New Guild-War Rewards? Vote

[Dark Prince]

#1: GW Epic+ - Another Reward on Top of GW+ Epic

2-3: GW Epic+

4-10: GW Epic (non-plus)

11-25: New Low Stat Epics+?
(Stats similar to moontide+/Blazeborne)

26-50: New weaker Epics(non-plus) OR a Legendary+X2

51-100: Legendary+

101-150: Legendary

Extra Note: Please note that the current EB armors ARE stronger then moontide.

[Sent]

Two epics per war? No thanks.
1 Epic+
2-10 Epic
11-50 New Legendary+
51-250 New Legendary
After that idc

[Dark Prince]

Two epics per war? No thanks.
1 Epic+
2-10 Epic
11-50 New Legendary+
51-250 New Legendary
After that idc

Unless you are a Gree artist developing Armors Im not sure how a new Epic with only slightly better stats then the current EB+ Armor would effect you?

[pimmen8]

1 Epic+
2-10 Epic
11-50 New Legendary+(put in something like Spartans wargear. Not EB still good)
51-250 New Legendary

[xXx Jonny Bravo xXx]

Adding epic+ to top three guilds would be great. I think it would benefit both players and green by increasing competition/ revenue. Only people not winning in that deal is the perennial #1 guild.

[Bshappell]

Noooooooooooooo

[Sent]

Unless you are a Gree artist developing Armors Im not sure how a new Epic with only slightly better stats then the current EB+ Armor would effect you?
1,000s of Epics brought into the game every war? Epic+ similar to Moontide+? Just add a Legendary+ that's around there. No need for so many Epics.

[The Pale Rider]

Man is this not a representative sample. Are any of you in or near 11-25? I assure you no one in any guild finishing 11-25 needs or wants old EB+. Those guilds spend gems and get crap rewards. I've been top 100 a bunch and scoring 700-800,000k (average 12k-15k per member plus win bonuses) can be done all f2p if guild is full and active. Top 50 is 1,100,000-1,200,000 (average 18-22k per member plus win bonuses) takes some gemming, but can be done f2p with aggressive VPN use. Top 25 is 1,600,000-1,800,000 (average 30-35k per member plus win bonuses), which necessitates spending money. And that's to hit the cutoff point, not the average in the range which is much higher. GREE needs to reward spending to encourage more of it. Period.

This discussion has happened in at least 4 other threads already. The poll demanding a change is interesting. I would keep the current rewards with 2 minor changes.

1-2: GW Epic+
3-10: GW Epic (non-plus)
11-25: Fusable Epic
(Anything other than Moontide)
26-50: Legendary+
51-100: Legendary

[Dark Prince]

1,000s of Epics brought into the game every war? Epic+ similar to Moontide+? Just add a Legendary+ that's around there. No need for so many Epics.

Thanks for the input, but you just proved my point.
An Epic is seen as a much better reward EVEN if it has stats similar to the current EB+ Armors. Essentially favouring a more competitive Guild War.

[Dark Prince]

Man is this not a representative sample. Are any of you in or near 11-25? I assure you no one in any guild finishing 11-25 needs or wants old EB+. Those guilds spend gems and get crap rewards. I've been top 100 a bunch and scoring 700-800,000k (average 12k-15k per member plus win bonuses) can be done all f2p if guild is full and active. Top 50 is 1,100,000-1,200,000 (average 18-22k per member plus win bonuses) takes some gemming, but can be done f2p with aggressive VPN use. Top 25 is 1,600,000-1,800,000 (average 30-35k per member plus win bonuses), which necessitates spending money more most guilds. And that's to hit the cutoff point, not the average in the range which is much higher. GREE needs to reward spending to encourage more of it. Period.

This discussion has happened in at least 4 other threads already. The poll demanding a change is interesting. I would keep the current rewards with 2 minor changes.

1-2: GW Epic+
3-10: GW Epic (non-plus)
11-25: Fusable Epic
(Anything other than Moontide)
26-50: Legendary+
51-100: Legendary

Thanks for the feedback, I did consider putting a 'Fuseable Epic' in, however they would very quickly run out of armors to put in and just keep recycling them until another epic becomes Fuseable. Although I do still believe this is better then the current system.

[bosskiller]

There have already been quite a few threads about this, but I'm glad there is another. The more there are, the larger the chance that GREE will see/pay attention to it.

[Dark Prince]

This one will be the most Popular

[MrMousiee]

1-2 should get epic+
3-10 should get epic
11-25 should get old recycled epic+
26-50 should get recycled epic
51-100 should get recycled legendary+
101-250 should get recycled legendary x 2
251-500 should get recycled legendary x 1
501- 1500 should get ultra rare+
1501-5000 should get ultra rare
5001+ should get gold and materials maybe some fusion stones

[Melibane Urambir]

Gree will keep it the way they have it because there is a large contingent fighting for second place. Guilds are combining with each other to attempt to knock off the top guilds (read this on the wiki, tifiw) which means they are spending more money. The gap between guild war rewards and epic bonus +armors is growing, thus ensuring that those spending the most money will stay on top. If you owned a business would you punish your paying customers by giving the freeloaders a better chance at knocking you off?

