Attn: Gree

[Sol Invictus]

http://i.minus.com/iuPUTYTI9NfsL.jpg



So, you deleted all of the 11+ threads.

What does that mean? Is it a big middle finger to everyone who love this game enough to want to see improvements so they have a reason to keep playing, or is it a sign that you've received the message and you're willing to work with us?

A great community of players have formed around this game. Many of them are becoming disgruntled, and increasingly so.

You could solve everything if you just addressed us.

Pwetty pwease?

[09cobaltss]

Hey at least we know they saw the message. Whether they read it or understand is the question

[Reversal]

Hey at least we know they saw the message. Whether they read it or understand is the question

I second this.

[Elita]

http://i.minus.com/iuPUTYTI9NfsL.jpg



So, you deleted all of the 11+ threads.

What does that mean? Is it a big middle finger to everyone who love this game enough to want to see improvements so they have a reason to keep playing, or is it a sign that you've received the message and you're willing to work with us?

A great community of players have formed around this game. Many of them are becoming disgruntled, and increasingly so.

You could solve everything if you just addressed us.

Pwetty pwease?

Hey ya'll,

We read your threads and your ideas. Some of the things physically cannot be done with the current engine and some things can. Its totally fine to have a movement so long as it doesn't involve boycotting the game on the forums.

Thanks!

[Reversal]

I'm saying with the amount of money you guys are making you guys are surely capable of upgrading your "Engine" am I wrong?

[Sol Invictus]

so long as it doesn't involve boycotting the game on the forums.

And a lot of us don't want to boycott, which is why less menacing methods were pursued at first.

But I hope you understand that people felt a boycott was necessary because they felt that you guys haven't been listening to anything we've been saying for weeks/months now.

Thank you for responding. It goes a long way in calming tensions.



Any details on the kinds of things that "can be done" as well as things you would be merciful enough to give us?

[smujica93]

Well looks like I was only half right about the talks of gem boycotts resulting in bans. I do agree with cobalt that this is a (very very) small step in the right direction. However, "We read your threads and your ideas. Some of the things physically cannot be done with the current engine and some things can" sounds like a civil way of saying "We read your threads and ideas.....and will continue to give no ****s."

[09cobaltss]

What is the point of responding, Elita, if you just create more questions than answers? Maybe a response such as we realize these are the things suggested and this is what can and will be done. And then explain what can't be done. I feel that this was just a way of trying to squash a major loss of revenue as opposed to a sign of good faith. I hope I am wrong

[smujica93]

It really would not have been any trouble at all to say, "Hey guys, I appreciate your suggestions, but X, Y, and Z are not possible to do at the moment." Anything would have been more informative than what she said.

[ShadowDash1089]

Hey ya'll,

We read your threads and your ideas. Some of the things physically cannot be done with the current engine and some things can. Its totally fine to have a movement so long as it doesn't involve boycotting the game on the forums.

Thanks!

Hi elita,
We all appreciate the reply - it means much as customers to not be ignored.
just one clarification - the 11+ movement is made from pure game supporters and hardcore players of the community, tthere wasnt any attempt to harm, only to make things better so our friends will continue to enjoy and stick around (especially not game boycott)
We all act from care for this game, we will very much appreciate a way to co-operate instead of creating threads with our ideas in the forum (looking forward for things that doesnt happen always provoke for action and we've been waiting for long).
please consider this information and do whats right with it!
Thanks :)

[09cobaltss]

Elita put up a poll months ago. And what has been added since then? Guild gifting? That's a slap in the face

[Elita]

Hi elita,
We all appreciate the reply - it means much as customers to not be ignored.
just one clarification - the 11+ movement is made from pure game supporters and hardcore players of the community, tthere wasnt any attempt to harm, only to make things better so our friends will continue to enjoy and stick around (especially not game boycott)
We all act from care for this game, we will very much appreciate a way to co-operate instead of creating threads with our ideas in the forum (looking forward for things that doesnt happen always provoke for action and we've been waiting for long).
please consider this information and do whats right with it!
Thanks :)


Hello, hello,

Please feel free to post the 11+ threads as long as you can leave out the boycotting clause :)

In regards to the other questions, I will address them soon. Thanks for being patient!

