Observation re:raid boss shenanigans

[jaxx]

I love how no one would have ever known and therefore never complained about these 'duplicate' item awards before Gree made a thread telling us it was happening.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see any thread complaining some guy had 132 ixtabspeeders when they should only have 128. We all no how everyone loves a complaint here so why try to fix something that wasn't broke!

If you saw someone's inventory with loads of legendaries you would not question it, you would just think wow they farmed a lot, good on them, and they technically didn't cheat or do anything wrong anyway even if some were duplicates

I find it hilarious that Gree actually created this issue by telling us items would be taken away in a small scale, then just pillaged the majority of players for thousands of times, seemingly targeting the legendary items in a 'random' removal

For goodness sake after all the issues recently you could have just said nothing and there would have been absolutely no complaints about the event (items wise, obviously the server crash was still a huge problem)

Now instead of dealing with people just accepting the server crash as an unfortunate mistake you are going to face thousands of refunds from Google and iTunes, widespread quitting, gold boycott threads and endless more complaints about future problems.

For the record I enjoyed this type of event and it really could have been the event that put the faith back into people to continue playing CC.

Suggestion: re run your repair script in reverse so everyone gets their stats back, no one will complain

[jmeijer]

I can't be bothered about it. I lost about 75K. It's actually good against the stat inflation; people who lost a million plus may not like this, but it helps to balance the game a bit.

[BigMoney]

I love how no one would have ever known and therefore never complained about these 'duplicate' item awards before Gree made a thread telling us it was happening.

No. Some people lost literally millions in stats (lol stat/modifier hyperinflation), tons of others just eclipsed some landmark via the boss event (e.g. just hit 1 mil, 2mil, 5mil, 10mil, whatever), and even more probably checked their stats at some point near the end of the boss event. There's no way players can lose such a sizable percentage of their stats and not notice. I'm sure quite a few people who do keep close track of their stats would notice they were missing legendaries. GREE only cut down on the discovery time, and little else.

[Go4Seven]

There's no way players can lose such a sizable percentage of their stats and not notice..

I think the OP meant nobody would have noticed the extraneous items were awarded (not removed). They could have left us with the extra items and nobody would have noticed or minded if others were disproportionately awarded extra stuff. It's ironic that Gree tried to be fair about this and actually created more trouble than they solved.

[jaxx]

yeh Big money
I meant that no one would have noticed that they or anyone else had additional items, and therfore no complaints :p

if gree just left it as it was, not said anything, and not ran their 'repair' script then no stats would have dropped, and there would be no complaints

[Truth Hurts Doesn't It]

Why did Gree only address the duplicate items? They didn't address the server crash or the lost time during the 4 hr shutdown for maintenance? Every syndicate lost valuable time during the raid boss and should have been compensated. At least they could have extended the raid boss by 4 hrs. Gree said you have 5 days to complete but actually you only had 4 days and 20 hrs. How is that fair?

[jaxx]

I think the OP meant nobody would have noticed the extraneous items were awarded (not removed). They could have left us with the extra items and nobody would have noticed or minded if others were disproportionately awarded extra stuff. It's ironic that Gree tried to be fair about this and actually created more trouble than they solved.

spot on, it's hilarious
i guess the only people that would notice are the few that keep track of all their inventory, but then if you did see extra items your wouldn't complain about it.

for those who lost more stats (i.e. in the millions) maybe people will say they deserve to have some taken back, but lets be honest to have gained so much in stats they must have spent the most in the event, so maybe it's still fair

all comes back to the point of if nothing was said, noone would have had a complaint at all

[CJ54]

At least they could have extended the raid boss by 4 hrs.

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

[iteachem]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

I think that was because there was ranking necessary and placement mattered so it increased gold spending. This one had no ranking so just finishing was goal was the objective for most. I doubt few would have objected since those who did not wish to spend further gold could stop with little negative impact on their game.

[Rebels]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

This is true CJ! I am very pleased you are starting to take notice. Either way you are screwed.

Now while you are here is there going to be some sort of compensation for all our pain?

