Upcoming guild war is totally pointless unless you are one of the top 10 guilds.

[Daenerys]

Otherwise, it's Jackalope and Spectral Captain for everyone else, LOL.

What's the point when you can get way better armors from the storyline and weekly boss (regular, not + version).

Is this an incentive to get guilds to spend tons of gems for a top 10 spot?

[madfighters]

Probably
On a similar note hoe long is the war

[NoGrip61]

Where are you seeing this information??? Please post a link or screenshot.

[Lord Of The Infernal]

Spectral Captain -.-

[Daenerys]

There is a guild war pop up on Android. Sorry, don't know how to post pics here.

Top 10 guilds get new water / spirit epic, Soulshard Necromantle.

Edited to add more details:

#1: Soulshard Necromantle+
#2 - #10: Soulshard Necromantle
#11 - #25: Jackalope Chaingarb+
#26 - #100: Jackalope Chaingarb
#101 - #250: 2x Spectral Captain+

So glad the Spectral Captain is at least a +, LOL.

[bosskiller]

Ha ha.... water and spirit. No wonder Moontide is fusable again.

[Necromancers]

Kicking people who've recently fused Moontide in the teeth.
Heh. Should've seen it coming.

[Lord Of The Infernal]

Ha ha.... water and spirit. No wonder Moontide is fusable again.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

[ZERO_07]

Jackelopes Chaingarb as runner up prizes. Really Gree? How hard was it to do Clayplate?

[nachomasterx]

They could at least make the prizes outside of the top 10 sort of good. Gree has no idea what anything in this game actually does. I think they just look at elements and stars. Could we get an intelligent company to run this game? I guess if you can't make top 10 this war isn't even worth fighting.

[Necromancers]

They could at least make the prizes outside of the top 10 sort of good. Gree has no idea what anything in this game actually does. I think they just look at elements and stars. Could we get an intelligent company to run this game? I guess if you can't make top 10 this war isn't even worth fighting.

Yep. Getting rank 101 and rank 1000 for me are the exact same armor rewards. 2x Enhancement Fodder.
The only difference are the amount of Stones, Gold and one Dark Prince Key (most likely gonna give 1-star armor). Well, at least it's something ._.

[NoGrip61]

Any fusion stones or boost armors to go with these lousy armor prizes? I don't see any ads/news on the IOS game yet. I assume, based on the selection that it's not a weekend war? 24hr? Or maybe I'm being too optimistic -__-

[Justx]

Kicking people who've recently fused Moontide in the teeth.
Heh. Should've seen it coming.
Ha ha.... water and spirit. No wonder Moontide is fusable again.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Couldn't agree more.

[Marco_]

Any fusion stones or boost armors to go with these lousy armor prizes? I don't see any ads/news on the IOS game yet. I assume, based on the selection that it's not a weekend war? 24hr? Or maybe I'm being too optimistic -__-
I doubt 1 day war will give an Epic as prize...
Oddly enough. it seems to start a day early compared to the previous 3 day war.

edit:
top 100: boosts, DPC keys, gems
101-250: DPC key
101-5000: fusion stones

[Daenerys]

Any fusion stones or boost armors to go with these lousy armor prizes? I don't see any ads/news on the IOS game yet. I assume, based on the selection that it's not a weekend war? 24hr? Or maybe I'm being too optimistic -__-

Don't know how long the war is, but it starts on a Thursday, Oct. 10.

Top 100 guilds get various number of water fusion boost armors. Below 100 gets various number of fusion stones.

There are also some DP keyps thrown in, just in case Spectral Captain+ is not bad enough, and you also want some 1-star armors, LOL.

[Justx]

Most wars with Epics last for 3 days from what I can remember.

And wow this war just sucks.

[bosskiller]

I wish it said how long it is... Would really like to know. Finished 20th in last war, guild is much stronger now and could possibly get in top 10.

[FlipDaddy]

Would anyone mind throwing us iOS users a bone and posting a pic of the banner?

[Avengers]

Would anyone mind throwing us iOS users a bone and posting a pic of the banner?
What he said. :-)

[Replicatorz]

What a bunch of useless crap. Guess buying guardians really is a waste of money. Going to end up using all 30 lvl 4 guardians we have to finish somewhere between jakalope and spectral capt+..... I can farm the mats for spec with one round of knight.

[bosskiller]

What a bunch of useless crap. Guess buying guardians really is a waste of money. Going to end up using all 30 lvl 4 guardians we have to finish somewhere between jakalope and spectral capt+..... I can farm the mats for spec with one round of knight.
e

They are good if you have a guild purchase challenge :)

[Marco_]

screenshots:
4581458245834584

[FlipDaddy]

Thanks Marco_ !



And ew...

[Stooboot]

All the rewards suck for this battle, another spirit epic for top 10, a legendary armor for 11- 50 thats completely useless considering they just put out a boss with the same elements that has better stats that most players can get for free and last and least the Spectral Captain, a craftable armor. Honestly gree we know that customer service isn't your strong suit but damnnn u suck

[KOA]

Whatever happened to water/fire and rock/air or fire/rock?

[Synovia]

Whatever happened to water/fire and rock/air or fire/rock?

I think they're trying to replace moonplate... but yea, Water/Fire and Rock/Air have been mysteriously absent from the epic bosses for a long time.

[forcefed4door]

I'm selling,all my guardians so I can get some gold back haha. Would hate to waste them for nothing on,this war. If your not in top ten guild, this Is a pointless war. Hopefully gree will see alot,less gem,spending,and,get it right next,time.

[KOA]

I think the feedback wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if they added Clayplate+ and Clayplate into the mix

[Justx]

That epic looks grossly overpowered, or is that just me?

[Synovia]

The non+ has 3156 points.

Forgestone has 3170 (1649/1521).

With the staggered elements, and less points than Forgestone, and less balance than forgestone, I'd say its significantly weaker than the last one.

[Justx]

Okay thanks.

[EljayK]

It's almost physically painful to see the rewards, and simultaneously think about what it will take to get to 25.

I foresee two options. The first; everyone and their mother pushes hard for top 10. (By everyone I mean all the top 20 previous guilds who could justifiably have a shot.) The second; No one pushes hard except the normal 11/12 and the total war points drop from 11 million to 2 million, because that's all it will take to stay in the lead without anyone else trying.

I hate to admit it, but I foresee a lot more of the first than the second. Probably a mix of both. Top 11 pushing harder than normal, the rest of top 25 caring much less. All it will do is jump the gap between 11/12.

[600RR]

Why anyone thinks they are owed a better armour than Jackalope because they aren't top 10 bemuses me.

This generation sucks, where did this sense of entitlement come from and why do no one think they should have to work to achieve anymore?

[Harbear]

Otherwise, it's Jackalope and Spectral Captain for everyone else, LOL.

What's the point when you can get way better armors from the storyline and weekly boss (regular, not + version).

Is this an incentive to get guilds to spend tons of gems for a top 10 spot?

I think this is spot on. The top 50 or so guilds that have added a few more players are probably all going for top 10. I remember there being a very large point drop off around rank 15 in the last 3 day war and I'm sure many people are unaware of this.

Good luck to everyone though.

[Synovia]

Why anyone thinks they are owed a better armour than Jackalope because they aren't top 10 bemuses me.

This generation sucks, where did this sense of entitlement come from and why do no one think they should have to work to achieve anymore?

What the hell does this have to do with anything other than you being a whiny ass?

People won't compete in a contest unless you give them something to win. Its like expecting people to work for free.

[Joshx135]

If iOS is lucky enough to not have this war I may cry....

[Hildigam]

Why anyone thinks they are owed a better armour than Jackalope because they aren't top 10 bemuses me.

This generation sucks, where did this sense of entitlement come from and why do no one think they should have to work to achieve anymore?

What? The current epic boss is better than jack. So there is no sense of entitlement at all, it is common sense. If you can gem enough to get t25 you could gem to get to 43 on the epic boss. So at that point they are gemming for fusion armors which even RR didnt do last fusion war.

And the fact they could have easily changed element combos to not repeat is just common sense. We dont have all the element combos and we already have 2 repeats with this.

[Paladineguru]

So many epics being released, and all I got in the Chest was a crap 2*

T-shirts sold in gree lobby

Milk em for guild war or bust

At least in first epic war they waited two weeks to make ribbon A GB+ obsolete with AoB+

[FlipDaddy]

IMO, it comes down to the Pareto Principle, which applied here would mean that 20% of the people spend 80% of the money. Though I'd suspect it's closer to 5/95 (just a guess though).

If Gree increases the gap between 10th and 11th place, then the top 15-20 teams, who are likely spenders anyway will surely spend a bit more to ensure they finish in the top 10 to get the armor worth having. Any lower than 20th or so and the guild probably isn't spending a significant amount anyway...most likely just burning regenerated energy. So Gree gets the spenders to spend more and tosses a consolation prize to everyone else.