[Dark Prince]

Gree will keep it the way they have it because there is a large contingent fighting for second place. Guilds are combining with each other to attempt to knock off the top guilds (read this on the wiki, tifiw) which means they are spending more money. The gap between guild war rewards and epic bonus +armors is growing, thus ensuring that those spending the most money will stay on top. If you owned a business would you punish your paying customers by giving the freeloaders a better chance at knocking you off?

1. Nobody cares about #2 its the same as #10
2. If 50 Guilds are spending for Epics, its probably going to be more revenue
3. How does this unseat RR for #1...?
4. Goodluck 'freeloading' into a top 25, even a top 100
5. We, the top 2-10 guilds, would HAVE a reason to fight for top 2-3

[Klmart439]

How about rewards for non gem users?

[Dark Prince]

This game is based on spending, sorry.

[ZERO_07]

This game is based on spending, sorry.
1st: Epic+
2nd-10000th Basic Armor

There you go

[Jilly]

I personally think this would be a good idea....
Rank-Rewards :
#1 GW epic plus and old GW regular epic( top player is rewarded with a better stat plus armour of the Gw)
#2 GW epic plus
#3-10 GW regular epic (top scoring player is rewarded with plus version instead)
#11-25 legendary plus (top scoring player is rewarded with current regular GW epic)
#26-50 legendary plus (top scoring players is rewarded with regular old epic)

I personally think this will entice friendly competition within the guild and draw some sort of incentive to be the best within the guild at the same time profting gree.

[Xtrips]

Thanks for the feedback, I did consider putting a 'Fuseable Epic' in, however they would very quickly run out of armors to put in and just keep recycling them until another epic becomes Fuseable. Although I do still believe this is better then the current system.


Gree will keep it the way they have it because there is a large contingent fighting for second place. Guilds are combining with each other to attempt to knock off the top guilds (read this on the wiki, tifiw) which means they are spending more money. The gap between guild war rewards and epic bonus +armors is growing, thus ensuring that those spending the most money will stay on top. If you owned a business would you punish your paying customers by giving the freeloaders a better chance at knocking you off?

It wouldnt affect who comes first at all even if you gave gw epic+ to 1-1000. Players would still need to outgem other guilds. Your chance of scoring points might go up a little but not enough to make a noticable change in position unless you gem.

I agree that rewards suck for 11+, have posted that in other threads. New stronger legendaries would be better I believe.

[The Hurricane]

Just don't gem until there are good rewards, top 10 would always gem anyways. I told my guild to not gem until there are any good rewards, seriously. This guy and his mates ain't gonna gem until we get any good rewards, GREEd.

[R0tta]

Got so many normal epics now that it's getting boring. Esp when they give us those crappy mono epics -.- Would love 2 fight for top3 if all was getting epic+. ofc give something extra to the top guild.

I could ofc try 2 get into DK but it's just boring when every1 knows that they win every war. that's the main reason why I'm in one of the other top10 guilds. I want competition and a reward worth playing for. Atm we get competition between 2-15 and **** rewards. Atleast nothing better than those 21 epics i alrdy got -.-

[The Hurricane]

You know, just for once GREE should just give a 2 star as the reward for #1 once, then let's see how much DK is gonna go.

[busteroaf]

Thanks for the feedback, I did consider putting a 'Fuseable Epic' in, however they would very quickly run out of armors to put in and just keep recycling them until another epic becomes Fuseable. Although I do still believe this is better then the current system.

So, while they would run out of fusable epics quickly, you'd instead want them to add 2 new armors every war (one epic, one legendary) instead of one. If the legendary is better than EB, you're increasing the frequency in which the armors stats are increasing as well.

Yay for speeding up the stat creep!

[rstoopes30]

Guilds 11-25 should get the epic too. More guilds would be spending more money to get into 25th place

[Dark Prince]

Guilds 11-25 should get the epic too. More guilds would be spending more money to get into 25th place

Sorry that just be too many epics coming in, 25x30(members on avg) = 750 epics a war.

[Dark Prince]

So, while they would run out of fusable epics quickly, you'd instead want them to add 2 new armors every war (one epic, one legendary) instead of one. If the legendary is better than EB, you're increasing the frequency in which the armors stats are increasing as well.

Yay for speeding up the stat creep!

Busta busta

[furyp]

Sometimes it's not about the prize for some people. It's about the Pride.


You know, just for once GREE should just give a 2 star as the reward for #1 once, then let's see how much DK is gonna go.

Also you guys need to realize if they were to give out epics from 11-25, they will have to boost the rewards from 1-10 as well, essentially leaving you in the exact same spot as you were before. By the time you start to receive epics, premium players will be waiting for you in the arena with 6stars-7stars armors. Is that something you are wishing to see?

[Dianish]

I wonder what would happen if they just removed the epics as rewards.

That would be fun. So many upset players out there. The rewards isnt worth much, you all complain over and over and yet you stay ingame with a big happyface. Gonna make a lot of popcorn when that day comes. Gonna be quite the show.

On topic: Gree aint changing the bad rewards into something better. They are to blindsided and its cool :)

[horsemn]

Personally, i think arena and war should run the same. The milestones in the arena can be transferred to a system in the wars. Reach 10 million points in your guild and you get the epic+, 5 million or higher gives the basic version of the epic. 2.5 million or higher is old epic like moon-mael so you will get something good for putting up good points. 1 million can be x2 of an uncraftable legend+ armor, a new one, not like boilerplate. Anything below that can be a tier lower for rewards. If you do this, guilds as a whole will fight a hell of a lot more for those rewards.Also, set a system where if you don't reach a certain point or amount of fights within your guild, you don't get the rewards. Punish leeches.