[jaxx]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.
is that a serious response?


thats because it was in a war, when people had planned their gold spend to end exactly at the end of the timer as to be battling to the max right up to the last minute, extending the war screwed everyone up as they had to keep spending gold to stay in the relevant tier etc (only negatives)

there would have been no problem at all for extending the raid boss, seeing as there was no leaderboard, it would have given more time to beat bosses, complete goals and get more items (only positives)

the only problem would have been people would have gained more stats and therefore lost more when you stole all the items back

[KingOW]

This is comparable to you driving thru McD's drive thru, buys one BigMac and one cheeseburger but get a extra cheeseburger. The employee discover this when you have the bag and put down his hand and random takes one burger. You may end up with two cheeseburgers for the price of one BigMac and one cheeseburger. Is that fair? No. Is this fair? No way near.

[sonic_empire]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

Comparing Raid Bosses with War? lol go get some reality check.

Maybe instead of coming up with new events every few days you could all focus on basics and improve game. Crashing, unable to log in, etc

[J4CK D4N13L N0 7]

is that a serious response?


thats because it was in a war, when people had planned their gold spend to end exactly at the end of the timer as to be battling to the max right up to the last minute, extending the war screwed everyone up as they had to keep spending gold to stay in the relevant tier etc (only negatives)

there would have been no problem at all for extending the raid boss, seeing as there was no leaderboard, it would have given more time to beat bosses, complete goals and get more items (only positives)

the only problem would have been people would have gained more stats and therefore lost more when you stole all the items back

preach, that wasn't exactly the most thought out response I've seen from an admin

[Kickur]

This is comparable to you driving thru McD's drive thru, buys one BigMac and one cheeseburger but get a extra cheeseburger. The employee discover this when you have the bag and put down his hand and random takes one burger. You may end up with two cheeseburgers for the price of one BigMac and one cheeseburger. Is that fair? No. Is this fair? No way near.

*MOAR WEED

Slightly off balanced analogy! You'd need to buy a grab bag of two items, mostly cheeseburgers, with a chance to win the legendary big mac. You get three, they reach in and grab one back. Though they probably felt first and grabbed at the largest item. :p

[KingOW]

*MOAR WEEDSlightly off balanced analogy! You'd need to buy a grab bag of two items, mostly cheeseburgers, with a chance to win the legendary big mac. You get three, they reach in and grab one back. Though they probably felt first and grabbed at the largest item. :pGree should have "felt" before they removed items. They have clearly stated they went in blinde and grabbed randomly prizes from us.

[Truth Hurts Doesn't It]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

I remember! We should be compensated with something; the prizes you took back, gold or a prize like the birthday cake. It wasn't fair to have lost time for maintenance and server crash. Everyone lost out!

[saintdenay11]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

Wow did he really say that. I think someone has a serious attitude problem or maybe he/she doesn't care because the way they are handling this issue they are all going to be looking for new jobs soon. I am glad I went gold free but I can tell you that all the member's in the 2 syndicates I am in are going gold free. Many of those members are in the gold bonus program

[Travers]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

Lol he got us there


*How about coming out with a LTB, everyone enjoys those!

[chubster]

I am sure this has been posted elsewhere but hey-ho, been bashing my head against a customer service department that do not even show us the courtesy of reading our e-mails before cut and pasting the standard response and hitting the send button.

My syndicate, Free Players Utd, completed Ixtabs Hideout with about 3 hours of the event left. On completing level 22 instead of receiving the Demon Biker our counter reset to 0/7. Despite this 2 of our players received the prize, that should be a massive clue GREE if you can be bothered to listen. Many of us spent our real money on gold to complete the event and i am in the process of trying to get mine refunded since i feel that i have been robbed.

Despite all members bombarding customer support for the best part of a week with e-mails and screenshots we have nothing, not even the common decency of their staff reading our complaints and providing a response relevant to those complaints.

I am off, they might not wear a mask or ride a horse people but GREE are modern day highwaymen - thieves and robbers to a man.

[x REQUIEM x]

You guys sure do cry a lot about what's fair and what's not. Stop asking for handouts every event because everything didn't go as initially intended, this game has been up for years and so have all the problems so i find it a little ridiculous that all you people do is whine and complain about things you can't control. If you don't like the game then quit, gree will gladly take your helpful suggestions but will shun and ignore your countless "whine and dine" threads. The older players have realized that nothing significant will change and so they either quit or stopped wasting their time complaining so do us all a favor and stop cluttering the forums with your pointless banter.

