12 hour amnesty comment got slammed!!!!!!

[Razors]

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG

SUPER AFRO you got SLAMMED!!!!! By MR CJ54 you TROLL hahahaha


CJ you are DA MAN!!!!! remember the rap group ONYX SLAM DAT TA TA DAT TA TA Let the boys be boys


Wow Super fro got SHAVED haha, So why you complaining was OSW just trimmed to a group of crappy accounts led by a naughty naughty boy hehehe that's another story.

[Turkey Bacon]

I used babblefish to translate your post:

Impressive

Super Afro, you cad you were handily disarmed by the moderator.

CJ you are quite the gentleman, if you recall the 90's hip hop ensemble onyx's single "Slam" is akin to what you did to user Super Afro.

Amazing Super Afro you were quite slighted, however why are you complaining about OSW who are filled with inferior hacked accounts led by a less than honest leader, but we can discuss this at a later date.

[Razors]

I couldn't have said it better , lol

[Allday]

I used babblefish to translate your post:

Impressive

Super Afro, you cad you were handily disarmed by the moderator.

CJ you are quite the gentleman, if you recall the 90's hip hop ensemble onyx's single "Slam" is akin to what you did to user Super Afro.

Amazing Super Afro you were quite slighted, however why are you complaining about OSW who are filled with inferior hacked accounts led by a less than honest leader, but we can discuss this at a later date.
Lol no need to translate for razor. I think everyone got his point lol

[Allday]

LMAO funny stuff

[Mastert55!]

i used babblefish to translate your post:

Impressive

super afro, you cad you were handily disarmed by the moderator.

Cj you are quite the gentleman, if you recall the 90's hip hop ensemble onyx's single "slam" is akin to what you did to user super afro.

Amazing super afro you were quite slighted, however why are you complaining about osw who are filled with inferior hacked accounts led by a less than honest leader, but we can discuss this at a later date.

hahahahahahaahhaah

[Allday]

I used babblefish to translate your post:

Impressive

Super Afro, you cad you were handily disarmed by the moderator.

CJ you are quite the gentleman, if you recall the 90's hip hop ensemble onyx's single "Slam" is akin to what you did to user Super Afro.

Amazing Super Afro you were quite slighted, however why are you complaining about OSW who are filled with inferior hacked accounts led by a less than honest leader, but we can discuss this at a later date.
Bro, don't speak for razor.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHiFzE9aVDQ#

[Razors]

Hilarious, !!!!

[Turkey Bacon]

Bro, don't speak for razor.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHiFzE9aVDQ#

One...Im not your Bro.....

Two....holy schizo 3 replies to one post, is your name danielle? Did we bone?

[Hooligany]

I only see moderators abisingbtheir rights.
If Ben them we can't trust to do a fair job, it's the end.
Goodbye modern war.
Cj friends will still prevail n remain champions. Ban me if u want as I know u may.
Continue playing the game urself. We don't care if u r in sup or not. We do to care if u have test accounts or not. We don't care if u have lost ur responsibility as an employee or even integrity.

Good luck.

[Crusher kong]

Yup, revenue goes down, refunds go up and consumer fraud starts getting discussed. How exactly did sup know how many accounts were banned? Perhaps the shills, or gree independent contractors and perhaps speed dumps direct line to gree?


I only see moderators abisingbtheir rights.
If Ben them we can't trust to do a fair job, it's the end.
Goodbye modern war.
Cj friends will still prevail n remain champions. Ban me if u want as I know u may.
Continue playing the game urself. We don't care if u r in sup or not. We do to care if u have test accounts or not. We don't care if u have lost ur responsibility as an employee or even integrity.

Good luck.

[Razors]

I only see moderators abisingbtheir rights.
If Ben them we can't trust to do a fair job, it's the end.
Goodbye modern war.
Cj friends will still prevail n remain champions. Ban me if u want as I know u may.
Continue playing the game urself. We don't care if u r in sup or not. We do to care if u have test accounts or not. We don't care if u have lost ur responsibility as an employee or even integrity.

Good luck.

this has nothing to do with CJ, CJ is cleaning up the streets of Modern War, he has done nothing wrong and he has not sided with one group over another, He has spoken unbiased and he is trying to remove the hacks, cheats and the ones that feel they should be allowed to play amongst those who have invested in this game time and money.