[ArchangelAriel]

Personally, i think arena and war should run the same. The milestones in the arena can be transferred to a system in the wars. Reach 10 million points in your guild and you get the epic+, 5 million or higher gives the basic version of the epic. 2.5 million or higher is old epic like moon-mael so you will get something good for putting up good points. 1 million can be x2 of an uncraftable legend+ armor, a new one, not like boilerplate. Anything below that can be a tier lower for rewards. If you do this, guilds as a whole will fight a hell of a lot more for those rewards.Also, set a system where if you don't reach a certain point or amount of fights within your guild, you don't get the rewards. Punish leeches.

There is no decent uncraftable legendary+ armor which can be of some help to the players.

[Dark Prince]

Personally, i think arena and war should run the same. The milestones in the arena can be transferred to a system in the wars. Reach 10 million points in your guild and you get the epic+, 5 million or higher gives the basic version of the epic. 2.5 million or higher is old epic like moon-mael so you will get something good for putting up good points. 1 million can be x2 of an uncraftable legend+ armor, a new one, not like boilerplate. Anything below that can be a tier lower for rewards. If you do this, guilds as a whole will fight a hell of a lot more for those rewards.Also, set a system where if you don't reach a certain point or amount of fights within your guild, you don't get the rewards. Punish leeches.

There can only be 1 victor in a war... And plus EVERYBODY would strip then lol no point in having the Epic+

[horsemn]

They make epics more than bosses, not too hard for them

[horsemn]

Yes, but dk spams their small guilds and vice versa for them and bbt to place top 2 or 3 every war. so they already don't make the game fair. And this is GREEd, money above all.

[furyp]

Sure, they will give you epics but they are also going to give premium players Godly armors that have 3x more stats than epics. That's fair right?

[ArchangelAriel]

it never fair and will never be for such games. Ragnarok, WoW etc. have the same problem. One guild will dominate and start to form alliance. After some time the guild will dissolve and goes down and a new one arise. It will keep going on and on till the game dies. So just enjoy the fun time with your fellow guildies.

[Dark Prince]

What does that have to do with reward?

[Dark Prince]

First page BUMP

[ZERO_07]

I don't see the problem with Gree giving Top 25 guilds outdated Epics as rewards.

Blazeborne, Tectonic, Forgestone, and Cloudrange

[Dark Prince]

Then Vote!

[Oliver Queen]

Ok I voted yes

[Oliver Queen]

I voted and who here is android?

[Oliver Queen]

Good to know the supporters so gree do something

[Stakeum]

I would suggest leaving the top ten alone or maybe a slight change based on how much of the below idea was implemented.

Anyway the key to my idea is creating a new kind of fusion boost armor that is 5 stars, which could offer a decent chance of fusing an epic.

Guilds from 11-25 for example could get two of these, one of two different elements. Further down could get maybe only one of these. If Gree set it up so that it was a 1/3 or so chance of fusing an epic it would be a way to give people in those ranks a decent chance to get an epic each war or over multiple wars.

A second thought is to allow the same armor to be fused with itself to make a + version. This way guilds in those ranks could overtime fuse plus versions of fusible epics which are outdated anyway. To make it harder is you could require the armors to be above a certain level to create the plus version.

If this was added though I'd think silver and gold should get one of these new 5 star fusion armors so over time they could have a chance at getting a plus version as well, but only once the epic became fusible.

I'm sure this isn't an original idea by now but I haven't seen it mentioned yet and would like to see other peoples views on it. Tat all said, I do think it strikes a good balance between not giving out too many Epics each war but creating a better system for non top ten guilds.

-Stakeum

[The JokeRR]

Giving 2nd place or any other guild an epic+ as we'll is just bad for business, it would create an outrage and cause even more people to quit. There is a reason people fight to stay at number 1, it has benefits. If you take away that then you destroy the foundation of a guild war. It's like having a sporting event where both of the final teams get a trophy but the team who wins that game gets a high five... I'm all for increasing the competition but taking giving out epic+ will destroy it. Maybe they should introduce limited edition capes to the top 5 and the top 3 are awarded the epic with the same design but with a different color combination (either or). (We have seen GREE has been practicing with the EBs in the past weeks.) I'm all for giving higher incentive to finish top 5 or top 3 but diminishing the advantage of what the hard fought first place gets is the wrong way to do it.

[EljayK]

1st: Epic+
2nd-10000th Basic Armor

There you go

Close. But the current is pretty much

1st: Epic+
2nd-10th: Epic
11th+: Fusion boost armor and Fusion stones.

[sxespanky]

Close. But the current is pretty much

1st: Epic+
2nd-10th: Epic
11th+: Fusion boost armor and Fusion stones.

i much rather get this than the garbage they put out now. even if it is just one fusion armor, its more worth my time than one fusable crap eb armor from last year that doesn't even compete with the new ones. Also did O Queen just post every post on the forum?