[Sol Invictus]

Couldn't you have just deleted the offending posts?
Now my hilarious pwning of busteroaf is gone forever.


And you do realize that it wasn't people in 11+ that were talking about boycotting, right? It was all the people criticizing us with "your tactics are dumb if yous was serius then youd boycott" and whatnot?

[bosskiller]

Hello, hello,

Please feel free to post the 11+ threads as long as you can leave out the boycotting clause :)

In regards to the other questions, I will address them soon. Thanks for being patient!

How soon? I don't mean to be rude, but it seems like you say "sorry I haven't been posting but I will now!" and then you don't. I hope that something will be done. But I'm glad that we are heard :)

[Kyle124]

Hello, hello,

Please feel free to post the 11+ threads as long as you can leave out the boycotting clause :)

In regards to the other questions, I will address them soon. Thanks for being patient!

Elita if you work on the game of knights and dragons may i request one thing please.
Since the level fifteen epic boss has 18 thousand hp may i request to take it down to 15,675 hp? Because ive tried and tried and i almost beat it once it has 1328 hp but the damage was to high for me please do.
Thank you for youre time i hope you may change it.

[bosskiller]

Elita if you work on the game of knights and dragons may i request one thing please.
Since the level fifteen epic boss has 18 thousand hp may i request to take it down to 15,675 hp? Because ive tried and tried and i almost beat it once it has 1328 hp but the damage was to high for me please do.
Thank you for youre time i hope you may change it.

The point of the EB is you have to work up to it. They are not going to make it easier because one person can't do it. You will make it eventually. If you can't beat level 15, you don't deserve the armor.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

I currently have a note in legion chat regarding the guild war key chest idea. If your in another guild and would like to copy paste this message in your line chat note i would appreciate any feedback from knd players.

I will be posting legions feedback in this thread if its not deleted.


I would love legions feedback on new rewards for guild wars top 11 to 100. Here's my idea.

Get rid of dark prince chest and make it a guild war chest keys only, no gems.

→Guild war chest would give 5x to 10x chance for epic.
→The higher your rank the more keys you get.
→Gem chest would still exist with 2x to 3x chance for epic. Gw chest would have same rewards as gem quest. No gw epics allowed in gw chest.

Its a simple fix and I'd be happy with a lottery ticket idea for an epic over a plus eb armor or fusion boost.

Gree has already done similar rewards for the special quest they put out for beast chest and winter chest. I dont see why this cant be implemented.

[firefly333]

What is the point of responding, Elita, if you just create more questions than answers? Maybe a response such as we realize these are the things suggested and this is what can and will be done. And then explain what can't be done. I feel that this was just a way of trying to squash a major loss of revenue as opposed to a sign of good faith. I hope I am wrong

LIKE

I would like to know what CAN be done. Not just some can and some cant be done.

[Sol Invictus]

To give credit, I believe Eunuchorn proposed this idea many weeks ago in the suggestions thread.
Or maybe it was someone else.

I like the idea, but I suspect that top teners are going to balk at the idea of potentially not getting a war epic.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

To give credit, I believe Eunuchorn proposed this idea many weeks ago in the suggestions thread.
Or maybe it was someone else.

I like the idea, but I suspect that top teners are going to balk at the idea of potentially not getting a war epic.

Well legion is a top 50 guild so thats 1 down 39 to go.

A better odd key chest gives people hope for a plus version epic. Hope makes people happy.
the only thing that worries me is gree will think it's too giving to make a person who puts in effort gets better chances then the people who buy gems. If they really wanted too they could make the 5x gw chest for gems too but maby double the gems of the lower chance chest for 1 chance to open.

Otherwise you might as well not war and use gems. Giving people a chance to open chest for gaming is fun and would keep me coming back to knd to see the next gw epic and who knows I may move up to a top ten guild when they release a good stat magic gw armor for non plus version.

[Sol Invictus]

The only demand that I could imagine being restricted is an expanded kingdom.

Just do what they did in Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past


http://i.minus.com/ib0NKuRq63xb6P.gif


You're welcome, GREE.
I'll send you a bill for my consulting fee.

