Solving the match-ups

[SGT Rud]

We all have decided that WD is the bread and butter of MW. Its the whos who of factions. Shows the best, the most organized, the most strategic, and the most expensive battles. It also shows us that regardless of what faction you are in, outside of top 10, that there are factions with 40%-60% of their players do not even have a target to hit. Why is it that we get pitted against some the the strongest teams out there, and most of the players have to hit the wall, CC, or sit out. If your level 200 and above, you are probably getting more points from 4 CC hits than a PA to a player. I can get 70-80 points on each CC hit 4xCC= 320 vs. a PA at maybe 250?

If WD is the ultimate showdown, then why not adjust it to use more than just health. Shouldn't it use all your players resources, stamina and energy included?

Instead of having a PA for each player outside of the DL, that button should be turned into a raid button. Then you can go to that persons base and drop some boost buildings for some WD points too. Maybe the first two hits on a building at 5 points, and the third hit at 10 points. The basic idea here is that if you have players on your team that just dont have a target, a stronger player can go there, drop some boosts, and open it up. Use the stamina to gain a bit of WD points as well. It is a huge pain to endlessly search through the rivals list and maybe cross the player you are looking for from your WD screen.

Maybe the use of energy should come into play as well. Instead of running a CC in which you can score your measly 80 points-ish per hit, give the other faction a new map level, call it the (factions names base). In this case, you can travel to that factions Command Base. On the base are a few buildings, and each building is a specific faction bonus that you purchase through donations in the faction menu, ie:cash output, health regen... The point of this is to use your energy to further drop the strength of the opposing team.

Just as an example: now when the top 400-ish team draws SUP2, they have a chance of getting a few extra points and wont feel ripped off. They will still more than likely lose, but wont just have to sit and watch their rank drop from hot being able to score any points other than CC hits. Some of the top 10 teams just might have a chance at one of the top 3 spots by bringing some strategy back instead of "he who spends more wins". That model is still there, but at least its now "he who spends wisely wins".

My fellow players - I am going to add a poll to this to see what you guys think. A simple yes or no.

[sraghav42]

Yaa just bored with the conventional wd mechanism. We need something new!!!!

[Brizzol]

A constructive post! Good ideas, would like this implemented as it would spice things up a little bit... Perhaps not the faction boosts though as this will probably lead to faction boosts meaning nothing during WD as they will be down constantly.

[SGT Rud]

A constrictive post! Good ideas, would like this implemented as it would spice things up a little bit... Perhaps not the faction boosts though as this will probably lead to faction boosts meaning nothing during WD as they will be down constantly.

Just as you can go to your own base and reset your own buildings, lets make it so that the faction base is accessible through the faction menu and you can reset those as well.

You can even go a step further and create purchasable faction base defensive buildings that can help protect them. Such that it would take some higher stat opponents to drop your factions defensive buildings, and not just anyone can do it.

Make it so that you can only access the opponents faction base after the wall is dropped.

[Bobar]

I do enjoy the wd almost as it is. we should not have 1 Player factions though. gree should just bring back the ranking aspect for match ups - and not give out high Units for an parallel Event.

[Brizzol]

I enjoy it the way it is too but wouldn't mind a few extra ways to score points, especially when there are no targets for the majority of players.

[HGF69]

I like the thought behind it, the match up needs another angle we all agree, something thats a bit more tactical than button pushing. Only downside is that Gree uses the same engine across most of its games so a tweak one place is gonna have to be across the board - will they do that? IMO No.

[amir1974]

We all have decided that WD is the bread and butter of MW. Its the whos who of factions. Shows the best, the most organized, the most strategic, and the most expensive battles. It also shows us that regardless of what faction you are in, outside of top 10, that there are factions with 40%-60% of their players do not even have a target to hit. Why is it that we get pitted against some the the strongest teams out there, and most of the players have to hit the wall, CC, or sit out. If your level 200 and above, you are probably getting more points from 4 CC hits than a PA to a player. I can get 70-80 points on each CC hit 4xCC= 320 vs. a PA at maybe 250?