There is no reason to ban you if your game is legit, if its not legit then well you deserve disappearing forever from this game platform,

its not that hard, no pity for anyone that has cheated, altered their game that goes against TOS of this application.

I feel if you pay to play and are true and respectful and have not broken the TOS then game on. its a clear and cut line no gray area.

I know I will be here tomorrow playing!

[Hooligany]

this has nothing to do with CJ, CJ is cleaning up the streets of Modern War, he has done nothing wrong and he has not sided with one group over another, He has spoken unbiased and he is trying to remove the hacks, cheats and the ones that feel they should be allowed to play amongst those who have invested in this game time and money.

There is no reason to ban you if your game is legit, if its not legit then well you deserve disappearing forever from this game platform,

its not that hard, no pity for anyone that has cheated, altered their game that goes against TOS of this application.

I feel if you pay to play and are true and respectful and have not broken the TOS then game on. its a clear and cut line no gray area.

I know I will be here tomorrow playing!

Yes n the sup accounts are spared. Way to go

[Razors]

Yup, revenue goes down, refunds go up and consumer fraud starts getting discussed. How exactly did sup know how many accounts were banned? Perhaps the shills, or gree independent contractors and perhaps speed dumps direct line to gree?

New Account Huh, how many of yours are banned? don't dirty a thread with comments of bad will, WHY SHOULD HACKS BE ALLOWED IN THE GAME, OSW has a lot of games that are dirty, RA, CAG, and even KYS has these games, Health Regen, people getting Arctic Rigs that weren't in the game during the offer of the building,

and you say how, well learn the game, you can tell when someone got crappy buildings and a arctic rig pops up, or when someone is a low level, high mission and highstats, its common sense brother, not science, no bat phone in the cave, listen its black and white, you hack you get booted, no boohoo here its plain and simple.

I don't get why your even making this comment was your game banned?

[Razors]

Yes n the sup accounts are spared. Way to go

WHO?? You guys line up and talk BS, WHO???? SO MUCH BLAH BLAH BLAH WHO? Man Speak the words don't say the crap with no backing, wow, same thing each time you guys post, say who and they get reported, state the name, CJ PLEASE LOOK INTO THESE ACCOUNTS THAT HOOLIGANY WILL LIST FOR US.........

your next post better have names cause your just mad that probably your account got banned. hackers TAKE A HIKE!!!

[Amxze]

Jajajajajaja

[wwwjason]

this has nothing to do with CJ, CJ is cleaning up the streets of Modern War, he has done nothing wrong and he has not sided with one group over another, He has spoken unbiased and he is trying to remove the hacks, cheats and the ones that feel they should be allowed to play amongst those who have invested in this game time and money.

There is no reason to ban you if your game is legit, if its not legit then well you deserve disappearing forever from this game platform,

its not that hard, no pity for anyone that has cheated, altered their game that goes against TOS of this application.

I feel if you pay to play and are true and respectful and have not broken the TOS then game on. its a clear and cut line no gray area.

I know I will be here tomorrow playing!

100% agree, if you cheated in anyway then ban the account, I'll still be here tomorrow playing as well razor

1. Allday you are my bro

[Hooligany]

New Account Huh, how many of yours are banned? don't dirty a thread with comments of bad will, WHY SHOULD HACKS BE ALLOWED IN THE GAME, OSW has a lot of games that are dirty, RA, CAG, and even KYS has these games, Health Regen, people getting Arctic Rigs that weren't in the game during the offer of the building,

and you say how, well learn the game, you can tell when someone got crappy buildings and a arctic rig pops up, or when someone is a low level, high mission and highstats, its common sense brother, not science, no bat phone in the cave, listen its black and white, you hack you get booted, no boohoo here its plain and simple.

I don't get why your even making this comment was your game banned?

Wow how do u know all these? R u a hacker? Or do u have info of every of those players account?
Or do gree reports to u? Impressive but way too much that leaks y u guys r champions of the champion.

[Crusher kong]

No, this guy is a cretin. "Dirty the thread". Lol. Being in the same thread as you makes me want to take a shower.


Wow how do u know all these? R u a hacker? Or do u have info of every of those players account?
Or do gree reports to u? Impressive but way too much that leaks y u guys r champions of the champion.

