One way to determine best guild...

[Hai2yooo]

first get rid of stripping somehow and have a cap on gems just for ONE war plz GREE.

think everyone here wants to see if guilds are as good strategically and as strong without infinite gems. maybe cap ONE gw at 2k gems just so we can really see who is the best guild all around n not the biggest spending guild. this is not a complaint or to whine. i really would just want to see if some guilds are as strong, smart, and strategically intelligent as they appear. would be great to see. im sure a diff top 10 would arise. anyone else agree? thoughts?

[toogoodformyowngood]

first get rid of stripping somehow and have a cap on gems just for ONE war plz GREE.

think everyone here wants to see if guilds are as good strategically and as strong without infinite gems. maybe cap ONE gw at 2k gems just so we can really see who is the best guild all around n not the biggest spending guild. this is not a complaint or to whine. i really would just want to see if some guilds are as strong, smart, and strategically intelligent as they appear. would be great to see. im sure a diff top 10 would arise. anyone else agree? thoughts?

It's a great idea but I doubt Gree would ever want to implement such a thing.

lol? Gree can earn maybe 150-200k for each war but u ask them to earn a max of 20k? Why would any business accept that? What's Gree gonna tell their shareholders?

And with there being no fixed point system, how is anything strategic. I.e I hit till all my gems are gone (refills+free refills)* random points = winner? Points are still random. So the winner would be who's more lucky?



isnt that more dependent on luck. and maybe how hardcore are the top guilds in getting the "free refills".

Imagine u were Gree u could earn 200k on a war and Im asking you to earn 50k instead, would you do it?

K n D will always be a p 2 win game. no way around it. sadly but true. if u want skills etc. maybe play guildwars 2 or wow, or even Starcraft 2.

Lol. and how is there anything to do with being strong, smart / strategically intelligent. Top 10 guilds would most likely still dominate. However, there would be more of a luck element involved as points are still random.

top 5 guild could have everyone buying max 2k gems and RR would probably still dominate because its hard to go up agagainst a full EPIC plus team.

[imTectonic]

It's a great idea but I doubt Gree would ever want to implement such a thing.

lol? Gree can earn maybe 150-200k for each war but u ask them to earn a max of 20k? Why would any business accept that? What's Gree gonna tell their shareholders?

And with there being no fixed point system, how is anything strategic. I.e I hit till all my gems are gone (refills+free refills)* random points = winner? Points are still random. So the winner would be who's more lucky?



isnt that more dependent on luck. and maybe how hardcore are the top guilds in getting the "free refills".

Imagine u were Gree u could earn 200k on a war and Im asking you to earn 50k instead, would you do it?

K n D will always be a p 2 win game. no way around it. sadly but true. if u want skills etc. maybe play guildwars 2 or wow, or even Starcraft 2.

Lol. and how is there anything to do with being strong, smart / strategically intelligent. Top 10 guilds would most likely still dominate. However, there would be more of a luck element involved as points are still random.

top 5 guild could have everyone buying max 2k gems and RR would probably still dominate because its hard to go up agagainst a full EPIC plus team.

Gree is a privately owned stock so more like their board members

[toogoodformyowngood]

Gree is a privately owned stock so more like their board members

Last i checked GREE Inc was listed in Japan. Not sure if anything has changed since.

[Tachy]

The Rainbow Room has all the Epic+ armors and as such, will most likely prevail if all else was equal.

But yes, I would love to see stripping fixed so there would be a bit more strategy to the game.

[AlbertEvolve]

There is a way for gree to make it work. For Gree


First gree announces the war with a max limit for gems.
Then it creates a new Epic chest 2 weeks in advance. Anybody who wants to dethrone RR will hit the chest like crazy to get and max out epic plus armors. Odds are as usual minuscule but with the upcoming war everybody needs the epic + armors.

Then the limit is announced - 10000 gems. This limit is more than many dpa and some rr spenders. But now since there is a limit, many people will max out and buy 10k gems. Maybe give a 40% discount to sweeten the deal.

The final kicker - allow gamers to buy a special capability - max points (eg 400 for defeating a gm, 300 for a gc, 250 for a HC, and 200 for a commander using $$. If not bought then points are random.

I'm sure many players will buy the capability and gree makes $$$$ while gamers get a war of 'strategy'.

Not sure it really will be but if it's the will of the people .....

[Amesbhe]

A cap would be nice, but would never happen. Gree's a business on top of everything else. Gaming is a huge business and some people would go without eating just to be on top. It's an addiction, not unlike any type of drug. Be the same as asking cigarette or beer companies to put a limit on how much anyone could bur.


It's a nice dream though. My guild will pop off gems, but never be on top, because we don't buy ridiculous amounts of gems. And it's a huge shame there's alot of players out there who don't understand this. They want a top guild, for top prizes, not understanding they need to spend an insane amount of money to be in these guilds. Nice dream though. One I share.

[Paladineguru]

Live the dream, u only go around once and you can't take the money with you. Nobody gets out of life alive :))

[Hildigam]

Pretty sure on Ios RR has been top dog since the beginning. Why is this still and issue?

[busteroaf]

There is a way for gree to make it work. For Gree


First gree announces the war with a max limit for gems.
Then it creates a new Epic chest 2 weeks in advance. Anybody who wants to dethrone RR will hit the chest like crazy to get and max out epic plus armors. Odds are as usual minuscule but with the upcoming war everybody needs the epic + armors.

Then the limit is announced - 10000 gems. This limit is more than many dpa and some rr spenders. But now since there is a limit, many people will max out and buy 10k gems. Maybe give a 40% discount to sweeten the deal.

The final kicker - allow gamers to buy a special capability - max points (eg 400 for defeating a gm, 300 for a gc, 250 for a HC, and 200 for a commander using $$. If not bought then points are random.

I'm sure many players will buy the capability and gree makes $$$$ while gamers get a war of 'strategy'.

Not sure it really will be but if it's the will of the people .....

Are you high?

[Eunuchorn]

There is a way for gree to make it work. For Gree


First gree announces the war with a max limit for gems.
Then it creates a new Epic chest 2 weeks in advance. Anybody who wants to dethrone RR will hit the chest like crazy to get and max out epic plus armors. Odds are as usual minuscule but with the upcoming war everybody needs the epic + armors.

Then the limit is announced - 10000 gems. This limit is more than many dpa and some rr spenders. But now since there is a limit, many people will max out and buy 10k gems. Maybe give a 40% discount to sweeten the deal.

The final kicker - allow gamers to buy a special capability - max points (eg 400 for defeating a gm, 300 for a gc, 250 for a HC, and 200 for a commander using $$. If not bought then points are random.

I'm sure many players will buy the capability and gree makes $$$$ while gamers get a war of 'strategy'.

Not sure it really will be but if it's the will of the people .....

How is this any different than what is already being done...what would stop RR from buying tons of chests & then buying 10,000 gems each?

[theRussian]

Lol won't work

[busteroaf]

How is this any different than what is already being done...what would stop RR from buying tons of chests & then buying 10,000 gems each?

Maybe hoping RR will magically all miss the sale/chest?

Again: High.

[Eunuchorn]

I Reread his post & I'm only more bewildered by the logix.

He wants to prove who the true best guild is by putting a gem cap that is higher than what most RR members already spend, & offer a new option to buy a point cap for certain guild titles?

So confused....

[AlbertEvolve]

Glad to see I attracted eun and busters attention.

I was responding to the comment that the previous idea that gree wouldn't put a cap on gems because they make less money. Put a high enough cap and gree would still make money.

Secondly most players don't have a plethora of epic plus armors unlike rr. So they would loose even in a straight fight.

Put out a chest with plenty of epic plus and the playing field is flat because very one including all the rr players have full epics

Put a gem cap so it isn't a question of money

Put a standard point for a win so that it isn't a question of luck


This reduces the number of variables

However it won't remove the fact that some guilds have more dedicated players who sleep less, or players who know how to match and switch armors and hence maximise wins. It won't remove stripping so some alliances will still get more wins.

I didn't say it would be a 'strategic fight' I said if the people wanted it then there is a way for gree to do it and still make money.

I think RR would win anyway. The only difference is that it won't be because of the number of gems or stronger armors.

And I did assume that rr members would max all the gems and buy all the chests. The only diff is that others would try and do the same to match

[AlbertEvolve]

Btw I am surprised at having to explain some of the logic and sarcasm to eun and buster. Always thought they were among the more intelligent trollers in the forum

Guess I have to agree with them. I was wrong and confused.

[Street Shark]

RR is the best guild /thread

[busteroaf]

Btw I am surprised at having to explain some of the logic and sarcasm to eun and buster. Always thought they were among the more intelligent trollers in the forum

Guess I have to agree with them. I was wrong and confused.

I think part of the "explaining the logic and sarcasm" part was that your logic made no sense, and there was very little sarcasm to be found when I read that.

Having a cap that high, much higher than most would ever spend, isn't a cap. I wouldn't want to buy 10k gems "just because" it was the cap. That seems silly. Your point of "make it high enough and they'll still make money" - I get that. But with a cap that high, and with a general public that spends 1/50th of that or less, you just end up angering more people, not solving any problems.

Also, your focus on everyone needing an Epic+ to win is silly. People still take down Epics with Boss armors. Maybe to take down RR sure, as they have a solid group that have been with them for multiple wars, winning all 5 Epic+. Does that give them the advantage? Sure, but why shouldn't they have it? They won.

And much like below:


RR is the best guild /thread

[Eunuchorn]

Btw I am surprised at having to explain some of the logic and sarcasm to eun and buster. Always thought they were among the more intelligent trollers in the forum

Guess I have to agree with them. I was wrong and confused.

& here I was thinking you couldn't lose any more credibility. /clap. You're either an ok troll or fell asleep in class the day they taught critical thinking.

[Hai2yooo]

It's a great idea but I doubt Gree would ever want to implement such a thing.

lol? Gree can earn maybe 150-200k for each war but u ask them to earn a max of 20k? Why would any business accept that? What's Gree gonna tell their shareholders?

And with there being no fixed point system, how is anything strategic. I.e I hit till all my gems are gone (refills+free refills)* random points = winner? Points are still random. So the winner would be who's more lucky?



isnt that more dependent on luck. and maybe how hardcore are the top guilds in getting the "free refills".

Imagine u were Gree u could earn 200k on a war and Im asking you to earn 50k instead, would you do it?

K n D will always be a p 2 win game. no way around it. sadly but true. if u want skills etc. maybe play guildwars 2 or wow, or even Starcraft 2.

Lol. and how is there anything to do with being strong, smart / strategically intelligent. Top 10 guilds would most likely still dominate. However, there would be more of a luck element involved as points are still random.

top 5 guild could have everyone buying max 2k gems and RR would probably still dominate because its hard to go up agagainst a full EPIC plus team.

I'm not sure if u have played long enough but there r minor strategic moves guilds can make n individual players can make within gw to change outcomes of a war. Seasoned vets know so I won't explain it further.

In addition, yes. Rr has all the + armors but that doesn't mean they are unbeatable. Anyone knows if u have the right setup anyone can be taken down.

N the argument about "gree is a business and will nvr do that". If they r a business solely for profit than y not do gw every 3 weeks? Every 2? Every week? They CAN do a ONE TIME gem cap gw js like how they did a keys event for the BM. There's ALWAYS an opportunity for "special events". This can be one of them. They still make money but they can give back to the player base what we want. A special war where we can see who can beat the best. N at the moment it's rr. Btw beast keys were FREE n gree did it. Many got FREE epics.

[Hai2yooo]

Also if u still think they r losing money then instead of a blitz war do the gem cap war. They get more money because players don't really do blitz n I KNOW players would participate more in a gem cap war than a blitz war any day. For example rr and dpa sat out blitz war before. They place top25 tho

[toogoodformyowngood]

I'm not sure if u have played long enough but there r minor strategic moves guilds can make n individual players can make within gw to change outcomes of a war. Seasoned vets know so I won't explain it further.

In addition, yes. Rr has all the + armors but that doesn't mean they are unbeatable. Anyone knows if u have the right setup anyone can be taken down.

N the argument about "gree is a business and will nvr do that". If they r a business solely for profit than y not do gw every 3 weeks? Every 2? Every week? They CAN do a ONE TIME gem cap gw js like how they did a keys event for the BM. There's ALWAYS an opportunity for "special events". This can be one of them. They still make money but they can give back to the player base what we want. A special war where we can see who can beat the best. N at the moment it's rr. Btw beast keys were FREE n gree did it. Many got FREE epics.

Lol, honestly? I don't know what strategic moves that you are talking about. But I doubt it's much. Hmm, trying to battle your rivals by declaring around the same time. Armor stripping? Changing armors? lol. I doubt Rr win with much "strategy" its just goes down to hardcore gemming and maybe armor stripping, declaring the same time to obtain the "friendly guild" so that u can perform stripping? Idk, did i miss anything else? Still pretty much hardcore gemming. Constraint is probably the gems. If a guild just gems 24/7 and has war 24/7 gems the full 1 hour. Is that strategy? Maybe your definition of strategy could be quite wide.

Rr could do the same thing and change their armor set up. To go up against a guild like RR would be quite difficult cuz you might lose at least once first. but if the person keeps changing u might as well just dun bother attacking them. Usually its all about finding a weak target and farming them.

Rr have all the +armors doesn't mean that they are unbeatable? Yea, it does mean that the ODDs are greatly against you guys. Cause on average you'll probably get alot more losses as compared to an average Rr member. I'm not surprised to see a 2k gem cap with Rr winning again at a lower cost. You could say its the 1st movers advantage.

And seriously with their bonuses being so high and armors being so strong, even if u have counter armors u might not win, especially against the HC/Sent/GC/GM. So no bonus points for you. Hmm... Should I go on? Probably your best bet of winning Rr is to get a rich sponsor and some china wow farmers to play 24/7 on shifts and just spam gems till the charts burst.

Lol and I can safely say that. No GREE might give you guys free stuff. I.e LTQ, but GREE limiting their revenue for the sake of competition? Definitely a big NO.