Also, a lot of people were asking for more stratification in the reward tiers. So no matter what approach they take, Gree is sure to leave some people unhappy.

[Eunuchorn]

Actually, the upcoming guild war is just straight up pointless for #1 down. Most of my team spends MINIMUM 800 gems per war. Yet, we still only get ~150 gems worth of keys & ...gems.

Fix your reward system Gree. It's crap. You know it as well as the community. Typical Corporatocracy spitting in the face of the people propping it up.

[Eunuchorn]

What the hell does this have to do with anything other than you being a whiny ass?

People won't compete in a contest unless you give them something to win. Its like expecting people to work for free.

If you weren't sure, the worlds sort of in a debt crisis. We do work for free.

[Rafa]

I like the rewards for top 10. Especially for first place.

Despite not being consecutive elements, it has solid stats (highest so far) and I reckon it will be very useful.

Also, people will always complain.

1 - If this war fire + earth or fire + air , people would say complain last GW had a fire epic.

2 - Anything with spirit will have people complaining about spirit, just like in this topic

3 - Anything with earth will have people claiming its useless with so many spirit epics (unless fire, but then again, moontide, a fusable epic, would give it a tough time with double bonus, along with people complaining about 1)

I am guessing fire + water or even Water + earth with different EB would be the best choices, but this isn't as bad as people are making it look like. Really looking forward this armor.

[nachomasterx]

I wonder if gree is testing out how bad they can make prizes before they start loosing money. If my guild didn't have a really good shot at top 10 I wouldn't participate in this massive waste of time. Honestly if this trend of prizes continues it may ruin this game altogether.

[gardibolt]

Having been in a top 25 guild last time I have to say I would not spend a single gem on this war. The rewards for 11 down are laughably awful. Why would I spend money to get armor not as good as the current boss?

[nachomasterx]

I don't know why they couldn't create new legendary and ultra rare prizes for war. They make a new epic, but recycle a bunch of old trash for the ribbon prizes. If they created new 3* and 4* prizes with at least semi competitive stats, everyone would feel like they earned an exclusive and unique prize, even if it wasn't an epic.

[Eunuchorn]

All of the other games have been getting major overhauls in exponential stat increase, raid bosses, kill/collection guild quests, CC #1 guild just got their first truly passive reward (free bank deposits). I'm sure they're building a long term equivalent for Kandy, but they will wait until 6 months or more worth of content is ready & until then use this crap cookie cutter reward scheme.

My main point is to heavily increase the gem & key reward until then.

Creating new armors is a huge art design & implementation process.
Jack+ isn't terrible, was missed by a good number of people (especially those who couldn't get 43 at the time) & you want multiple of each element combo for epic bosses. I see why they wouldn't do CP/+, it's too powerful to give to the masses still. & of course they wouldn't give away current boss armor. As for spectral captain, well that's probably the reality of the amount of nonspenders/non forum users there are in most Kandy guilds

[gardibolt]

If you're going to give out an old boss armor, why not Jian's? People have been crying for fire /water and it is old enough it wouldn't unbalance things.

[-Solo-]

They gave out Guardians+ and Combustion+/SG+...there's no such thing as not giving out powerful armors to the masses anymore.

[Paladineguru]

Jack + is terrible, boss armor is only going up making it even more useless. At least guardians bg + went two weeks before bear eclipsed it, and even then it was worth it due to stat slant, this week's boss has 200+ on the ribbon A. There's better odds from chests
Than from spending on this war.

[shawnk]

Why anyone thinks they are owed a better armour than Jackalope because they aren't top 10 bemuses me.

This generation sucks, where did this sense of entitlement come from and why do no one think they should have to work to achieve anymore?

one of the most idiotic things I have ever read. why would anyone want to get something that's worth their effort bemuses me 2 man. u r so smart. u old school u lmao

[shawnk]

im thinking about quitting this game as well truly its pointless and I rank top 250 in the arena and have an epic but the more u think about it. this game is getting to the point that its a waste of time unless u spend a lot. the gap has just gotten too big. They need to put all the epics in the fusion table so others have a shot and don't lose interest. If u have to take tectonic out because its a 100 percent fusable but others should be fusable

[possum]

Have to hand it to them, they are smart and greedy and you top guilds will open up your wallets on this one.

Watch the top 20 guilds roll over each other trying to secure a top 10 spot. This war is all or nothing and they did so on purpose.

Have fun while the rest of us pretty much sits this one out. Thank you for financing this game for us.

[shawnk]

Have to hand it to them, they are smart and greedy and you top guilds will open up your wallets on this one.

Watch the top 20 guilds roll over each other trying to secure a top 10 spot. This war is all or nothing and they did so on purpose.

Have fun while the rest of us pretty much sits this one out. Thank you for financing this game for us.
so true lol we r thinking of just saving up our pets. whats the point. its just wasting them and its going to be comical watching the top 20 trying to outspend each other lmao I think they are probably going to make it 15 gem to refill the energy on this war as well causing them to spend more lmao

[forcefed4door]

You guys are right, the big gem spenders are really gonna spend some gems on this war. Hopefully they got some decent OT to afford the extra couple hundred dollars they will each spend lol.

[shawnk]

btw first I have to see if we can remove the pets lol 2nd this game has already become broken with all these epics because people can farm unlimitedly by just fighting the epic stage on dark kingdom. If I can go through that stage 3 times people that have a bunch of epics can keep going through it because they will lvl up lol. maybe that's why they are not introducing another water epic who knows lol

[RevzZ]

I guess I could come back to this game in a year or two and just fuse a seven star armor with no trouble at all. And still be underpowered. Hopefully this game won't still be here in year or two. The rewards system is completely ridiculous. Maybe they can replace Jackalope and Spectral with Capes, Wings or we'll even be happy if they replace it with fusion boost armors. Fusion boost armors are ALWAYS useful.

[shukai84]

oh man...u must be joking man....giving water and spirit again?and ur dumb rewards are jack+ and sc? OMG GREEE..wake up ur idea and start reading the forum threads for ONCE.

GIVE BETTER REWARDS AND USE BETTER ELEMENTS FOR EPIC. God sake.

[possum]

Here's the thing that I don't believe a lot of you realize yet and it has happened in every Gree game that I've played in, and it's happening now.

Most people who are big spenders want to reach a point where they can beat anyone. They think that if they drop enough nickels now, that they won't have to later. Wrong.

Inflation degrades everything and the dollars you spend now will be absolutely worthless later. In other words, that $500 bucks you just spent to get that armor will be obsolete in a few months. You have to keep spending in perpetuity.

The only real winners are those that don't spend and are content with their place in the game, or those that quit.

I know Gree's bag of tricks, their M.O., their play book and it's unfolding here just like it has in all of their other games that pit us against each other.

This isn't the first war where there's no "second place," no consolation prize. It's happened before.

They know that those guilds just on the fringes of being top 10 (and who spent their way there) will soon realize that at that point there's no return, they have to make that investment that they used to get to that position payoff, so they spend more and every guild near that threshold will keep spending and spending to keep what they already invested in.

Good luck.

[leale]

As a likely top 25-50, but not top 10 guild, I now won't be buying the 800 gems I'd planned to blow on this war for a bit of fun; however with this genius move from GREE I dare say fringing top 10 guild will certainly kick in my share.

As much as the feeling of having a voice by complaining on the forums may make people feel better, it won't change things, the nature of the KnD player base allows it to get drawn into the not-so-silent auction for epics. The best part of this auction for GREE is that everyone who bids pays, win or lose. The only way to change how gree does business is to not bid, but let's be honest there's enough suckers out there that gree's model will work perfectly and will likely become the standard. You just have to look at my equip to know I'm a sucker in this game also.

[shawnk]

Here's the thing that I don't believe a lot of you realize yet and it has happened in every Gree game that I've played in, and it's happening now.

Most people who are big spenders want to reach a point where they can beat anyone. They think that if they drop enough nickels now, that they won't have to later. Wrong.

Inflation degrades everything and the dollars you spend now will be absolutely worthless later. In other words, that $500 bucks you just spent to get that armor will be obsolete in a few months. You have to keep spending in perpetuity.

The only real winners are those that don't spend and are content with their place in the game, or those that quit.

I know Gree's bag of tricks, their M.O., their play book and it's unfolding here just like it has in all of their other games that pit us against each other.

This isn't the first war where's there no "second place," no consolation prize. It's happened before. They know that those guilds just on the fringes of being top 10 (and who spent their way there) knows that at that point, there's no return, they have to make that investment that they used to get to that position payoff so they spend more and every guild near that threshold will keep spending and spending to keep what they already invested in.