[ZERO_07]

I'm guessing new maps and the hacker detection/prevention is too much to ask for. The rest sounds like easy fixes...

[busteroaf]

And a lot of us don't want to boycott, which is why less menacing methods were pursued at first.

But I hope you understand that people felt a boycott was necessary because they felt that you guys haven't been listening to anything we've been saying for weeks/months now.

Thank you for responding. It goes a long way in calming tensions.

Any details on the kinds of things that "can be done" as well as things you would be merciful enough to give us?

So, you didn't want to boycott, but some felt the boycott was necessary to get anything done... which is it? People didn't want to or people did? And if it was sheer talk of the boycott was what got their attention... an ACTUAL boycott would almost be guaranteed to get their attention. Hello? Are you listening? Look at what happened once talk of a gem boycott became the topic. They shut it down.


Couldn't you have just deleted the offending posts?
Now my hilarious pwning of busteroaf is gone forever.

And you do realize that it wasn't people in 11+ that were talking about boycotting, right? It was all the people criticizing us with "your tactics are dumb if yous was serius then youd boycott" and whatnot?

So again, it wasn't you guys talking about a boycott, then... why aren't those who feel hitting them in their pockets banned, and the whole 11+ movement applauded and a legit discussion, between the forum member and Gree, about what can and can't be done, happening?

Also, now I wish I had actually read the forums earlier when I had the chance and must have missed your hilarious pwning.

You still never were able to prove how your clearly superior reasoning made anything I said less true.

Let me put it in another way you may understand:

Continuing to support the game by purchasing and spending gems, while wanting change and being unhappy with the way things are, is the same as saying "the food here sucks. I hate this place. I'm never coming back. But then coming back a day later. You continue eating that ... what was it, moldy $10 burger that you preach about hating so much? You have the choice to not eat at Le Buster Bistro or whatever it was. Great name btw. But by continuing to spend money on something you don't like and want changes for, is asinine. Do you understand that? Does that analogy make any more sense to you? I still don't see how you can't understand since you had your "no gems until rewards are better"... but apparently the others don't either. They are still one in the same. You refuse to spend until they give you better rewards. You stopped coming Le Bistro and ordering the $10 burger. Good for you. The rest of your movement is clueless though.

[a MenTaL CaSe]

So, you didn't want to boycott, but some felt the boycott was necessary to get anything done... which is it? People didn't want to or people did? And if it was sheer talk of the boycott was what got their attention... an ACTUAL boycott would almost be guaranteed to get their attention. Hello? Are you listening?



So again, it wasn't you guys talking about a boycott, then... why aren't those who feel hitting them in their pockets banned, and the whole 11+ movement applauded?

Also, now I wish I had actually read the forums earlier when I had the chance and must have missed your hilarious pwning.

You still never were able to prove how your clearly superior reasoning made anything I said less true.

Let me put it in another way you may understand:

Continuing to support the game by purchasing and spending gems, while wanting change and being unhappy with the way things are, is the same as saying "the food here sucks. I hate this place. I'm never coming back."... but you still do. You continue eating that ... what was it, moldy $10 burger that you preach about hating so much? You have the choice to not eat at Le Buster Bistro or whatever it was. Great name btw. But by continuing to spend money on something you want changes for, is asinine. Do you understand that analogy? You might now with your "no gems until rewards are better"... but apparently the others don't understand that they are one in the same. You refuse to spend until they give you better rewards. You stopped coming Le Bistro and ordering the $10 burger. Good for you. The rest of your movement is clueless though.

Is there a block button? Skipping over his name is an option I suppose.

[PaIadineguru]

He's from ios, maybe if you put android only in the title hell go poof , or be banned for posting outside his os's threads

[tttoo]

Is there a block button? Skipping over his name is an option I suppose.

I want it too.

[Elita]

I've re-opened the thread and kept the other ones closed and added a note in the original post. Please try not to spam the forums with 4/5 of the same thread :)

Thanks!

[PaIadineguru]

Thank you elita, stay classy , most if us unwashed masses are exactly that :))

[Reversal]

Elita, I am going to respond to your duty as a Gree Representative.
I'm sure Gree wishes to provide a good customer satisfaction correct?

