog or the little fish. The bottom line is that you were always vulnerable.

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Well, one thing I do know is that 100% of the rivals list I am now showing up on can rob me, before it was less then that (probably significantly less). And the other thing I now know is there is nothing I can do about that, no matter how much stronger I get, I will still to vulnerable to 100% of my rivals (short of joining FC/Art of War).

So, to me the answer is simple, there is now no need to spend gold to improve my stats, because I will always be average.

No, I don't. I got robbed regardless, despite having okay stats for my level. As I'm sure everyone else with a respectable IPH did/does...

No matter what, you were and have always been vulnerable. You can try and guess percentages of who could hit you and who couldn't- irrelevant.

Collect diligently, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by murf

Well, one thing I do know is that 100% of the rivals list I am now showing up on can rob me, before it was less then that (probably significantly less). And the other thing I now know is there is nothing I can do about that, no matter how much stronger I get, I will still to vulnerable to 100% of my rivals.

So, to me the answer is simple, there is now no need to spend gold to improve my stats, because I will always be average.

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You're exactly right. No need to spend gold anymore. Good for my wallet! I never expected Gree to become less greedy and to give us a free game to play, but they did!

If you guys were spending vaults so that another 1/2% of people who's rival list you showed up on couldn't hit you, then you were doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by RealTeflonDon

If you guys were spending vaults so that another 1/2% of people who's rival list you showed up on couldn't hit you, then you were doing it wrong.

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Haha...I don't spend vault after vault.

look at my mid-level accounts....L147-7m stats, L79-6m stats...especially the mini, I've spent just enough gold to make sure that account is a top 1% account. Now it's average. You really think I'm ever spending another dime on that account to improve my stats?

And you still haven't answered what the reason for improving your stats is?

I can now rob and be robbed by 100% of my rival list. I do see some better hoods than before but what's the point. We just keep robbing from each other ad nauseum.

Stupid change.

I already answered that above.

Yes, its redundant, but this game has been redundant since its inception. Make numbers bigger. Your misconception of being bulletproof is laughable though as you never were to begin with. Again, you can guess percentages but you still got hit, didnt you..

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Originally Posted by RealTeflonDon

I already answered that above.

Yes, its redundant, but this game has been redundant since its inception. Make numbers bigger. Your misconception of being bulletproof is laughable though as you never were to begin with. Again, you can guess percentages but you still got hit, didnt you..

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And I never said I was bulletproof, and I actually said maybe 50% of my rivals couldn't touch me, that's a bit different. But my time spent on events and my gold spending is the difference between my L250 account having 2m in stats and 10m in stats. Before that mattered, as I could easily attack and rob, and actually fight off some attacks and robs. Now those 2 levels of stats are the same, they are both average vs their rival lists.

My 2nd and 3rd accounts haven't been robbed in weeks. Especially my 3rd account, it's a top 1% account and this change just made it average....

And on my main account of course I got hit. But case in point, last night my L10/L8 NCs stayed untouched for 4 hours and my L7/L7 NIS staying untouched for 2 hours last night while I slept. No chance of that happening now.

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Originally Posted by RealTeflonDon

Again, you can guess percentages but you still got hit, didnt you..

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You also say you can guess percentages, and you make it sound like 2m stats and 20m stats are the same, because you can still get robbed and you don't know the "percentages", you really don't see the difference or are you just arguing to argue at this point?

I see the difference in the rival list and I see that being robbed irritates you because you put money into your stats. Being robbed is part of the game, welcome back.

Easy fix, make the rival list open to every player from lvl 1 to 250. So that every one is on same playing field

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Originally Posted by RealTeflonDon

I see the difference in the rival list and I see that being robbed irritates you because you put money into your stats. Being robbed is part of the game, welcome back.

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I rob and get robbed every day on my main account. In fact, I probably lose more in robberies every day, then 95% of CC collects. But this is my last thing and I'm done with this argument, because you aren't getting it....

Players should have a choice that if they want to spend a lot of money and become stronger then their rivals, they can do that. That option has now been taken away from them. You will always be average, unless you are in the top 0.01% of players and drop $50k-$100k. $10k is no longer enough to be very strong. You don't see a problem with that?

Murf, your logic is completely sound. Gree has effectively neutralized any incentive to increase stats. They have also penalized high IPH players for no reason. So now, income is a bad thing, and if I was an idiot I would sell all my buildings, but instead I will just leave them robbed.

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Originally Posted by murf

I rob and get robbed every day on my main account. In fact, I probably lose more in robberies every day, then 95% of CC collects. But this is my last thing and I'm done with this argument, because you aren't getting it....

Players should have a choice that if they want to spend a lot of money and become stronger then their rivals, they can do that. That option has now been taken away from them. You will always be average, unless you are in the top 0.01% of players and drop $50k-$100k. $10k is no longer enough to be very strong. You don't see a problem with that?