Good luck.
and the best thing of it is that these people don't even know how much they are spending because ones they spend and are invested heavily in the war they will just spend and spend lmao. im actually going to enjoy watching this war. I bet the creators just sit around and just laugh at the fools who are going to be spending hard lol. to make it even more funny they are going to release armors that will devalue their purchase in a couple of months. lol its genius. the only bad part about their business is that they are going to be losing people left and right and its going to be just only a few people left playing the game (people in the top 100 guilds) while all the others will lose interest and find new games. The only thing holding me to this game is we got a fun guild specially during the wars but there is no reward for playing the game which is not even that addicting. Its easy to lose interest in the game itself I mean I have an epic and im in top 250 but everytime I play i see how pointless the game is.

[shawnk]

As a likely top 25-50, but not top 10 guild, I now won't be buying the 800 gems I'd planned to blow on this war for a bit of fun; however with this genius move from GREE I dare say fringing top 10 guild will certainly kick in my share.

As much as the feeling of having a voice by complaining on the forums may make people feel better, it won't change things, the nature of the KnD player base allows it to get drawn into the not-so-silent auction for epics. The best part of this auction for GREE is that everyone who bids pays, win or lose. The only way to change how gree does business is to not bid, but let's be honest there's enough suckers out there that gree's model will work perfectly and will likely become the standard. You just have to look at my equip to know I'm a sucker in this game also.
its basically exploiting human nature. People with money will blow it on anything and causes competition. I mean im not against paying money and using it on something that's fun for u. I mean if u go out on a date these days it costs more than 100 dollars but at least u make a memory something that's priceless but this here is foolish lol. im glad I didn't invest in this game. I usually don't invest on something like this until after analyzing what kind of game it is and this was just a foolish investment for a lot of people. that being said im not attacking anyone just saying it like how I see it. just my 2 cents. everyone has their opinions.

[Brutal1977]

...we'll even be happy if they replace it with fusion boost...

Gree: Fashion boots? We can do that! They'll look odd like the capes, and give no stat boost... but you will want them and pay gems! buymoargemsplz!!11!lmao!

In all seriousness, it would be nice to see the revenue this game generates, i.e. when gems are bought, what they are used on, war vs DPC vs special event chest, etc... Whatever it looks like, I imagine it's nothing at all like I imagine.

[drygores]

Lol, now its a 4 day war to. MORE SPENDING!

[McRay]

This war is nothing but a scheme to extract more money from the heavy spenders.

It's sad to watch, but honestly if you're dumb enough to spend money on a MOBILE GAME that takes not even 1% of the resources to support as something like WoW, then you deserve to be milked over and over again until you come to your senses.

This pay to win business model will go down in history as one of the most fascinating concepts in economics. These companies have found a way to trick people into spending money on things that have literally no value. $100 for a few gems? Think about what you can buy with $100 in today's world. Spending that kind of money on some virtual currency that will give you a fleeting advantage in a dinky little mobile game, is the height of stupidity.

[Sparkle_DPA]

This war is nothing but a scheme to extract more money from the heavy spenders.

It's sad to watch, but honestly if you're dumb enough to spend money on a MOBILE GAME that takes not even 1% of the resources to support as something like WoW, then you deserve to be milked over and over again until you come to your senses.

This pay to win business model will go down in history as one of the most fascinating concepts in economics. These companies have found a way to trick people into spending money on things that have literally no value. $100 for a few gems? Think about what you can buy with $100 in today's world. Spending that kind of money on some virtual currency that will give you a fleeting advantage in a dinky little mobile game, is the height of stupidity.

Im gonna spend over $500. does that make u angry!!!!???

[McRay]

Im gonna spend over $500. does that make u angry!!!!???

lol why would I be angry that you're dumb enough to be exploited? If anything I feel pity for you, and sadness that I live in a world where this business model can actually be successful.

10 years ago, before the rise of modern consoles, if a game developer tried to make you pay even $1 over the retail price for anything less than a FULL EXPANSION of the game, they'd be laughed right out of the industry.

I suppose gamers back then just had more common sense. Any imbecile can operate a smartphone and download an app, so this is what we've come to.

For the amount of money these fools are spending on this game, I could purchase an XBOX One, a PS4, a brand new gaming PC, and every single quality game on the market which would give me thousands of hours of enjoyment. But nah, I'd rather buy some gems so that I can have the best armor in some stupid phone game for about a week.

[busteroaf]

This war is nothing but a scheme to extract more money from the heavy spenders.

It's sad to watch, but honestly if you're dumb enough to spend money on a MOBILE GAME that takes not even 1% of the resources to support as something like WoW, then you deserve to be milked over and over again until you come to your senses.

This pay to win business model will go down in history as one of the most fascinating concepts in economics. These companies have found a way to trick people into spending money on things that have literally no value. $100 for a few gems? Think about what you can buy with $100 in today's world. Spending that kind of money on some virtual currency that will give you a fleeting advantage in a dinky little mobile game, is the height of stupidity.

It seems dumb yes. The amount people spend monthly could be a car payment for some, a phone bill for others, new shoes for a kid... but what people spend their money on is clearly none of your business, nor should it matter to you. Yes, its a virtual world and people spend crazy amounts of money. What about people who've played MMO's for years at $15/month. How much have they spent? Not to mention the time they've invested vs a game where you can play for a few minutes and you're done. Which is worse? I bet you get a fat gut playing wow vs playing this game. Any bets?

I spent $100 on a new pair of running shoes. I already have 3 pair. Did I NEED that? No, I WANTED it. I have the money to do so, so I did. Can I turn back around and use those shoes to pay my phone bill? Are you going to call me an idiot because I liked the yellow Nike Free Run+ 3's vs the cheap walmart knock off Nike's? What people chose to spend their money on is their business.

Granted, I understand the concept, and yeah, they trick me time after time, but I also control when I buy and when I don't buy. They've never put a gun to my head, and I've willingly spent money in an effort to better position myself within the game. I don't complain when I buy gems for a chest, knowing its a lottery, and get nothing. I'm the only one to blame. I made that decision. When people ***** about it and complain, that is what pisses me off. I could care less what you, the guy next to you, the people in other guilds do with their money. Just don't ***** about it after you've clicked the "okay" button and confirmed your purchase.

[shawnk]

Im gonna spend over $500. does that make u angry!!!!???

u spending 500 dollars doesn't make him angry or anyone in fact I want u to do it. its comical in my opinion. we all make our own choices lol just like the guy that spend 3k on candy crush and went broke because he was sucked into the scheme like u guys lol. they guy who posted the massage above u made intelligent comment why would u attack him lol. that shows insecurity or lack of thought process on ur part. much <3 this article was posted by someone its worth a read for everyone. I read it on here as well. I wish I had become a programmer instead of studying dentistry because it seems to be paying a lot more than what im going to be making. People don't understand the value of money anymore. I guess since a lot of people are grown up spoon fed they lose sight of things that truly matter in life and the things that they can do to make a difference.

[Sparkle_DPA]

dam i didnt know i could make people angry just by one sentence, lol. I said this before, but even though gree is making the game more P2W everyday(and i agree its going a bit too far), they are not as bad in comparison to some other game companies. In fact, the companies im talking about would make gree look like a bunch of kids begging for nickels and dimes so dont go putting TOO much blame on them.

[shawnk]

It seems dumb yes. The amount people spend monthly could be a car payment for some, a phone bill for others, new shoes for a kid... but what people spend their money on is clearly none of your business, nor should it matter to you. Yes, its a virtual world and people spend crazy amounts of money. What about people who've played MMO's for years at $15/month. How much have they spent? Not to mention the time they've invested vs a game where you can play for a few minutes and you're done. Which is worse? I bet you get a fat gut playing wow vs playing this game. Any bets?

I spent $100 on a new pair of running shoes. I already have 3 pair. Did I NEED that? No, I WANTED it. I have the money to do so, so I did. Can I turn back around and use those shoes to pay my phone bill? Are you going to call me an idiot because I liked the yellow Nike Free Run+ 3's vs the cheap walmart knock off Nike's? What people chose to spend their money on is their business.

Granted, I understand the concept, and yeah, they trick me time after time, but I also control when I buy and when I don't buy. They've never put a gun to my head, and I've willingly spent money in an effort to better position myself within the game. I don't complain when I buy gems for a chest, knowing its a lottery, and get nothing. I'm the only one to blame. I made that decision. When people ***** about it and complain, that is what pisses me off. I could care less what you, the guy next to you, the people in other guilds do with their money. Just don't ***** about it after you've clicked the "okay" button and confirmed your purchase.
and that's the thing lol. u have the right to do what u want just like he can express his opinion but I wish i knew that people were like this these days lol and became a programmer so i could exploit u guys but i guess i didn't even see that coming. I look at these games just like science. Humans are easily exploited because of our nature of being competitive. it truly is a beautiful science to study.

[shawnk]

dam i didnt know i could make people angry just by one sentence, lol. I said this before, but even though gree is making the game more P2W everyday(and i agree its going a bit too far), they are not as bad in comparison to some other game companies. In fact, the companies im talking about would make gree look like a bunch of kids begging for nickels and dimes.
so true. im not even talking about this game. all games are now like this. ea makes people open cards making millions. no one its angry lol infact u need to read to see if anyone is angry. i like it lol. its actually an amazing thing what companies are doing now. i enjoy it :). its like studying humans. its a science lol

[-Solo-]

Are you going to call me an idiot because I liked the yellow Nike Free Run+ 3's vs the cheap walmart knock off Nike's?