[TakeTheirTeeth]

Just got awarded this armor for coming in 11th place in the war. I am so excited, I have been wanting this sweet armor for a very long time. Thanks gree, you rock!............................................. .................................................. ..............................................make s it all worthwhile, 500k + points = wicker mantle+, aww yeah

[Ant venom]

Just got awarded this armor for coming in 11th place in the war. I am so excited, I have been wanting this sweet armor for a very long time. Thanks gree, you rock!............................................. .................................................. ..............................................make s it all worthwhile, 500k + points = wicker mantle+, aww yeah
WTF wicker mantle+ is one of the saddest armors u can get and worse part is placing 11th so close good luck next war with another wicker mantle

[Sent]

WTF wicker mantle+ is one of the saddest armors u can get and worse part is placing 11th so close good luck next war with another wicker mantle
He was being sarcastic.

[Dark Prince]

Well its 80% yes, Gree you see this?

[ZERO_07]

I've yet to see a good solution or suggestion as to what would make Top 50 prizes better. You guys keep saying if not going for Top 10 then it's a waste of time yet you only want Top 10 to get Epics. If you're not getting an Epic is still a waste of time...

[Conget]

I don't see the problem with Gree giving Top 25 guilds outdated Epics as rewards.

Blazeborne, Tectonic, Forgestone, and Cloudrange

Because they cant use them anymore as arena reward

[Conget]

#1: GW Epic+
2-10: GW Epic (non-plus)
11-25: 3 Chest keys to open chance chest (Which contains the newest epic)
26-50: 2 Chest keys to open chance chest (Which contains the newest epic)
51-100: 1 Chest key to open chance chest (Which contains the newest epic)
101-150: Old Legendary+ [Not TOO old]

Keep it as chances for the new epic, not 100% chance.

[Dark Prince]

52 Votes - Yes
11 Votes - No

Nuff said. Weekly bump

[Melibane Urambir]

1-5 gw epic +
6-12 gw epic
13-20 classic epic + (first five epics)
21-30 classic epic
31-50 legendary + x2
51-80 legendary +
81-100 legendary

Create spending by creating competition, even in the mid tier guilds to grab an elusive epic. Even if it is an older epic, an epic + is worth spending over to most people. At the current rate of epic stat explosion this really won't rock the boat of the established power guilds either.

[toogoodformyowngood]

i think epic+ will only be for top#1 guild. cause the drop rate for epic plus is about 10% of a normal epic.

otherwise it wouldn't be special anyways. dilution of the value of epic plus. its ok to have epics for top 15 or top 20 but i think epic plus should only be reserved for no.1 guild.

[toogoodformyowngood]

Obviously, your poll will show that people in favour of better rewards cuz imho rewards for non top 10 is really horrible. i think your suggestions are ok. just no epic+ for 2/3. dilution of it value is already pretty bad now.

if everyone had epic plus it would be worthless.

and i think leaving it for no#1 actually boost their revenue, making making epic to top15 might increase revenue slightly. idk. or better rewards for top 50. i.e old epics.

[toogoodformyowngood]

52 Votes - Yes
11 Votes - No

Nuff said. Weekly bump

lol. forums numbers does nt necessarily translate to in game numbers. anyways. its the game lacks new content post level 100 and i think that's one of the main problems. just adding more shinny's in the game will not help much. i think changing the current structure might just give them a 10-15% boost in revenue.

hmm... haha anyways GREE has always been quiet to the demands of the players.

[The Pale Rider]

What's really surprising is the 11 who like the current reward structure. I assume they're all just haters with no lives. I have not seen anyone post a thoughtful argument against improving the present system.

[EljayK]

I honestly think the current system would be fine if the Legendaries that were chosen as rewards were actually viable in some way. My personal suggestion has always been to give out a non-plus version of the current EB armor. That way you get a free modern armor that is worth your gemming, and you will be a little bit of a step ahead of making the plus.

If war starts on friday, and ends on sunday, and you get current EB+ (for 11-25), and non-plus (for 26-50), you are only slightly further up the curve. My own argument against myself is that this would cut out people in those guilds from using them on the boss that week. However, I think it would just move those gems from boss to war. If you know you're in an 11-25 guild, you can take it easy on boss, and have extra armor to fuse.

Plus this encourages the whole guild to participate. Many guilds have members right now that don't try as hard as they could because all they're getting is fusion fodder. If they were 'keeping up' with it, then it would be a better incentive for each member to desire those positions.

It should also be mentioned that providing completely outdated epics in the DPC will make the keys more valuable. Why isn't moontide in DPC?
At this point, there should be 3 tiers of epics:
Coming from new chest / Won in guild war
Fusable
DPC chest.

After it's been the first for a while it moves to second. After it's been there for a while it moves to third.

Or make a chest that you can be opened at any time, for 25 gems, that has fusable epics. Keys for it are only won in guild wars at higher ranks.

The problem isn't that the war rewards completely suck. (they do) The problem is that there is no slope. Since the introduction of Epics there have only been two tiers, Epics, and non-epics. The gap between those tiers is so giant that there is no slope. You either have epics or you don't. There needs to be a more even slope so that there isn't this giant jump between what rewards can be given out. That slope has always been EB, and it's getting close. But giving out ancient EB rewards, is not enticing, and it doesn't 'even the slope.' All it does is reinforce the giant gap.

[Raichu]

Top 1, epic+, 5 current chest keys
2-10, epic. 4 current chest keys
11-25, new and improved legendary+, 100 stats better than epic boss. 2 current key chests
26-50, latest epic boss+, 2 keys for the current chest offer.
51-100 new and improved legendary, a little below new eb+ stats and 1 current key

[Sir William]

Alright so I've decided to chime in with my two cents about this whole issue with wanting better guild war rewards.