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No I really don't see a problem with that. If you want to be practically untouchable, spend (a lot) more. Being untouchable was a broken game mechanic IMO. Sure, it was rewarding for players to be in that .01% for their level. Now its only rewarding for the top .0001% of the players in the game. They earned it.

We clearly have a difference of opinion and discussing it clearly isn't going to change either of our minds. I see it as a welcomed change because now I can easily find targets to recoup money stolen from me. Additionally, those that have stolen from me are more likely to have hoods worth retaliating on.

And the downside which you're clearly hung up on is moot to me because you and I were both robbed regardless of our stats.

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Originally Posted by reticlover

Easy fix, make the rival list open to every player from lvl 1 to 250. So that every one is on same playing field

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Best idea I've heard today.

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Originally Posted by Zendfrim

Murf, your logic is completely sound. Gree has effectively neutralized any incentive to increase stats. They have also penalized high IPH players for no reason. So now, income is a bad thing, and if I was an idiot I would sell all my buildings, but instead I will just leave them robbed.

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Thanks... If enough people think rationally about spending gold to increase stats, as we do, then this experiment won't last long, because Gree will see a drop in gold sales.

But there's nothing rational about spending hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands on an phone app game. So who knows.

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Originally Posted by murf

Thanks... If enough people think rationally about spending gold to increase stats, as we do, then this experiment won't last long, because Gree will see a drop in gold sales.

But there's nothing rational about spending hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands on an phone app game. So who knows.

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I spend a significant amount of money on gold, and I like the update.

I don't do a ton of robbing, but after thinking about the new system, here's my take on it.

If everyone on your rival list can rob you and you can rob everyone on your list, the only way to come out ahead is if you have a lower IPH than your rivals. That way, you have less to lose than your rivals. In other words, you want to have a high stat/IPH ratio.

One way to do better in the game of rob or be robbed is to raise your stats while keeping your current IPH. Improving your stats would presumably get you access to stronger rivals with higher IPH that you can steal from. The other way to win the game would be to sell all your buildings so you have nothing to steal from. But in that case, you wouldn't need to rob because you have nothing to spend the cash on.

As far as I can tell, the change forces people to rob others in order to make up for losses from being robbed. It screws campers who don't have high stats compared to their IPH. It also screws older accounts who have spent a long time building up their hoods but haven't kept up with the recent stat mega-inflation.

With all due respect, I must disagree with that particular conclusion. which in turn is being used as a premise for your final conclusion. "the ONLY way to come out ahead"

Another way to "come out ahead" is to collect on time.

I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but I believe it IS an important alternative and viable "strategy" for "coming out ahead"

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Originally Posted by Didas

I don't do a ton of robbing, but after thinking about the new system, here's my take on it.

If everyone on your rival list can rob you and you can rob everyone on your list, the only way to come out ahead is if you have a lower IPH than your rivals. That way, you have less to lose than your rivals. In other words, you want to have a high stat/IPH ratio.

One way to do better in the game of rob or be robbed is to raise your stats while keeping your current IPH. Improving your stats would presumably get you access to stronger rivals with higher IPH that you can steal from. The other way to win the game would be to sell all your buildings so you have nothing to steal from. But in that case, you wouldn't need to rob because you have nothing to spend the cash on.

As far as I can tell, the change forces people to rob others in order to make up for losses from being robbed. It screws campers who don't have high stats compared to their IPH. It also screws older accounts who have spent a long time building up their hoods but haven't kept up with the recent stat mega-inflation.

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Originally Posted by Blowin Smoke

I spend a significant amount of money on gold, and I like the update.

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and once again your name fits just right. That's forward thinking.

You can protect your building income for free!11! - just collect on time! :cool:

A bigger question to ask for mods to answer is what is real motive for this change up?

Your rivals list is opened but about +/- 25%. The more important question was hit upon by a few peeps and it isn't robbing.

We will get a PVP event. Typically no one in their right mind attacks anyone for a win that is less than 25% weaker than you. The current rival list makes the loss rate for PVP about 35-50%. Hence if you spend gold and chase after weak syn and individual awards why would we gree if we need to spend double what we did in last war to achieve our results?

So was this change really about bringing a change to game or setting up any future PVP to see more failed hits and more gold spent in PVP events? The peeps close to hitting the mark where those concern about getting bricks. Who's gonna waste hits for bricks with a good failure rate.

I'd like to hear from CJ or Jerle about the logic and whether the Def range stat will be opened up even more or you will hear a lot of complaints of a gold grab.

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Originally Posted by hexie

You can protect your building income for free!11! - just collect on time! :cool:

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You didn't read me correctly. It's not all about protecting my buildings. It about why would I spend gold to increase my stats now. if I have 5m in stats and see other players with 5m in stats or spend gold and have 10m in stats and see other players with 10m in stats. What did I gain by spending gold?