Giving free chest and limiting gems for GW is a VERY big difference. Free chests does not cost GREE anything. But limiting gems in GW actually costs them something. And when it costs the company something, it just doesnt fly well with management/directors/shareholders if they ever find out.

Make no mistake GREE is not a charity and is purely a profit making business. And if you got the idea that Gree is not solely out there for profit I don't know where you are getting that idea from.

Having GW every week just doesn't benefit them as much. If you have something too often it will cause players to cut down on spending and if they had GW every week their programmers would have to work over time which might mean more wages spend on OT hours. Having GW every week also not increase their revenue much because players will decrease on spending per war due to budget constraints. Imagine spending 100-300 every week on GW?

The main issue is that, I dont think GREE have sufficient resources to do it currently and like I said earlier. Cost benefit analysis. It's not easy to go from GW every 2 weeks to GW every week. New armors, new art work plus working on new EB and also new content i.e (new arena and new areas). It's alot of work that goes behind the scenes and programmers needs to get paid as well. Nothing is free.

[Hai2yooo]

1. Point of gem cap war means u can't gem 24/7. That alone requires tactic. When to attack. Who to attack. U r LIMITED gems so each one counts substantially more in value compared to a limitless gem war. U hit ur limited gems "24/7" n r depleted day 1. Then u r forced to sit back n watch. Timing. That along is ONE strat.

2. RR has lost straight up before. To cents I'm 100% sure. I think they have lost to ut also. Not 100% sure tho. I'm pointing this out because u r trying to make arguemeant that they aren't beatable. Sure it's tough but it can be done. U r also forgetting outside factors. Member activity. One guild can have more on at one time than another n lose by shear number game.

3. U talk about rr can do same with switching armor. That's irrelevant. This happens all the time rr or not. U don't always perfectly match up element wise with someone so u switch n vise versa. Don't get ur point at all with that lol

4. Yes go on. This thread is about a gem cap war. N ur still talkin bout beating them with gems.

5. Again... ONE gem cap war replacing blitz would only help gree. Even you kno this so don't come back with that tired argument of "it's a business". That's the type of argument people use when they don't know how else to rebuttal. I'm saying ONE WAR. Not so it every freakin war. ONE WAR isn't gonna make them go "out of business".

Out of curiously. Which guild r u from?

[Hai2yooo]

N u just made an argument that counters ur own argument. U say programmers n graphics designers need to get paid to conceptually come up with new art. By YOUR statement wouldn't this mean that these paid designers r making FREE bm chests for the consumer? So which is it? The "free chests" magically appear and that's y they don't cost gree anything? Or do they actually "lose money" because they r doin a free limited event with no spending?

[template]

If you cap spending, all the better because RR gets cheaper epics.

Realistically speaking, with a cap on gem spending, it means that guys with gear that isn't as good will pretty much rule themselves out of the top places. Will scouting be more important? Sure but the moment you have a guild that is dedicated and armor swaps constantly, say goodbye to your precious limited gems because you will likely rack up more losses than wins. Have fun explaining to your commanders that they are going to be doing really little in the war , especially against the top guilds with better gear and bonuses.

But more practically, you're asking gree to essentially cut their own revenue. Why in the world would they do that? So long as there are enough free players that are content with how things are (and it seems there are enough) based on the total number of guilds taking part in the last war, why should they even consider something like that?

[template]

The other point re beast keys: gree may have given some free keys out but that didn't stop their revenue generation. Do you know of anyone who spent gems on more keys? Sure you do. Boom, that's revenue for gree right there. Know anyone who spent gems on the limited time quests? Probably. Again, revenue.

You look at it as if it was only those keys that were given when it was just a little tease to entice us to spend more on chests. Sure, some people had great results but I can guarantee epics didn't just drop into everyone's lap because of the free keys.

[cafedecoy]

ahhh.. see the thing is... play strategy and everything is part of the game, but so is spending gems to boost up your stats. So while it may be true that many think the balance between pure strategy vs gem spending boost is a bit off (although there are strategies associated with spending your gems in a smart way too so there's no clear black and white boundary, but I digress) ... but I'm not sure if you can eliminate the gems entirely.

I think debates like these will never end. If, hypothetically. you remove gems completely, then I think a bunch of people will whine about how such and such guild has all of its 40 members who don't have life obligations and infinite access to coffee and they are able to outlast everyone by not sleeping and playing the game non-stop. You can keep removing layers and layers but ultimately I am not sure if this will ever get to a point where everyone will agree on.

...and of course, we can keep redefining what the definition of the "best guild" is until the said best guild becomes your guild LOL Aren't most threads like these started with a bit of thinly veiled self-entitlement anyway?

But as a simpler solution, why don't you adapt to just ignoring what "place" your guild made it to and just develop a sense of pride towards your own guild and your guild-mates for what YOU perceive as positive attributes?

[Hai2yooo]

Actually I have a lot of pride in my guild. We place top 10 every war n that's sufficient to me. I have no veiled purpose with this post. I really would just wanna see if gems r equal who would win. N if it's capped, "staying awake n having no life" wouldn't be an issue. U r capped so staying awake while u have no gems to play doesn't effect anything. Free energy? Stay awake for that? Think it wouldn't make a major dent in war points. But I do agree it's a never ending debate but surely an interesting topic nonetheless.

Eliminate stripping and capped war in my eyes is the closest "solution" to seeing who can separate themselves from the rest. We all know rr has mass amount of firepower (gems). If we limit that, it would be interesting to see adaptation not only by them but every other guild too

Js one war.... Lol

[busteroaf]

Actually I have a lot of pride in my guild. We place top 10 every war n that's sufficient to me. I have no veiled purpose with this post. I really would just wanna see if gems r equal who would win. N if it's capped, "staying awake n having no life" wouldn't be an issue. U r capped so staying awake while u have no gems to play doesn't effect anything. Free energy? Stay awake for that? Think it wouldn't make a major dent in war points. But I do agree it's a never ending debate but surely an interesting topic nonetheless.

Eliminate stripping and capped war in my eyes is the closest "solution" to seeing who can separate themselves from the rest. We all know rr has mass amount of firepower (gems). If we limit that, it would be interesting to see adaptation not only by them but every other guild too

Js one war.... Lol

Depending on the cap... free energy would make or break a war.

[firefly333]

I'm not sure if u have played long enough but there r minor strategic moves guilds can make n individual players can make within gw to change outcomes of a war. Seasoned vets know so I won't explain it further.



hahhahahahahaha. DK is the #1 guild on Android. Did you look at his signature??? I think its safe to assume if he is in DK he is seasoned and should be talked to as if not a noob.

:o:p:rolleyes:;)

[Hai2yooo]

Depending on the cap... free energy would make or break a war.

agreed.js the way he was phrasing it seem like he was insinuating staying awake n gemming constantly

[Hai2yooo]

hahhahahahahaha. DK is the #1 guild on Android. Did you look at his signature??? I think its safe to assume if he is in DK he is seasoned and should be talked to as if not a noob.

:o:p:rolleyes:;)

im ios so i know nothing about android guilds/players. it wasnt an undermining question. it was simply a question.

[Zyntree]

I think this would be fun. I would really like to see the graphs from something like this. Do I think it would ever happen... nope :(. ah well

[NR Gnomig]

More than likely, all we could do as players, is simply set the cap ourselves..

In other words, no-one spends over a certain limit...

But two problems...angering the Gree god's by minimizing their wallets,
and getting roughly, 400 players to agree to it.

In the mean time, ill go back to believing in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

See you guys when I catch the leprechaun ;)

[Hai2yooo]

yea would be interesting to see...but longshot fơr sure lol

[Hai2yooo]

More than likely, all we could do as players, is simply set the cap ourselves..

In other words, no-one spends over a certain limit...

But two problems...angering the Gree god's by minimizing their wallets,
and getting roughly, 400 players to agree to it.

In the mean time, ill go back to believing in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

See you guys when I catch the leprechaun ;)

ur cap could be 1k gems. mine could be 10 gems lol. defeats the whole purpose of gem cap war. again its a theory that would be cool to see but small chance

[NR Gnomig]

that sounds perfect, ill keep 1000, you do 10...hopefully we match up in war ;)

[toogoodformyowngood]

1. Point of gem cap war means u can't gem 24/7. That alone requires tactic. When to attack. Who to attack. U r LIMITED gems so each one counts substantially more in value compared to a limitless gem war. U hit ur limited gems "24/7" n r depleted day 1. Then u r forced to sit back n watch. Timing. That along is ONE strat.

2. RR has lost straight up before. To cents I'm 100% sure. I think they have lost to ut also. Not 100% sure tho. I'm pointing this out because u r trying to make arguemeant that they aren't beatable. Sure it's tough but it can be done. U r also forgetting outside factors. Member activity. One guild can have more on at one time than another n lose by shear number game.

3. U talk about rr can do same with switching armor. That's irrelevant. This happens all the time rr or not. U don't always perfectly match up element wise with someone so u switch n vise versa. Don't get ur point at all with that lol

4. Yes go on. This thread is about a gem cap war. N ur still talkin bout beating them with gems.

5. Again... ONE gem cap war replacing blitz would only help gree. Even you kno this so don't come back with that tired argument of "it's a business". That's the type of argument people use when they don't know how else to rebuttal. I'm saying ONE WAR. Not so it every freakin war. ONE WAR isn't gonna make them go "out of business".

Out of curiously. Which guild r u from?

Lol, ok fine. It would be interesting to see it if it ever happens but like what you said it's a long shot. And knowing GREE sadly, it will never happen (we just have another 4 days GW from Mon - Thurs). It's almost like GREE saying, no we (GREE) don't want the extra money you (players) are throwing at our faces.

And with guilds beating RR in the past. Of course it's possible to beat them in 1/2 battles out of 10/20 battles, but if you talk about averages you'll probably lose out. The whole Rr could be sleeping with a full guild fighting against them. Guilds can lose battles and still win wars :)

Even in Android, DK had like a 50+ wins / 1 loss in one GW (soulshard), but it doesn't matter if u lose 1/2 wars if you are way ahead in the leader board already and maybe 3/4 of the guild was sleeping. So why bother wasting gems when you can't get the win bonus?

And honestly like what template from Rr says quote.

"Realistically speaking, with a cap on gem spending, it means that guys with gear that isn't as good will pretty much rule themselves out of the top places. Will scouting be more important? Sure but the moment you have a guild that is dedicated and armor swaps constantly, say goodbye to your precious limited gems because you will likely rack up more losses than wins. Have fun explaining to your commanders that they are going to be doing really little in the war , especially against the top guilds with better gear and bonuses."

If Rr adopts changing armors etc, all else equal. You'll be raking up losses. So it may not be all about staying up 24/7 spending your free energy. Which makes scouting and calling out targets a lot less effective than intended. And the other thing would be the win bonus. IF guild #2 fights Rr and loses 2/3 times the war could be over. Imagine Rr vs DPA in a limited gem scenario, and DPA loses 2/3 times and both guilds rake up abt 1 million points in the battle. Rr will be pretty far ahead after a few of these battles due to the win bonus. Hypothetically speaking, that's why I mentioned, it will be more plausible to be able to defeat Rr in an unlimited gem scenario as compared to a limited gem scenario.

Anyways, I actually support your proposition that having a caped gem guild war would be cool/interesting, but just saying that it ain't happening.

I'm not sure what's the history, but I do most guilds in IOS even fight back against Rr, unless they are no.2 DPA/Untouch etc?

[Hai2yooo]

win-loss never really matters tbh. i think there was a guild snl who had almost 2-1 loss ratio. around like 40 wins 20+ losses. they hit 4th place on sheer amount of wars declared n gems spent. crazy if u ask me lol. my point is its all about spending. tie the spending and that'll make players forced to win for that bonus. bonus will be crucial in gem capped war.

and the history with rr... yea ur right most guìlds dont even try. there r some in top 10 that do try and again, thats where the problems lies. 90% of guilds that face rr give up and js dont play allowing them to js rack up points by gemming. cap that gemming...n its a diff ball game. they can only do so much.

here's another interesting hypothetical situation. DK and rr in same war. hmm...

[firefly333]

here's another interesting hypothetical situation. DK and rr in same war. hmm...

DK actually likes RR guys and making friends. RR said it would be nice if we could do a charity war and somehow even out pts between IOS and Android. Would be fun.

Nice guys RR. No sense the two platforms not being friends thru Gree forum bringing us all together.

[toogoodformyowngood]

win-loss never really matters tbh. i think there was a guild snl who had almost 2-1 loss ratio. around like 40 wins 20+ losses. they hit 4th place on sheer amount of wars declared n gems spent. crazy if u ask me lol. my point is its all about spending. tie the spending and that'll make players forced to win for that bonus. bonus will be crucial in gem capped war.

and the history with rr... yea ur right most guìlds dont even try. there r some in top 10 that do try and again, thats where the problems lies. 90% of guilds that face rr give up and js dont play allowing them to js rack up points by gemming. cap that gemming...n its a diff ball game. they can only do so much.

here's another interesting hypothetical situation. DK and rr in same war. hmm...

Would be interesting Dk vs Rr, clash of the titans?

[cafedecoy]

Actually I have a lot of pride in my guild. We place top 10 every war n that's sufficient to me. I have no veiled purpose with this post. I really would just wanna see if gems r equal who would win. N if it's capped, "staying awake n having no life" wouldn't be an issue. U r capped so staying awake while u have no gems to play doesn't effect anything. Free energy? Stay awake for that? Think it wouldn't make a major dent in war points. But I do agree it's a never ending debate but surely an interesting topic nonetheless.

Eliminate stripping and capped war in my eyes is the closest "solution" to seeing who can separate themselves from the rest. We all know rr has mass amount of firepower (gems). If we limit that, it would be interesting to see adaptation not only by them but every other guild too

Js one war.... Lol

Sooooo

I usually have a habit of taking a debate so far before I just let it go, but I'll bite. I might regret this... and I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm attacking your or if I'm being snarky. I just want to correct what I view to be wrong.