Yes, because they are both plain and outdated.

But so are my Air Pegasus 28s, but who's asking. :)

[Eunuchorn]

Here's some perspective for you:

US Prison Industrial Complex 10-year cost to US taxpayers: $4 billion dollars (now ask yourself how much is being made in profits)

Estimated 10-year cost to END WORLD HUNGER: $3 billion dollars

The 7 walmart heirs are worth more than the bottom ~30% of the us population.

The system can't go on much longer. I will miss K&D far more than BOA, C, WF, MS etc

Please, just stop voting.

[McRay]

I spent $100 on a new pair of running shoes. I already have 3 pair. Did I NEED that? No, I WANTED it. I have the money to do so, so I did. Can I turn back around and use those shoes to pay my phone bill? Are you going to call me an idiot because I liked the yellow Nike Free Run+ 3's vs the cheap walmart knock off Nike's? What people chose to spend their money on is their business.

I understand what you're getting at, and to a certain extent, I agree with you. What people spend their money on is their business, not mine. But your running shoe comparison is not logical, and here's why:

When I walk into a shoe store, there is literally 50 different shoes up on the wall for me to choose from. They will range in price from $30 to $200, and it is up to me which one I want to spend my money on. As a consumer, I am aware that the listed price is related to the quality of the shoe, where it was made, and quite often the brand name to which it is attached.

In terms of being ripped off in that situation, at the very worst, I spend $200 for some Nike basketball shoe with air bubbles or whatever in the sole. This shoe, although possibly overpriced, is not a PIECE OF TRASH. In terms of quality, when you put that $200 shoe next to the $30 shoe, it will come out on top in every single category. On top of being a quality product, I get the added benefit of the name brand, which makes me feel good about myself, and superior to others (hypothetically speaking). I can walk out of the store feeling pretty good about my $200 purchase.

In the case of Knights & Dragons, when you compare the actual WORTH of this game to everything else that has ever been put on the market, it is astonishingly sub-par. I know people who could literally program a game like this with ONE DAY of coding. The game has no depth, a retarded story, horrible animation, horrible backgrounds, and horrible gameplay.

The ONLY thing this game has going for it, is the "carrot-on-a-stick" gameplay model, stolen directly from WoW. People enjoy feeling superior to others, so providing them with a cooler and stronger armor than the next guy, is very appealing.

So the fact that you are willing to spend $1500 on a piece of garbage like this, does concern me, because you are removing the incentive for these game developers to produce quality content, and that affects my life.

If everyone was willing to pay $200 for a shoe that is the same quality as something you buy from WAL-MART, then every single shoe company would stop producing quality shoes and just sell you straight up garbage for as much as you're willing to pay for it. This would mean then when I want to buy a new pair of shoes, I don't even have the OPTION of buying something that I feel is worth my money, because the entire market has deteriorated into a giant pile of sh*t because of people like YOU who will buy anything that is put in front of them.

Fortunately this would never happen in the shoe industry, because your average shoe consumer has a brain, and would never spend that kind of money for something that isn't remotely worth it. This is true for MOST industries, except of course the mobile gaming industry, which is an anomaly in the business world.

[shawnk]

Here's some perspective for you:

US Prison Industrial Complex 10-year cost to US taxpayers: $4 billion dollars (now ask yourself how much is being made in profits)

Estimated 10-year cost to END WORLD HUNGER: $3 billion dollars

The 7 walmart heirs are worth more than the bottom ~30% of the us population.

The system can't go on much longer. I will miss K&D far more than BOA, C, WF, MS etc

Please, just stop voting.
lol man I don't know why u talked about all that. There is no question we are heading into an inevitable war of some sorts. us is prining like 80 billion dollars a month that's what is holding stock market and everything together. prison system is bad political system is bad school system is bad, welfare is abused, disability is abused etc... the money us is making is not backed up by gold etc anymore its basically useless if u look at it but we are talking about this game :) u have the right to choose to spend there is nothing wrong with that but u wanted to say is that because of u guys that are being exploited the game is broken so in about a year not as many people will play and u will have to move on because the fun is gone. now if u invested a couple of thousand hundreds or more u will be left with nothing but just a little thrill. if u use the money to buy a 2nd house. to rent it, to take ur date to a dinner etc u will be better off. these games go too far in exploiting people causing the game to crash. is not ur fault for wanting to be the best but they take too far is all im saying lol. its an amazing thing. I go to las vegas every year and bet. its not that different than what u r doing but it gives me a chance to win something unlike in this game. The difference is when I win in las vegas my winnings have value. urs and this game don't. u have the right to spend and enjoy the product hell u worked hard for it and its worth taking the break but hey are exploiting u guys to ur last penny. its very incredible. u r not the only one who likes to win we all want to win but in my case I want to win in the long run in life by buying real things. hey im going to make a lot of money in 2 years after I graduate and become a dentist but that money wont be going towards games. I will use that money to buy more land, more cars etc real things because in the future my family can use them. I will give to charity because that makes me feel better than using my money on something that has no value. in fact there are games out there that u can buy things that will last and are valuable like one game had a space station that was bought for over 400k (real money) but it doesn't lose its value. this game u r wasting ur money is all im saying because u r over competitive on something that will have no value soon. I just wrote so much and falcons and the braves r losing because that's Atlanta life for u but I was just trying to give u guys my 2 cents. u can do what ever u like. srry if I rambled too much im not proof reading this lol I have drank a little bit so I hope it makes sense. go falcons and braves <3

[shawnk]

I understand what you're getting at, and to a certain extent, I agree with you. What people spend their money on is their business, not mine. But your running shoe comparison is not logical, and here's why:

When I walk into a shoe store, there is literally 50 different shoes up on the wall for me to choose from. They will range in price from $30 to $200, and it is up to me which one I want to spend my money on. As a consumer, I am aware that the listed price is related to the quality of the shoe, where it was made, and quite often the brand name to which it is attached.

In terms of being ripped off in that situation, at the very worst, I spend $200 for some Nike basketball shoe with air bubbles or whatever in the sole. This shoe, although possibly overpriced, is not a PIECE OF TRASH. In terms of quality, when you put that $200 shoe next to the $30 shoe, it will come out on top in every single category. On top of being a quality product, I get the added benefit of the name brand, which makes me feel good about myself, and superior to others (hypothetically speaking). I can walk out of the store feeling pretty good about my $200 purchase.

In the case of Knights & Dragons, when you compare the actual WORTH of this game to everything else that has ever been put on the market, it is astonishingly sub-par. I know people who could literally program a game like this with ONE DAY of coding. The game has no depth, a retarded story, horrible animation, horrible backgrounds, and horrible gameplay.

The ONLY thing this game has going for it, is the "carrot-on-a-stick" gameplay model, stolen directly from WoW. People enjoy feeling superior to others, so providing them with a cooler and stronger armor than the next guy, is very appealing.

So the fact that you are willing to spend $1500 on a piece of garbage like this, does concern me, because you are removing the incentive for these game developers to produce quality content, and that affects my life.

If everyone was willing to pay $200 for a shoe that is the same quality as something you buy from WAL-MART, then every single shoe company would stop producing quality shoes and just sell you straight up garbage for as much as you're willing to pay for it. This would mean then when I want to buy a new pair of shoes, I don't even have the OPTION of buying something that I feel is worth my money, because the entire market has deteriorated into a giant pile of sh*t because of people like YOU who will buy anything that is put in front of them.

Fortunately this would never happen in the shoe industry, because your average shoe consumer has a brain, and would never spend that kind of money for something that isn't remotely worth it. This is true for MOST industries, except of course the mobile gaming industry, which is an anomaly in the business world.
this is such a quality post. I mean look I spend nothing and opened an epic that's just wrong to u guys who spend so much to get that epic. there is also a theory that people r marked as spenders and when they are u don't get good stuff but others do because it motivates other nonspenders that there is hope. the industry is genius. They are talking about sony (playstation) and Microsoft (xbox) trying to catch up to these guys because the amount of money in this industry is crazy. Its so genius that I am in awe. We are all new to this kind of thing and people don't understand the impact of what they are doing. in 5-10 years people will mature and understand what is actually happening with these games :) and im not saying anyone here is immature just inexperienced including me but i have studied the subject and love it man. pure genius.