If WD is the ultimate showdown, then why not adjust it to use more than just health. Shouldn't it use all your players resources, stamina and energy included?

Instead of having a PA for each player outside of the DL, that button should be turned into a raid button. Then you can go to that persons base and drop some boost buildings for some WD points too. Maybe the first two hits on a building at 5 points, and the third hit at 10 points. The basic idea here is that if you have players on your team that just dont have a target, a stronger player can go there, drop some boosts, and open it up. Use the stamina to gain a bit of WD points as well. It is a huge pain to endlessly search through the rivals list and maybe cross the player you are looking for from your WD screen.

Maybe the use of energy should come into play as well. Instead of running a CC in which you can score your measly 80 points-ish per hit, give the other faction a new map level, call it the (factions names base). In this case, you can travel to that factions Command Base. On the base are a few buildings, and each building is a specific faction bonus that you purchase through donations in the faction menu, ie:cash output, health regen... The point of this is to use your energy to further drop the strength of the opposing team.

Just as an example: now when the top 400-ish team draws SUP2, they have a chance of getting a few extra points and wont feel ripped off. They will still more than likely lose, but wont just have to sit and watch their rank drop from hot being able to score any points other than CC hits. Some of the top 10 teams just might have a chance at one of the top 3 spots by bringing some strategy back instead of "he who spends more wins". That model is still there, but at least its now "he who spends wisely wins".

My fellow players - I am going to add a poll to this to see what you guys think. A simple yes or no.




i love your idea . keep it up Sgt

[daniel pena]

man, I have to agree
this Idea is PERFECT

I always imagined how we could attack faction bonuses... but never gone to this way

UP!! this would be very nice!!

[DTA-HOG]

I like it the way it is. I think it's about 36 hours too long. I really get burnt out on it and most have to work on Mondays as well.

[Blade of 3]

I think it would be too much work. It is bad enough that you have to check in all the time to attack, but doing all that would be too time consuming for me. Instead of changing the mechanics of wars, I think they should just refine the match up system to prevent the lop sided battles. for instance, I think they should implement a filter that searches for teams that at least a couple players on your team can beat.

[Agent Orange]

Though this seems like a good idea I think in the long run it will actually help the strong teams as much as the weak ones.

The matching system itself has flaws which could be addressed, mainly the way it kills streaks.

My first thought after reading the OP is that it isn't a problem with the matching as much as it's a problem with the design of your faction. Granted even with my idea I've hit such lopsided matches that even that strategy doesn't work.

[SGT Rud]

I agree. most factions that I see are lopsided now. It seems more successful to have a team of 50-60 with very similiar stats accross the board, but most range from the 15m-5m spread out. In terms of a heavy def for PvP, the composites factory is a must, but regarding WD, whereby only attacks can occur, finding suitable targets is much more difficult.

Regarding it helping the high tier as much as the low, you are absolutely correct, it benefits everyone. It is meant to bring strategy back into game play. If the opposing team were to just attack to gain points, the other team could be lowering their stats, thereby opening up def wins as the opposing teams stats dropped. Then some of the individuals would now have targets that they didnt have before. As the opposing team scrambled to repair their buildings, you would be able to gain some points and either jump ahead or maybe just catch up.

We had a few fights in which not a single person on our team could hit anybody on theirs. That team crossed 200k in points in 10 minutes. (Very disheartening) Basicly when you see that team pop up, and you have to say - well see you guys back here in an hour, fighting for streaks and wins is a waste of a weekend unless you can keep up in points via hitting the CC (as in 600k points from CC hits).

