Epic Boss Simulation Spreadsheet

[Oyster]

Hi Guys,

V2 of this battle simulation is out. Epic Boss Simulator V2 (http://tinyurl.com/p6w5c3h)

Thanks so much to cafedecoy, Lii, rylar and Meepo for their suggestion.

Changes are:

Rounded up / down damage
7% chance of misses
20% chance of critical (both knights and boss) (I think 20% is bit high, maybe someone can suggest?)
Added Knights level, which links to their health
Knights critical damage every 4 turns
Random simulation generator (Press Ctrl - R)
Added final result of knights and boss status
Change 'Rock' to 'Earth' :)


Usage Guide:
- Enter 0 for attack and defense in knight 2, 3, if not being used.
- Enter 0 for Attack, Defense and Health in Knight 4, 5 if not being used.
- Select EB Level and Elements
- Select Knights level
- Select Knights position
- Insert Knight 1, 2, 3 attack and defense value
- Insert Knight 4, 5 attack, defense and health value
- Insert Knight 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 armor elements
- Press CTRL - R to simulate

I'm using the calculation based on Theorycrafting solved the Epic Boss damage (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55912-Theorycrafting-solved-the-Epic-Boss-damage!) by BethMo.

The idea is that I'm trying to answers some of these questions:

what setup do I need to beat this particular epic boss level?
is adding 1 knight enough? or do I need to add 2 knights?
What equipment should I use to beat them? does my AA+ good enough? or should I use the legendary armor, but maybe is weak against the boss?
Is having nemesis really worth it? what epic boss level can I beat without them?


http://s10.postimg.org/vs00a2ykp/simv2.png

Comments/suggestions are very much welcome!

~ Oyster

[cafedecoy]

It's a great start! Thanks for this!

Are you open to refining this?

There also seems to be a "capping limit" - that is, if your friend knights have substantially strong stats compared to your knights, then his ability to help you is also capped.

For example:
Your friend knight's hit points are capped, and it's a function of your maximum hit points of your knights (so... if you are below lv 100, you will not get the full 607 hit points). I wish I could recall the relationship but it's been a while since I've surpassed level 100, so I can't really derive this function. I think it may just have been a direct relationship - your friend's hit points is equal to its hit point or your strongest knight's hit point, whichever is less).

Your friend knight's ability to attack and defend is also capped, and it is a function of the stats of your strongest knight. I don't have enough data for this, but it seems to me that if there is a big gap (say 500 pts or above) between my attack and my defense stats, the friends' stats get capped and their ability to help gets compromised.

[Rylar]

Dodges should be taken into account. Obviously you can't count on a dodge, but saying you will win if you get dodged less than 3 times is better than saying you are going to win if you are just scraping by.


Other than that looks great so far.

[cafedecoy]

Dodges should be taken into account. Obviously you can't count on a dodge, but saying you will win if you get dodged less than 3 times is better than saying you are going to win if you are just scraping by.


Other than that looks great so far.

Good point :) Maybe a separate box that tells you how many dodges you can afford? :) That should be a good indicator of how much wiggle room you have

[Rylar]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to suggest.

Also, it doesn't seem to take special attacks into consideration. (I could be wrong, just trying to read through the data).

[Meepo]

Maybe after taking dodges, crits and special attacks into account, you can make it simulate 100 battles or so and it will tell you how many were won and how many were lost.

[cafedecoy]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to suggest.

Also, it doesn't seem to take special attacks into consideration. (I could be wrong, just trying to read through the data).

That, I usually think evens out because your knights sometimes perform random special attacks, and then the boss also performs random special attacks. So rather than simulating it, you can just probably consider that random luck.

I don't think you can generate a calculator with 100% guarantees due to all the random events that occur (random dodges, random attacks, etc) but if you know how "close" you are with the straight up calculation simulator, you can decide for your self how much you want to allow for a reasonable margin of safety.