While I do agree that the rewards need to be updated, I think it's important to look at a few other things first which may help put things in perspective for some of you about Gree's position.


I think the most important thing to look at here is Gree's valuation of gems, gold, certain armors, etc..

Don't forget the retail price of gems and gold in this game for players:

$100 will get you either 800 gems, 1.2 million gold, or 1 million gold with 500 gems.

$50 will get you either 375 gems or 550,000 gold.

$25 will get you either 175 gems, 250,000 gold, or 150,000 gold with 120 gems.

$10 will get you either 65 gems or 75,000 gold.

$5 will get you either 30 gems, 30,000 gold, or 20,000 gold with 20 gems.

$2 will get you 10 gems or 10,000 gold.

It's important to remember these prices when talking about rewards given out by Gree.

Now, when you think about guild war rewards, it's best to assume that the top tier rewards will have larger guilds. Probably an average of 30-35 but more than likely a full 40.

First place in guild war will land you an epic+ armor (which doesn't have a specific dollar value, only what the market deems it is worth; in this case most fairly over $200 each new war.) along with 20 fusion boost armors, 100 gems, and five dark prince keys.

The fusion boosts are also hard to value because they aren't specifically for sale, but considering you are given 20 when you buy the 999 gem chest ($125) they're probably not worth very much. Maybe $10-20 total.

The gems themselves are worth only about $15.
The dark prince keys are worth 20 gems each, so for 5 you're looking at 100 gems so another $15 or so.

Now when you add all of this in together from Gree's point of view, they're valuing the entire reward for first place at at least $45, but up to roughly $250.

Assuming top guild is full, that's $8,000 in rewards.

If you scale back the prizes to follow suit down the ladder then the amount of money adds up very quickly.

$250/player in first.
$200/player in second.
$150/player in third.
$100/player in 4-10.
$75/player in 11-25.
$50/player in 26-50.
Etc. etc.

Now obviously these are very rough estimates. I'm not saying this is necessarily even remotely accurate, however the model is a good way to discuss this issue further.


What comes next is considering the 'value' of gems, and virtual currency in general.

In the case of Knights and Dragons, as far as we know, there is no limit to the amount of gems Gree can create/produce/distribute. It's not like bitcoin where there are a finite amount of gems, or like the US Treasury where each and every gem has to be backed by hard currency like gold or silver.

In theory, Gree is literally setting an arbitrary value for what gems are worth. When the game came out, those in charge determined 800 gems is worth $100. Now that's fine of course, but the game is no longer in the same position now as when it was initially released. When I first started playing over a year ago, very few people were buying $100 worth of gems at a time. Buying gems at all was a way of separating yourself from almost everyone.

Now, buying gems is not a way to separate yourself from the rest and have an advantage. It's merely how you play. Day to day play (on an even remotely competitive status) is mandatory on gem purchasing. That's the nature of free to play games.

To ElJayk's point about the slope and the separation between the top 1% and the rest growing, this is a fine example. It's no longer feasible to be a 100% free player and remain competitive like it used to be.


So how do we fix this to where everyone is happier? Better rewards mean Gree has to raise the value of their prizes, but that affects their bottom lines. It may not be within their goals or power to raise the value of the reward tiers because perhaps that would cease to make them a profit.

Who knows.

But in my opinion, the first thing that I mentioned is what most needs to be updated. Gree's value of gems and gold, and the prices they sell each for, are no longer applicable in this day of the game.

It is not monetarily worthwhile to spend $100 on 1,200,000 gold which can be gathered on your own in 3 or 4 days per player. It's not helpful for guilds that require 75-100 million for a 1% raise in bonuses.

In my opinion, the amount of gems and gold being sold for various amounts is what really needs to be revamped. The cost so to speak of playing the game has gone up tremendously whereas the value of our money hasn't risen with it.

I'm sure I have left something out, but ill comment back more as I remember.

All comments and open discussion are welcome and I'm happy to engage in some healthy discourse.

Thanks for reading.

[Dark Prince]

Alright so I've decided to chime in with my two cents about this whole issue with wanting better guild war rewards.

While I do agree that the rewards need to be updated, I think it's important to look at a few other things first which may help put things in perspective for some of you about Gree's position.


I think the most important thing to look at here is Gree's valuation of gems, gold, certain armors, etc..

Don't forget the retail price of gems and gold in this game for players:

$100 will get you either 800 gems, 1.2 million gold, or 1 million gold with 500 gems.

$50 will get you either 375 gems or 550,000 gold.

$25 will get you either 175 gems, 250,000 gold, or 150,000 gold with 120 gems.

$10 will get you either 65 gems or 75,000 gold.

$5 will get you either 30 gems, 30,000 gold, or 20,000 gold with 20 gems.

$2 will get you 10 gems or 10,000 gold.

It's important to remember these prices when talking about rewards given out by Gree.

Now, when you think about guild war rewards, it's best to assume that the top tier rewards will have larger guilds. Probably an average of 30-35 but more than likely a full 40.

First place in guild war will land you an epic+ armor (which doesn't have a specific dollar value, only what the market deems it is worth; in this case most fairly over $200 each new war.) along with 20 fusion boost armors, 100 gems, and five dark prince keys.