[Allday]

Wow how do u know all these? R u a hacker? Or do u have info of every of those players account?
Or do gree reports to u? Impressive but way too much that leaks y u guys r champions of the champion.
I'm actually impressed you are no troll with over 400 posts. Stupid on the other hand

[Razors]

if your game was banned then please don't cry about it, its a fair judgement and a fair punishment, when someone pays $1000's and you pay nothing then there is no comparison and you should be punished in front of the entire group, and also the leader and the faction should be banned and destroyed.


how is this so hard to understand. maybe the reason you don't see others getting banned is maybe the stories you heard were just stories and the accounts that are not banned are just that investments of hard earned money paying to play. those who have accounts with any adjustments, any hacks, any cheats and any form of operational alteration should be banned and even more if it were possible, its stealing.

and if you drank he koolaid that good old Joe gave you and you think that those stories are still true then well your in for a shocker cause the koolaid has run dry and Joe well is on the other side as always its funny when people leave joes ranks to come to other teams and they cant believe how all the stories were lies

I don't know how people believe so many lies and still believe its truth, to me it seems like severe brainwashing but again being Naïve is just silly especially when the stories are not even possible


did anyone see the pink elephant?

[Razors]

Wow how do u know all these? R u a hacker? Or do u have info of every of those players account?
Or do gree reports to u? Impressive but way too much that leaks y u guys r champions of the champion.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?????? Common Sense, you didn't think you were sneaky did you? cause your not. and lets examine the trail of hacks, its like how we learned which bone is connected to the other bone in grade school here we go . . . . .

CAG has always been known as Hackers, they disbanded and went to OSW and RA, and RA broke up and went to OSW and KYS, NEED I SAY MORE OR DO YOU NEED ME TO DRAW A MAP LOL

[heatnet]

In that case why aren't sup hackers being banned?
Sup are the biggest hackers of the game.

If you guys remember quite some time ago?
someone posted on forum that mickey from sup 1 could access other people's account.

So in the end Sup is the biggest hackers of the game.

I am calling it quits for this game.

[Speed ump]

Funny how you guys always worry about how we get info, rather than applauding the efforts to remove cheaters from the game, which benefits all legit players. The only ones who could possibly be against this are the cheaters themselves. Maybe it's not time for a few to leave as they say, maybe they've had that choice made for them.the cheaters have always trolled our efforts against them here. Back in the day we reported any we found in the game, they were much more obvious back then. You guys just hate that you've been discovered. There's one sure way not to worry, don't cheat.

[Razors]

No, this guy is a cretin. "Dirty the thread". Lol. Being in the same thread as you makes me want to take a shower.

Wrong your always wrong I AM A SPARTAN!!, I am from Central Greece, Creten is from the southern island, I didn't know trolls knew geography, lets talk I am always happy to discuss history especially since this WD is shown in my motherland, well at least the games that were not Banned will be there, Tell me Crusher Kong and Hooligany, will you be there or will you wait to see whats happening on the forum again if you didn't cheat and hack you have Nothing to worry about, nothing at all, I promise you this

[Razors]

In that case why aren't sup hackers being banned?
Sup are the biggest hackers of the game.

If you guys remember quite some time ago?
someone posted on forum that mickey from sup 1 could access other people's account.

So in the end Sup is the biggest hackers of the game.

I am calling it quits for this game.

Heatnet just do everyone a favor and call it quits, I don't think you have a choice, huh you try to log into your game and it said contact gree support huh? forced quitting is not honorable, just better off never post here again

['MAU' Mirsad-Ra]

Razors!! You sound really Angry and Rude!! Game/Forum getting to you?


Heatnet just do everyone a favor and call it quits, I don't think you have a choice, huh you try to log into your game and it said contact gree support huh? forced quitting is not honorable, just better off never post here again

[Badvock]

Hay guys can you wait a minute, I have to go to the store to by more Coke and Popcorn. I don't want to miss any of this.

[Crusher kong]

Someone just told me razors is famous for some very vile statements he made regarding African Americans being responsible for all the crime in the us. Sounds like a model sup citizen.


Razors!! You sound really Angry and Rude!! Game/Forum getting to you?

[Hooligany]

Hay guys can you wait a minute, I have to go to the store to by more Coke and Popcorn. I don't want to miss any of this.