We, (The 11+ Movement) are the heart and core of the Knights and Dragons community be it Android or iOS.
We all share the same vision and goal: Improving the game that we love.
To give you a silent hint: "We know what people want because we are the people".

You have acknowledged that there are things that could use some work and could change whilst others cannot.
In this case I want to ask of you (As the Gree representative) the following:
If Gree is indeed willing to hear us out and take us seriously there can only be but one solution.

Let anyone from Gree who is responsible for the customer statisfaction/development on the game talk to our group on Line.
Line is a free-to-download App that anyone can download for their smartphone/tablet while yet still being a 100% anonymous.
This means there should be no issues whatsoever to stand in contact directly where we can hold an actual conversation instead of having a Forum between us.

I hereby invite you to add me to Line, my Line ID is ReversalKnD.
If you add me please contact me in the chat and I will invite you to our '+11 Movement Group' so we can have a chat about the current situation.

This the most efficient way to take care of this situation, please consider it as it will help both parties tremendously.
I will await your response.

[smujica93]

Elita, I am going to respond to your duty as a Gree Representative.
I'm sure Gree wishes to provide a good customer satisfaction correct?

We, (The 11+ Movement) are the heart and core of the Knights and Dragons community be it Android or iOS.
We all share the same vision and goal: Improving the game that we love.
To give you a silent hint: "We know what people want because we are the people".

You have acknowledged that there are things that could use some work and could change whilst others cannot.
In this case I want to ask of you (As the Gree representative) the following:
If Gree is indeed willing to hear us out and take us seriously there can only be but one solution.

Let anyone from Gree who is responsible for the customer statisfaction/development on the game talk to our group on Line.
Line is a free-to-download App that anyone can download for their smartphone/tablet while yet still being a 100% anonymous.
This means there should be no issues whatsoever to stand in contact directly where we can hold an actual conversation instead of having a Forum between us.

I hereby invite you to add me to Line, my Line ID is ReversalKnD.
If you add me please contact me in the chat and I will invite you to our '+11 Movement Group' so we can have a chat about the current situation.

This the most efficient way to take care of this situation, please consider it as it will help both parties tremendously.
I will await your response.

Thank you for doing this. Let's hope that a representative takes you up on your offer.

All we are asking for right now, Elita, is for a little more transparency. Hopefully, that will allow us to have a more mutually beneficial customer-business relationship.

[Skittle Stomper]

Thank you for doing this. Let's hope that a representative takes you up on your offer.

All we are asking for right now, Elita, is for a little more transparency. Hopefully, that will allow us to have a more mutually beneficial customer-business relationship.

We don't get transparency from the banks, why do you think Gree will give us any?

[smujica93]

We don't get transparency from the banks, why do you think Gree will give us any?

How is that relevant? You named a single counterexample out of the millions of customer-business relationships that there are in the world.

And for the record, I don't really think Gree will give us any (hence the "hopefully"). But, hey, a guy can dream ;)

[Skittle Stomper]

How is that relevant? You named a single counterexample out of the millions of customer-business relationships that there are in the world.

Ya dude, try reading other threads. Try reading other threads not on first 5 pages. Try critically thinking. It may hurt at first, but you'll be ok.

What about the world today makes you think Gree will do anything different than they've ever done. This is just getting sad, I feel bad for the Gree employees that have to read this drivel.

[smujica93]

Ya dude, try reading other threads. Try reading other threads not on first 5 pages. Try critically thinking. It may hurt at first, but you'll be ok.

What about the world today makes you think Gree will do anything different than they've ever done. This is just getting sad, I feel bad for the Gree employees that have to read this drivel.

You still didn't address my point. "The banks" was the best example you could come up with? I sure hope you're not in law school.

[PhoenixZee]

Hey ya'll,

We read your threads and your ideas. Some of the things physically cannot be done with the current engine and some things can. Its totally fine to have a movement so long as it doesn't involve boycotting the game on the forums.

Thanks!

Boycotting the game, or boycotting aspects of the game??

[King juju]

So you can protest...but you have to protest within their guidelines? Well they are based in china...A strong communist regime.

[EljayK]

So you can protest...but you have to protest within their guidelines? Well they are based in china...A strong communist regime.

