Why build walls?

[Thunder Child]

Why oh why did just about every team we faced in the Netherlands find it necessary to pay for and build L15 walls?

Because there was a thread here in the Forum which suggested you should?

Wake up!

=LITTLE BRAVO= went bareback for the entire event (once it's single remaining wall from Italy came down) and did very nicely, thank you very much: win/loss of 60/5, completed the 9/9 streak and ended up placing 30th.

So why would a team choose not to use use walls?

Among other things.....

no blocks to hunt or trade for
no cash outlay - use the money elsewhere
no need to have the Leader around to build the things at 4am

TOTALLY confuses the opposition - they see you have no wall BUT before they blink you have sacked THEIR wall and taken 10k points (at least)

The opposition can't sneak about behind your wall pretending to be inactive or setting up their so-called possum strategy - YOU can see EVERYTHING they do

Finally, not even a L15 wall holds back top opposition - top teams and even individuals can destroy the thing in seconds

SO WHY BOTHER?

The whole wall building exercise is taking hits that could be used in attacking players; in many cases this means some kind of expenditure on gold.....

DO THE MATH - no walls will save you gold, meaning that 'YOU-KNOW-WHO' profits from your game that little bit less.

Best of all, it's great fun without all the hassle of building and then the anxiety of monitoring your wall and wondering what the opposition are doing behind it.

Food for thought.....

[jrb22250]

In a top 1000 faction a lv 10 wall may determine a win. Sorry your top 1-50 factions and 750-1500 have way different strategies.

[kguittar]

Plus in a top faction where money seems to grow on trees for you all what does it matter? You are going to get concrete from attacking and raiding regardless. Might as well use what you have. Even if it means it's a waste if tapping for your leader.

This is just a form of bragging about your success. Much respect for your 30th place finish, but next time save yourself the time of typing all that out.

[Thunder Child]

We started as a Top 4000 faction not very long ago - part of the reason we have climbed so high so fast is our willingness to think outside the box, or in this case, walls!

[Speak Easy]

There is no 'One size fits all' TC

[SHANESTER]

60/5 with the 9/9 streak is excellent for most all factions.

[MariaHutton]

Plus in a top faction where money seems to grow on trees for you all what does it matter? You are going to get concrete from attacking and raiding regardless. Might as well use what you have. Even if it means it's a waste if tapping for your leader.

This is just a form of bragging about your success. Much respect for your 30th place finish, but next time save yourself the time of typing all that out.

Actually it quite the opposite as were llp's we don't raid and don't have the concrete to build the amounts of walls required for a battle but several wars I a row we gone very low walls and then none at all.

[Mr Gunny]

Plus in a top faction where money seems to grow on trees for you all what does it matter? You are going to get concrete from attacking and raiding regardless. Might as well use what you have. Even if it means it's a waste if tapping for your leader.

This is just a form of bragging about your success. Much respect for your 30th place finish, but next time save yourself the time of typing all that out.

Don't be ridiculous. There are much easier and direct ways of bragging about success.

This was a legitimate discussion that took place in Little Bravo after Italy and we thought we'd get the discussion rolling on here as well. TC isn't ordering anyone to avoid building walls, he's just offering another point of view.

Now yes for lower ranked factions, where wars are smaller scoring affairs, I can see the benefit of walls. But LB based our decision not to build walls on our past experiences, not just the most recent war. We have been making a steady push into higher rankings, but even when I first joined LB for India where we faced mostly top 750-1500 factions, walls were mostly just an annoyance. Both our opponents and us had the walls down in a few minutes, and they were really not a factor after the first few minutes. And now with Gree's latest screw up we weren't even taking down our opponents walls until the very end.

I didn't know there was so much attachment to walls here, apparently this is a touchy topic to some.

[mreilly]

Just to wade into the debate here. My faction went without walls and it didn't affect us at all. Many other factions in similar rank to us that had smaller streaks than us that all used level 15 walls. So who do walls benefit?? Gree for sure. Did i have to spend gold at night to take down walls? Yes.. Did it stop us from winning? No...

Walls are annoying and useless... they won't change who wins a battle.

For those wondering we finished top 200 somewhere.. not sure exactly where.

[Thunder Child]

Glad to see discussion is happening, in one form or another!

My point seems to have been missed or maybe it wasn't made clearly - NOT building walls can benefit lower level teams and take the pressure off valuable resources (time and real money) that they most of all can't afford to waste.

Think about it. A Top 1000 team builds a wall and then meets a Top 100 team - how much of a barrier does it actually represent? NOTHING! Most teams blow through walls without any effort or thought.