When more info are provided on sup supporting hacks n glitch they will either be closed or removed or banned.
Ur popcorn won't last long enough

[CJ54]

Guys, chill please.

[Mastert55!]

I am taking bets to see who has the most hackers and which team will loose the most players in the shake down tomorrow. AS STATED IN MY THREAD

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?91987-Only-12Hrs-left-Now-Taking-Bets

[Badvock]

My Popcorn will last if I blow my WD budget on it. Lets see.

Packet of Corn Kernals = $0.55au
2L of Coke = $3.00au (2 for $6 special)

Budget = $100au

I'm going to a happy Popcorn Piggy :)

[Mastert55!]

Guys, chill please.

DON'T TELL ME TO CHILL BRAHHH!!! YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!! YOU DON'T KNOW MY LIFE, WHAT IVE BEEN THROUGH OR WHAT IVE SEEN!!!!!! IM CRAZY BRAH. SOMEBODY HOLD ME BACK!!!

hahaha just kidding. And agreed CJ, lets take this to the battlefield

[MAD NUGGETT]

It's a pretty effective WD strategy. Remove 19 OSW players 2 days before war. Hating it. Haha

[Amxze]

This WD is gonna be very interesting

[Mastert55!]

Yes, with SUP fed up and OSW full of hackers waiting to be banned. We shall see what goes down in 10:35Hrs.

[Hooligany]

Yes
Looking forget to see if sup1 n 2 mean what they say.
Sitting out of the wd

[Speed ump]

Don't recruit hackers, it's not a problem I guess. OSW wasn't the only only faction with some. Just by far had the most. Sounds like tomorrow they will have something in place to ban ones that wernt discovered also. That's some of the best news I've heard In a long time.

[Mastert55!]

Yes
Looking forget to see if sup1 n 2 mean what they say.
Sitting out of the wd

Unless Gree gets their sh*t straight.

[heatnet]

Yes
Looking forget to see if sup1 n 2 mean what they say.
Sitting out of the wd

Or will they change name just to throw all of us off guard?

[CJ54]

Yes, with SUP fed up and OSW full of hackers waiting to be banned. We shall see what goes down in 10:35Hrs.

All kinks entirely worked out will probably take more than 12 hours, to be honest, and this isn't just the current situation or two factions or whatever. We're aiming the bazooka at a bigger target than that. I'd rather wait until this was in place before saying this, but the gist is that we're putting in a server fix that will (gods of technology willing) keep this kind of situation from ever being an issue again. Period. For or from anybody regardless of whatever faction they're currently in (and most of our players hop around so often that it's usually wrong to make it about faction A vs. faction B, honestly). There will probably be a couple of false positives and we'll have to sort those out, or other server weirdness, etc.

[Mastert55!]

Why don't you throw a barracuda filter in your servers, its a crazy Firewall so people can just "tap into" your servers and alter some codes.

[ScrewThis]

All kinks entirely worked out will probably take more than 12 hours, to be honest, and this isn't just the current situation or two factions or whatever. We're aiming the bazooka at a bigger target than that. I'd rather wait until this was in place before saying this, but the gist is that we're putting in a server fix that will (gods of technology willing) keep this kind of situation from ever being an issue again. Period. For or from anybody regardless of whatever faction they're currently in (and most of our players hop around so often that it's usually wrong to make it about faction A vs. faction B, honestly). There will probably be a couple of false positives and we'll have to sort those out, or other server weirdness, etc.

Why only now CJ. After how many years of people complaining about hackers and cheats? But one post from SUP threatening not to participate in WD unless OSW is disarmed and the whole of Gree comes out fighting. What's going on? What's the real relationship between Gree and SUP?

And - I'm just musing here - I wonder if SUP called for action only after they cleaned their own house first. I heard SUP 1 and 2 merged. Maybe because they had to boot so many unsavory accounts first? If a certain SUP player from Ireland gets banned for having 13 DBJs (yes they do stack because you're not supposed to have more than one, why don't you model it in a test environment), only then I will believe you are treating us all fairly.

By the way I'm not in a top 10 but spend enough on this game. It isn't just about the top factions.

[Mastert55!]

Why only now CJ. After how many years of people complaining about hackers and cheats? But one post from SUP threatening not to participate in WD unless OSW is disarmed and the whole of Gree comes out fighting. What's going on? What's the real relationship between Gree and SUP?