Every country requires you to protest within guidelines. Don't be a moron. When you start protesting out of guidelines it's called a resistance. Pay attention to the world.

'Murica, land of the free, requires a protest PERMIT. All those wall street protests? Those people were being harassed by police for not filing permits. No one cared what they were doing or why they were standing there. They cared that an official signed a piece of paper.

However, this shouldn't detract from the fact that Gree's response is basically, "Hey. You can want things better. But you can't talk about us suffering consequences. Very obvious consequences that we deserve fully for our terrible business model and lack of concern."

Of course, their whole HQ is covered in smog. So it's probably hard to get work done sitting at a desk with a gas mask on 10 hours a day.

[Skittle Stomper]

I used to think the game might see actual improvement or new content or better war rewards. This was from over a year ago when I first started playing. You are all pretty humorous in your delusion though.

[King juju]

Change won't happen if thus is how they operate.

[Slayer 1]

Wow: Folks you're still not getting it.

The forums are a place where fans/players/those-retired-but-can't-let-it-go can speak, rant, cry, celebrate - whatever. It's part of the app/game build format. As long as you stay within the guidelines - which is the only thing the threads are policed for (liability and all that) - say whatever silliness you will.

However - boycotting may have an effect on sales and you will open yourself for complete removal/banishment if you persist.

Budgets: You know what those are, right? You're allocated so much $$$ to do whatever? That's what an app and development teams are given. "Make a game that does "x" - and funds are allocated.

This next part is a rather important one - put down the Cheetos and Red Bull.......

Software development lifecycle(s) are fit into a project management / project delivery framework. That being said, the content and future content of the game is already dictated and placed on a development path that has been agreed upon, resourced, and dictated a long time ago. Anticipated profit margins based upon application lifecycle and 'high-quality', non-repetitious traffic has already been calculated. At this point, K&D is on life support. Nothing major is going to be added. Live it, like it, love it, or hate it - but accept it.

It's a game. One - that in 2014 - will probably be irrelevant by the first quarter 2015.

There will be a core of players - the dedicated few who spent thousands of dollars for their little animated figures (screen cartoons, if you will) - who will hang onto the bitter end. Anyone who say the last few days of Lego Universe online, or dozens of other examples, can attest to these sad cases.

It's a game. Enjoy it while you can. Get out there and 'slay, and 'chop' and win the little animated icons. Your return isn't an animated icon with a little '+' symbol after it, but in the enjoyment and escapism obtained.

In so far as 'hacker detection/prevention' - trust me, it's there. Various compliance models insist that a minimum set of standards exists - and are routinely audited. The few software bugs are just that - glitches (intentional or otherwise).

[Sol Invictus]

Apparently the "compliance models" aren't effective enough and an actual human being needs to sit down and examine accounts, because there is no way a level 24 knight that is a week old should be at the top of the leaderboards.

How hard can it be to compare sales data with gemspending? Or any other method?

Player X has never bought a single gem, but they after one day in Arena they have 50k points. Seems legit.

[Melibane Urambir]

Elita if you work on the game of knights and dragons may i request one thing please.
Since the level fifteen epic boss has 18 thousand hp may i request to take it down to 15,675 hp? Because ive tried and tried and i almost beat it once it has 1328 hp but the damage was to high for me please do.
Thank you for youre time i hope you may change it.

go in with all five, fight to the death, set a timer for one hour and 50 minutes later, go back with three and finish the job. If you can't kill him that way at level 15 you need to upgrade some armor and get some stronger friends.

[Melibane Urambir]

Apparently the "compliance models" aren't effective enough and an actual human being needs to sit down and examine accounts, because there is no way a level 24 knight that is a week old should be at the top of the leaderboards.

How hard can it be to compare sales data with gemspending? Or any other method?

Player X has never bought a single gem, but they after one day in Arena they have 50k points. Seems legit.

I love seeing a dude in monk armor in the top ten in arena myself. Level 45 with 150k points, why can't I get that kind of luck? lol

[MrManhoso]

Slayer 1-

Your post is pretty valid and definitely applies for most of the mediocre, or middle of the road earning games out there.