The fusion boosts are also hard to value because they aren't specifically for sale, but considering you are given 20 when you buy the 999 gem chest ($125) they're probably not worth very much. Maybe $10-20 total.

The gems themselves are worth only about $15.
The dark prince keys are worth 20 gems each, so for 5 you're looking at 100 gems so another $15 or so.

Now when you add all of this in together from Gree's point of view, they're valuing the entire reward for first place at at least $45, but up to roughly $250.

Assuming top guild is full, that's $8,000 in rewards.

If you scale back the prizes to follow suit down the ladder then the amount of money adds up very quickly.

$250/player in first.
$200/player in second.
$150/player in third.
$100/player in 4-10.
$75/player in 11-25.
$50/player in 26-50.
Etc. etc.

Now obviously these are very rough estimates. I'm not saying this is necessarily even remotely accurate, however the model is a good way to discuss this issue further.


What comes next is considering the 'value' of gems, and virtual currency in general.

In the case of Knights and Dragons, as far as we know, there is no limit to the amount of gems Gree can create/produce/distribute. It's not like bitcoin where there are a finite amount of gems, or like the US Treasury where each and every gem has to be backed by hard currency like gold or silver.

In theory, Gree is literally setting an arbitrary value for what gems are worth. When the game came out, those in charge determined 800 gems is worth $100. Now that's fine of course, but the game is no longer in the same position now as when it was initially released. When I first started playing over a year ago, very few people were buying $100 worth of gems at a time. Buying gems at all was a way of separating yourself from almost everyone.

Now, buying gems is not a way to separate yourself from the rest and have an advantage. It's merely how you play. Day to day play (on an even remotely competitive status) is mandatory on gem purchasing. That's the nature of free to play games.

To ElJayk's point about the slope and the separation between the top 1% and the rest growing, this is a fine example. It's no longer feasible to be a 100% free player and remain competitive like it used to be.


So how do we fix this to where everyone is happier? Better rewards mean Gree has to raise the value of their prizes, but that affects their bottom lines. It may not be within their goals or power to raise the value of the reward tiers because perhaps that would cease to make them a profit.

Who knows.

But in my opinion, the first thing that I mentioned is what most needs to be updated. Gree's value of gems and gold, and the prices they sell each for, are no longer applicable in this day of the game.

It is not monetarily worthwhile to spend $100 on 1,200,000 gold which can be gathered on your own in 3 or 4 days per player. It's not helpful for guilds that require 75-100 million for a 1% raise in bonuses.

In my opinion, the amount of gems and gold being sold for various amounts is what really needs to be revamped. The cost so to speak of playing the game has gone up tremendously whereas the value of our money hasn't risen with it.

I'm sure I have left something out, but ill comment back more as I remember.

All comments and open discussion are welcome and I'm happy to engage in some healthy discourse.

Thanks for reading.

Wonderful Post. But lets be serious I dont understand how top 25 guilds can even try for the rewards IMO just join a top 10 like DPA ;)

[Sir William]

Well my guild ended up in 50th after hovering around 35-45 the entire war.

We had a couple of large spenders but only a 20/30k minimum. Fairly simple even for non spenders or light spenders.

I think I used about 175-200 gems and ended with about 60k points in war.

Top 50 is not horrible for a guild that's only a few weeks old with 23 members.

Top 25 is still somewhat doable with light to medium light spending.

I do think the rewards should and could be better, but given the system we do have and cost vs reward top 50 was worth aimin for. Especially considering top 10 was out of reach.

[Skittle Stomper]

...or like the US Treasury where each and every gem has to be backed by hard currency like gold or silver.

This made me laugh!

[EljayK]

.

I have to agree with all the points. I didn't take into consideration the price of gems. You would have thought that when they added the new gem package for android they would have evaluated it.

However, I don't know much that can be done at this point with it. I'm not an avid phone gamer, and this was the only game I played for a long time until recently when I picked up another one. But in the course of the last few years having game capable phone, I haven't seen any game where they adjusted the price of their real currency. I'm not insinuating that it hasn't happened, I'm mentioning it to say that I don't have a physical experience in the effects of it.

With that said though, my better judgement says that the only viable option for prices would be to increase them, and see where the chips lay. Epics are common(ish). Most top 50 guild players have one. Assuming even 20 people per guild, that 2,000 epics. That may not seem like a lot, but top 50 mostly only daily players. There are a slew of non-dailies that have them also.

The system is meant to make money, and force you to want that one golden prize. Guild wars could have been done a number of more entertaining ways. (Knocking out players to win, points for defense wins, a 'declare then register' system. Almost anything.). But it was made with the idea that gemming to win was not only encourage by the method, but demanded for a win. With the introduction of guild wars, the last clamoring hope for free players started to aspirate. The fluid is filling the lungs, and we will all stop breathing hope slowly, one by one, with each new war that pronounces the gap between extreme spending, and even mild spending.

It used to be just gemmers and free players. But now, with 2nd gen epics, there is a gap growing between top 100 level gemming, and top 10 gemming. 1600 gem requirement for a top ten guild, and meanwhile top 50 is easily done with 40 gems from each of the 40 fully active members. I don't think Gree will worry about the reward separation until it takes 1600 gems to get to rank 50.