And - I'm just musing here - I wonder if SUP called for action only after they cleaned their own house first. I heard SUP 1 and 2 merged. Maybe because they had to boot so many unsavory accounts first? If a certain SUP player from Ireland gets banned for having 13 DBJs (yes they do stack because you're not supposed to have more than one, why don't you model it in a test environment), only then I will believe you are treating us all fairly.

By the way I'm not in a top 10 but spend enough on this game. It isn't just about the top factions.

Didnt you already get banned like 4 times today?

[ScrewThis]

Didnt you already get banned like 4 times today?

No. Quite an infantile response from you, though, to a legitimate observation from me. But then again that's the SUP tactic we all know. Someone says something sensible and you guys become personal and deflect. Just like little kids.

[Mastert55!]

No. Quite an infantile response from you, though, to a legitimate observation from me. But then again that's the SUP tactic we all know. Someone says something sensible and you guys become personal and deflect. Just like little kids.

Yes, blame SUP for MY infantile response, just because I'm part of their ranks doesn't mean I speak for them. Seriously, your account has 7 posts and it started in May. Unless you were banned JUST RECENTLY, your account would have been a bit older with more posts. JUST SAYIN, also there is a guy running around making accounts sh*t talking about SUP, so you can clearly see how I can to my infantile conclusion as to ask if you were recently banned.

[ScrewThis]

Yes, blame SUP for MY infantile response, just because I'm part of their ranks doesn't mean I speak for them. Seriously, your account has 7 posts and it started in May. Unless you were banned JUST RECENTLY, your account would have been a bit older with more posts. JUST SAYIN, also there is a guy running around making accounts sh*t talking about SUP, so you can clearly see how I can to my infantile conclusion as to ask if you were recently banned.

So the ONLY reason why I would have a new account would because another one was banned? Grow up. I never saw the need in my 2 years in the game to participate on here. Until recently. I've been around far longer than my account suggests. Funny how you guys always call in others to present evidence but you go around making all sorts of allegations, the kind you normally want people to back up with facts.

[CJ54]

Argh guys, chill. ST, I'm writing a response to the reasonable question, if you guys can hold off for a sec.

[Mastert55!]

So the ONLY reason why I would have a new account would because another one was banned? Grow up. I never saw the need in my 2 years in the game to participate on here. Until recently. I've been around far longer than my account suggests. Funny how you guys always call in others to present evidence but you go around making all sorts of allegations, the kind you normally want people to back up with facts.

I sincerely apologize for my accusation.

Also, enough with the conspiracy, I'm sitting at home watching netflix and posting on the forum on people threads. We don't have a secret chat where we conspire against people and set up a plan to throw down facts or to yell at people. I know absolutely nothing of that other than the faction general chat with 120 people posting random stuff.

Sorry CJ, didn't see that till I posted.

[ScrewThis]

I sincerely apologize for my accusation.

Cool man. Water under the bridge.

[Amxze]

Watch r u watching lol

[Mastert55!]

Watch r u watching lol

Im finishing Top Gear Season 20

[Amxze]

Nice lol what cars they using in that episode u watching

[Mastert55!]

Nice lol what cars they using in that episode u watching

Lamborghini Aventador and the Sesto Elemento.......OMFG :o

[CJ54]

Why only now CJ. After how many years of people complaining about hackers and cheats? But one post from SUP threatening not to participate in WD unless OSW is disarmed and the whole of Gree comes out fighting. What's going on? What's the real relationship between Gree and SUP?

And - I'm just musing here - I wonder if SUP called for action only after they cleaned their own house first. I heard SUP 1 and 2 merged. Maybe because they had to boot so many unsavory accounts first? If a certain SUP player from Ireland gets banned for having 13 DBJs (yes they do stack because you're not supposed to have more than one, why don't you model it in a test environment), only then I will believe you are treating us all fairly.

By the way I'm not in a top 10 but spend enough on this game. It isn't just about the top factions.

Okay, to start with, a quick sad note on the state of internet app security the whole world over: you're always playing tag with the hackers/ exploiters. It IS possible to never have anything in your application that cannot be taken advantage of, but that requires that both the application and the medium that it lives in never change. Change (which is a requisite part of online mmo games, in the form of content updates and infrastructure changes) will inevitably release both unforseen bugs and occasional potential exploits/ hacks. That is the way it works for everybody big and small, not just us. I'm not going to make a value judgement about our track record versus others, I'm just saying that the general problem is the same the world over.