That's my question. And since I don't see how I gain, I don't see why I should spend more gold. I think that's a rational line of thought.

Actually, it was a point of honor to be the best/strongest stat player in my region of levels. Are you without honor? Sounds like it. It was the goal of any good player to have the best hood, with the best IPH, and the highest stats. They have just deleted/negated the purpose and possibilitie of being the best. I am only level 118, but I have a lot of 200's-250's now on my rivals list. In many ways this is a giveaway to the players who were doing poorly and leveled up too high and too fast. Gree hates its longterm good players for some very strange reason. You will say income based as well.... less than half of my IPH is the best I have seen in the 200 up levels.

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Originally Posted by Zendfrim

and once again your name fits just right. That's forward thinking.

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LOL. Reminds me when Apple Mac Guy told the fake Molly Maguire that he was inconsequential to conversation.;)

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Originally Posted by reticlover

Easy fix, make the rival list open to every player from lvl 1 to 250. So that every one is on same playing field

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You must not rob very much... Do you enjoy having to load up 150 crappy hoods to find someone worth robbing? Why would you want to wade through garbage to find a gem (pun intended) when you could cruise around some decent neighborhoods and visit some Nightclubs while you're out.

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Originally Posted by Didas

I don't do a ton of robbing, but after thinking about the new system, here's my take on it.

If everyone on your rival list can rob you and you can rob everyone on your list, the only way to come out ahead is if you have a lower IPH than your rivals. That way, you have less to lose than your rivals. In other words, you want to have a high stat/IPH ratio.

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Nope. You can rob 20 people with half your IPH and make more than those 20 people can take off you the next day.

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Originally Posted by Didas

One way to do better in the game of rob or be robbed is to raise your stats while keeping your current IPH. Improving your stats would presumably get you access to stronger rivals with higher IPH that you can steal from. The other way to win the game would be to sell all your buildings so you have nothing to steal from. But in that case, you wouldn't need to rob because you have nothing to spend the cash on.

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...except that IPH is taken into account when building YOUR rival list, so if you sell your hood, you get worse targets and can't rob as much ever day. (yes, IPH is only part of the equation, and it's not enough)

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Originally Posted by Didas

As far as I can tell, the change forces people to rob others in order to make up for losses from being robbed.

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Ding Ding Ding

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Originally Posted by Didas

It screws campers who don't have high stats compared to their IPH. It also screws older accounts who have spent a long time building up their hoods but haven't kept up with the recent stat mega-inflation.

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It doesn't screw anyone who is willing to rob back what they lost that day, except now that is quite a lot easier than it used to be because you don't have to wade through 30 minutes of garbage to find a decent target.

(not an exceptional target that you want to go to war with for the next week. Just a decent target. Half your IPH with buildings up seems to be easy to find, now. We are at war with everyone, now. Constant battle on all fronts requires time spent robbing people back every day)

Iph isn't because I see no one on my rival list close to my iph, most are less than 20% of mine. I spent a lot of good being nearly untouchable, I was robbed once every 2/3months at most. Now they change the whole dynamic of the game making my gold spend worthless. The only people this is good for are people who aren't able to hold iph and those super minis who get strong for free sitting in high syns.
I agree with murf and zend and will not spend another penny now as it will not effect anything I am able to do anymore.

Poo hands boards his party bus and goes home......u coming Pedro?

Yep. Buildings are left uncollected and I'm leaving the game.
All aboard the party bus...

http://youtu.be/6Zbi0XmGtMw

I think he likes it

The change to the rival list is one of the worst changes made to this game. Everyone can expect to be robbed now regardless of your level and stats. Players took pride in building up their IPH and stats that prevented people from robbing them much with the old rival list, but now that the new rival list has been pushed out, this is no longer true and it defeats one of the main essences of this game.

I, and I'm sure there will be many, will just simply stop playing this game now and will refuse to collect my buildings as a sign of protest until the old rival list is put back. If not done soon, I will create a poll that will show that the majority feel like this, apart from the players with no IPH who are the only ones who benefit from this change. This is a smack in the face to all your loyal and long standing players... EPIC FAIL!!!!

And the reason is, this rival list change sucks. Forget about looking for people to rob for a minute, and just look at another thing.... What are syndicates supposed to do for bricks anymore? I just looked through my rival list for 10 minutes, and didn't see one person I even could attack, let alone could attack and be certian I'd win.

Why does gree insist on "fixing" something that isn't broken when there's other thing that could require attention?

Go ahead gree, keep catering to the few with piles of cash (why else would they make a stupid change like this unless someone with cash to burn asked for it?) and after too long, those "few" will be the only ones left...

PS, I guess they could just sell us a brick for 5 gold (sarcasm)

I'm not worried about being robbed that's part of the game it just pisses me of that I can no longer earn bricks for my team as every body seems to be stronger than me because I have a high iph

No bricks for war and no uzis for boss... And with the new rivals list no need to work on iph or stats :D