[Hodgy83]

I love how no one would have ever known and therefore never complained about these 'duplicate' item awards before Gree made a thread telling us it was happening.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see any thread complaining some guy had 132 ixtabspeeders when they should only have 128. We all no how everyone loves a complaint here so why try to fix something that wasn't broke!

If you saw someone's inventory with loads of legendaries you would not question it, you would just think wow they farmed a lot, good on them, and they technically didn't cheat or do anything wrong anyway even if some were duplicates

I find it hilarious that Gree actually created this issue by telling us items would be taken away in a small scale, then just pillaged the majority of players for thousands of times, seemingly targeting the legendary items in a 'random' removal

For goodness sake after all the issues recently you could have just said nothing and there would have been absolutely no complaints about the event (items wise, obviously the server crash was still a huge problem)

Now instead of dealing with people just accepting the server crash as an unfortunate mistake you are going to face thousands of refunds from Google and iTunes, widespread quitting, gold boycott threads and endless more complaints about future problems.

For the record I enjoyed this type of event and it really could have been the event that put the faith back into people to continue playing CC.

Suggestion: re run your repair script in reverse so everyone gets their stats back, no one will complain

I actually noticed this before the thread. I told my Syn and we decided it would be in my best interest to send a ticket into GREE. I must have been very active during this glitch because my stats jumped almost 5mil. The reason i brought it to their attention was because i would have been accused of hacking next battle when we faced our usual opponents and it would have been terrible to have my account frozen while they investigated. Funny enough their original response back to me was that everything looked ok and they expected some accounts to have large stat increases. The next day i recieved a new email from them stating that their was an issue and that they will run a script after the event finishes so it does not interfere with anything.

[Happyperson1]

But listen to yourself -- GREE created an issue that they could have ignored. And not caused an outrage. They are not madochists. They are doing it presumably to keep the game fair. It would have been so easy to let players keep the extra weapons. But GREE didn't do that. Isn't it a possibility that they acted on behalf of all the players and that this backlash is being voiced by a small vocal minority -- the top two syndicates who gained the most and also lost the most?

[Intrance]

You guys sure do cry a lot about what's fair and what's not. Stop asking for handouts every event because everything didn't go as initially intended, this game has been up for years and so have all the problems so i find it a little ridiculous that all you people do is whine and complain about things you can't control. If you don't like the game then quit, gree will gladly take your helpful suggestions but will shun and ignore your countless "whine and dine" threads. The older players have realized that nothing significant will change and so they either quit or stopped wasting their time complaining so do us all a favor and stop cluttering the forums with your pointless banter.
A whiner that whines about whiners is even more annoying

[kimberleyj]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.

April the 1st was ages ago. during the war gree changed the time adding hours just so they can get more money knowing it would make alot of teams mad, gree only did this to line their pockets not to make up for the mess up.

Gree could have picked 1 day to do to maintence and made sure the was no event during that day. the company you work for picked the day when you had a new event on. Gree knew very well that adding extra hours to this event would cause no complaint by the public, those that had finshed the event would have farmed for more weapons and those that hadn't would have carried on. if i was Gree i would have said "alot of people got extra items from the boss that they shouldn't have but seen as we messed up with the event we are gonna let everyone keep their weapons".

[CJ54]

But listen to yourself -- GREE created an issue that they could have ignored. And not caused an outrage. They are not madochists. They are doing it presumably to keep the game fair. It would have been so easy to let players keep the extra weapons. But GREE didn't do that. Isn't it a possibility that they acted on behalf of all the players and that this backlash is being voiced by a small vocal minority -- the top two syndicates who gained the most and also lost the most?

If this had been even across the board (which it wasn't) and it wasn't a HUGE discrepancy in some cases, then we might have been able to leave it alone. But when some people got a couple thousand or tens of thousands extra A/D and some other people got a couple MILLION extra A/D and most people in the game didn't get ANYTHING extra, that isn't something we can just leave be no matter how much the people who benefited from the glitch would prefer that we would. I completely understand people being upset, but we couldn't let that sit.



April the 1st was ages ago. during the war gree changed the time adding hours just so they can get more money knowing it would make alot of teams mad, gree only did this to line their pockets not to make up for the mess up.