A side not to OP in case I'm mistaken: Sometimes I get obsessed with details so don't take them as criticisms or anything. In any case. Great work! Thanks for providing a very much needed calculator!

[Meepo]

That, I usually think evens out because your knights sometimes perform random special attacks, and then the boss also performs random special attacks. So rather than simulating it, you can just probably consider that random luck.

I don't think you can generate a calculator with 100% guarantees due to all the random events that occur (random dodges, random attacks, etc) but if you know how "close" you are with the straight up calculation simulator, you can decide for your self how much you want to allow for a reasonable margin of safety.

A side not to OP in case I'm mistaken: Sometimes I get obsessed with details so don't take them as criticisms or anything. In any case. Great work! Thanks for providing a very much needed calculator!

Wouldn't some misses be considered "worse" than others? Missing on a knight that has a single element advantage is not as bad as missing on a knight that has a double advantage, especially if the boss has non-adjacent elements.

Similarly, if a boss does a special against a knight who has a double advantage, it's a lot more devastating than if he did one against a knight who has a single advantage.

[Oyster]

It's a great start! Thanks for this!

Are you open to refining this?

There also seems to be a "capping limit" - that is, if your friend knights have substantially strong stats compared to your knights, then his ability to help you is also capped.

For example:
Your friend knight's hit points are capped, and it's a function of your maximum hit points of your knights (so... if you are below lv 100, you will not get the full 607 hit points). I wish I could recall the relationship but it's been a while since I've surpassed level 100, so I can't really derive this function. I think it may just have been a direct relationship - your friend's hit points is equal to its hit point or your strongest knight's hit point, whichever is less).

Your friend knight's ability to attack and defend is also capped, and it is a function of the stats of your strongest knight. I don't have enough data for this, but it seems to me that if there is a big gap (say 500 pts or above) between my attack and my defense stats, the friends' stats get capped and their ability to help gets compromised.

Definitely! I'm trying to refine this further and still try to get some ideas how to do that. Currently this is supposedly to answer the 'minimum viable team'. It does not take into account 'best scenarios' or 'worst scenarios'.

ooo, Capping limit? I'll take note into that. Currently I'm lvl 100+ so I can't really test those. The damage calculation is currently based on the lvl 100+ from the post by BethMo.

[Oyster]

Good point :) Maybe a separate box that tells you how many dodges you can afford? :) That should be a good indicator of how much wiggle room you have

I like this idea!. I'll think of someway to incorporate that :D. I'd like to actually try include further critical by bosses. figuring out 'wiggle room' I think is a great idea to do it.

[Oyster]

Maybe after taking dodges, crits and special attacks into account, you can make it simulate 100 battles or so and it will tell you how many were won and how many were lost.

that sounds pretty good. I might check it out to see if I can simulate these stuff. If anyone can help with the probability number to put for these, it'd help greatly.

[Sakino]

Honestly...
Saying that the boss hit hard the same times of knights, the two factors vanish, cause is like "+4 -4 =0"
The same as above for dodges. But i may suggest to add a little box whit a safety number of misses you can do. Like "i would beat the boss if the miss differences between me and the boss is no more than three misses more for me"
Ecept that, epic job guy, i congratulate whit you.

[Meepo]

that sounds pretty good. I might check it out to see if I can simulate these stuff. If anyone can help with the probability number to put for these, it'd help greatly.

You should just get any forumers willing to help to count the number of attacks, misses and crits each time they battle the EB. I was planning to count mine but I forgot this time since I woke up in the middle of the night to fight it.

How do special attacks work? Does the boss have a special attack bar similar to ours?

[EljayK]

Why not just add a box with the amount of damage each knight does and the total hp left over of the boss after the 'win,' and let people do simple deduction themselves?

[EljayK]

Also I can't use it. I'm on level 56, his attack is 1933, but the spreadsheet has a "?" after the number, and it won't calculate. I'm assuming it's because the value isn't verified. I'm verifying it now, level 56 is 1933 attack.