Dropping the other persons buildings are things we already do (selectly). Once scouting takes place, if you see someone you know is in your rivals list, you can search, and search, and search, and search.....eventually at the 2 minutes left in battle you will find them, open it up for additional players to hit, but its too late in the battle at that point depending on the points gap. All this is doing is fast tracking that process.

after the DL is open, even if your only hit you have available is a PA to another player, your points will likely be in the 200-300 range. While 4 hits on the CC yield 80 ish per hit. 80x4=320. With this particular math, why have the ability to PA players after the DL is down other than the slim chance of scoring more than 320 points. If you have full intentions of going for a streak, and refills are going to be used, would you rather get 300 points for a refill, 320 points per refill, or drop boosts and get 1200 points per refill (based on 300 points per hit).

[SGT Rud]

I am going to resurface this idea and see what everyone's thoughts are still, with the large assortment of streak teams rolling around out there. I fought in several different tier levels this past weekend, and found 3 man, 7 man, and 10-15 man streak teams in all tiers. Even my top 4k faction fought streak teams. Streak, streak, streak, streak, STREAK!

If your not for this idea, then help to try and evolve it into something you would like to see get implemented. Yes, Gree may not implement anything. But, we can still discuss our ideas right?

No NPCs released over the weekend. Energy sat. I could see lots of people asking what to spend their energy on. My groupme and email here was full of "what can I hit with energy". Last week there was a thread on "I want to burn my stamina". Isnt WD supposed to prove who is the best of the best. Shouldnt it use all the resources, not just health.

[jkpandian]

I just want to able to punch back, we are T250 we sit out 60% of the battles and spend gold on then rest to maintain ranking. Maybe Gree should change matchups based on "average" faction stats rather than "sum" of stats, it will opportunity for more than 50% of the teams to participate. We met 10 man teams with 20M stats when our max stats is 7M, and most of us are around 2.5-3.5M

[Big John]

I think they should drop the streaks and have a separate event for them.

Suggested before they could have mini faction v faction events.

[Ysae Kaeps ASU]

That seems like a the most difficult coding to write in order to fix up the pairing system coding.

I cannot imagine Gree can get that right. There will be other issues as a result. You can well imagine.

Just fix the pairing system Gree and stop being cute with it.

Then fix the rest of it so it works more often than not.

Great thought Ruddie, but making it too complex in order to fix something that itself can easily be fixed to level the playing field.

[Hellish]

I like the way you are thinking Rud! What you are saying would really change the way that wars go down. I even voted yes on your poll. My issue is that we all spend hours playing this game for the duration of the war. I don't care to spend another 2 hours a day playing this game for that duration. Don't get me wrong I love the game for the most part but there needs to be some limit. If this change doesn't go through I would at least love to see the matches change. Most teams will not do over 60 battles. So I would say 30 teams above and 30 teams below your current ranking would be the most fair for matches. Now yes this would allow the sand bag teams to better facilitate their goal of streaks but at the same time more higher level teams would move in the same direction making it that much more of a challenge to reach the streak goals. I am still new to this game but figure this out Gree!

[J V]

This would make this game so much better it's ridiculous!!! I would seriously love love to see this implemented

[Archer59]

Nice ideas Rud. There would still be many instances where players would not even be able to raid though, as the match ups occasionally are so out of whack. The "rank" value needs to be removed from the match-up equation and it should be simplified to a factions average defensive stats. That said, I like your proposal as it would be a step in the right direction.

[CC1]

That seems like a the most difficult coding to write in order to fix up the pairing system coding.

I cannot imagine Gree can get that right. There will be other issues as a result. You can well imagine.

Just fix the pairing system Gree and stop being cute with it.

Then fix the rest of it so it works more often than not.

Great thought Ruddie, but making it too complex in order to fix something that itself can easily be fixed to level the playing field.

On the surface, I like your idea Sgt Rud. I've always appreciated your valuable and insightful posts. And, if I could be confident that it would be done right I'd be in favor of adding more tactical/strategic options. However, as Ysae Kaeps ASU points out, it's almost guaranteed to be screwed up. Heck, Gree can't even implement simple, longstanding, elements glitch-free. Let's remember the service provider's abilities (or lack there of).