It's great to see you say that you have a lot of pride in your guild, because the sentiments that I seem to have caught in between your lines seem to indicate otherwise. BUT hey if you truly believe what you just expressed in your comment, more power to you.. who am I to doubt the certainty in your statement?

That said, your opinions are just wrong. Sorry. It doesn't really matter if you "feel" or "think" that gem capping will only change what you want to change in the game but not other aspects. Right now the guild wars have a certain flow or culture and part of it is because the gems that guild members bring into the game are one of the variables to the war. Once you fix the variable (ie. via gem capping), the game will adjust and the game will change. This is just how things go.

I'll be more specific to help you understand this concept better. Let's say hypothetically that you limit the gem spending to some nominal amount... does 1000 gems sound fair? SO what will happen? First, the recruiters for each guild will want to max out this limit as much as possible, so it's fair to assume that the handful of guilds who are aiming for a top 10 spot will have all of their seats filled with members pledging 1000 gems. I think it won't be too hard to find 400 people or so who are willing to buy 1000 gems. So now the gem is fixed across the board.

Now, the game lasts 72 hours. Have you even thought about how much free energy is generated in those 72 hours? At 25 minutes a pop, and with careful time management, you can earn up to 172 free credits....or about the worth of 43 energy refills.

So you tell all your players.. they are fixed at 1000 gems, or 100 refills, but if they refuse to sleep, they can squeeze in up to 43 refills. So really.. let go of your "feelings" and think logically. Why wouldn't this become the game of people who refuse to sleep?

So let's just say that 1000 gems is too little gems, and now you pick a capping number to some big number so that the free energy won't matter any more... so let's say... 10,000 gems? Well.. not very many people are willing to buy 10,000 gems, so the guilds will contain members with disproportionate amount of gems... NOW the game becomes back to where we are right now where the highest spenders go to the highest reputed guild and guild members not in that top guild (like yourself) laments at the unfairness of the game.

Like I said.. you can strip this game or switch things to no end, and it may still never become what you dream of. And of course, you will not stop suggesting new ideas until you can figure out a way to have some stupid chart show that your guild is #1.. but really... where is this really going?

Finally.. and this is just my personal pet peeve. If you want to say a statement and present it like it is a fact, then be prepared to back it up. Facts are not facts because you "feel" like it. They are facts because you are able to support 'em with evidence.

[template]

Cafe's awesomeness

Dayum, now that's how a reply is crafted!

[toogoodformyowngood]

Dayum, now that's how a reply is crafted!

Lol, pawned? Don't mess with the cafe?

I didn't know free refills meant so much in a limited gem scenario (i.e: 43 refills over 100 refills?) if you play 24/7 and dont sleep?

And if you capped gem spending at a very low rate it could be possible that another guild wins, if most of their members are on 24/7 (the no sleeping guild).

But the other consideration would be the win lose on the guilds. I'm not sure what is the win lose ratio of guilds going up against Rr and the percentage of wins against Rr.

lol, so much hypothetical talking here.

Anyways logically speaking. GREE would only listen if maybe Rr or DPA agrees or is supportive of the initiative and I don't think Rr will favor it since it puts them at perhaps a slight disadvantage. And as long as the major top 5 guilds don't support it, it will never run.

The sad truth, the one who pays the bills calls the shot.

[Hai2yooo]

im not offended at all by what you said but it's still all hypothetical even in your scenario. so you don't have facts either. ideally not everyone is goin to stay awake for 3-4 days. theres still many variables that contain "ifs." if your specific argument... the variable would be who sleeps and who doesnt. its all assumption just like me.

i never meant this as the all end to a solution or said i am 100% correct nor have said "i want our guild to be #1. thats a given. if you are playing a game you want to be #1 period. am i satisfied with top 10? of course. but it wouldn't be a wise assumption to think someone would NOT want #1. everyone does.

all im saying is it would be interesting to see this war be implemented. maybe i shouldve titled it to "interesting war" my bad lol.

again its hypothetical. theres no right or wrong answer. im always open for a debate on any topic.

[Stooboot]

first get rid of stripping somehow and have a cap on gems just for ONE war plz GREE.

Yeaaaaa that doesent really prove anything any same star armor can be beaten by another depending on element so the only real way 2 see who the "best" is, is to see who spends the most money n clearly thats dk

[Synovia]

Yeaaaaa that doesent really prove anything any same star armor can be beaten by another depending on element

Right, so who would win would be the guild that is most active, and does the best job of swapping out armors to take advadvantage of elemental combos.... which is exactly what people want.

[Hai2yooo]

i guess its all subjective. the word "best" to someone can mean, whoever spends more. to another, whoever can sustain war with equal firepower changing armor, when to declare, who to hit, when to hit hard, etc. all subjective. i respect everyones opinions and i think open discussion as such isnt a bad thing.

and synovia's statement is basically what this thread is about.

[Hai2yooo]

n yes cafe i do realize that changes the game. but its pretty much common sense. if a guild had 1 million gems and another had 500,000 gems, high chance is that the one with 1 mil wins. where as with armor, + stats r higher but still beatable. gem count isnt beatable unless u buy more gems than the other. so basically only way to be "best" is to spend more than the other. rr spent more than dpa last war, thats it. literally taking any "skill" out of the game this way

just trying to say that an alternative to "who spends more" is a better determination of who is "best". i think most can agree on this

[Eunuchorn]

All the DPA members joining RR had 2-5000 gems left, but only have to give up one at a time to lose 1st. That's why it's hard to go up against a guild like us. Not only have we proved we will do whatever is necessary when it comes to gems, but now we have a title to hold onto. We go hard at all times, no matter what. (Until we have enough of a lead to be able to give battles away). DPA tried to do this but little by little their role calls shrank & ppl started looking out for their own gem count. RR has never had that problem, nor do we believe in role calls.

[busteroaf]

All the DPA members joining RR had 2-5000 gems left, but only have to give up one at a time to lose 1st. That's why it's hard to go up against a guild like us. Not only have we proved we will do whatever is necessary when it comes to gems, but now we have a title to hold onto. We go hard at all times, no matter what. (Until we have enough of a lead to be able to give battles away). DPA tried to do this but little by little their role calls shrank & ppl started looking out for their own gem count. RR has never had that problem, nor do we believe in role calls.

Excuse me. What is a roll call?

[Hai2yooo]

DK actually likes RR guys and making friends. RR said it would be nice if we could do a charity war and somehow even out pts between IOS and Android. Would be fun.

Nice guys RR. No sense the two platforms not being friends thru Gree forum bringing us all together.

Not sure if u think I'm causing drama between the two. Just saying it would be interesting to see war between top guilds of each system

[firefly333]

Not sure if u think I'm causing drama between the two. Just saying it would be interesting to see war between top guilds of each system

lol I was agreeing with you and being nice I thought??

RR seem like nice folks. I guess because of my other post to you telling you who DK was on Android you think I meant more... no ...I agree with you. It would be fun to have a war with RR. Its nice to reach across the chasm between IOS and Android here on this forum. No sarcasm meant by me or double meanings.

[sawoo]

Not sure if u think I'm causing drama between the two. Just saying it would be interesting to see war between top guilds of each system

Agreed, would be interesting to see RR battle #1 guild in droid.

[Tampa]

first get rid of stripping somehow and have a cap on gems just for ONE war plz GREE.

think everyone here wants to see if guilds are as good strategically and as strong without infinite gems. maybe cap ONE gw at 2k gems just so we can really see who is the best guild all around n not the biggest spending guild. this is not a complaint or to whine. i really would just want to see if some guilds are as strong, smart, and strategically intelligent as they appear. would be great to see. im sure a diff top 10 would arise. anyone else agree? thoughts?
I'm sure Darkness Slayers would fly right up to the top!

[Tampa]

Sooooo

I usually have a habit of taking a debate so far before I just let it go, but I'll bite. I might regret this... and I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm attacking your or if I'm being snarky. I just want to correct what I view to be wrong.

It's great to see you say that you have a lot of pride in your guild, because the sentiments that I seem to have caught in between your lines seem to indicate otherwise. BUT hey if you truly believe what you just expressed in your comment, more power to you.. who am I to doubt the certainty in your statement?

That said, your opinions are just wrong. Sorry. It doesn't really matter if you "feel" or "think" that gem capping will only change what you want to change in the game but not other aspects. Right now the guild wars have a certain flow or culture and part of it is because the gems that guild members bring into the game are one of the variables to the war. Once you fix the variable (ie. via gem capping), the game will adjust and the game will change. This is just how things go.

I'll be more specific to help you understand this concept better. Let's say hypothetically that you limit the gem spending to some nominal amount... does 1000 gems sound fair? SO what will happen? First, the recruiters for each guild will want to max out this limit as much as possible, so it's fair to assume that the handful of guilds who are aiming for a top 10 spot will have all of their seats filled with members pledging 1000 gems. I think it won't be too hard to find 400 people or so who are willing to buy 1000 gems. So now the gem is fixed across the board.

Now, the game lasts 72 hours. Have you even thought about how much free energy is generated in those 72 hours? At 25 minutes a pop, and with careful time management, you can earn up to 172 free credits....or about the worth of 43 energy refills.

So you tell all your players.. they are fixed at 1000 gems, or 100 refills, but if they refuse to sleep, they can squeeze in up to 43 refills. So really.. let go of your "feelings" and think logically. Why wouldn't this become the game of people who refuse to sleep?

So let's just say that 1000 gems is too little gems, and now you pick a capping number to some big number so that the free energy won't matter any more... so let's say... 10,000 gems? Well.. not very many people are willing to buy 10,000 gems, so the guilds will contain members with disproportionate amount of gems... NOW the game becomes back to where we are right now where the highest spenders go to the highest reputed guild and guild members not in that top guild (like yourself) laments at the unfairness of the game.

Like I said.. you can strip this game or switch things to no end, and it may still never become what you dream of. And of course, you will not stop suggesting new ideas until you can figure out a way to have some stupid chart show that your guild is #1.. but really... where is this really going?

Finally.. and this is just my personal pet peeve. If you want to say a statement and present it like it is a fact, then be prepared to back it up. Facts are not facts because you "feel" like it. They are facts because you are able to support 'em with evidence.
There is always an exploit to a game.. no matter what game, there is always something that people eventually figure out to help them progress faster than everyone else. People go to hacking, cheating, cash shopping, or whatever else they can figure out to win over everyone else. Some of the original K&D players will remember when the Epic Boss didn't have to be fought but just left in the open screen to get credit... wonder how many people exploited that?
I believe what Hai2yooo was trying to say is that the tops guilds are so heavy in cash that there is no need in trying to exploit or even attempting to run at them. There isn't any sense in going into a gun fight with a slingshot. There will always be the obvious winner.
I'm waiting for DK and RR run dry or be caught with cheaters.. just like in any other game, the top guilds draw drama and usually don't last but a fort night. With that said, Sons of Darkness (Darkness Slayers sub guild) is recruiting active players 70+ that know how to save their gems. :) Apply on the forum! Link is in my signature. ;D

[Hai2yooo]

agree on the money part but not sure bout cheating part lol. money doesnt mean a guild is stronger in my opinion. thats why i gem capped would be a better guager of a "better" guild. again all subjective.

[Aftessed]

A cap would be nice, but would never happen. Gree's a business on top of everything else. Gaming is a huge business and some people would go without eating just to be on top. It's an addiction, not unlike any type of drug. Be the same as asking electronic cigarette (http://www.ecigfiend.com/) or beer companies to put a limit on how much anyone could bur.

It's a nice dream though. My guild will pop off gems, but never be on top, because we don't buy ridiculous amounts of gems. And it's a huge shame there's alot of players out there who don't understand this. They want a top guild, for top prizes, not understanding they need to spend an insane amount of money to be in these guilds. Nice dream though. One I share.
i have a question to the cigarette and bear company that is- what ethics they are maintained. because they have to think about public safety but we see the opposite. they have no headache about this problem.

[ettexor1]

Sooooo

I usually have a habit of taking a debate so far before I just let it go, but I'll bite. I might regret this... and I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm attacking your or if I'm being snarky. I just want to correct what I view to be wrong.

It's great to see you say that you have a lot of pride in your guild, because the sentiments that I seem to have caught in between your lines seem to indicate otherwise. BUT hey if you truly believe what you just expressed in your comment, more power to you.. who am I to doubt the certainty in your statement?

That said, your opinions are just wrong. Sorry. It doesn't really matter if you "feel" or "think" that gem capping will only change what you want to change in the game but not other aspects. Right now the guild wars have a certain flow or culture and part of it is because the gems that guild members bring into the game are one of the variables to the war. Once you fix the variable (ie. via gem capping), the game will adjust and the game will change. This is just how things go.

I'll be more specific to help you understand this concept better. Let's say hypothetically that you limit the gem spending to some nominal amount... does 1000 gems sound fair? SO what will happen? First, the recruiters for each guild will want to max out this limit as much as possible, so it's fair to assume that the handful of guilds who are aiming for a top 10 spot will have all of their seats filled with members pledging 1000 gems. I think it won't be too hard to find 400 people or so who are willing to buy 1000 gems. So now the gem is fixed across the board.

Now, the game lasts 72 hours. Have you even thought about how much free energy is generated in those 72 hours? At 25 minutes a pop, and with careful time management, you can earn up to 172 free credits....or about the worth of 43 energy refills.

So you tell all your players.. they are fixed at 1000 gems, or 100 refills, but if they refuse to sleep, they can squeeze in up to 43 refills. So really.. let go of your "feelings" and think logically. Why wouldn't this become the game of people who refuse to sleep?

So let's just say that 1000 gems is too little gems, and now you pick a capping number to some big number so that the free energy won't matter any more... so let's say... 10,000 gems? Well.. not very many people are willing to buy 10,000 gems, so the guilds will contain members with disproportionate amount of gems... NOW the game becomes back to where we are right now where the highest spenders go to the highest reputed guild and guild members not in that top guild (like yourself) laments at the unfairness of the game.

Like I said.. you can strip this game or switch things to no end, and it may still never become what you dream of. And of course, you will not stop suggesting new ideas until you can figure out a way to have some stupid chart show that your guild is #1.. but really... where is this really going?