I used to work in the gaming industry, consoles specifically. K&D brought in a whopping 5million dollars in December... read that again... there was no shipping fees, dvd's to burn, no high end dev machines to run.
Thats a hell of alot of money, for little to barely any upfront costs that exist in PC/console games. This alone would divert any pre-existing dev cycle that you spoke of.

It is doubtful a new map can be created..because of what you outlined. Tweaking the pre-existing "rules" in order to keep your spending fan base happy to yield another million or two costs you nothing, and will gain them insurance that this cash cow will still yield milk.

[bosskiller]

Apparently the "compliance models" aren't effective enough and an actual human being needs to sit down and examine accounts, because there is no way a level 24 knight that is a week old should be at the top of the leaderboards.

How hard can it be to compare sales data with gemspending? Or any other method?

Player X has never bought a single gem, but they after one day in Arena they have 50k points. Seems legit.

Who told you they didnt buy gems?

[The Pale Rider]

Hey ya'll,

We read your threads and your ideas. Some of the things physically cannot be done with the current engine and some things can. Its totally fine to have a movement so long as it doesn't involve boycotting the game on the forums.

Thanks!

What is being done to change or enhance the game. "Gifting" was simply another much less valuable form of a gem sale. Other than that there's been nothing since the Arena revamp (which I thought was good). What's in the pipeline? Give us a reason to hang around for it or show that you've done more than read posts.

[Sol Invictus]

Who told you they didnt buy gems?

I can't imagine very many people dropping that kind of money.

If you look at some of the accounts in Arena that we all know are there, you can see they fought an Epic Boss or two months ago and haven't fought one since. They low level with bad armors.

And yet...you expect me to believe they're spending hundreds of dollars all of a sudden just to top the Arena?

Come on.

Come on.

[Marco_]

In so far as 'hacker detection/prevention' - trust me, it's there. Various compliance models insist that a minimum set of standards exists - and are routinely audited. The few software bugs are just that - glitches (intentional or otherwise).
Nah, KnD is more just like windows 95 with its internet access bolted on last minute.
If a connection can hickup and someone ends up with hundreds of millions of gold because of that without the server automatically realizing something isn't right, then your server coding is hopeless...

[Slayer 1]

However - that 'cash cow' has a finite life-cycle and rate of return. You must take into account both the instant gratification aspects and App rollover. Even the pinnacle of gaming apps (Angry Birds) fell short of projected earnings by year 3, and has fallen short every year since. The brand has been maintained by cross-platform marketing and merchandising. Your typical game app lasts about 3 months. Hell, Gree didn't have an app in the top 10 this year. Clash of Clans was #1, and they saw a 30% drop off in December alone. The only other game of the last 18 months that has broken that paradigm is Dragonvale.

[Skittle Stomper]

Software development lifecycle(s) are fit into a project management / project delivery framework. That being said, the content and future content of the game is already dictated and placed on a development path that has been agreed upon, resourced, and dictated a long time ago. Anticipated profit margins based upon application lifecycle and 'high-quality', non-repetitious traffic has already been calculated. At this point, K&D is on life support. Nothing major is going to be added. Live it, like it, love it, or hate it - but accept it.
^this

I've tried explaining 6-12 month project outlook to this circus before. All the 12 year olds here think programming decisions are made on the fly, then coded & implemented within 1-2 days.
/facepalm

[09cobaltss]

So what you are saying is if a game starts making money hand over fist and it wasn't expected there is no hope that the company who makes that game will add anything. Sounds like a crappy company outlook. No wonder profits are down and expected to decrease

[Skittle Stomper]

So what you are saying is if a game starts making money hand over fist and it wasn't expected there is no hope that the company who makes that game will add anything. Sounds like a crappy company outlook. No wonder profits are down and expected to decrease

This is the MMIoS architecture in a nutshell. These corporations have no idea how to build & grow their fundamentals. Gree is just one of the worst about it. They also have the most innovative & interactive pvp model of any IOS game company I've found, which is why I've played most of their games up until recently. Most game companies aren't much better in terms of content release & supporting a long term player base. The travel mmorpg genre has potential, but I doubt the current direction of world affairs will do us (the consumers) any favors.