[Oyster]

Also I can't use it. I'm on level 56, his attack is 1933, but the spreadsheet has a "?" after the number, and it won't calculate. I'm assuming it's because the value isn't verified. I'm verifying it now, level 56 is 1933 attack.

Thanks so much for that! currently the spreadsheet is based on lvl 100+. it is one of the weakness.

Can you tell me the armor you are using, attack and element? and the epic boss level?

[Lii]

Sweet, looks good Oyster.

I made something with the similar purpose some time ago:
Epic boss battle calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As8tTdFx1BUkdEdaeFR6d1dHMGF1SXlMdGFwMjlFM Gc&usp=sharing)

You might have already seen it, but if not it might give you something to compare too and get idea what and what not to do :)

Happy hunting!

[Oyster]

Thanks so much for that! currently the spreadsheet is based on lvl 100+. it is one of the weakness.

Can you tell me the armor you are using, attack and element? and the epic boss level?

oops, never mind for that. I've changed the ? so it'll calculate properly. I thought you were mentioning lvl 56 on your knights lvl.

[Musketeer]

You should just get any forumers willing to help to count the number of attacks, misses and crits each time they battle the EB. I was planning to count mine but I forgot this time since I woke up in the middle of the night to fight it.

How do special attacks work? Does the boss have a special attack bar similar to ours?

The boss does seem to have a special attack meter that fills with 4 hits, but like our knights, can also pull a special hit, or a miss, out of the bag at random. The boss will always special if on low HP and you're coming back for a second go.
I used to calculate carefully for each boss using a spreadsheet, but these days I just have a feel for when I need to add or change a knight.

[EljayK]

The boss does seem to have a special attack meter that fills with 4 hits, but like our knights, can also pull a special hit, or a miss, out of the bag at random. The boss will always special if on low HP and you're coming back for a second go.
I used to calculate carefully for each boss using a spreadsheet, but these days I just have a feel for when I need to add or change a knight.

Ditto. I have a set rotation I use, based on total power, where I just upgrade to the next when one doesn't seem enough for next go:

Just main
Minion and Main
Main and Friend
Minion/Minion/Main
Minion/Main/Friend
Main/Friend/Friend
Minion/Minion/Main/Friend
Minion/Main/Friend/Friend
Minion/Minion/Main/Friend/Friend

I haven't had to split attacks in a long time, so I don't know where I'd weigh in 5/2 or 3/4.

Also: Epic Boss at level 57 stats: 1959/660

[Oyster]

The boss does seem to have a special attack meter that fills with 4 hits, but like our knights, can also pull a special hit, or a miss, out of the bag at random. The boss will always special if on low HP and you're coming back for a second go.
I used to calculate carefully for each boss using a spreadsheet, but these days I just have a feel for when I need to add or change a knight.

that's interesting to know. I'm working on the updated version to include critical, misses. It is still very limited, but hopefully it'll give a good image on how the battle would go.

what spreadsheet did you used to calculate?

[phenom_]

I built a webapp that does something to this effect as well. But hopefully a bit more friendly than a spreadsheet.

http://www.uzrbin.com/sim.html

[Oyster]

I built a webapp that does something to this effect as well. But hopefully a bit more friendly than a spreadsheet.

http://www.uzrbin.com/sim.html

That looks really good!. your javascript skills sir, are off the chart :D.

[phenom_]

Much obliged. I think the damage is a bit off for lvl < 100. And I've been meaning to get around to adding crits and misses too, if anyone has any idea what the percentages are like on those I'd love to know.

[Oyster]

Much obliged. I think the damage is a bit off for lvl < 100. And I've been meaning to get around to adding crits and misses too, if anyone has any idea what the percentages are like on those I'd love to know.

Same with my calculations. I was actually thinking of creating another one similar for normal battle. But it seems you've already done it :).
I've just finished the V2 with more data and suggestions from other forum members here.