Finally.. and this is just my personal pet peeve. If you want to say a statement and present it like it is a fact, then be prepared to back it up. Facts are not facts because you "feel" like it. They are facts because you are able to support 'em with evidence.

Solving the stripping problem is easy, just need to have points based on the level/strength of the armors fought against...

[firefly333]

Solving the stripping problem is easy, just need to have points based on the level/strength of the armors fought against...

Making it like on android no extra points for hitting officers would go a long ways imo.

We have no reason usually to strip because we can pretty much always find a guy to farm and with no incentive to hitting a hc or champ or gm, we dont have the same incentive to strip on android.

RR says the only incentive to still strip would be it is still faster to hit a stripped down guy. So still a little incentive, but not like it is now.

[Reversal]

So the conclusion of this debate basically is: There are a ton of ways to discuss which guild is the best guild.
However, this actually is a personal opinion. Some people will say that the amount of epics count, others will say Guild War rank will count and others will say respect counts.

In cases like this I like to grab a dictionary and look at the definition of a "Game" that I find most appealing.
For me it is: "an activity that one engages in for amusement."
So in all honesty I feel that the best guild would be a guild in which all members feel comfortable, have fun and plainly enjoy themselves and you cannot really have rankings for that, I don't know how other guilds are but I surely feel that my guild is definitely the best guild out there when you count that in! ;)

[excidia]

Take away the gem spending and no guild is unbeatable. The only reason why they win every guild war is because the sheer amount of gems they use. Even so, all those epics not everyone can level. Sure the no lifers will have them leveled. Thank goodness you can't straight up gem your armor to max lvl.

[sxespanky]

its finally been resolved!!! i can give you the winner of every guild war by this simple formula! add everyones attack and def up and then compare it to every one else. who cares? i could say i worked my butt off for this last war, but i gemmed maybe 10-12 times, and i had other members who had 12-15k points every fight. EVEN IF you gem to win, you can easily just find that one member of the guild who has just awful armor, and spam the hell out of him and get a butt ton o points. which is where i thin kthey need an update.

every fight that a member takes, take away 1% of points earned on him or her. BAM! makes it slightly more fair?

[busteroaf]

its finally been resolved!!! i can give you the winner of every guild war by this simple formula! add everyones attack and def up and then compare it to every one else. who cares? i could say i worked my butt off for this last war, but i gemmed maybe 10-12 times, and i had other members who had 12-15k points every fight. EVEN IF you gem to win, you can easily just find that one member of the guild who has just awful armor, and spam the hell out of him and get a butt ton o points. which is where i thin kthey need an update.

every fight that a member takes, take away 1% of points earned on him or her. BAM! makes it slightly more fair?

Diminishing rewards for multiple attacks on the same person? Omg, that is genius. First person to ever think of it, in any game. You'd need to make it higher than 1%, maybe more like 20% needs to be a much steeper loss to prevent people from farming them over and over.

/yawn Sorry. Its not a new idea. Check back in the forums a few months. Its been mentioned, multiple times before. But thanks for bringing it back up again. Its something.

The issue with guild war is that you shouldn't have to find that one easy person to farm. If I can beat the GM, I feel that I SHOULD get a reward for beating the highest ranked person in the guild I'm facing. Personally, while it might take the fun out of Android, I wouldn't want to have a war there without a bonus to killing the GM/GS/GC/HC. Otherwise, what role do they serve other than making those individual people stronger? They now have the bonuses over the rest of the guild? Am I wrong in saying your biggest gem spenders go to those positions to take advantage of the stat boost so they can more effectively kill the opposing guilds members? I don't think so.

What role does the GS, or GC serve, if there is no benefit from attacking them, outside of the initial GS protection? This is what needs to change. Make it more necessary. There needs to be a more strategic approach, and benefit for attacking these people. Finding the easiest person to farm seems a much more boring way to win than being able to say you beat the GM. And I'm not talking about being stripped either. Farming the lowest commander is just as lame as asking for a strip. There is still no strategy. It takes away the fun of the game regardless of how you do it. You beat a weak person. Good for you.

Here are a couple ideas:

Enemy point reduction on victory.
I face someone. I beat them. I gain my victory points, AND they then lose say... 25% of whatever my victory points were, from their points. I gain 300, they lose 75. That way, you get a double benefit from attacking ACTIVE people, and makes for a more legit war. I think you'd have a hell of a more interesting battle than a "who can farm the inactive guy more". Again, a reward for actually fighting active people. If you see the GC has the most points, would you take the chance to cut down his points and attack him? If you have the balls you should.

Add Skills to the positions
Everyone has a skiill bar. Every attack gives your skill bar a small boost. After the bar is filled, you can trigger your skill.

Sentinel/Def Leaders can trigger a 10 min boost that gives +X% to def for all guild members.
Champ/Att Leaders can trigger a 10 min boost that gives +Y% to att for all guild members.
GM can trigger a 10 min boost that gives a boost to att and def.
HC's get... something. +0.5X% boost for 5 minutes... something.
Commanders can give a small energy refill to another member, giving them an extra attack.

This way, there is a little more strategy, and will require a bit more planning.

For example: Your GS has great armor, but will be inactive for most of the war. Normally that is okay, he can usually soak up a few hits before he's down. In this case though, you miss out on the benefit of his skill since he's inactive, adding a def boost for the entire guild. Would you rather have someone with slightly lesser armors in their place, knowing they will be active enough during the wars to take advantage of their skill boost? This introduces a lot more strategy and planning. And with those extra boosts, you'd need the GC to be active too, to counter the opponents and vice versa.

[Sarah 101]

To defeat the best ? Just understand the "best"without the best team "can't lose"
Lose your ego and selfishness then think " about how to defeat the "best"

[sxespanky]

i started reading your reply busteroof, but then decided your a complete **** and stopped. if 20% was is, then you wouldnt make any points off a character after 5 attacks, and taking someone like a huge guild with a lot of gems, what will they do after they hit every character 5 times? your an idiot and get your kicks by shutting ppl down. im sorry i dont search the forums every day and SEE IF MY IDEAS ORIGINAL or not. i frankly dont care.

[sxespanky]

Plus, if you got banned once, im sure there was a reason. i wouldnt showboat around that fact i got banned. just saying.

[busteroaf]

i started reading your reply busteroof, but then decided your a complete **** and stopped. if 20% was is, then you wouldnt make any points off a character after 5 attacks, and taking someone like a huge guild with a lot of gems, what will they do after they hit every character 5 times? your an idiot and get your kicks by shutting ppl down. im sorry i dont search the forums every day and SEE IF MY IDEAS ORIGINAL or not. i frankly dont care.

I'm glad you feel that way. I don't search them either or stay on them 24/7. I pop in from time to time when I have free time. I've just been around a lot longer and notice things. And if you noticed, all I said was it wasn't original. I said thanks for bringing it up again. I thanked you. Chill out man.

The reason I replied was concerning where you said:


EVEN IF you gem to win, you can easily just find that one member of the guild who has just awful armor, and spam the hell out of him and get a butt ton o points. which is where i thin kthey need an update.

There wasn't the extra point of "you have to be fair to the big guilds", and that is why I answered as such.

If you want to truly stop people from farming one person or another, which is what you considered where they needed the "update" you have to have an effective stop to it. A 1% drop? If you get a flat 100 points per person, and I farm someone 10 times with only a 1% drop each time, after those 10 fights, I still end up with 955 points. I've only lost 4.5% of my points. That isn't much of a deterrent. If they drop it 10%... I could win 550 points. I'm losing 45% of my points. Much bigger. If I make it 20%, you're only getting 5 kills max, and 300 points before it makes you move to someone else.

I don't know about you, but 20% drop sure does sound like a deterrent if you ask me.

Yes, for the big guilds and those who are used to fighting non-stop, spamming gems constantly, yes, it would be a change, and they wouldn't make their money off them. Or could they? Yes. Institute the "entire roster clear" that has been mentioned on here multiple times, and bam. You can farm people again. Once you beat the entire guild, and if you're strong enough to be considered "the best" you should be able to... you can rinse and repeat as needed.

As to my name, its Busteroaf. There is an A in there after the O. Please try to spell my name correctly when referencing me being a ****. And me being banned? Never happened. The image you see is an ode to one of my favorite people in the forum that got banned, Mark.

[sxespanky]

if it was in consideration to each individual, then id say 20% is a fine number. if it pertains to the guild as a hole, and each person defeats and enemy, keep a tick and do a % off. 20 maybe is too high for an entire guilds perspective, and 10-5% may be better, but i see people just spam the sentinel just as easy, and get 400+ points easy each hit. a clearing would be a pretty decent idea as well. either way, as a business as a whole, you don't mess with good money figures. and im sure that would hurt their actual income - big money spenders - these are the people that gree will listen to before they listen to those who hit the offer page before the wallet. if they want to win, they will win, as long as they have a C/C handy.

[Eunuchorn]

Take away the gem spending and no guild is unbeatable. The only reason why they win every guild war is because the sheer amount of gems they use. Even so, all those epics not everyone can level. Sure the no lifers will have them leveled. Thank goodness you can't straight up gem your armor to max lvl.

Take a look at how many battles RR fights vs every other guild. There would be no contender if gems were not allowed.

[Eunuchorn]

i started reading your reply busteroof, but then decided your a complete **** and stopped. if 20% was is, then you wouldnt make any points off a character after 5 attacks, and taking someone like a huge guild with a lot of gems, what will they do after they hit every character 5 times? your an idiot and get your kicks by shutting ppl down. im sorry i dont search the forums every day and SEE IF MY IDEAS ORIGINAL or not. i frankly dont care.

sxespanky: 0, stupid: 1

[Eunuchorn]

Plus, if you got banned once, im sure there was a reason. i wouldnt showboat around that fact i got banned. just saying.

sxespanky: 0, stupid: 2
Good thing this isn't baseball

[Dianish]

i started reading your reply busteroof, but then decided your a complete **** and stopped. if 20% was is, then you wouldnt make any points off a character after 5 attacks, and taking someone like a huge guild with a lot of gems, what will they do after they hit every character 5 times? your an idiot and get your kicks by shutting ppl down. im sorry i dont search the forums every day and SEE IF MY IDEAS ORIGINAL or not. i frankly dont care.


I trust Busteroaf... At least hi's words are worth reading. He has contructive input and ideas. He has been around for a long time. He is wiser than most on the forums - Even when sounding pissed. He say things straight out, no sugar coating. If you get offended by him and misinterpret him, then he is not the issue - You are.

Maybe you get pissed for him being smarter than you are? :) Its okay, mate. No one blame you. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. To bad this wasnt one of you'r strenghts.

The 20% part is a great idea. This prevents guilds to farm 1 specific player - Which i think is completely fair. Again: Buseroaf win this one. You lose.

I dont think you should start argueing with him, if you do. Good luck. Im gonna make some popcorn.. brb.

Edit: TL;DR and to sum it up. Busteroaf is always right.

[toogoodformyowngood]

I trust Busteroaf... At least hi's words are worth reading. He has contructive input and ideas. He has been around for a long time. He is wiser than most on the forums - Even when sounding pissed. He say things straight out, no sugar coating. If you get offended by him and misinterpret him, then he is not the issue - You are.

Maybe you get pissed for him being smarter than you are? :) Its okay, mate. No one blame you. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. To bad this wasnt one of you'r strenghts.

The 20% part is a great idea. This prevents guilds to farm 1 specific player - Which i think is completely fair. Again: Buseroaf win this one. You lose.

I dont think you should start argueing with him, if you do. Good luck. Im gonna make some popcorn.. brb.

Edit: TL;DR and to sum it up. Busteroaf is always right.

Busteroaf is always right, such lies!

Nobody is always right.

[sxespanky]

how is he right? i disagreed with hos statement that said if an entire guild was participating in a battle, that the guild as a whole - when attacking can hit one character only 5 times, would be an awful way to conduct business. if it were 5 times per person, is a different story. i remember why i hate even talking on a forum. your all kinda asses. if you could take your negative comments and not even say them, then we'd all be in a better place. but alas, it is the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSb0sY97iXI

[toogoodformyowngood]

how is he right? i disagreed with hos statement that said if an entire guild was participating in a battle, that the guild as a whole - when attacking can hit one character only 5 times, would be an awful way to conduct business. if it were 5 times per person, is a different story. i remember why i hate even talking on a forum. your all kinda asses. if you could take your negative comments and not even say them, then we'd all be in a better place. but alas, it is the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSb0sY97iXI

3 - 0 ......

[toogoodformyowngood]

2 sides of the same coin?

[Reversal]

Diminishing rewards for multiple attacks on the same person? Omg, that is genius. First person to ever think of it, in any game. You'd need to make it higher than 1%, maybe more like 20% needs to be a much steeper loss to prevent people from farming them over and over.

/yawn Sorry. Its not a new idea. Check back in the forums a few months. Its been mentioned, multiple times before. But thanks for bringing it back up again. Its something.

The issue with guild war is that you shouldn't have to find that one easy person to farm. If I can beat the GM, I feel that I SHOULD get a reward for beating the highest ranked person in the guild I'm facing. Personally, while it might take the fun out of Android, I wouldn't want to have a war there without a bonus to killing the GM/GS/GC/HC. Otherwise, what role do they serve other than making those individual people stronger? They now have the bonuses over the rest of the guild? Am I wrong in saying your biggest gem spenders go to those positions to take advantage of the stat boost so they can more effectively kill the opposing guilds members? I don't think so.

What role does the GS, or GC serve, if there is no benefit from attacking them, outside of the initial GS protection? This is what needs to change. Make it more necessary. There needs to be a more strategic approach, and benefit for attacking these people. Finding the easiest person to farm seems a much more boring way to win than being able to say you beat the GM. And I'm not talking about being stripped either. Farming the lowest commander is just as lame as asking for a strip. There is still no strategy. It takes away the fun of the game regardless of how you do it. You beat a weak person. Good for you.