Gree could have picked 1 day to do to maintence and made sure the was no event during that day.

I was referring to the Syndicate War in September. And you are incorrect about the reasoning, that extension was made based on recommendation of Support and Engineering after we saw a tidal flood of tickets on the issues that were happening at the time. After that fiasco, we'd prefer to stick to our guns on stated end times.

If you mean the maintenance at the end of the raid boss, where the servers were down: that wasn't scheduled maintenance, that was emergency repair/load balancing. We don't do scheduled maintenance during events, and you can't pick when to do emergency maintenance.

[reticlover]

You guys sure do cry a lot about what's fair and what's not. Stop asking for handouts every event because everything didn't go as initially intended, this game has been up for years and so have all the problems so i find it a little ridiculous that all you people do is whine and complain about things you can't control. If you don't like the game then quit, gree will gladly take your helpful suggestions but will shun and ignore your countless "whine and dine" threads. The older players have realized that nothing significant will change and so they either quit or stopped wasting their time complaining so do us all a favor and stop cluttering the forums with your pointless banter.

I have all the right to whine and be mad about what happened,

how did I receive 3 recoil blades each a day apart and the pop up days I won that item, but you say they are extra items given and you took items from us at random, but I only lost legendary, epic, and rare items,
Give everyone their items back,
Give us the raid boss screen, and let us look at the history of items we won, then give us those items and take back any that are truly extra, that's the right thing to do,

[reticlover]

You did do scheduled maintenance during the event, you posted before raid boss that you would be down for maintenance on a certain day for so long, then raid boss stated a couple days later and it was in the middle of the raid boss

[CJ54]

You did do scheduled maintenance during the event, you posted before raid boss that you would be down for maintenance on a certain day for so long, then raid boss stated a couple days later and it was in the middle of the raid boss

Ah, I apologize, you're right. We shut down for a couple of hours to avoid the worst of the DST server bug.

[saintdenay11]

I guess the biggest question is why did most people lose the epic weapons and not the common weapons.

[BigMoney]

The last time we did that, the playerbase made it abundantly clear that they did not want us to do that again.
I was referring to the Syndicate War in September. And you are incorrect about the reasoning, that extension was made based on recommendation of Support and Engineering after we saw a tidal flood of tickets on the issues that were happening at the time. After that fiasco, we'd prefer to stick to our guns on stated end times.


Just saw this, and couldn't resist commenting. How out of touch do you have to be to be unable to see the difference between extending an event that directly pits syndicates against each other to compete for a limited number of prizes (like a syndicate war or PvP), and extending an event where players are only competing against the clock for a given prize (e.g. an LTQ, a syndicate LTQ, a boss event, a syndicate boss event, a case event, etc)?

[Dipstik]

I guess the biggest question is why did most people lose the epic weapons and not the common weapons.

Reporting/memory bias or outright lying probably.

[mxz]

Just saw this, and couldn't resist commenting. How out of touch do you have to be to be unable to see the difference between extending an event that directly pits syndicates against each other to compete for a limited number of prizes (like a syndicate war or PvP), and extending an event where players are only competing against the clock for a given prize (e.g. an LTQ, a syndicate LTQ, a boss event, a syndicate boss event, a case event, etc)?You seem to be implying they were ever in touch...:eek:

[BigMoney]

Reporting/memory bias or outright lying probably.

Or perhaps "extra" items were removed "randomly," without regards to their scarcity, and thus players had a disproportionate amount of their top shelf items removed?

[kybigdaddy]

People that looked at the rewards screens know they got what they deserved. The extra rewards removed were not random even though that was previously stated by an admin. The extra rewards were random and those were removed.

[CJ54]

Just saw this, and couldn't resist commenting. How out of touch do you have to be to be unable to see the difference between extending an event that directly pits syndicates against each other to compete for a limited number of prizes (like a syndicate war or PvP), and extending an event where players are only competing against the clock for a given prize (e.g. an LTQ, a syndicate LTQ, a boss event, a syndicate boss event, a case event, etc)?

I well realize there is a difference between the underlying mechanic being direct competition versus indirect competition (and *everything* in the game that isn't direct competition is indirect competition, because it is a pvp game). But that wasn't the first time that we had a backlash against extending an event, it was just the loudest due to the nature of the event.