Added critical, misses, and actually managed to create a simulation.
Epic Boss Simulator V2 (http://tinyurl.com/p6w5c3h)

Changes are:

Rounded up / down damage
7% chance of misses
20% chance of critical (both knights and boss)
Added Knights level, which links to their health
Knights critical damage every 4 turns
Random simulation generator (Press Ctrl - R)
Added final result of knights and boss status

[Spongie]

Same with my calculations. I was actually thinking of creating another one similar for normal battle. But it seems you've already done it :).
I've just finished the V2 with more data and suggestions from other forum members here.

Added critical, misses, and actually managed to create a simulation.
Epic Boss Simulator V2 (http://tinyurl.com/p6w5c3h)

Changes are:

Rounded up / down damage
7% chance of misses
20% chance of critical (both knights and boss)
Added Knights level, which links to their health
Knights critical damage every 4 turns
Random simulation generator (Press Ctrl - R)
Added final result of knights and boss status


looks good maybe make an option on 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th to turn it off.. so you can see on lvl 20 if you can make it with 1knight or you need 2? and also calc. the 0/25/50/75/100% dmg bonus by adding them

[Oyster]

looks good maybe make an option on 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th to turn it off.. so you can see on lvl 20 if you can make it with 1knight or you need 2? and also calc. the 0/25/50/75/100% dmg bonus by adding them

Thanks for noticing that!

Just fixed it.
Enter 0 for attack and defense. It'll means that the knights is not being used.
Same as knight 4 and 5. enter 0 health for knight 4 and 5 as well.

It is actually already taking into account the 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100% addition damage depending on the knight.

[StMichael]

Does this spreadsheet work for minions too? Also, right now, we have no idea what the percentages are for criticals and misses? Are they totally random or linked somehow to attack, defence or whatever stats we might have missed out?

[Oyster]

Does this spreadsheet work for minions too? Also, right now, we have no idea what the percentages are for criticals and misses? Are they totally random or linked somehow to attack, defence or whatever stats we might have missed out?

Currently it's specifically geared only for the epic bosses (I'm assuming you mean by minions are the enemies in pve levels?). Current spreadsheet uses 7% chance of miss and 20% chance of critical. Knights critical uses 20% chance, also does critical once after every 4 rounds. I don't know if there is any link to stats. It's a good question though.

[Meepo]

You are making great progress with this spreadsheet. Where did you get the 7% miss and 20% crit assumptions from?

[Oyster]

You are making great progress with this spreadsheet. Where did you get the 7% miss and 20% crit assumptions from?

Thanks for the compliment! any suggestion to improve this are welcome.
Just by playing, trial and error...
At first, I put in was 20% / 20%.
But then, I notice the misses are far less than that. Sure sometimes it might seems alot, but again, we're talking probability of each attack. I notice than it's bit less than 10% but more than 5%. hence 7%.

As for the critical, it's definitely more than 10%. When I did some testing, I just feels that 20% is the sweet spot for crits.

In this area, any inputs are definitely welcome.

[Erfel OP]

Ehmmm... oyster, did you see my 2 pms? :rolleyes:

[Oyster]

Ehmmm... oyster, did you see my 2 pms? :rolleyes:
Just replied :D

[sawoo]

Hi Guys,

V2 of this battle simulation is out. Epic Boss Simulator V2 (http://tinyurl.com/p6w5c3h)

~ Oyster

Well done bro great simulator will use this for every eb fight.

[bosskiller]

How do we use it?

Are you taking the percent increase per extra knights into account?

[Oyster]

How do we use it?

Are you taking the percent increase per extra knights into account?

Yes. The damage calculation is based on Theorycrafter (BethMo) works.
I've added a quick usage guide in the spreadsheet.

[bosskiller]

Tried to use it, but doesn't seem to be working. What is wrong with this spreadsheet?

https://docs.google.com/a/warrinerschools.org/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As5cnlInbKBZdGxvcHZ3T3VHMENhdG9XcFhYenF5T FE#gid=1