[shawnk]

guys btw one thing i want to point out is that i like to get educated because we can always learn. this industry just intrigues me so greatly. im having a lot of fun lol and i love this subject. i don't like to knock down anyone or anything just stating my opinion. u r all great people. the guys who spend a lot of money have earned to be able to spend on things they enjoy but i want to say spend it on things that will bring u joy in the long run. u can always learn from everyone not everything is an attack even if it might seem like it is because its hard to tell the tone of the person u r talking to through text :)

[busteroaf]

I understand what you're getting at, and to a certain extent, I agree with you. What people spend their money on is their business, not mine. But your running shoe comparison is not logical, and here's why:

When I walk into a shoe store, there is literally 50 different shoes up on the wall for me to choose from. They will range in price from $30 to $200, and it is up to me which one I want to spend my money on. As a consumer, I am aware that the listed price is related to the quality of the shoe, where it was made, and quite often the brand name to which it is attached.

In terms of being ripped off in that situation, at the very worst, I spend $200 for some Nike basketball shoe with air bubbles or whatever in the sole. This shoe, although possibly overpriced, is not a PIECE OF TRASH. In terms of quality, when you put that $200 shoe next to the $30 shoe, it will come out on top in every single category. On top of being a quality product, I get the added benefit of the name brand, which makes me feel good about myself, and superior to others (hypothetically speaking). I can walk out of the store feeling pretty good about my $200 purchase.

In the case of Knights & Dragons, when you compare the actual WORTH of this game to everything else that has ever been put on the market, it is astonishingly sub-par. I know people who could literally program a game like this with ONE DAY of coding. The game has no depth, a retarded story, horrible animation, horrible backgrounds, and horrible gameplay.

The ONLY thing this game has going for it, is the "carrot-on-a-stick" gameplay model, stolen directly from WoW. People enjoy feeling superior to others, so providing them with a cooler and stronger armor than the next guy, is very appealing.

So the fact that you are willing to spend $1500 on a piece of garbage like this, does concern me, because you are removing the incentive for these game developers to produce quality content, and that affects my life.

If everyone was willing to pay $200 for a shoe that is the same quality as something you buy from WAL-MART, then every single shoe company would stop producing quality shoes and just sell you straight up garbage for as much as you're willing to pay for it. This would mean then when I want to buy a new pair of shoes, I don't even have the OPTION of buying something that I feel is worth my money, because the entire market has deteriorated into a giant pile of sh*t because of people like YOU who will buy anything that is put in front of them.

Fortunately this would never happen in the shoe industry, because your average shoe consumer has a brain, and would never spend that kind of money for something that isn't remotely worth it. This is true for MOST industries, except of course the mobile gaming industry, which is an anomaly in the business world.

Yeah, don't agree. Often times, that $200 pair of Jordan's, is just a flashy shiny piece of leather. They don't make you play any better, they don't make you run faster. Its pure name/brand recognition. They put the product out there for people that want to feel special. You grab your Jordans and I'll put on my cheapos... a shoe isn't going to make you a better basketball player. You THINK it does, but it doesn't. Your assumption that price is reflective of quality falls flat, just like your idea about the game. Also, realize that many of these same shoe companies you are saying are "brand name" and "high quality"... do indeed sell you straight up garbage for as much as you're willing to pay for it. Again, see "buying Jordan's"

Go to the App Store, there is a giant wall of games where they're all the same. How many Clash of Clans clones are there out there? I know Gree has advertised a few. Same exact game, just a new skin. Legend of Cryptids and Rage of Bahamut. Essentially the same game. Cards that you fuse together, pick a "deck" of 5 cards with various boosts and battle other people. Go on a questline etc etc... Guild wars, boss fights, pvp/arena... You do that with cards there, and here you do it with armor. This is not the only game designed like it, so you DO have a selection. Also, do you consider those card games sub-par for NOT having animation? Its all in what you want in a game. And obviously, from posting on these forums, YOU, at some point, chose THIS SUB-PAR game for a reason. Sounds to me like you have crappy selection in games... Either continue to play, or stop complaining about it and go somewhere else.

And as far as saying people spending $1500 on the game, yeah, that sucks for them, but I'm not sure where you're getting those figures, or who you are directing it to. I know I haven't spent that much. And if someone spending money on a game, causes ALL the developers to change their gaming habits, trust me, you need to look further than these games and go back to your Playstations and Xbox that have had DLC for way longer than many of these games have been around. Also, KnD is not the downfall of all gaming, so ease up off the ledge Mr. "the crappy micro-transaction gaming industry is affecting my life". I'm sorry that this is how the industry is progressing, but... its a GAME. I'm sorry you might have to find a new release from life or when you get home from your job. Again, other games and other developers. Get a grip guy. Go read a book, or play some checkers. I haven't seen much DLC with either of those lately.

Also, please refrain from saying that I will buy anything put in front of me and that the market has deteriorated/will deteriorate because of it. You don't know how much I've spent in the game, or what I spend on, so you can't say that I'm the cause of it. Pump the breaks. And again, if you're so unhappy with the game the way it is, why are you still here?

[McRay]

The game means nothing to me. I play it because I'm a busy person, and I don't have time to play the games that I want to play. I see this game for what it is, a pay-to-win piece of trash, which I use to kill time while I'm driving or taking a ****.

I also play it because as you so conveniently pointed out, EVERY GAME ON THE APP STORE IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS; which is my entire point, so I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. If consumers weren't having an affect on the way games are made, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, because I wouldn't be playing this game due to lack of options. I'd much rather be playing a quality game that I can buy for a one time fee of $40.

As soon as people stop falling for this F2P nonsense, the developers will stop making this trash, and start producing quality games again. But, I'm not holding my breath.

Also, lol at jordan's being a "piece of leather". hahahahahahahahaah. If you don't think a $200 shoe is good quality then you are delusional. I have some shoes that are $70, and some that are $300, and believe me when I tell you I don't go to the gym or the track with my $70 shoes unless I want to do permanent damage to my ankles and knees.

[shawnk]

The game means nothing to me. I play it because I'm a busy person, and I don't have time to play the games that I want to play. I see this game for what it is, a pay-to-win piece of trash, which I use to kill time while I'm driving or taking a ****.

I also play it because as you so conveniently pointed out, EVERY GAME ON THE APP STORE IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS; which is my entire point, so I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. If consumers weren't having an affect on the way games are made, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, because I wouldn't be playing this game due to lack of options. I'd much rather be playing a quality game that I can buy for a one time fee of $40.

As soon as people stop falling for this F2P nonsense, the developers will stop making this trash, and start producing quality games again. But, I'm not holding my breath.

Also, lol at jordan's being a "piece of leather". hahahahahahahahaah. If you don't think a $200 shoe is good quality then you are delusional. I have some shoes that are $70, and some that are $300, and believe me when I tell you I don't go to the gym or the track with my $70 shoes unless I want to do permanent damage to my ankles and knees.
this guy speaks the truth. i got my shoes fitted last year because of my work outs and nothing is more important than ur body. nothing so its worth it paying in my case about 250 dollars for good shoes because they protect me in the long run.

[drygores]

That's one of the largest walls of text I think I've seen. Not even gonna attempt to read it all. Let me bury it. *digs hole* throws page 8 in it*

[gnolaum]

*helps shovel dirt*

Seriously that both escalated and diverged quickly.

QQ crappy epic that I still want, and crappy rewards that I don't understand how anyone could want.

[busteroaf]

The game means nothing to me. I play it because I'm a busy person, and I don't have time to play the games that I want to play. I see this game for what it is, a pay-to-win piece of trash, which I use to kill time while I'm driving or taking a ****.

I also play it because as you so conveniently pointed out, EVERY GAME ON THE APP STORE IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS; which is my entire point, so I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. If consumers weren't having an affect on the way games are made, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, because I wouldn't be playing this game due to lack of options. I'd much rather be playing a quality game that I can buy for a one time fee of $40.

As soon as people stop falling for this F2P nonsense, the developers will stop making this trash, and start producing quality games again. But, I'm not holding my breath.

Also, lol at jordan's being a "piece of leather". hahahahahahahahaah. If you don't think a $200 shoe is good quality then you are delusional. I have some shoes that are $70, and some that are $300, and believe me when I tell you I don't go to the gym or the track with my $70 shoes unless I want to do permanent damage to my ankles and knees.
Play while you're driving huh? Good for you. Don't focus on these crappy games too much, you might cause an accident and actually hurt someone who has good spending habits and isn't affecting your quality of gaming.

So is it the consumers fault games are the way they are? Or the developers? Who started it? Was it the greedy consumer that said "hey, company. I will pay to have this product before someone else." Or did the developer say "hey, consumer, would you be willing to spend a few bucks to get this product before someone else?" You have to change the entire gaming culture if you want your "quality" games back. Or maybe the developers listened to the consumers and gave them what they wanted... instant access to more things, just in lottery, pay to win form. Who knows. Nor do I care. The gaming industry doesn't rule my life.