[Melibane Urambir]

Alright so I've decided to chime in with my two cents about this whole issue with wanting better guild war rewards.

While I do agree that the rewards need to be updated, I think it's important to look at a few other things first which may help put things in perspective for some of you about Gree's position.


I think the most important thing to look at here is Gree's valuation of gems, gold, certain armors, etc..

Don't forget the retail price of gems and gold in this game for players:

$100 will get you either 800 gems, 1.2 million gold, or 1 million gold with 500 gems.

$50 will get you either 375 gems or 550,000 gold.

$25 will get you either 175 gems, 250,000 gold, or 150,000 gold with 120 gems.

$10 will get you either 65 gems or 75,000 gold.

$5 will get you either 30 gems, 30,000 gold, or 20,000 gold with 20 gems.

$2 will get you 10 gems or 10,000 gold.

It's important to remember these prices when talking about rewards given out by Gree.

Now, when you think about guild war rewards, it's best to assume that the top tier rewards will have larger guilds. Probably an average of 30-35 but more than likely a full 40.

First place in guild war will land you an epic+ armor (which doesn't have a specific dollar value, only what the market deems it is worth; in this case most fairly over $200 each new war.) along with 20 fusion boost armors, 100 gems, and five dark prince keys.

The fusion boosts are also hard to value because they aren't specifically for sale, but considering you are given 20 when you buy the 999 gem chest ($125) they're probably not worth very much. Maybe $10-20 total.

The gems themselves are worth only about $15.
The dark prince keys are worth 20 gems each, so for 5 you're looking at 100 gems so another $15 or so.

Now when you add all of this in together from Gree's point of view, they're valuing the entire reward for first place at at least $45, but up to roughly $250.

Assuming top guild is full, that's $8,000 in rewards.

If you scale back the prizes to follow suit down the ladder then the amount of money adds up very quickly.

$250/player in first.
$200/player in second.
$150/player in third.
$100/player in 4-10.
$75/player in 11-25.
$50/player in 26-50.
Etc. etc.

Now obviously these are very rough estimates. I'm not saying this is necessarily even remotely accurate, however the model is a good way to discuss this issue further.


What comes next is considering the 'value' of gems, and virtual currency in general.

In the case of Knights and Dragons, as far as we know, there is no limit to the amount of gems Gree can create/produce/distribute. It's not like bitcoin where there are a finite amount of gems, or like the US Treasury where each and every gem has to be backed by hard currency like gold or silver.

In theory, Gree is literally setting an arbitrary value for what gems are worth. When the game came out, those in charge determined 800 gems is worth $100. Now that's fine of course, but the game is no longer in the same position now as when it was initially released. When I first started playing over a year ago, very few people were buying $100 worth of gems at a time. Buying gems at all was a way of separating yourself from almost everyone.

Now, buying gems is not a way to separate yourself from the rest and have an advantage. It's merely how you play. Day to day play (on an even remotely competitive status) is mandatory on gem purchasing. That's the nature of free to play games.

To ElJayk's point about the slope and the separation between the top 1% and the rest growing, this is a fine example. It's no longer feasible to be a 100% free player and remain competitive like it used to be.


So how do we fix this to where everyone is happier? Better rewards mean Gree has to raise the value of their prizes, but that affects their bottom lines. It may not be within their goals or power to raise the value of the reward tiers because perhaps that would cease to make them a profit.

Who knows.

But in my opinion, the first thing that I mentioned is what most needs to be updated. Gree's value of gems and gold, and the prices they sell each for, are no longer applicable in this day of the game.

It is not monetarily worthwhile to spend $100 on 1,200,000 gold which can be gathered on your own in 3 or 4 days per player. It's not helpful for guilds that require 75-100 million for a 1% raise in bonuses.

In my opinion, the amount of gems and gold being sold for various amounts is what really needs to be revamped. The cost so to speak of playing the game has gone up tremendously whereas the value of our money hasn't risen with it.

I'm sure I have left something out, but ill comment back more as I remember.

All comments and open discussion are welcome and I'm happy to engage in some healthy discourse.

Thanks for reading.


Wonderful, well thought, and insightful post. Wish there was a like a button or something. Not much to argue with except for it still doesn't change the fact that if you spread out items worth buying gems for people will buy gems. Until further notice first place is locked up. So why not give 3,4,or 5 gw+ to have the second tier guilds (the top 2-10 guys) up their spending to compete?

[Sir William]

I appreciate y'all's responses. I hope this leads to some worthwhile ideas or potential changes for Gree to take into consideration.

One other thing I would like to clarify/change:

After discussing this with some guild mates, I've come to understand that the $200 price tag for an epic+ is incredibly inaccurate. That a 1600 gem minimum is really only applicable for non+ epic.

Thus, the epic+ is more appropriately valued at a 4500 gem minimum and would raise the estimate of prize value from ~ $250 to well over $700-800.

And obviously the ladder would raise a bit and scale down proportionately from there.

[Melibane Urambir]

They value the soulshard necromantle at 5000 gems, can't remember if that was the + version or not. Honestly to have all the epics grouped into the same value is highly inaccurate. There's not way a tectonic is of equal value to a sandstorm, or a hellfire, or that stained glass monstrosity, or bronze chromatic. It's just not.

[smujica93]

Alright so I've decided to chime in with my two cents about this whole issue with wanting better guild war rewards.