Like everyone, we came across these streak teams numerous times whose weakest player was stronger than our strongest player by several million (even more than double on several occasions). How frustrating it is to have half our 30 member team available to fight and lose to a 5 person team. I would like the sum of stats matching changed. But, if that's not possible, give more points for command center hits. That way, volume of fire available better reflects the strength in numbers.

This adds nothing to the richness or depth of the game like your idea. But it is simple. It only requires changing the value of one variable in the code (cmdctr.value=80 vs cmdctr.value=120). So simple maybe even Gree could do it (after the obligatory 6 months of glitches and complaints of course).

[SGT Rud]

The issue with some of the match-ups as pointed in other threads, some of the very strong teams have to fight someone, and the standards loosened so as to solve some of the match-up times. Our regular team were able to beat a couple of the streak teams in play this go around via coordinated CC hits. But CC hits don't get you anywhere other than a possible win. Given the scenario that you are trying to keep your points low early in WD, CC hits aren't doing anything for you later in WD when you are going for rank.

As for the streak teams, yes in most cases, their combined strength equaled our combined strength, so in essence the fight was fair, to an extent. However the idea presented above does allow some ability to drop faction boosts, or individuals building boosts, thereby possibly giving you a target to score points. It might not work in all cases, but should in some.

To address another issue placed in this thread, time it takes in battle. Yes, there would be more that you could do in the one hour battle, but the battle would still be one hour. It would help both gold players and free players alike. I have seen some of the WD only gold players sitting on their hands doing nothing for 4-5 battles straight because they didn't have a target to hit. That's a little counter-productive considering that they are trying to get more wins in for the individual goal. As an officer with my faction, I want them to succeed, and if I could drop boost buildings to give them a target, it beats telling them to burn it all in a easier battle where by we win by 150K points simply because they are trying to catch up in fights won. Benefiting free players as lots do not have quick regen. Basically what they generally do is place their free hit till empty, then sit on their hands for 50-55 minutes and see if they need to do something for the end of the battle. This isn't really fun for them either. The idea presented would give them something else to do to contribute to the team.

There was the point of the team can also do it to you, so it would even out. Yes, the other team could do it to you. If my faction and base have weak bonuses, and my stats are comprised solely on very strong 100K+ units, then dropping my weak bonuses isn't going to change my stats to a significant amount. But if you have average units, and strong boosts and bonuses, dropping those might drop my stats significantly. You will never get the same outcome with each team you face.

As for the match-up algorythm. It doesnt appear as if they are going to change much to fix something that they don't see as broken. I will use a specific post above. If your match-up can only use 30 ranks above and below, what if all 60 teams are currently engaged in battle, how long could your wait be? For the streak team we put together, it placed top 150, and I am willing to bet that any team 30 ranks above and below that team would want to have fought us. I did see a thread somewhere in here of guys talking about horrible mathc-ups, and our streaks team was mentioned specifically as one of the top guys you did not want to face. But I ensure you, through the idea posted above, they would have been.

Generally the idea isn't about trying to win, because when it comes to a gold match that is running points up, having more of it and the willingness to use it will be the over all winner. The concept here is the ability to present more targets to more of your team if you are able. Keep the info coming in though. I really do appreciate the feedback. I like to know if my idea is supported by the community. And who knows, if it is widely supported, maybe Gree will take it into consideration.

[Agent Orange]

LOL CC1 Like the idea, it's simple and effective and even Gree could impliment it without screwing it up..... Perhaps...

In the very first WD we could see who attacked us in our news feed and travel back to their base, was interesting except that a really weak player got decimated if the screwed up and hit a really strong player and that player used their speed dial.

But what was interesting was that the game did try and match factions within groupings based on the number of members. Now we are matched based on ovarall stats so the logical tactic is to form mini factions with high stat players.