Another question: Are Jordan's the best shoes to play basketball in? Yeah, that is why they're usually worn to the club, not the court. Notice that most people that buy them, buy them just because of the name? People aren't paying the people doing shoe refinishing top $ to fix their court shoes with the best ankle support. They want something to wear to the club so they can look flashy. Also, kudos to you for spending $300 for shoes to go work out or run in. You must have impeccable ankle and knee structure thanks to them. My grandmother would be jealous. My brother is in the orthotics and prosthetics industry, owns his own practice. He is a guest speaker/lecturer at Northwestern for their program. Know how many times he's recommended the $300 shoes vs a $70 pair for his clients? Hardly ever. Does that mean he's the end all be all of shoes and their impact on the body? No, but shoes he's recommended were cheaper than the high priced, and by your standards, "high quality" ones that are touted as having the best support etc etc. Price does not always equal quality.

[The Pale Rider]

TLDR. But here's my 2 cents: Everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I spend far too much to drink in nice bars and eat in nice restaurants. To fly instead of drive, etc. Paying "too much" is not absolute it's relative to the perceived value of the person paying it. It's easy enough to rationalize spending $100 when you get 10 hours of entertainment in return.

To those mocking spenders -- go make more disposal income, or at least go away, your sad diatribes are pathetic bringdowns to the community. Go hang out in front of establishments that cater to those with more money than you and yell at the people having a good time with their money -- see if it makes you feel better.

[busteroaf]

this guy speaks the truth. i got my shoes fitted last year because of my work outs and nothing is more important than ur body. nothing so its worth it paying in my case about 250 dollars for good shoes because they protect me in the long run.

You must have killer foot workouts. And how do those shoes "protect" you from using bad form on a lift? Does an invisible shield pop out of them? Do they come with airbags in case you stub your toe? If more people were taught proper form and how not to be idiots with workouts, you wouldn't need shoes to "protect" you, or support you more. Hell, read this:http://www.coloradoobstacleracers.com/1/post/2013/04/hard-cor-athlete-tyler-tomasello.html Check that out and tell me more about how your fitted shoe's you spend $250 on are helping you vs. his $75 sandals.

Again, expensive does not equal quality. Well, unless you're comparing his $75 sandals vs the $2 sandals you buy at the beach store...

[template]

Just wanted to point out that wearing expensive Nikes to run is probably a bad idea. If you're serious about running, you would actually go to specialty shops which will video how you run and recommend the appropriate type of shoes to ensure less chance of injury/damage. Nike is pretty much a crap brand and the hardcore runners buy real running shoes which cost nowhere what the current latest Nike or (insert other commercial brand here) would cost.

So yeah, good choice buying those shoes for your workouts!

[McRay]

Two posts in a row from people who apparently can't read.

All of the examples you are giving are not applicable. But I'm through wasting my time trying to explain to you why.

Eventually some developer will make a game that isn't F2P, and it will be leagues above this one, and every other piece of sh*t game like it in quality. When that happens, you guys can stay here being exploited while the rest of us go and get our money's worth. Then it will truly be none of my concern how you waste your money.

[dragonx254]

To those mocking spenders -- go make more disposal income, or at least go away, your sad diatribes are pathetic bringdowns to the community. Go hang out in front of establishments that cater to those with more money than you and yell at the people having a good time with their money -- see if it makes you feel better.

Well, to be fair, people spending money at establishments for entertainment is different than this game.

Because in this game, the spenders get a DIRECT advantage over the non-spenders.

The non-spenders will never, EVER, no matter how hard they try, be in the top 10 of any war, simply because they aren't willing/can't afford the money, even if they play the game just as much.

Even if they save up gems from the free offers, or buy a couple, the top guilds will simply by 10's of 1000's more.

And as a result, the non-spenders hit a wall. Without spending a single gem, the only epic they can currently get is Moontide Platemail from fusing, which is, now, being outranked by all the newer epics.

And so they will reach a point where they will peak at the highest possible level, with the best armor they can possibly acquire, and still be VASTLY inferior just because someone has a larger pocketbook.




That's just my two cents. I'm not saying that spending money is good or bad.

It's just that those that spend money, tend to ruin the "potential reward" that the non-spenders get (and so your real-world comparison doesn't really hold up. That's the only point I'm making)

[busteroaf]

It's just that those that spend money, tend to ruin the "potential reward" that the non-spenders get (and so your real-world comparison doesn't really hold up. That's the only point I'm making)

Actually, those spenders don't ruin any potential rewards for the non-spenders. They provide the backbone of the game for the non-spenders. Without the spenders, there wouldn't be a game, thus no rewards to begin with.

[Paladineguru]

Bull, wed just pay a one time fee and maybe a fee each expansion, its clear why oaf is in your name. Of course as one of the idiots wasting his thousands you'd defend your position.
Like he said. All it takes is a better game. And you just wasted a year of your life.
Me ill take GTA 5 and save for a ps4 and my vacation to Jamaica..
This game is already falling fast as a revenue maker, and the business model itself is looking to be short lived. So enjoy feeling superior for being stupid enough to waste more money than me.
Final fantasy has all its versions for a flat fee

[dragonx254]

Even so, the staggering differences between those that spend, and those that don't spend, is discouraging to the community as a whole.


Someone may see the game, be like "Oh look it's free to play!" and decide not to spend a dime.

And then after playing, realize that the only people who can truly "win" at the game, are people who have plenty of disposable income. And so they will never be better than top 250, or top 500, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the people that spend, get even greater rewards, making them even MORE powerful, with absolutely ZERO chance of non-spenders ever reaching that level of reward, regardless of any effort put forth. (the whole "rich get richer" scheme)

Now I know that spenders keep the game running, but must there really be such a disparity between the spenders vs non-spenders?

A guild could have much better armor/higher levels/better bonuses/more active members than another guild in a guild war, but because the weaker guild had a couple gem spenders who literally just attacked the gate non-stop the whole hour while the stronger guild simply used the energy given normally in game, they lose? I just see something wrong with that picture.

[Unresolved]

You needed to work really hard as a non-spender with some luck to keep up(only in terms of armors) with regular spenders. Unfortunately, you had to have gotten into a top guild before wars in order to maintain your status. if you're a non-spender just starting out, you're pretty much out of luck nowadays.

[shawnk]

You must have killer foot workouts. And how do those shoes "protect" you from using bad form on a lift? Does an invisible shield pop out of them? Do they come with airbags in case you stub your toe? If more people were taught proper form and how not to be idiots with workouts, you wouldn't need shoes to "protect" you, or support you more. Hell, read this:http://www.coloradoobstacleracers.com/1/post/2013/04/hard-cor-athlete-tyler-tomasello.html Check that out and tell me more about how your fitted shoe's you spend $250 on are helping you vs. his $75 sandals.

Again, expensive does not equal quality. Well, unless you're comparing his $75 sandals vs the $2 sandals you buy at the beach store...

lol i don't like to say anything but u my friend r foolish or u couldn't read everything. my work out consists of insanity and p90x to be conditioned to play soccer and they take a toll on the body. i feel bad because u don't understand the main concept but its up to u what u do with ur time and money. end of story lol

[McRay]

Bull, wed just pay a one time fee and maybe a fee each expansion

This is what he fails to grasp. If you stop playing into the F2P scam, the game developers don't just pack their bags and walk away. They simply change their pricing model.

[shawnk]

Even so, the staggering differences between those that spend, and those that don't spend, is discouraging to the community as a whole.


Someone may see the game, be like "Oh look it's free to play!" and decide not to spend a dime.

And then after playing, realize that the only people who can truly "win" at the game, are people who have plenty of disposable income. And so they will never be better than top 250, or top 500, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the people that spend, get even greater rewards, making them even MORE powerful, with absolutely ZERO chance of non-spenders ever reaching that level of reward, regardless of any effort put forth. (the whole "rich get richer" scheme)

Now I know that spenders keep the game running, but must there really be such a disparity between the spenders vs non-spenders?

A guild could have much better armor/higher levels/better bonuses/more active members than another guild in a guild war, but because the weaker guild had a couple gem spenders who literally just attacked the gate non-stop the whole hour while the stronger guild simply used the energy given normally in game, they lose? I just see something wrong with that picture.

You needed to work really hard as a non-spender with some luck to keep up(only in terms of armors) with regular spenders. Unfortunately, you had to have gotten into a top guild before wars in order to maintain your status. if you're a non-spender just starting out, you're pretty much out of luck nowadays.
its not about spending as much as it is about how spenders are easily exploited causing the games to break u can see it in all of the games today. i don't really care im actually thinking about selling my account because someone will pay for it lol. I can spend but u need to study what u spend it on. everyone that spend money on this game has been foolish because the game does not return ur investment. if u don't understand this then i don't know what to say lol. :). of course u can work hard and get lucky like me but the people who have spend r just funny man. this war that's about to happen its going to be comical.

[shawnk]

Two posts in a row from people who apparently can't read.

All of the examples you are giving are not applicable. But I'm through wasting my time trying to explain to you why.