While I do agree that the rewards need to be updated, I think it's important to look at a few other things first which may help put things in perspective for some of you about Gree's position.


I think the most important thing to look at here is Gree's valuation of gems, gold, certain armors, etc..

Don't forget the retail price of gems and gold in this game for players:

$100 will get you either 800 gems, 1.2 million gold, or 1 million gold with 500 gems.

$50 will get you either 375 gems or 550,000 gold.

$25 will get you either 175 gems, 250,000 gold, or 150,000 gold with 120 gems.

$10 will get you either 65 gems or 75,000 gold.

$5 will get you either 30 gems, 30,000 gold, or 20,000 gold with 20 gems.

$2 will get you 10 gems or 10,000 gold.

It's important to remember these prices when talking about rewards given out by Gree.

Now, when you think about guild war rewards, it's best to assume that the top tier rewards will have larger guilds. Probably an average of 30-35 but more than likely a full 40.

First place in guild war will land you an epic+ armor (which doesn't have a specific dollar value, only what the market deems it is worth; in this case most fairly over $200 each new war.) along with 20 fusion boost armors, 100 gems, and five dark prince keys.

The fusion boosts are also hard to value because they aren't specifically for sale, but considering you are given 20 when you buy the 999 gem chest ($125) they're probably not worth very much. Maybe $10-20 total.

The gems themselves are worth only about $15.
The dark prince keys are worth 20 gems each, so for 5 you're looking at 100 gems so another $15 or so.

Now when you add all of this in together from Gree's point of view, they're valuing the entire reward for first place at at least $45, but up to roughly $250.

Assuming top guild is full, that's $8,000 in rewards.

If you scale back the prizes to follow suit down the ladder then the amount of money adds up very quickly.

$250/player in first.
$200/player in second.
$150/player in third.
$100/player in 4-10.
$75/player in 11-25.
$50/player in 26-50.
Etc. etc.

Now obviously these are very rough estimates. I'm not saying this is necessarily even remotely accurate, however the model is a good way to discuss this issue further.


What comes next is considering the 'value' of gems, and virtual currency in general.

In the case of Knights and Dragons, as far as we know, there is no limit to the amount of gems Gree can create/produce/distribute. It's not like bitcoin where there are a finite amount of gems, or like the US Treasury where each and every gem has to be backed by hard currency like gold or silver.

In theory, Gree is literally setting an arbitrary value for what gems are worth. When the game came out, those in charge determined 800 gems is worth $100. Now that's fine of course, but the game is no longer in the same position now as when it was initially released. When I first started playing over a year ago, very few people were buying $100 worth of gems at a time. Buying gems at all was a way of separating yourself from almost everyone.

Now, buying gems is not a way to separate yourself from the rest and have an advantage. It's merely how you play. Day to day play (on an even remotely competitive status) is mandatory on gem purchasing. That's the nature of free to play games.

To ElJayk's point about the slope and the separation between the top 1% and the rest growing, this is a fine example. It's no longer feasible to be a 100% free player and remain competitive like it used to be.


So how do we fix this to where everyone is happier? Better rewards mean Gree has to raise the value of their prizes, but that affects their bottom lines. It may not be within their goals or power to raise the value of the reward tiers because perhaps that would cease to make them a profit.

Who knows.

But in my opinion, the first thing that I mentioned is what most needs to be updated. Gree's value of gems and gold, and the prices they sell each for, are no longer applicable in this day of the game.

It is not monetarily worthwhile to spend $100 on 1,200,000 gold which can be gathered on your own in 3 or 4 days per player. It's not helpful for guilds that require 75-100 million for a 1% raise in bonuses.

In my opinion, the amount of gems and gold being sold for various amounts is what really needs to be revamped. The cost so to speak of playing the game has gone up tremendously whereas the value of our money hasn't risen with it.

I'm sure I have left something out, but ill comment back more as I remember.

All comments and open discussion are welcome and I'm happy to engage in some healthy discourse.

Thanks for reading.

Again, wonderful post.

Not really relevant, but US currency isn't backed by gold or silver anymore lol.

Besides that, I appreciate you taking them time to do the math on all of these rewards. Helps everyone gain a little bit more perspective on the reward system.

[Sir William]

Again, wonderful post.

Not really relevant, but US currency isn't backed by gold or silver anymore lol.

Besides that, I appreciate you taking them time to do the math on all of these rewards. Helps everyone gain a little bit more perspective on the reward system.

Well not anymore, but for a long time and the point still gets across.

Also, I understand that not every epic+ is worth 5000 gems. It was more about the value of each new epic released during wars.

[karlervin]

What about giving capes? :D

[marcuseva]

no matter what. we need better rewards for guild coming in 11 or lower for sure. lol!

Old epics will do fine actually.

[GrayOne]

It looks like Gree listened to the requests of the forum on this latest War of the Saints.

[King juju]

Hopefully it's going to be like this from now on.

[McGillicuddy]

They listened!

[Dianish]

They listened!


Only because they finally figured out that it would increase their revenue.

[Adisty]

Only because they finally figured out that it would increase their revenue.Ignore his/her post. He/she was spamming to start a thread. 10 posts in ~15 minutes, couldn't start a thread, posting again after 20 minute pause. Now has a Guild Recruitment thread.

[XKAgrodelous]

Glad to see that gree also supports the 11+ idea