Spinning back to the post above, raising the value of CC hits makes sense since it can even out lopsided pairings to a degree and I can see variations on strategy for those having to use it and those defending against it.

Perhaps another thing to consider is basing the value of points scored when attacking the wall based on it's strength so hitting a L10 is worth more then a lower level.

[Agent Orange]

I guess the only problem with being able to take down boosts is that you could still hit a monster mini faction (MMF) that nobody could find a boost building to kill.

One thing I have noticed in several WDs is that some guys do go around taking down your boosts so I always log out every time I see that I have been raided in order to see if some wanker hit my boosts. So it would be very easy to counter someone taking down your boosts...

[free play]

this is a reply that I got regarding match ups, see what ye think Rud.

Hello,

Thank you for your message about your World Domination match-ups. The system looks at the following to determine an appropriate rival faction:

--The overall strength of your faction: The sum of your faction's power will be compared to the sum of the other faction's power when looking for potential match-ups.

--The Faction's WD Rank: This is based on how well you are doing in the event.

--How many match-ups you have had with the faction during the event.

As time goes on without a match, the parameters will relax slightly.

Please keep in mind:

-- It can take up to an hour to receive a match after declaring war

--You may not declare war within the last hour of the event

If you have any further questions about the game please let me know.

Regards,
Gracie
Team GREE

[A R T S]

This may be put in the wrong thread but....
If the overal goal is to get 50 wins and try for the win streaks"10" why not make it a marathon. To get 10in a row it'll take 55 wins, so instead of battling for 4 days"roughly" , why not do a 60hr marathon and that way people can dedicate that time"if willing" to play.

[SGT Rud]

Free Play - I have gotten the same email. I concur with how they say it works. I am willing to believe that a bunch or others can agree to that particular email, however, they still don't like it.

Issue -
If you have a faction of 10 guys, with 5mil atk and 10 mil def, and a rival team of 10 guys with the same stats, then the algorythm has worked, however, neither team can attack each other other than the CC.

[free play]

it's fxcked up alright, we don't go for the streak as the match ups are so bad, so we may get 35 battles in, it should be done on rank not stats, at least if your ranked 300 you should be match up with some one 100 place either side of you, we where getting match with teams in the top 150 and we where outside 600, I know it's happened allot to allot over the last 4 wars, it has to change, the game is going down fast

[Blodiea]

I think that they should base wd points like bp the closer you are in stats the higher the number of points received to a max of 450. This way when you fight a faction that dwarfs your stats your cc hits are almost as good as there attacks.

[SGT Rud]

I issue with rank - Lets say you come in rank 750. Maybe the team that comes in rank 751 is an extremely heavy gold spending team, but they have decided to never spend gold during WD, so they routinely rank around 750, but there stats are 30 mil - 60 mil from the LTQs they complete. Is going by the rank a fair match, in essence they didnt even get the top 750 prize like you did.

The point of the ideas some are creating isnt to try and get Gree or change some algorythm to will give you some weak team that you can beat up all day. It is to get evenly matched or get a tougher team by which you can create your own envirornment where you can be successful and win.

As for my example in post #27, how is this a bad match up, they are exactly the same. Each team is dead even on stats and players. there is no difference between them. This is the ideal match the system is trying to achieve, allthough its possibility is less than that of you winning a lottery ticket to visit an alien planet and become there wealthiest resident.

I agree the match-ups are bad. However there isnt an algorythm out there that anyone can come up with to perfect it to make everyone happy. If I rank in top 250, there is no way the stars can align and give me perfect matches every time I declare. Even giving the possibility of + or - 100 rank in either direction.

Even if you dont like my idea presented in post #1, I urge you to consider other possibilities other than getting some not even top 4000 faction to beat up on with 10K stats. What else should you be able to do in the WD screen when presented a bad match-up other than tell your team "see you in an hour"?