Eventually some developer will make a game that isn't F2P, and it will be leagues above this one, and every other piece of sh*t game like it in quality. When that happens, you guys can stay here being exploited while the rest of us go and get our money's worth. Then it will truly be none of my concern how you waste your money.
its no use lol u have had some very intelligent posts. cheers ray btw i have added people below lvl 30 to get them epic boss armor but i think that's becoming misleading because like the guy above said the game is just usless to them now. btw we are just talking about our opinions knowledge is power u can do what u like lol.

[shawnk]

You needed to work really hard as a non-spender with some luck to keep up(only in terms of armors) with regular spenders. Unfortunately, you had to have gotten into a top guild before wars in order to maintain your status. if you're a non-spender just starting out, you're pretty much out of luck nowadays.
btw i checked ur website out. people on the iphone go all out lol. the war points are crazy. nice site ;)

[-Solo-]

You have $300 shoes to play bball or run at the track with? No, you don't. Majority of sneakerheads buy shoes to look good in, not to wear them on the court. Good running shoes can go for $50, just as there are good ones at $150. Shoes being new doesn't make it better since running shoes are different for each person. Just because you can't wear them doesn't mean other people can't. They will be just as good to them as any other pricey shoe.

[Unresolved]

btw i checked ur website out. people on the iphone go all out lol. the war points are crazy. nice site ;)

Thanks man, One of our guys put a lot of work into it :).

[shawnk]

You have $300 shoes to play bball or run at the track with? No, you don't. Majority of sneakerheads buy shoes to look good in, not to wear them on the court. Good running shoes can go for $50, just as there are good ones at $150. Shoes being new doesn't make it better since running shoes are different for each person. Just because you can't wear them doesn't mean other people can't. They will be just as good to them as any other pricey shoe.
not true lol. i used to think the same then i got my shoes fitted for me because my ankles were on pressure and it really helps. although some shoes are overpriced there are ones that truly do help u lessen injury. if u want to look good that's a different story lol. there are shoes for that and there are shoes for sports and keeping in shape. of course shoes that r used for sport activities can look very good and u can wear them but they are a lot more than that. value ur self and body before anything. i don't know how active u guys are but if u go all out and do ur best to keep in shape shoes can have a drastic effect. if u don't understand this then u don't push ur body to the limits that many do. shoes make a big different lol i cant believe i said that it sounds weird but its the truth lol

[shawnk]

Thanks man, One of our guys put a lot of work into it :).
very classy man. one thing i noticed everyone on this website is dedicated to the game including me and im not on i phone but from what i see u guys are a great classy clan. good luck on the war ;) and have a good night

[shawnk]

last thing before i wish u all good night we all are human and have opinions. post them i love all perspectives. have a good night everyone but post more opinions plz because i like this thread ;)

[busteroaf]

last thing before i wish u all good night we all are human and have opinions. post them i love all perspectives. have a good night everyone but post more opinions plz because i like this thread ;)

Damn dude, multi-quote... use it. You'll stop boosting your post count unnecessarily.

Anyway, some of your points.

First question: Adding people. What level are you at? Actually, it doesn't really matter, since people below level 30 will likely have a hard time beating boss level 15 as it is, because friend stats cap, but kudos for having some low level friends. Hopefully they'll get some use out of you.

Also, p90x and insanity? You bought $250 shoes for that? For some HIIT and Plyo? Cheers to you. You must be a beast because of your training and pushing your body to the max. You probably shouldn't be spending time on a phone game, its bad for your eyes and your shoes can't protect you from that. See how ridiculous that sounds? $250 shoes isn't for everyone, just like p90x and insanity aren't either. Btw, have you heard of T25? Insanity in half the time. I just saved you half an hour a day. You're welcome.

Lastly, you keep talking about not getting a return, and how things are comical. This isn't like investing in stocks where you expect something back at the end. This is a form of entertainment. Do you get a return when you go to the movies? That "OMG that was scary" moment. Then its gone. When you go out to eat? "Man, that was tasty!..." Then you go to the bathroom. Sure, you get your memories or happiness from the date etc.

Why can't you have happiness or memories from the game? What about the people saying "hey, I just made boss level 43 for the first time!" That is an accomplishment for them. Do you think they said "man, boss level 43. What a waste, I'm not getting a return on my investment..." If spending $$ on the game to win a guild war makes someone happy, even if its for 5 minutes... that is the same as any other form of entertainment right? Don't knock it. To each their own right? Also, do you get a return when you buy the $59.99 new PS or XboX game? How is that any different? How are any games returning ANY investment? Please think with your brain before jumping in.

[McRay]

Yeah buying GTA V for $59.99 and spending thousands of dollars on something that is equivalent to a FLASH GAME is totally the same thing :)

[Zyntree]

TLDR. But here's my 2 cents: Everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I spend far too much to drink in nice bars and eat in nice restaurants. To fly instead of drive, etc. Paying "too much" is not absolute it's relative to the perceived value of the person paying it. It's easy enough to rationalize spending $100 when you get 10 hours of entertainment in return.

To those mocking spenders -- go make more disposal income, or at least go away, your sad diatribes are pathetic bringdowns to the community. Go hang out in front of establishments that cater to those with more money than you and yell at the people having a good time with their money -- see if it makes you feel better.

Can I just say yes? This pretty much says it.

I mean things devolve on these things so fast. Wern't we complaining about lame rewards? And yes, for any guild not in top 10, we're only fighting to compete. We won't get anything useful, but that doesn't mean we need to go around bashing the 'spenders'.

I think rewards for this war are lame! Boo silly guild war rewards. Lets move on now...

[shawnk]

Damn dude, multi-quote... use it. You'll stop boosting your post count unnecessarily.

Anyway, some of your points.

First question: Adding people. What level are you at? Actually, it doesn't really matter, since people below level 30 will likely have a hard time beating boss level 15 as it is, because friend stats cap, but kudos for having some low level friends. Hopefully they'll get some use out of you.

Also, p90x and insanity? You bought $250 shoes for that? For some HIIT and Plyo? Cheers to you. You must be a beast because of your training and pushing your body to the max. You probably shouldn't be spending time on a phone game, its bad for your eyes and your shoes can't protect you from that. See how ridiculous that sounds? $250 shoes isn't for everyone, just like p90x and insanity aren't either. Btw, have you heard of T25? Insanity in half the time. I just saved you half an hour a day. You're welcome.

Lastly, you keep talking about not getting a return, and how things are comical. This isn't like investing in stocks where you expect something back at the end. This is a form of entertainment. Do you get a return when you go to the movies? That "OMG that was scary" moment. Then its gone. When you go out to eat? "Man, that was tasty!..." Then you go to the bathroom. Sure, you get your memories or happiness from the date etc.

Why can't you have happiness or memories from the game? What about the people saying "hey, I just made boss level 43 for the first time!" That is an accomplishment for them. Do you think they said "man, boss level 43. What a waste, I'm not getting a return on my investment..." If spending $$ on the game to win a guild war makes someone happy, even if its for 5 minutes... that is the same as any other form of entertainment right? Don't knock it. To each their own right? Also, do you get a return when you buy the $59.99 new PS or XboX game? How is that any different? How are any games returning ANY investment? Please think with your brain before jumping in.
lol i cant belive i got to read this before going to sleep since braves r sucking it and falcons lost to jets lol sad day ;). now i will try to answer ur questions. im no beast im just healthy and love having a fit body not for girls but because i noticed that it makes me happy to be fit and i can understand more since dental school is no joke. of course the other benefits are great but nothing can beat self confidence and happiness which a lot of people lack. im lvl 147 in this game and to tell u the truth between dental school, working out and going out with friends this game is perfect because i only need to get on every 3 hours to just fight the dark prince so its not very demanding and i have a guild that is just awesome with chill people who are always helping each other and are funny. the reason for the works outs is they are just one hour and not very demanding and keep me fit for the soccer league we are on :). u r right this is not like stock market u don't get anything except ur investment is guaranteed to fail. lol " there is nothing about a person saying i beat the boss at lvl 43 lol that's funny to me because i have had more important memories. about the ps3 games xbox games i do buy them u r right they are no different except that they produce good content. like lets say mw they produce a lvl playing field for everyone but u need to have skills to get good but then u can talk about ea sports and their ultimate teams where if u spend u can all the players which is a waste of money in my eyes just like u said "to each his own" lmao cheers man i hope u have a good night

Can I just say yes? This pretty much says it.

I mean things devolve on these things so fast. Wern't we complaining about lame rewards? And yes, for any guild not in top 10, we're only fighting to compete. We won't get anything useful, but that doesn't mean we need to go around bashing the 'spenders'.