Here are a couple ideas:

Enemy point reduction on victory.
I face someone. I beat them. I gain my victory points, AND they then lose say... 25% of whatever my victory points were, from their points. I gain 300, they lose 75. That way, you get a double benefit from attacking ACTIVE people, and makes for a more legit war. I think you'd have a hell of a more interesting battle than a "who can farm the inactive guy more". Again, a reward for actually fighting active people. If you see the GC has the most points, would you take the chance to cut down his points and attack him? If you have the balls you should.

Add Skills to the positions
Everyone has a skiill bar. Every attack gives your skill bar a small boost. After the bar is filled, you can trigger your skill.

Sentinel/Def Leaders can trigger a 10 min boost that gives +X% to def for all guild members.
Champ/Att Leaders can trigger a 10 min boost that gives +Y% to att for all guild members.
GM can trigger a 10 min boost that gives a boost to att and def.
HC's get... something. +0.5X% boost for 5 minutes... something.
Commanders can give a small energy refill to another member, giving them an extra attack.

This way, there is a little more strategy, and will require a bit more planning.

For example: Your GS has great armor, but will be inactive for most of the war. Normally that is okay, he can usually soak up a few hits before he's down. In this case though, you miss out on the benefit of his skill since he's inactive, adding a def boost for the entire guild. Would you rather have someone with slightly lesser armors in their place, knowing they will be active enough during the wars to take advantage of their skill boost? This introduces a lot more strategy and planning. And with those extra boosts, you'd need the GC to be active too, to counter the opponents and vice versa.

Hey Busteroaf, I really like your idea's since they do make the game more interesting.
I personally think it could potentially take away the casual aspect that the game has but it would definitely be beneficial to people who check on the game very frequently.
I would actually like to add another idea to this, I feel that since we are on topic anyway I might as well bring more food to the table.

Let us assume that your idea's are taken within the game and that there is a bonus for killing GS/GC/HC/GM's:

Head Quarter Buildings
Now let me introduce the concept having the ability to convert Guild Experience into Building Material Points on a 1:1 base. (BMP for short) Currently nobody would actually bother at all with quests after Level 75 anymore right? I think that with BMP's this will definitely change this.
BMP should ONLY be obtainable through Guild Quests, no other way, not through gems, not through gold.
I feel that activity should also give some BMP as well, I'm sure you've seen it on other games: Check in the game like let's say every 3-4 hours and get a small reward for this.
Anyone in the Guild from High Commander and above should have the ability to upgrade a building in the HQ in exchange for BMP.

A few examples and of course upgradable:

Head Quarter:
Level 1, Requires 15000 BMP.
Effect: Gives everyone in the guild 1% bonus to ATT/DEF.

Moat:
Level 1, Requires 7500 BMP to build.
Effect: 25% Less points when Castle Gate isn't destroyed, 10% DEF bonus to Sentinel and Guardian.

Field of Guardians:
Level 1, Requires 5000 BMP to build.
Effect: 10% More DEF to Guardians, 2% Less points when Guardian is still alive.

Guild Banner:
Level 1, Requires 3000 BMP to build.
Effect: 2 More points when winning a Guild Battle.

Statue of Victory:
Level 1, Requires 10000 BMP to build.
Effect: 10% chance for Area Boss to drop a additional crafting material.

Monastary:
Level 1, Requires 2500 BMP to build.
Effect: Restore health 10% faster.

I could go on forever really...

Medal Exchange
Players should get an option to exchange their MVP and regular Guild Quest badges to benefits.
However, they will remain the visual MVP/Regular badges to show their accomplishment.

- MVP benefits should include the ability to enhance their armor even further PERMANENTLY. (Thus giving a boost to more active players who bother completing quests)
- Regular benefits should give you the ability to gain more attack/defense for a short amount of time. You guys figure it out, I'm just throwing the concept on the table.

Also before you get into it, you should LOSE your benefits once you leave the guild or get kicked. However, if you rejoin you will have your MVP/Regular badges again right? So this means that you should get your stats back. (The system will save this)
If you join a new guild you'll have to start from scratch again though but you can obtain new regular benefits.

I'm aware that Gree will probably never do any of this, but it would be nice if they would.

[DaveO]

Great idea! I have a better one. How about we make Olympic runners only wear one shoe so that we can see who has the best stride and tactical foot placement. The possibilities are endless!

[Dianish]

how is he right? i disagreed with hos statement that said if an entire guild was participating in a battle, that the guild as a whole - when attacking can hit one character only 5 times, would be an awful way to conduct business. if it were 5 times per person, is a different story. i remember why i hate even talking on a forum. your all kinda asses. if you could take your negative comments and not even say them, then we'd all be in a better place. but alas, it is the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSb0sY97iXI

We just talk. We dont start calling others asses and d*cks like you did. We just say things as they are. If you get offended i bet you misintepret or put in an flippant tone when you read it and thats the reason for you reactions. Its no excuse though. Also, my comment wasnt negative - Again, thats how you make it sound when you read it. If you were in a good mood i bet you would read it differently :) Its okay, mate. No hard feelings.

Busteroaf can be friendly. But it depends on the arguement you throw at him. Nothing wrong with your statement like there is nothing wrong with mine. I just support Busteroaf 's statement and opinion.

Please just let it go. We cant all agree on the same thing. Wuptidoo.. /FredFlintstoneJumpKick

On topic: I dont see a way of determing who's the best guild without removing everything thats P2P. A war between equal guilds so it all comes down to strategies and timing. Not your wallet. But its still not enough cause latency ect can ruin it all. Its a tough nut to crack.

[Sarah 101]

@espanky
Not like what you think , but try sometime to be silent when you angry so you can think better ..
Alone you can't defeat anyone you need people's work as team don't mind to spend 7000 gems for the guild name,peoples don't hate or feel jealous and they have one goal is to win ..find that team then think about how to defeat the best ..
Here there is 2 type of players "leeches and spender"
leeches , already destroy the fun and joy on this game
No one really like them cus you do most of the work and they give you stupid excuses "ask "anyone on top 10-25 he can give you list of the same excuses you will see it all the time ..
it's very hard to not see people's don't have "fair problems" very hard trust me you need doctor to tell you how it is hard so you can believe me "you already think they make fun of you so you can't see the true " clam and read again it's ok to make mistakes to lose arguing but the real stupid is to consider everything is personal "you are not stupid no one is stupid " just a new player my best advice is to ignore this thread ..and time can solve everything ^_^

[Sarah 101]

^^ no offense free players but we are talking about rank 1 ;)

[Eunuchorn]

Take a look at how many battles RR fights vs every other guild. There would be no contender if gems were not allowed.

This got lost in the clutter.

Remove P2W & ppl will be even more up in arms after RR takes 1st. There's no pleasing entitled crybabies.

[Sarah 101]

Even the Fate Can be changed ^_*anyway the point you need good team !" Alone "you can't win
In ios rainbow has system for that
In android I don't know

[shukai84]

oh why not just fixed the amrs that your knights wear? So nobody can switch amrs? whahahahahaha super glue to them

[Hai2yooo]

oh why not just fixed the amrs that your knights wear? So nobody can switch amrs? whahahahahaha super glue to them

not sure if serious lol. but if serious, then we wouldnt be able to change setups to win against different lineups.

[EljayK]

I'll reiterate. The only way to force people not to strip is to give points in war based on the armors you defeat.

Bronze - 1 point
silver - 5 points
gold - 10 points
** - 15 points
*** is 25 points
**** is 50
5* is 100.

Applies to each individual knight. Then add rank bonus. Beating a trip epic GM is 450 points. Beating a stripped GM with a basic is 1 point. Why the random points in the first place? this way, even if you lose the fight, if you beat their first two knights, you still get 200 points. Add in a win bonus too. IDK. Make it by armor, not by RNG

Plus, if you aren't online, strip your gear to something terrible. Can't be farmed as easily. Even if the GM strips so the opponent CAN'T get points, (the opposite of now), that opponent just has to find someone they can take. A high ranking commander with crappy gear will be less valuable than a commander wearing epics. Make people actually scout targets again. Make it about communication again.

Make it a game. Not an auction.

[JStarbux]

Finally got done reading the 90% of garbage in this post before I can express my opinion without getting disregarded for not having a collective understanding of everything that has been said.

1) Fixing GM stripping is easy and already mentioned. Roster Clear before attacking same individual again. Perhaps you could add other variations like commanders 3 times, officers 2, and the G's once. Then rinse and repeat. No GM would be willing to give up their prized "undefeated" status. This also adds a pride element to the game based on people seeing if they have been beaten yet. Makes armor switching more tactical as well.

2) @CafeDecoy - your hypothetical story of a "level playing field" is a complete myth for the following reasons:
- winning verse losing battles based on timing, who you face, frenzy, would differentiate the field.
- other factors of random aspects of the game include misses, critical hits, and random points so there is no guarantee is everyone attacks the same amount.
- who you attack, what armors, and their sequence also decide whether or not points are awarded to that "battle" which as you stated is a fixed number.
- incentivizing officers for points doesn't mean everyone in your guild can beat them but certainly adds risk to the war and with risk comes reward and therefore even further differentiation.
- being organized in a fight to win: 6 free hits (assuming no gem spending), how early sentinel is broken, guardians of varying levels/elements are even more differentiation.
- when you use special attacks during a fight can even determine an outcome; its not always best to use it when it's available and there is still human error to this thus causing yet again even more differentiation

Now your hypothetical "even playing" field scenario doesn't look as well thought out anymore does it

3) I support whoever stated strategy can change the outcome of a war. I don't think anyone would argue that with a gem cap across the 3 day war, spending everything in day 1 would likely mean not finishing well. Spending at the right time, how often you declare, waiting to trigger frenzy instead of just farming constantly are only a few minor components to a large list of strategies

Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority). Eventually free players will leave if there are no incentives for them to stay and when the majority of players leave, KnD dies and then the P2W players leave and GREE loses money. So the next time you criticize someone who has a helpful idea that actually is appealing to the MAJORITY (not the 1%) I think you should give him a break.

KnD like other games thankfully has some elements that can be mastered without spending like level 60 boss, fusing epics, etc but I'm starting to peak in terms of interest right now. Never going to spend to make top 10 so why not create additional reasons for players like me to stick around. The Arena added a helpful balance of free rewards and rewards at the top for P2W.

Other Ideas:
1) Pre-war chest needs to be refined into a new type of armor that gives bonus points if worn in battle and you win. Armor would come out a few days before war giving time to max. Not only would this add strategy to defend against this armor but still provides GREE a way to make money. Similar to a nemesis armor but more of a 2x Point armor for just that war.
2) Gem cap on war needs to be refined to this. Cap number of refills per player per battle. This fixes so many more things than a gem cap and wouldn't leave players dry after day 1. Then you actually have to perform well as a whole guild and still use strategy while not preventing GREE from making money. Here you will see a teetering balance in the top 100 guilds keeping the lower spenders interested longer term.

I could go on but I've said too much where several of you won't even read this post. I'm looking at bully's to hit me with their best shot back. So lets see what you got.

[busteroaf]

Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority). Eventually free players will leave if there are no incentives for them to stay and when the majority of players leave, KnD dies and then the P2W players leave and GREE loses money. So the next time you criticize someone who has a helpful idea that actually is appealing to the MAJORITY (not the 1%) I think you should give him a break.


My biggest beef:
Players that pay make up less than 1-2%? If that is true, then there are already serious issues considering many of the paying players are quitting. And no matter how big a % they are, they're STILL the ones who's gem purchases allow the game to be free for everyone else. I think while what is good for the majority is often valid, actually changing things for those that pay the wages needs to happen as well.

For example:
Say there are 100k people playing. If the lowest 1% leaves, will they even be missed? If they are non-gem buyers/spenders, thus creating no revenue for Gree, what happens? Oh noes, less people to fight against. The whales can still have their fights and no one would miss guilds 7000 and down from the wars, or whatever # the lowest 1k players makes up. I see rewards go all the way to 8000, and we all know there are guilds with 1 or 2 people in them, so... whatever.. Would they be missed? Would the general population of KnD even notice?

Now flip that, and the top 1%, or typically the top 25 guilds from each guild war were to leave all at once, never to return. Gree's piggy bank would take a much bigger hit considering you just took the top 1000 spenders (Assuming 25 guilds, with 40 players each) away. Yes, there are still spenders in lower guilds, but will they instantly start providing the income that those that are now gone once did?

Which scenario do you think will lead to the game shutting down quicker? Do you see why it is necessary to still cater to the top 1% even though they aren't the majority? It is much easier to replace free players than it is spenders.


As far as the War bonus armor: Good idea. But there are some drawbacks. That means they would need to double the amount of armors they are putting out each war, and would need to be worthwhile to make people want to drop enough gems to get it and level it that quick. After the war, you go back to just having another epic, or high powered legendary. Also, if it is say... Mono Spirit, and you use it, and you're up against someone with Sky Maj, Mael, and Santa, you're going to have a hard time cashing in that boost. If you know you can't use the boost every time, you aren't going to find a value in it. That is the tough spot in having armors like that. Nemesis armors work because they DO counter a boss. A non-changing boss. You will always have an advantage against the EB wearing a Nemesis. When you are facing every-changing setups against other players, you won't always have that.

[JStarbux]

So glad you took the bait because I love a good discussion.

I think you need to take your 1% hat off. You are already pot committed and not going anywhere lol. The people spending money on a game aren't leaving just because they can't spend for one war out of the month. What kind of satisfaction would they get with the thousands they spent already?

If there is nobody to show off to then really there is no incentive to show off right? GREE has had some failed games in the past like Driland where the top got too top heavy and the game became too dissatisfactory for new players. The "middle" falls out in lost hope and lost incentive to continue playing.

Also, fair warning to you, there are only so many stars and armor combinations that exist before they run out of options.

Going to post an interesting war trend on Android that you may not be seeing on the iOS side but it represents a microcosm of the games progress last 3 months. 5393

At some point, people realize that there is a lost cause and give up. If you provide incentives beyond Guild War being ruled by gem spending, you keep the "middle" which makes up a lot more than what is spent by the top 1% These are the people buying tons of chests to try and keep up, who fall for the chest deals for old armors, the people who are the only spender in their guild to make top 25. The iPhone group are sheltered a bit by volume but the same type of people are playing in Android.