Added to this, NOT using a wall denies the Top 100 team some strategic options, such as keeping the wall up and doing a bit of discrete scouting ready for the blitz-type ending so many teams utilize.

No wall, no secret scouting and more preparation time for the weaker team....

Anybody who knows me will realize that far from blowing my own trumpet, I'm trying to suggest an alternative for teams that are currently blindly building walls either because they think they must or because GREE posted a thread suggesting as much.

[Drakhoan]

We used what was left from Italy and then only bought level 1-3 when trying to finish a streak. Our faction is low ranked, but it worked out better for us this round. Nice to save some cash and time upgrading the damn things.

The original post didn't seem like bragging to me... seemed like a walk through one factions thought process with an after action review.

Personally we are always needing cash and will probably never buy them for all wars again... but that is only in the event that gree doesn't make any game changes that would make it impractical. And we all know how gree has stayed true to this game.

[Supermanjr055]

we only built lvl 15 walls when we were on streak.:.. other then that we never build them... we saved money and concretes...

[Robespierre]

My point seems to have been missed or maybe it wasn't made clearly - NOT building walls can benefit lower level teams and take the pressure off valuable resources (time and real money) that they most of all can't afford to waste.

Hey Kissinger,

Get on the phone with Gree to negotiate a price break with increased product reliability, and then we will stand back in awe of your awesome persuasive skills.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Henry_Kissinger.png

Seriously, we're all depending on you now.

[mreilly]

On the subject of walls and not being able to scout discreetly... most top factions will have tons of intel on groups before entering a war. There were some factions that popped up repeatedly in our intel groups which prevented any need for scouting.

[Gen CheeBye]

Did anyone realized that you can still score good points with the wall being up? Just some food for thought.

[oakletixfan]

I have taken down a level 15 wall myself many times and I never got 10k points for doing it. It's like 80 points per hit dude. Walls make a huge difference

[ffp]

I have taken down a level 15 wall myself many times and I never got 10k points for doing it. It's like 80 points per hit dude. Walls make a huge difference

You used 5 medpacks for a WALL? Where were your teammates? :D

But yes, L15 wall is about 1.5k points and approx 24 hits.

[Gen CheeBye]

You used 5 medpacks for a WALL? Where were your teammates? :D

But yes, L15 wall is about 1.5k points and approx 24 hits.

I would've scored average of 200points each for the 24 hits with the wall intact. Why waste gold?

[oakletixfan]

You used 5 medpacks for a WALL? Where were your teammates? :D

But yes, L15 wall is about 1.5k points and approx 24 hits.

Yes I take down the wall myself sometimes. Usually when there is only free players in on the battle. Take one for the team

[oakletixfan]

I would've scored average of 200points each for the 24 hits with the wall intact. Why waste gold?

Your right it is a waste of gold. However I did still score 1700 wins and once I already had my 1500 individual goal I was just trying to help the free players on my team out so they can use their energy for wins and points. I'm a good dude!

[Gen CheeBye]

Your right it is a waste gold. However I did still score 1700 wins and once I already had my 1500 individual goal I was just trying to help the free players on my team out so they can use their energy for wins and points. I'm a good dude!

I need more of your type in my faction. We could use those 1500 hits. Lol

Anyways, I was just curious about your decision. Not trying to criticize it. :D

[SGT Rud]

Walls are always looked at as a line of defense and does get touchy to some who always thinks the strategy they use is superior to another. There is no one size fits all, and you must have multiple strategies for multiple battles which will change multiple times in a single day.

TC in the original post hit it on the head with the scouting portion. Leaving the walls up, allows you to scout (sometimes the entire team), without them even knowing it. With the new points difference at 75% vs 50%, its even less noticable. That team will think you have given up, and try to use the least amount of gold for a win so they can hold it for a battle which will require a huge points race. Allowing you to pop the wall in the last few minutes and surge points forward allowing you to do the same.

con - that other team has you with your pants down. If they want the win, they can drive up high enough that a fully scouted intel report might yield you at a disadvantage. Its going to depend on the other team, and what they want to drive to for a lead.

Pro - it requires more hits to start receiving full points during a battle (true), but if your sitting with 3 vaults of gold in a top 25/50 faction, other players you are with have also, a level 15 wall is nothing.