We have not been sitting on our bums over here for the last X number of years in regards to these things. Vulnerabilities pop up, they become apparent, we squash them. Sometimes that takes longer and sometimes that happens fast, which depends on a whole bunch of different factors that I'd be glad to go into some time when it isn't midnight my time. The point is, the "why now" question is a little off since it has been a running battle in all the games since we switched them on.

As for "why now" with the current effort, it's large scale and kind of scary and took a lot of work and we would have preferred not to do it, but frankly we're tired of seeing the SAME basic issues pop up. The place to put the metaphorical crowbar may change, but the results often look the same, because what is good in the game doesn't change much. So people go after the same stuff when they get a chance; high stat items and certain types of boost effect.

The current solution has synced up rather fortunately/unfortunately with a (so far limited number) of cases where someone found a way to get more of certain items than they should have. This was NOT restricted to one faction; the bans that already happened were NOT restricted to one faction and we are NOT done yet but we will **** well have a clean WD or die trying. We were made aware of the issue previous to the forum post you're referencing; contrary to popular opinion on the forum we don't jump when any particular faction says jump (see recent hoopla about FA/LE glitch items and our resolution not including banning people for that, despite that being asked quite vehemently of us. Those threads never got taken down or anything).* I have no idea on the SUP merge as I make it a rule for my own sanity not to follow faction politics.

If you have any other questions or concerns about that, I'll try to answer them, but that should answer most of it.

*What we do care about is when our players are really upset about something. Before anyone shoots me down for that, *we can't always do exactly what is asked of us* but we do make changes or move to address things. The problem is, this is a pvp game, which means we're inevitably going to get claims of favoritism in some cases because peoples' interests are often directly opposed to other peoples' interests. We do not actually have a horse in the race. Our goal is as clean a playing field as possible within the existing bounds of the game. That's it, that's all. A lot of people over here have spent many hours of their lives working towards that for you guys, and if we get it wrong sometimes we get it wrong sometimes, but that is the goal.

[Gen CheeBye]

Wow. Just wow CJ.

[Mastert55!]

Thank you CJ.

There are only a couple games in existence that are as complex as this code wise. Of course there will be kinks, but not to this degree. Its a HUGE game with millions of people playing, anything can happen. A group of hackers gained access into PayPal's main website and also into the FBI's website for Christ sake!!! Lets all cut the guys some slack and let him sleep. I just hope that you and the rest of the developers find all the POS's that are using energy glitches and regen hacks, that is absolutely intolerable.

Also please remember that 99% of the community is fed up with events costing INSANE amounts of gold. Just recently, there was a LTQ costing 7-8 VAULTS of gold to finish, that I think is GREE putting a gun to their own head and playing Russian rullet with themselves. Seriously, please cut it back a little, and maybe sometimes listen to your customers, even if there are millions.

[CJ54]

Also, on a personal note, it is quite often a serious bummer navigating the murky drama waters. Pretty much everybody from the top guilds or who is involved on the forums are good people who really care deeply about the state of the game, regardless of who the "bad guy" is that week or moment. That goes for SUP, OSR/previously Templars/Emperors, and everyone on down.

[Gen CheeBye]

Anyways, we shall see where this will lead us come WD weekend.

I will reserve my judgements till then.

[Amxze]

Lamborghini Aventador and the Sesto Elemento.......OMFG :o

Dream cars witch I can't get lol

[ScrewThis]

Dream cars witch I can't get lol

Some guys here only have to stop buying gold and hey presto! An Avantador will be within reach...

[Blodiea]

I was kinda hopeing to see sup sit this one out, I believe that the top 50 teams would of picked up there spending slack and prove to gree that there money isn't better then the masses

[SimplyminiMW]

I was kinda hopeing to see sup sit this one out, I believe that the top 50 teams would of picked up there spending slack and prove to gree that there money isn't better then the masses

Actually I'd estimate that the top 11-100 teams spend more a month (combined) then the top 1-10 teams (combine). If not more then pretty damn close to each other.

[Bobar]

though i dont agree on all arguements from you, cj, i want to make a compliment. the way you interact within this topic is great and should get standard. - well done