You can see that GREE is increasing the frequency of guild wars already which isn't a good sign for the game.

GREE needs people like the OP to stretch and create ideas. Catering to the top 1% only leads to the game's demise because again, without the right player mix, it will not survive.

Looking forward to your response!

[toogoodformyowngood]

So glad you took the bait because I love a good discussion.

I think you need to take your 1% hat off. You are already pot committed and not going anywhere lol. The people spending money on a game aren't leaving just because they can't spend for one war out of the month. What kind of satisfaction would they get with the thousands they spent already?

If there is nobody to show off to then really there is no incentive to show off right? GREE has had some failed games in the past like Driland where the top got too top heavy and the game became too dissatisfactory for new players. The "middle" falls out in lost hope and lost incentive to continue playing.

Also, fair warning to you, there are only so many stars and armor combinations that exist before they run out of options.

Going to post an interesting war trend on Android that you may not be seeing on the iOS side but it represents a microcosm of the games progress last 3 months. 5393

At some point, people realize that there is a lost cause and give up. If you provide incentives beyond Guild War being ruled by gem spending, you keep the "middle" which makes up a lot more than what is spent by the top 1% These are the people buying tons of chests to try and keep up, who fall for the chest deals for old armors, the people who are the only spender in their guild to make top 25. The iPhone group are sheltered a bit by volume but the same type of people are playing in Android.

You can see that GREE is increasing the frequency of guild wars already which isn't a good sign for the game.

GREE needs people like the OP to stretch and create ideas. Catering to the top 1% only leads to the game's demise because again, without the right player mix, it will not survive.

Looking forward to your response!

lol, your argument is invalid.

top 1% is committed to paying for the game is a fallacy, in fact most of the top players are the one most likely to retire because there is basically not much left to do in the game for them. they will only look forward to guild wars.

And honestly if u ask yourself, you are a Company you will have to cater to your customers which are the paying players for the f2p players. it doesnt matter if the p2p is only 1% because that's where your money is coming from.

Should GREE cater to f2p players, they actually do quite a good job of doing that by making quite a lot of epic armors fuseable.

f2p players dont really matter because they will always be there. people come and go but they will not be missed.

"If there is nobody to show off to then really there is no incentive to show off right? GREE has had some failed games in the past like Driland where the top got too top heavy and the game became too dissatisfactory for new players. The "middle" falls out in lost hope and lost incentive to continue playing."

Your 2nd paragraph is also invalid because there will always be someone to show off to as there is always an abundance of f2p players, the problem is that most p2p players just leave cuz they are bored.

Most games have shelf lives and actually it doesnt matter if the game dies. there can always be a knd 2. Maybe a improved version of the original so is that a bad thing?

Truth to be told the game already went past it's shelf life. The original game was probably positioned to be last maybe about 3-6 months before becoming obsolete. You can see how limited the original content of the game is. but the thing is that knd has become so profitable that the management has decided to prolong the life of the game and investing more into the game.

"Also, fair warning to you, there are only so many stars and armor combinations that exist before they run out of options."

You can always make new elements or 6/7 star amours, new capes. new stats, new things can always be invented so it's not a problem. It will just get to a point that the programming is too old and they will just simply make knd 2 and port everyone over, better graphics etc. So it's not a problem.

"You can see that GREE is increasing the frequency of guild wars already which isn't a good sign for the game. "

it could be a double edge sword. but as a whole. they will be more epic armors to spread around. down point is burnout occurs alot quicker and players will retire quicker as well as it'll be more expensive to maintain being in a top 10 guild because most top 10 guilds almost always go for every epic armor out there. always it will always balance out to an equilibrium.

Anyways, even if the game dies. What does it matter, people will always find another game.

and the developers might remake the game. K n D 2.

So no big deal. Chill out yo.

[TheDoctorSB]

Nothing in life is even and nothing in life is easy. If you want to be the top then you spend money. It is as simple as that. There is no trophy for second place and Gree gives prizes all the way down to last place!

The world is not fair. People with money will spend it and get bigger and better things then people that don't have money. Learn to deal with it or your life will be a very sad one if you can not even deal with the facts of money on a small little game..... smh

The guild that buys the most gems and spends the most gems.... wins. How is that fact that hard to understand and gree will not give up their money maker just to please a guild that does not want to spend as much as the top ranked guild.

[toogoodformyowngood]

Nothing in life is even and nothing in life is easy. If you want to be the top then you spend money. It is as simple as that. There is no trophy for second place and Gree gives prizes all the way down to last place!

The world is not fair. People with money will spend it and get bigger and better things then people that don't have money. Learn to deal with it or your life will be a very sad one if you can not even deal with the facts of money on a small little game..... smh

The guild that buys the most gems and spends the most gems.... wins. How is that fact that hard to understand and gree will not give up their money maker just to please a guild that does not want to spend as much as the top ranked guild.

facts of life.

[Dianish]

Its a trend to spend...

I bet everything would have been different if people actually was strong enough not to get tempted to buy gems. So far all top guilds have done is to support Gree - Gree is not the issue. You are :) Its that simple.

[busteroaf]

Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority). Eventually free players will leave if there are no incentives for them to stay and when the majority of players leave, KnD dies and then the P2W players leave and GREE loses money. So the next time you criticize someone who has a helpful idea that actually is appealing to the MAJORITY (not the 1%) I think you should give him a break.




At some point, people realize that there is a lost cause and give up. If you provide incentives beyond Guild War being ruled by gem spending, you keep the "middle" which makes up a lot more than what is spent by the top 1% These are the people buying tons of chests to try and keep up, who fall for the chest deals for old armors, the people who are the only spender in their guild to make top 25. The iPhone group are sheltered a bit by volume but the same type of people are playing in Android.


So let me get this straight now.

In your first statement, you say that the spenders make up 1-2% of the total population of the game. That is what you said correct?

In your next response, there is now the "middle", and they spend more is spent by the top 1%.

So, the % of players that makes up the population is only 1-2%, but the middle spend more than the top 1%. Are the spenders only 1-2% of the population, or does this "middle" group consist of spenders too? Because if that is so, then your original statement is invalid, and there is no sense in arguing with you because you clearly can't make up your mind, or process your thoughts clearly enough for anyone to understand you to make an argument.

But again, you glanced over my question about losing which 1% of the population kills the game off quicker. Losing the bottom 1%, or the spending top 1% (which clearly isn't 1% anymore with your second statement).

Also, as to me being committed... I wasn't aware that I wouldn't be able to find the game fun anymore and have stopped buying gems, and am using my last 900 to help out a bunch of level 60-90's get some war rewards, rather than do like some and have one big last hurrah and spend 5k gems and get the best epic only to go back to f2p.

Nope, but I won't stop buying gems, I'm too addicted. This guy clearly knows my spending habits better than I do.

Also, I'll refrain from listing the various people who are quitting/have already quit that were big name spenders. You clearly have a better pulse on the spending situation in this game.

[JStarbux]

@ the person saying I was whining about spending. Um, you didn't even read my post at all so try again when you put some thought behind your generic statements. I haven't spent any real money on this game so I have nothing to lose when it fails.

@buster...

1) You've confirmed that people are already unhappy and have quit. So clearly something needs to change right? Guess my graphs I posted are holding true. KnD is on its way out.
2) You yourself have lost incentive in spending in this game and claim you won't buy anymore. Or so you say until the next war because you are in a guild that requires spending. Thus in itself validates the fact you are pot committed.
3) You failed to understand the logic that I equated the spending the top 1% of people do compared to the large portion the middle makes up. The 1% are addicted and will spend anyway but when you lose the middle, you lose enough revenue that you can't rely on the top 1%. Again, my graphs demonstrated that initially the concentration of high spenders were spread across 10 guilds in Android and they have slipped to just 3 guilds with an extreme bunch at the very top.
4) Yes I did answer your question by providing evidence that the top 1% does not make up the necessary player mix to keep a game going. If there is no hope for the middle, the middle leaves and eventually the game dies.
5) There is no reason to validate your inquiry on the bottom 1% because there is no such thing as a bottom 1% of spenders. The number of people not spending on a game usually out numbers the spenders so the quantity of people who have spent $0 is much greater than 1%
6) You've attempted to say that I'm suggesting KnD developers cater to Free to Play when nothing I've suggested hasn't allowed spending to be included. So really you need to get your thoughts together not me.

Maybe I caught you in a night off?

[TheDoctorSB]

Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority). Eventually free players will leave if there are no incentives for them to stay and when the majority of players leave, KnD dies and then the P2W players leave and GREE loses money. So the next time you criticize someone who has a helpful idea that actually is appealing to the MAJORITY (not the 1%) I think you should give him a break.

Oh not another 1%... Do you even know who the people you are cutting down? They are the ones that FINANCE this game. The ones that keep the game mainly f2p for all them 90% that do not even bother to pay a damn cent. The other 9% is your "middle" class. The ones that spend some money, buy some gems.

This damn argument did not work with occupy wall street... what makes you think it will fly here? I mean the main problem here is this game is a PAY TO WIN, like you stated. Yet you say that the others, the ones that pay, like me, $3 bucks here, $10 bucks there for a few gems once in a great while, should get the same treatment as the people paying a few $1000 a war just to take first place?

Also I mainly play this game for free, I have seen many incentives that make the game fun. Sure I am not in Death Knights on the Android side of things, but who the hell cares. This liberal thinking of everyone should get what the 1% gets is not only on the boarder of insanity, but just never going to happen. It is like saying, I am on welfare and I deserve free handouts even though I do nothing but sit on my butt. Sorry that is not how life works in the real world, at least not yet. In a game like this you are lucky you get epics to play with and that you even have the chance to get the plus armors.

So my end of this debate is, if you are not going to pay to be the best in a game that is p2w, you have no right to demand or even expect to get what the people paying thousands get. This is coming from someone that is in the 2-99% and I am glad someone else is shelling out a crap load of money to support this game and keep it mainly free for me.

[toogoodformyowngood]

@ the person saying I was whining about spending. Um, you didn't even read my post at all so try again when you put some thought behind your generic statements. I haven't spent any real money on this game so I have nothing to lose when it fails.

@buster...

1) You've confirmed that people are already unhappy and have quit. So clearly something needs to change right? Guess my graphs I posted are holding true. KnD is on its way out.
2) You yourself have lost incentive in spending in this game and claim you won't buy anymore. Or so you say until the next war because you are in a guild that requires spending. Thus in itself validates the fact you are pot committed.
3) You failed to understand the logic that I equated the spending the top 1% of people do compared to the large portion the middle makes up. The 1% are addicted and will spend anyway but when you lose the middle, you lose enough revenue that you can't rely on the top 1%. Again, my graphs demonstrated that initially the concentration of high spenders were spread across 10 guilds in Android and they have slipped to just 3 guilds with an extreme bunch at the very top.
4) Yes I did answer your question by providing evidence that the top 1% does not make up the necessary player mix to keep a game going. If there is no hope for the middle, the middle leaves and eventually the game dies.
5) There is no reason to validate your inquiry on the bottom 1% because there is no such thing as a bottom 1% of spenders. The number of people not spending on a game usually out numbers the spenders so the quantity of people who have spent $0 is much greater than 1%
6) You've attempted to say that I'm suggesting KnD developers cater to Free to Play when nothing I've suggested hasn't allowed spending to be included. So really you need to get your thoughts together not me.

Maybe I caught you in a night off?

lol. i gotta agree with buster that your arguments are really have no logic to support itself.

you should really read his rebuttal correctly before attempting to "make" any further arguments.

"3) You failed to understand the logic that I equated the spending the top 1% of people do compared to the large portion the middle makes up. The 1% are addicted and will spend anyway but when you lose the middle, you lose enough revenue that you can't rely on the top 1%. Again, my graphs demonstrated that initially the concentration of high spenders were spread across 10 guilds in Android and they have slipped to just 3 guilds with an extreme bunch at the very top."

1. Please re-read your previous statements. You were segregating between p2p and f2p players and now you are combining the spenders and non spenders between the 1% and the
middle portion". So is this middle portion spenders as well then there should have already been considered in the p2p players. As such, there is no consistency in your arguments,

And I believe that the closer percentage of spenders is probably about 30-40%, with the top 5-10% being heavy spenders. So your 1-2% figure which you probably plucked from the air really seem distant, with spenders being defined as anyone who spends, and heavy spenders as ppl who buy at least 800 gems.

Please see below your the extract of your original statement.

"Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority)."


2. You are right about one thing, things need to change. Things are changing but not as fast as some of us would like.

3. KnD is not on it's way out instead it's on a upside trend currently. Some older players are on their way out but not the the game. I don't have the stats but you can definitely see the number of 5 star ratings and the number of players in the game has increased dramatically over the past few months. Every game has people leaving and new ppl joining as long as the number of new players coming in are much higher than the players going out ur pretty much fine. (Assuming the demographics of spenders is the same for the players coming in).

4. Quote your other statement below has a slippery slope fallacy, there are no facts supporting the below "theory" and you have already made a conclusion with no supporting arguments/evidence. There is no evidence supporting that the game is dying, just because some ppl on the forums complain doesn't mean the game is dying. Middle leaves and eventually the game dies, how long is that time frame of eventually 3-5 years, your statement will be irrelevant as nobody would care by that time.

"Yes I did answer your question by providing evidence that the top 1% does not make up the necessary player mix to keep a game going. If there is no hope for the middle, the middle leaves and eventually the game dies. "

Lol, they are so many fallacies in your argument that I don't think it will be good to waste anymore time arguing with you. In the court of law, it would have probably been thrown out the window already. So many assumptions, so little facts, no evidence, too many false conclusions and too many inconsistency in your arguments.

Conclusion: Buster you should just stop wasting your time replying, but well maybe u find it fun.

Guess JStarbux is probably bored too, that's why he wants to "argue" but seriously bro, shape up. put up some "proper" arguments as this seems really one sided with buster owning your ass. One sided battles are boring. Looking forward to your reply.

Have fun guys.

[Eunuchorn]

This isn't an mmo.