EDIT: Going forward after hashing the whole thing out over here, this was what was decided: IF it looks like the right thing to do to extend a (non-direct-competitive) event's time, and IF we can message that to people with a good deal of time so that they can plan for it, then maybe. The feedback on this one has been passed along, since it's probable that we could have extended the event with plenty of warning if we had been more on the ball over here in terms of communication.

[one man gang]

Fight fight fight

[mxz]

I well realize there is a difference between the underlying mechanic being direct competition versus indirect competition (and *everything* in the game that isn't direct competition is indirect competition, because it is a pvp game). But that wasn't the first time that we had a backlash against extending an event, it was just the loudest due to the nature of the event.

EDIT: Going forward after hashing the whole thing out over here, this was what was decided: IF it looks like the right thing to do to extend a (non-direct-competitive) event's time, and IF we can message that to people with a good deal of time so that they can plan for it, then maybe. The feedback on this one has been passed along, since it's probable that we could have extended the event with plenty of warning if we had been more on the ball over here in terms of communication.The big difference you seem to be missing is there isn't a notification that needs to go out to extend an indirect event. Most people probably wouldn't notice. Things that people have planned to end at a certain time (ok, off the top of my head and in my experience that is only war and PVP tourneys) are the only things people are tracking that close.

[GucciMane]

I well realize there is a difference between the underlying mechanic being direct competition versus indirect competition (and *everything* in the game that isn't direct competition is indirect competition, because it is a pvp game). But that wasn't the first time that we had a backlash against extending an event, it was just the loudest due to the nature of the event.

EDIT: Going forward after hashing the whole thing out over here, this was what was decided: IF it looks like the right thing to do to extend a (non-direct-competitive) event's time, and IF we can message that to people with a good deal of time so that they can plan for it, then maybe. The feedback on this one has been passed along, since it's probable that we could have extended the event with plenty of warning if we had been more on the ball over here in terms of communication.



Err....no, its not "direct vs. indirect" competition, its more simple than that.


Its PLAYER VS. PLAYER against PLAYER VS. NPC. NPC = Non player character.

[Happyperson1]

But CI answers the major question; let's move on and stop arguing around the margin. GREE discovered gross inequities affecting numerous players during the Raid Boss event. They are sorry but they fixed it as best they could. I admire them because their lives certainly could have been a lot easier by ignoring the problem. But they are looking out for players and we should all move on.

[CJ54]

The big difference you seem to be missing is there isn't a notification that needs to go out to extend an indirect event. Most people probably wouldn't notice. Things that people have planned to end at a certain time (ok, off the top of my head and in my experience that is only war and PVP tourneys) are the only things people are tracking that close.

You forgot leaderboard events. But I can honestly tell you it's everything. We've extended collect 10 events and LTQ events a couple of times in the games, and Support gets a big flood of tickets asking for reimbursements because "if people had known they had more time, they would have done X differently". It's just that there's more balanced opinions on the forums in those cases, but counting for all channels of communication, it is everything.

[PSYCHO ACE]

I well realize there is a difference between the underlying mechanic being direct competition versus indirect competition (and *everything* in the game that isn't direct competition is indirect competition, because it is a pvp game). But that wasn't the first time that we had a backlash against extending an event, it was just the loudest due to the nature of the event.

EDIT: Going forward after hashing the whole thing out over here, this was what was decided: IF it looks like the right thing to do to extend a (non-direct-competitive) event's time, and IF we can message that to people with a good deal of time so that they can plan for it, then maybe. The feedback on this one has been passed along, since it's probable that we could have extended the event with plenty of warning if we had been more on the ball over here in terms of communication.

So because some players decided to forego the big prize and choose to farm instead, and still spent lots of gold..to have an opportunity to get items at a discount rate. Where does it make sense that we a penalized If Gree would have done there job they should have placed a limit to farming and advised everyone prior to the beginning of the event. Instead of allowing unlimited farms until time ran out.

[alex6789]

So because some players decided to forego the big prize and choose to farm instead, and still spent lots of gold..to have an opportunity to get items at a discount rate. Where does it make sense that we a penalized If Gree would have done there job they should have placed a limit to farming and advised everyone prior to the beginning of the event. Instead of allowing unlimited farms until time ran out.Especially since A&F has said this had nothing to do with farming?