Pro/con - in the pits of top 1500/4000, walls mean more and less at the same time. Most faction down there have little or no gold use. When fighting another faction with a level 15 wall, you might not even have enough hits total by your players currently engaged in battle to finish it off. Plus why run up a level 15 wall, when 13 or even a 10 has the same effect. Your $$ could be better spent towards a faction bonus. (back when I was in the pits of top 4k, hitting a faction with a level 10 wall was the worst thing in the world).

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Its hard to argue with a man who has the prizes you want. He got them via the strategy he used. Question is did you get them through the strategy you used? Is his strategy better than your or yours than his? NO! The best overall strategy in any game, or real life for that matter, is one that has the ability to evolve during the battle in which it is being used.

There are several other strategies rolling with/without walls. I would love to keep the discussion rolling.

[Judas Goat]

Walls delay lower level factions.
Walls have no impact on higher level factions, or factions who use GOLD.
Walls aren't an impediment at any level, just an inconvenience.
Use walls, don't use walls, it's your fiction's choice.
With the current WD point trend falling, hitting a wall simply deprives someone of a few dozen more points.
Frankly, there's a NEW way of dealing with walls.
I won't say more, because the new technique is not that widely known.
So, ask yourself the question: To wall, or not to wall, that is the question.

[pelle plutt]

TC, I share your view, the walls are not necessary for a streak squad

[Speak Easy]

It would appear there is definitely no 'one size fits all'.

Whatever strategy suits your team, use it.

Walls will always suit Gree. It won't stop at 15.

This is not a new strategy. I haven't used a wall since about the 2nd or more likely the third war.

That doesn't mean its right for everyone.

[Maddog11]

Frankly, there's a NEW way of dealing with walls.
I won't say more, because the new technique is not that widely known.
Me doth thinks you've already said too much

[Judas Goat]

One LAST thing about walls....

There is someone who benefits from the building of a wall, the destruction of a wall.

Who suggested that walls should be built?

Guns or butter, Walls or boosts - Choose wisely.

Walls get destroyed, and must be rebuilt every WD.

Boosts are forever.

Unlike boosts on your base, fiction boosts can't be harmed!

Does that make the choice easier?

[kguittar]

Pro - it requires more hits to start receiving full points during a battle (true), but if your sitting with 3 vaults of gold in a top 25/50 faction, other players you are with have also, a level 15 wall is nothing.


^^This is pretty much the deciding factor if you need walls or not.

With all the faction hopping, concrete is easy to distribute to mini factions built around obtaining streak rewards. That level 15 wall could make all the difference when you are on win 6/7 pushing for that last one AND you are only ranked in the top 1000 with 23 members.

I agree, there is no cookie cutter method and whoever adapts the best succeeds. Our faction faced others with no wall; the only difference between a faction with a level 15 wall and no wall was the average defense was about 1.5 million vs. 5 million, respectively.

My original post was meant to say, if you have 39,000 concrete blocks sitting in your vault and the next faction bonus is 22 billion away, might as well use what you have and build some walls, or donate the resources to your LLP faction, to be the thorn in the side of some other faction.

but if you are a mini faction completely self funded, where concrete and cash can be few and far between, then you might want to rethink your strategy.

[andypandy2]

My circumstances are a bit different. I am a one man faction. I don't build walls or hit walls. I hit the DL. Even with the lower points, I can out score every faction I get paired with. I am sure it pisses them off when Cerial Box beats them without walls, their wall is wasted, and one guy stomps them. I know it is evil, but you have to find a way to continue to enjoy this game.

[JustTVH]

Bottom line walls are a waste of time. We only run them in one of our 3 factions. Only because they were given to us for some robin hood work we did.

[BigTex87]

Great thread on a hot topic of discussion! I agree that there is no once size fits all strategy.

Some top teams seeking streaks will leave your wall up and still beat you but it allows their members seeking individual wins to get hits in while holding the scoring down. This started happening when GREE came out with the 1000 win prize. They do not like facing a weak team with no walls because it is harder to prevent over scoring.

The problem for weak teams is the walls may mean the difference between a win and a loss when facing similar strength teams. The spend on walls vs bonus is not as easy as it would appear. If you are a good player on a low faction choosing to spend on walls should add to team win total putting more prizes in your account but sacrificing walls for faction bonus is a good strategy only if you are committed to remaining in that faction for the entire top 1000 to top 100 journey. The win prizes move on with you and the faction bonus stay.

[Maddog's Wife]

I think walls are helpful to the smaller factions, but until Gree has figured out how to implement the 25% points bit while walls are up....they are a non issue! and an annoyance. Most times, we left their wall,alone and got 275-300 points per hit anyway. Walls may make you feel safe, though... Like they are keeping the boogey man out. :)