Don't expect Gree to treat it like one.

[TheDoctorSB]

lol. i gotta agree with buster that your arguments are really have no logic to support itself.

you should really read his rebuttal correctly before attempting to "make" any further arguments.

"3) You failed to understand the logic that I equated the spending the top 1% of people do compared to the large portion the middle makes up. The 1% are addicted and will spend anyway but when you lose the middle, you lose enough revenue that you can't rely on the top 1%. Again, my graphs demonstrated that initially the concentration of high spenders were spread across 10 guilds in Android and they have slipped to just 3 guilds with an extreme bunch at the very top."

1. Please re-read your previous statements. You were segregating between p2p and f2p players and now you are combining the spenders and non spenders between the 1% and the
middle portion". So is this middle portion spenders as well then there should have already been considered in the p2p players. As such, there is no consistency in your arguments,

And I believe that the closer percentage of spenders is probably about 30-40%, with the top 5-10% being heavy spenders. So your 1-2% figure which you probably plucked from the air really seem distant, with spenders being defined as anyone who spends, and heavy spenders as ppl who buy at least 800 gems.

Please see below your the extract of your original statement.

"Back to the original concept here. KnD is a P2W game sure, but the players that pay represent less than 1% maybe 2% of the total volume of players in KnD (and maybe 50% of the players who talk on the forum giving a false appearance of majority)."


2. You are right about one thing, things need to change. Things are changing but not as fast as some of us would like.

3. KnD is not on it's way out instead it's on a upside trend currently. Some older players are on their way out but not the the game. I don't have the stats but you can definitely see the number of 5 star ratings and the number of players in the game has increased dramatically over the past few months. Every game has people leaving and new ppl joining as long as the number of new players coming in are much higher than the players going out ur pretty much fine. (Assuming the demographics of spenders is the same for the players coming in).

4. Quote your other statement below has a slippery slope fallacy, there are no facts supporting the below "theory" and you have already made a conclusion with no supporting arguments/evidence. There is no evidence supporting that the game is dying, just because some ppl on the forums complain doesn't mean the game is dying. Middle leaves and eventually the game dies, how long is that time frame of eventually 3-5 years, your statement will be irrelevant as nobody would care by that time.

"Yes I did answer your question by providing evidence that the top 1% does not make up the necessary player mix to keep a game going. If there is no hope for the middle, the middle leaves and eventually the game dies. "

Lol, they are so many fallacies in your argument that I don't think it will be good to waste anymore time arguing with you. In the court of law, it would have probably been thrown out the window already. So many assumptions, so little facts, no evidence, too many false conclusions and too many inconsistency in your arguments.

Conclusion: Buster you should just stop wasting your time replying, but well maybe u find it fun.

Guess JStarbux is probably bored too, that's why he wants to "argue" but seriously bro, shape up. put up some "proper" arguments as this seems really one sided with buster owning your ass. One sided battles are boring. Looking forward to your reply.

Have fun guys.Bravo! Well said. However with the mind set he was trying to argue with us with is a very nasty mindset in the United States we call a liberal or as they are starting to come out as, socialists....

I am also done with him because I KNOW he will come back with "thoughts he things are facts" when in fact he has no numbers and has no idea what he is even talking about. It is just something liberals do is take their "opinions" as facts and well in the real world, they are opinions and nothing more lol.

[Sifu]

There is a simple thought experiment common in finance classes:
As a bank owner, would you rather have a $1,000,000 depositor or one million $1 depositors?

That is the simple point JStarbux is making. The "middle" he is referring to is the massive majority who spend only a few bucks to a few bucks a month. Regardless what your egos want you to believe, THOSE are the most important players.

1. Less volatility in income. You "whales" make it impossible for them to forecast their income. They LOVE having you. They HATE when they have to try to rely on you. You are a beautiful boost when you decide to go after something, but they can't rely on you or they fall on their face eventually if you don't like one of their prizes.

2. More stability in game population, which is what advertisers REQUIRE. If all the "whales" left, we have been guestimating 1-5% of the population would be gone? Sure, that amount might account for 50% of overall spending, but they still have 95% of the player-base left who can recruit friends. Look at any of the articles recently on the income of this game. Gree can happily run this game at 50% of its current income. Lose a huge chunck of that 95% however...and the game feels dead from low population and the spenders have even less incentive to stay because they don't have enough opponents to dominate. They will move on to other more populated games.

JStarbux is talking solid theory in game design which has been seen a lot now.

[TheDoctorSB]

This isn't an mmo.

Don't expect Gree to treat it like one.Well technically, by the definition of an mmo, it could be considered as one. It is an online game where you interact with a lot of people, however in a non-direct way and not in an open world. However no way in hell should Gree treat KnD as anything like World of Warcrap or Diafail. That form of mmo is on the way out because of very poor management.

Just remember MMO just means Massive Multiplayer Online Game. Just means a lot of people world wide play this game. It is not the same class of MMO as WoW and Diablo is not in the same class as WoW or KnG but they are all MMO's.

[TheDoctorSB]

There is a simple thought experiment common in finance classes:
As a bank owner, would you rather have a $1,000,000 depositor or one million $1 depositors?

That is the simple point JStarbux is making. The "middle" he is referring to is the massive majority who spend only a few bucks to a few bucks a month. Regardless what your egos want you to believe, THOSE are the most important players.

1. Less volatility in income. You "whales" make it impossible for them to forecast their income. They LOVE having you. They HATE when they have to try to rely on you. You are a beautiful boost when you decide to go after something, but they can't rely on you or they fall on their face eventually if you don't like one of their prizes.

2. More stability in game population, which is what advertisers REQUIRE. If all the "whales" left, we have been guestimating 1-5% of the population would be gone? Sure, that amount might account for 50% of overall spending, but they still have 95% of the player-base left who can recruit friends. Look at any of the articles recently on the income of this game. Gree can happily run this game at 50% of its current income. Lose a huge chunck of that 95% however...and the game feels dead from low population and the spenders have even less incentive to stay because they don't have enough opponents to dominate. They will move on to other more populated games.

JStarbux is talking solid theory in game design which has been seen a lot now.Also look at it this way, Would gree like to have them guys that spurge a crap ton of money at one time in one war, or that other group of players that take 5 or 6 months and will get bored and leave before they ever pay as much as that splurge spender did in one war?

See that is where the argument can be turned around. I bet anything that people in Death Knights per month must spend at least a few thousand bucks PER WAR. I am lucky if I paid gree that in a YEAR. So who would Gree rather have? That person dropping $2000 to 3000 a month. Sure that other group can add up but I bet there is less middle players than both you and JStarbux think. I maybe spend $10 max per month. That would take 2000 to 3000 people like me to pay as much as ONE person and Death Knights BLEW the hell out of the second ranked guild. I would say Death Knights paid like $10k easy between all their players IN ONE WAR. Now that is a guess but for the amount of points they put up, I can not say I am not close.

So no, Gree wants these people splurging thousands a month and guilds splurging 10k or so a war over us small f2p/sometimes p2w players.

[busteroaf]

@ the person saying I was whining about spending. Um, you didn't even read my post at all so try again when you put some thought behind your generic statements. I haven't spent any real money on this game so I have nothing to lose when it fails.

@buster...

1) You've confirmed that people are already unhappy and have quit. So clearly something needs to change right? Guess my graphs I posted are holding true. KnD is on its way out.
2) You yourself have lost incentive in spending in this game and claim you won't buy anymore. Or so you say until the next war because you are in a guild that requires spending. Thus in itself validates the fact you are pot committed.
3) You failed to understand the logic that I equated the spending the top 1% of people do compared to the large portion the middle makes up. The 1% are addicted and will spend anyway but when you lose the middle, you lose enough revenue that you can't rely on the top 1%. Again, my graphs demonstrated that initially the concentration of high spenders were spread across 10 guilds in Android and they have slipped to just 3 guilds with an extreme bunch at the very top.
4) Yes I did answer your question by providing evidence that the top 1% does not make up the necessary player mix to keep a game going. If there is no hope for the middle, the middle leaves and eventually the game dies.
5) There is no reason to validate your inquiry on the bottom 1% because there is no such thing as a bottom 1% of spenders. The number of people not spending on a game usually out numbers the spenders so the quantity of people who have spent $0 is much greater than 1%
6) You've attempted to say that I'm suggesting KnD developers cater to Free to Play when nothing I've suggested hasn't allowed spending to be included. So really you need to get your thoughts together not me.

Maybe I caught you in a night off?

You clearly aren't understanding my posts, nor are you even understanding your own. Notice that you're the only one talking in circles? Are you Mark reincarnated? I'm only going to bother replying to two of your statements, because I honestly don't care about the others at this point.

2) Actually, no. I'm not spending anymore. If you actually knew me or had any contact with me on Line, like many here could verify, I left any major chat rooms dealing with KnD outside of a general chat and my current guild chat. Also, please, tell my how my guild requires spending. Do you even know what guild I'm in? What are the requirements? Apparently not, so please stop acting like you know anything about me and my habits.

5) I'm glad you can realize there is no bottom 1% of the zero spenders. You can do basic math. Congrats!

The point was taking your original statement and its 1-2% number. If that was the entirety of spenders like you referenced, (again, please look it up, you said it yourself) and you took them away, you'd then have NO INCOME. Now reverse that and take away 1-2% of the game population that are $0 spenders. Losing one is more devastating to the game than losing the other.

Clearly the amount of spenders in this game is over 1-2%, we know that. I was just using your numbers against you. Like someone else mentioned, you could run this game with 50% of the profit they are making. Do you think Gree would rather lose those that comprise 50% of their profit, or the same amount of players that spend $0?

Off night? No.

Clearly I'm just having Eun withdrawl.

[toogoodformyowngood]

There is a simple thought experiment common in finance classes:
As a bank owner, would you rather have a $1,000,000 depositor or one million $1 depositors?

That is the simple point JStarbux is making. The "middle" he is referring to is the massive majority who spend only a few bucks to a few bucks a month. Regardless what your egos want you to believe, THOSE are the most important players.

1. Less volatility in income. You "whales" make it impossible for them to forecast their income. They LOVE having you. They HATE when they have to try to rely on you. You are a beautiful boost when you decide to go after something, but they can't rely on you or they fall on their face eventually if you don't like one of their prizes.

2. More stability in game population, which is what advertisers REQUIRE. If all the "whales" left, we have been guestimating 1-5% of the population would be gone? Sure, that amount might account for 50% of overall spending, but they still have 95% of the player-base left who can recruit friends. Look at any of the articles recently on the income of this game. Gree can happily run this game at 50% of its current income. Lose a huge chunck of that 95% however...and the game feels dead from low population and the spenders have even less incentive to stay because they don't have enough opponents to dominate. They will move on to other more populated games.

JStarbux is talking solid theory in game design which has been seen a lot now.

Actually there has been research that says that most companies values the top customers. As the cost of serving this customers are alot lower. The cost of serving 1 million people who just deposit 1 dollar in your bank costs alot more than serving one customer that deposits 1 million dollars. They actually perform cost/benefit analysis on the customers. Citibank has also implemented such measures to reduce the retail customers by having a high maintenance limit and higher fees etc for retail customers.

And if you actually look at cafedecoy graphs and charts, KnD is very heavy weighted on the heavy spenders as such the top 5-10 percent of the population of spenders could probably contribute up to 80-90% of the revenue for the Company. In such situations catering to the needs of the heavy spenders is the most important. I think GREE is trying but probably not as fast as we will like. It's not about egos its about the facts, if the graphs wasn't so heavily weighted to heavy spenders then maybe. The logic is people who buy chest or spend during GW is GREE real customers not the others than actually spend like 10 -50 dollars a year. And its a just a player demographic so it has nothing to do with Ego's.

Anyways some ordinary spenders will become large spenders too. So it's not really a static demographic, its more of a dynamic thing and lol. what you talk about volatility in the income is all due to the major spenders. Ugly epic less spending, bad ass epic major spending rather than volatility due to player spending habits. You can look at the charts that cafe decoy made. It is also influenced by incentives such as discounts.

Most of the income GREE makes comes from direct income which does not come from advertisers. Maybe at the most 5-10% might come from that, so that is of little importance.


Conclusion: JStarbux is talking solid theory in game design. I don't think so.

Pawned? :p

[toogoodformyowngood]

Also look at it this way, Would gree like to have them guys that spurge a crap ton of money at one time in one war, or that other group of players that take 5 or 6 months and will get bored and leave before they ever pay as much as that splurge spender did in one war?

See that is where the argument can be turned around. I bet anything that people in Death Knights per month must spend at least a few thousand bucks PER WAR. I am lucky if I paid gree that in a YEAR. So who would Gree rather have? That person dropping $2000 to 3000 a month. Sure that other group can add up but I bet there is less middle players than both you and JStarbux think. I maybe spend $10 max per month. That would take 2000 to 3000 people like me to pay as much as ONE person and Death Knights BLEW the hell out of the second ranked guild. I would say Death Knights paid like $10k easy between all their players IN ONE WAR. Now that is a guess but for the amount of points they put up, I can not say I am not close.

So no, Gree wants these people splurging thousands a month and guilds splurging 10k or so a war over us small f2p/sometimes p2w players.

bump..... agreed.....

[busteroaf]

Even though Toogoodformyowngood (shortened to TGFMOG now) doesn't agree with Danish on the idea that I'm always right, and I'll admit, I'm not... I like what TGFMOG is spittin.

[Eunuchorn]

Well technically, by the definition of an mmo, it could be considered as one. It is an online game where you interact with a lot of people, however in a non-direct way and not in an open world. However no way in hell should Gree treat KnD as anything like World of Warcrap or Diafail. That form of mmo is on the way out because of very poor management.

Just remember MMO just means Massive Multiplayer Online Game. Just means a lot of people world wide play this game. It is not the same class of MMO as WoW and Diablo is not in the same class as WoW or KnG but they are all MMO's.

You missed my point & you're kind of stupid.

[TheDoctorSB]

You missed my point & you're kind of stupid.never missed your point but I was pointing out you were not quite correct. No, this game does not have the budget of WoW, No this game is nothing like WoW, but fact is this is still considered an mmo. Just because I pointed out that your classification of the game was incorrect does not mean I never understanded your point.

Now calling me stupid is quite rude and very immature. In fact I was backing up your point that WoW catered to the whine babies and crybabies. The ones that did not want to spend the time and effort (Or like here spend the money and spend the gems) to get to the top. I was in a top ranked guild on the Mal'Ganis server, and we were a top 50 guild at one time. The crybabies wanted everything given to them and Blizzard did that and well, it killed their game. When Wrath of the Lich King came out, they had something like 12 million players. Half way though WotLK they started to switch their game design to cater to the "People that do not have all the time as the elite have to play this game and we want their epics" group. Now their game has something like 6 million players because all of the elite players have gotten sick of the devs catering to the lazy.

That is what this thread is all about, "Give me the same as the top guilds without me having to spend thousands of dollars cause I really only want to spend $5.00" cry thread.

I know all too well the way games have developed through the years. I started in online games and design in the mid 1990's, probably around the time you were born, or maybe not even born yet. I ran and coded a game called a MUD, something that would be considered the first style MMO. I played Starcraft, Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Warcraft, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and tried other games here and there through out the years.

So? Balls back in your court. Did I make your point? Did I understand your point? Do you understand this is still considered an mmo? I do not understand why you are starting crap with me when I never started anything with you. I was just setting it straight that this game is an mmo. So How about this Eunuchorn, how about instead of name calling like a 5 year old, you explain how I was wrong and explain what made me sound so stupid because honestly, your thread above has some issues of being very trivial and both lack content to prove a point.

[Eunuchorn]

never missed your point but I was pointing out you were not quite correct. No, this game does not have the budget of WoW, No this game is nothing like WoW, but fact is this is still considered an mmo. Just because I pointed out that your classification of the game was incorrect does not mean I never understanded your point.

Now calling me stupid is quite rude and very immature. In fact I was backing up your point that WoW catered to the whine babies and crybabies. The ones that did not want to spend the time and effort (Or like here spend the money and spend the gems) to get to the top. I was in a top ranked guild on the Mal'Ganis server, and we were a top 50 guild at one time. The crybabies wanted everything given to them and Blizzard did that and well, it killed their game. When Wrath of the Lich King came out, they had something like 12 million players. Half way though WotLK they started to switch their game design to cater to the "People that do not have all the time as the elite have to play this game and we want their epics" group. Now their game has something like 6 million players because all of the elite players have gotten sick of the devs catering to the lazy.

That is what this thread is all about, "Give me the same as the top guilds without me having to spend thousands of dollars cause I really only want to spend $5.00" cry thread.

I know all too well the way games have developed through the years. I started in online games and design in the mid 1990's, probably around the time you were born, or maybe not even born yet. I ran and coded a game called a MUD, something that would be considered the first style MMO. I played Starcraft, Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Warcraft, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and tried other games here and there through out the years.

So? Balls back in your court. Did I make your point? Did I understand your point? Do you understand this is still considered an mmo? I do not understand why you are starting crap with me when I never started anything with you. I was just setting it straight that this game is an mmo. So How about this Eunuchorn, how about instead of name calling like a 5 year old, you explain how I was wrong and explain what made me sound so stupid because honestly, your thread above has some issues of being very trivial and both lack content to prove a point.

Trolled.
& trolled well if I do say so myself.

[Hai2yooo]

how bout hmo n ppo?

[Doc Sharp]

I feel like I'm missing out by not posting some incoherent babble that contains "1%"700 times in the post.

[cafedecoy]

page 12 and counting of cyclical banter?

The game must have gotten boring.... :O More war? More content?

[toogoodformyowngood]

this is fun! dang no reply :(

[Eunuchorn]

page 12 and counting of cyclical banter?

The game must have gotten boring.... :O More war? More content?

Page 12? Love of god, Caffy, increase your post per page!

[Doc Sharp]

The spenders in this PTW game take epics and spend money because they are the 1%. The other players make up 99% and they want stuff too. If the 1% quit then effectively the player base would decrease by (y*.01) leaving the remaining 99% to be all like, "YO EPIX FREE NAO" and be happy. However this would create a new 1% that would dominate the new 99% remaining.

In the 100% total you have a bottom 1%, even though some guy said "nuh no therez no bottum 1%" or some such. Mathematically though, it's totally true. There is definitely a bottom 1%, because that's how math works. If the bottom 1% quit then some people believe nobody would care. I disagree, because the bottom 1% are actually the alt/gold accounts for the top 1% so we think they're pretty cool and don't want them to quit.

To maximize potential profits Gree should cater to 100% of the player base whenever possible. Those not in the top 1% do play and enjoy the game. They rate it, and tell their friends about it, which brings in more players. Some of those players develop into 1%'rs. That being said, it's also very important to keep your best customers (those 1% players) happy, so that they keep spending 50% of their pay on this game. Without the rewards being so weighted on the side of the 1%, they won't play anymore and spend their moneys. Without their moneys, there's no game to connect to, because there's this thing called overhead, and Gree has to pay the overhead. Gross profit - overhead/expenses/payroll/etc (aka Accounts Payable) = Net Profit. With negative net profit, 1% and 99% have to go find a new game to spend their moneys on and the cycle repeats.




How'd I do?

[Reversal]

The spenders in this PTW game take epics and spend money because they are the 1%. The other players make up 99% and they want stuff too. If the 1% quit then effectively the player base would decrease by (y*.01) leaving the remaining 99% to be all like, "YO EPIX FREE NAO" and be happy. However this would create a new 1% that would dominate the new 99% remaining.

In the 100% total you have a bottom 1%, even though some guy said "nuh no therez no bottum 1%" or some such. Mathematically though, it's totally true. There is definitely a bottom 1%, because that's how math works. If the bottom 1% quit then some people believe nobody would care. I disagree, because the bottom 1% are actually the alt/gold accounts for the top 1% so we think they're pretty cool and don't want them to quit.

To maximize potential profits Gree should cater to 100% of the player base whenever possible. Those not in the top 1% do play and enjoy the game. They rate it, and tell their friends about it, which brings in more players. Some of those players develop into 1%'rs. That being said, it's also very important to keep your best customers (those 1% players) happy, so that they keep spending 50% of their pay on this game. Without the rewards being so weighted on the side of the 1%, they won't play anymore and spend their moneys. Without their moneys, there's no game to connect to, because there's this thing called overhead, and Gree has to pay the overhead. Gross profit - overhead/expenses/payroll/etc (aka Accounts Payable) = Net Profit. With negative net profit, 1% and 99% have to go find a new game to spend their moneys on and the cycle repeats.




How'd I do?

You did great actually I agree with everything you said here.
However, if I look at it from a business perspective then the 1% will always remain that 1% that keeps Gree's ridiculous income flowing. I don't feel this will settle down anytime soon.
Let me ask you: If you were to own Gree and you would make millions just by doing the same things you always do, would you stop doing it and start up something new? High chance the answer to that question is No.

Gree is the same in this and they have the right to do so. In the end we're all just puppets of the ToS that we've accepted by playing and paying for this game. I don't mean to support Gree, I don't support their ways since I'm someone who plays the game however, if I were to be a part of Gree's management I would of done the exact same thing because it works for them.
Unfortunately for us the people on the forum are just a really small portion of the actual database of registered players on Gree (even less than 0.01% for sure)
They don't need to listen to us because eventually they did the right thing by setting up the game in a way people will always be attracted to paying for this game.

Everyone on the game have their individual goals, Gree is just the Third Party providing the neccessary help to achieve those goals, By Paying. No matter how many tickets we'll send, how much we'll whine, We're in the end just that 0.01% of the game that has a voice. If all of us would absolutely stop spending Gree would still make a TON of money, new players join in each day and all Gree can see are Dollar signs in their eyes.

The only possible way for Gree to start giving us what we want is when it becomes a profitable change for them.
The best example is probably when we lose players they throw in an event like Referral Rush.
I know some of the people on the forums are blindsided by the way Gree's handling things but I personally think it's better to have NO EXPECTATIONS AT ALL, EVER. That is actually the best way to enjoy playing the game.
That's just my point of view really, I don't care what anyone does with it but I hope it can help a person or two.

[Doc Sharp]

I was actually just aiming at sarcasm there to see how many times I could use 1% in a post. Unfortuntely I came out more coherent than the previous posts did. My eyes began to bleed reading people regurgitating econ 101.

[busteroaf]

The spenders in this PTW game take epics and spend money because they are the 1%. The other players make up 99% and they want stuff too. If the 1% quit then effectively the player base would decrease by (y*.01) leaving the remaining 99% to be all like, "YO EPIX FREE NAO" and be happy. However this would create a new 1% that would dominate the new 99% remaining.

In the 100% total you have a bottom 1%, even though some guy said "nuh no therez no bottum 1%" or some such. Mathematically though, it's totally true. There is definitely a bottom 1%, because that's how math works. If the bottom 1% quit then some people believe nobody would care. I disagree, because the bottom 1% are actually the alt/gold accounts for the top 1% so we think they're pretty cool and don't want them to quit.

To maximize potential profits Gree should cater to 100% of the player base whenever possible. Those not in the top 1% do play and enjoy the game. They rate it, and tell their friends about it, which brings in more players. Some of those players develop into 1%'rs. That being said, it's also very important to keep your best customers (those 1% players) happy, so that they keep spending 50% of their pay on this game. Without the rewards being so weighted on the side of the 1%, they won't play anymore and spend their moneys. Without their moneys, there's no game to connect to, because there's this thing called overhead, and Gree has to pay the overhead. Gross profit - overhead/expenses/payroll/etc (aka Accounts Payable) = Net Profit. With negative net profit, 1% and 99% have to go find a new game to spend their moneys on and the cycle repeats.


How'd I do?

Too much bold. If all the spenders left in one fell swoop. how many non-spenders would instantly become $500 a war spenders and replace them? If that were the case, they would/should already be in RR and getting their epics. Yes, there will always be a flow of in and out, even spenders, but people who normally will not pay, will continue to not pay, even if the top tier were to leave. You'll have a few whales pop up over time, but generally, I don't see the next bracket of people instantly replacing the top spenders.

And the bottom 1% being alts and gold accounts? I know plenty of people with alt accounts that do more than most people in this game. Even gold accounts are still more active than many in game.

The bottom 1% are people who hardly play, log in for a boss kill here and there, every other week, and occasionally play when mommy and daddy let them have access to the ipad. Those people wouldn't be missed.

Your views of every single person being important are skewed.

And yes, you fail at sarcasm.

[Doc Sharp]

Having to explain the sarcasm makes it not as amusing. I am a failure.

[Eunuchorn]

How does Gree cater to 100% of players?
Add new content.

Again, this is not an MMO.
Don't expect Gree to treat it like one.

They don't care who leaves & how much money they take with them. The Gree Model chugs along despite however many users there are playing the game. Let the cookie cutter wars continue.

That being said, we are missing a few "new contents" from the model, such as Raid Bosses & more consistent LTQs, but I wouldn't bother asking for a release time table.


If you would refer to this thread:
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?76568-New-update!-Do-it-yourself-account-transfers-and-more!!-Download-the-new-update-now!&p=1103768#post1103768

"Keep us updated! The update worked fine in testing but we still need to hear from you to know it works for all of you. Please contact customer support if you find the new update isn't working for you! Thanks a lot!
~Elita"

Worked fine in testing?
I have 2 phones on me at all times, it took me a single account bind & transfer to see the system was 100% broken lol. What was this supposed in house testing? If Gree needs real testers, RR is more than willing.

A more recent quote:

'We are working on fixing some issues that occurred with the update in December. I do apologize for my silence on the forums as things have been crazy here. I have been reading through some of the posts although I do not always reply. Keep with the posts as they don't go unread!

Any new content coming our way was MAJORLY set back because Gree is still scrambling to restore all the accounts that were lost (including an RR member who was in Santa war but is being told he cannot be given the armor to his restored account)

[Doc Sharp]

It's not an MMO but you're looking for raid bosses and LTQ's? Am I misunderstanding your post?

[The Pale Rider]

It's not an MMO but you're looking for raid bosses and LTQ's? Am I misunderstanding your post?

His point is that GREE games don't have much custom programming. They skin the same code for different games (e.g. guilds). The new content is just graphics. Other GREE games with the same code as this one have raid bosses and have for a long time. Therefore it makes sense to expect it to happen for K&D. The point is why hasn't it happened and he's suggesting its because the techs are spending all their energy dealing with customer account issues and not game upgrades.

[Doc Sharp]

Ohhh I got ya

[taylor1993]

It's not an MMO but you're looking for raid bosses and LTQ's? Am I misunderstanding your post?

You completely misunderstood. The game model Gree has set forth in its other games(none of which at MMO's) includes raid bosses and LTQ's. KND should hopefully receive these in time.

[taylor1993]

His point is that GREE games don't have much custom programming. They skin the same code for different games (e.g. guilds). The new content is just graphics. Other GREE games with the same code as this one have raid bosses and have for a long time. Therefore it makes sense to expect it to happen for K&D. The point is why hasn't it happened and he's suggesting its because the techs are spending all their energy dealing with customer account issues and not game upgrades.

No offense lad but that's not what he meant at all. :P

[The Pale Rider]

No offense lad but that's not what he meant at all. :P

Your first post agrees with mine. Your second declares mine is inaccurate. You appear schizoid.

[Eunuchorn]

Doc,

Download: Modern war, Crime City, Kingdom Age, Dragon Realms, Beyond Dead

Then you will understand what K&D will eventually be but no more. This is not a corporation that considers player longevity in their long term design plans.

[taylor1993]

Your first post agrees with mine. Your second declares mine is inaccurate. You appear schizoid. I was reading it while driving :P that's what I get. Sorry pale :$

[Nightcore]

O wow tht would be great sort of

[SomethingStrange]

Anytime I think they might actually test something, I remember the first iOS war that we all live tested for them.

[Eunuchorn]

I5 had no problems in first war! Woot!

Also,

O wow tht would be great sort of

What are you referring to?