I think rewards for this war are lame! Boo silly guild war rewards. Lets move on now...
so true i was just talking mostly about the greatness of these mobile games. some people go all out lmao. truly everything is worth what people are paying for it but when some people are speaking facts and have great opinions u don't shut them down because u feel threatened which is how some of u guys are acting like instead of giving and adding to the conversation. Companies like Enron were good investments too right lol its all investing with nothing to gain. if one of ur best memories is made by someone saying " man i got an epic armor for first time or i finished lvl 43 boss for first time" then ur life is different than mine and we value things very differently. <3

[busteroaf]

Yeah buying GTA V for $59.99 and spending thousands of dollars on something that is equivalent to a FLASH GAME is totally the same thing :)

You get a rush from playing both right? Excitement when you beat a level or a boss... so yeah, $$ aside, it IS the same thing. Each game gives you an entertainment.

And again, where do you keep pulling out thousands of dollars as an amount? Most people who spend money on this game haven't spent anywhere near that. Yes, some crazy people have, but not everyone. Again, pump the brakes a little bud.

[McRay]

$$ aside, it IS the same thing.

You are funny man.

You can't say "$$ aside" when the entire discussion revolves around $$

Hey guys should I spend $150,000 on an Audi R8, or should I buy the new Mazda2 on Ebay for $245,000?

Appearance, luxury, performance, quality, and reliability aside.... they are pretty much the same thing right?

[busteroaf]

lol i cant belive i got to read this before going to sleep since braves r sucking it and falcons lost to jets lol sad day ;). now i will try to answer ur questions. im no beast im just healthy and love having a fit body not for girls but because i noticed that it makes me happy to be fit and i can understand more since dental school is no joke. of course the other benefits are great but nothing can beat self confidence and happiness which a lot of people lack. im lvl 147 in this game and to tell u the truth between dental school, working out and going out with friends this game is perfect because i only need to get on every 3 hours to just fight the dark prince so its not very demanding and i have a guild that is just awesome with chill people who are always helping each other and are funny. the reason for the works outs is they are just one hour and not very demanding and keep me fit for the soccer league we are on :). u r right this is not like stock market u don't get anything except ur investment is guaranteed to fail. lol " there is nothing about a person saying i beat the boss at lvl 43 lol that's funny to me because i have had more important memories. about the ps3 games xbox games i do buy them u r right they are no different except that they produce good content. like lets say mw they produce a lvl playing field for everyone but u need to have skills to get good but then u can talk about ea sports and their ultimate teams where if u spend u can all the players which is a waste of money in my eyes just like u said "to each his own" lmao cheers man i hope u have a good night

Again... block of text. I guess staring at peoples teeth all day, playing in a soccer league, and playing this game doesn't require sentences or the use of punctuation. It is honestly hard to read some of your stuff, as I'm not sure where one sentence starts or ends.

You say the investment is guaranteed to fail. it is ENTERTAINMENT. The point of it is to ENTERTAIN. How does it fail at entertaining if you chose to make that your escape? Even if it is while you're on the toilet, its an escape. It did its job. That isn't a fail. You chose to spend money to do something in the game. Did you get a little adrenaline rush when you clicked the button to buy another 11 pack of beast chests? Yes? That is entertainment. No? Clearly you are not entertained and need to find a new game or a better way to spend your money.

And again, not sure where you're talking about my "I beat level 43" point... it sounds like you're saying you've had more important memories than in a game. Good for you. I'm talking about entertainment. Like saying "Do you remember that scene in Top Gun where Maverick..." that is a memory tied to entertainment. Does that compare to holding my nephew or seeing my best friend get married? Making the game winning out in my 1st ever baseball game? Clearly no, but these are all different memories, from different things. I'm talking about in the context of entertainment, you have memories. But again, hard to read what you wrote, so I may have misunderstood it.

[Hildigam]

You are funny man.

You can't say "$$ aside" when the entire discussion revolves around $$

Hey guys should I spend $150,000 on an Audi R8, or should I buy the new Mazda2 on Ebay for $245,000?

Appearance, luxury, performance, quality, and reliability aside.... they are pretty much the same thing right?

They are both cars. Right?

[Itsmelen]

Frankly I wish you non-gem-spenders would just stop with your hatred of those of us who spend. Sure it's expensive and maybe a little silly to drop $100 on 800 gems, but hey, the game is fun and I know for me, I could use a little diversion right now since I just got laid off. And yeah maybe I should be saving my money but if my guild needs that extra push, you bet I'm gonna be there. It might mean that my 2-year old doesn't eat tonight but as far as I'm concerned he's always been a little chubby and could stand to skip a meal or two. So everybody wins. I mean, I admit that I thought about crying last night when I overdrew my bank account for another spin at the beast chest only to win 10 more two star armors. I sat there in bed, wondering what I was going to say to my sleeping wife that I just liquidated the last of our savings and have nothing but digitized garbage to show for it. Thankfully I managed to find a half-empty bottle of vodka and drink myself to sleep and I woke up today feeling like tomorrow's another day, you know? And if I can somehow manage another $100, I'm feeling like this spin will be the one that gets me an epic and makes it all worth it. I wanted to try and ram another purchase through my bank account but I think they're onto me since I've been getting calls from EVEN MORE unknown numbers today. Anyway live and let live I say.

[busteroaf]

You are funny man.

You can't say "$$ aside" when the entire discussion revolves around $$

Hey guys should I spend $150,000 on an Audi R8, or should I buy the new Mazda2 on Ebay for $245,000?

Appearance, luxury, performance, quality, and reliability aside.... they are pretty much the same thing right?

When you're talking about video games, it is. Why do you play GTA? Why do people play this game? For entertainment, plain and simple. People saying you don't get a return... both sets of players are getting their return. An escape from reality. You kept saying the quality of games is declining. That is your opinion. You seem to think this game is garbage. Well for some it isn't. And its good entertainment.

Just like the people that would indeed say to your statement... "They're both cars right?"

[template]

I really don't know what return on investment people expect from a game, other than the entertainment it provides.

Sure, some people may spend more than others but how is that your concern? Is it because they are "better" than you because they spent more? That's how they value their money and, even if they became flat out bankrupt, how does that affect you?

If the game isn't fun or your disagree with the payment model (which I agree is screwy), the great thing is that you're free to stop playing!

The F2P model is here to stay in some form or fashion and unless you can somehow persuade the millions of people playing games of this nature that it's wrong or bad, you either have to live with it or just avoid all of these games on principle.

[Sparkle_DPA]

This argument makes no sense o.O. Spending a lot of money on one game is more justified than spending on the other? Come on.. -.-

[McRay]

This argument makes no sense o.O. Spending a lot of money on one game is more justified than spending on the other? Come on.. -.-

I can see how it would be confusing for someone who can't read, such as yourself.

Yes, spending $59.99 on a game that takes thousands of hours of development, is more justified than spending thousands on a carrot-on-a-stick flash game that probably took less than a week to develop.

If you can't see that, then you lack the ability to think rationally, as do all of the people who spend more than $100 on this crap.

[drygores]

I can see how it would be confusing for someone who can't read, such as yourself.

Yes, spending $59.99 on a game that takes thousands of hours of development, is more justified than spending thousands on a carrot-on-a-stick flash game that probably took less than a week to develop.

If you can't see that, then you lack the ability to think rationally, as do all of the people who spend more than $100 on this crap.

Not everyone's view is the same. 100$ to one feels like 1,000,000. Another's 100$ feels like .01. Its money, who gives a ****. I could go drinking one night n spend 100$ no problem. Or out to supper for 50$. And so on and so on. If you enjoy it, go nuts.

[busteroaf]

Not everyone's view is the same. 100$ to one feels like 1,000,000. Another's 100$ feels like .01. Its money, who gives a ****. I could go drinking one night n spend 100$ no problem. Or out to supper for 50$. And so on and so on. If you enjoy it, go nuts.

Clearly he's better than us and doesn't understand how a simpleton could ever enjoy a $2 beer when you could instead be enjoying a bottle of Johnnie Blue.

[McRay]

Clearly he's better than us and doesn't understand how a simpleton could ever enjoy a $2 beer when you could instead be enjoying a bottle of Johnnie Blue.

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

[Mr Spock]

frankly i wish you non-gem-spenders would just stop with your hatred of those of us who spend. Sure it's expensive and maybe a little silly to drop $100 on 800 gems, but hey, the game is fun and i know for me, i could use a little diversion right now since i just got laid off. And yeah maybe i should be saving my money but if my guild needs that extra push, you bet i'm gonna be there. It might mean that my 2-year old doesn't eat tonight but as far as i'm concerned he's always been a little chubby and could stand to skip a meal or two. So everybody wins. I mean, i admit that i thought about crying last night when i overdrew my bank account for another spin at the beast chest only to win 10 more two star armors. I sat there in bed, wondering what i was going to say to my sleeping wife that i just liquidated the last of our savings and have nothing but digitized garbage to show for it. Thankfully i managed to find a half-empty bottle of vodka and drink myself to sleep and i woke up today feeling like tomorrow's another day, you know? And if i can somehow manage another $100, i'm feeling like this spin will be the one that gets me an epic and makes it all worth it. I wanted to try and ram another purchase through my bank account but i think they're onto me since i've been getting calls from even more unknown numbers today. Anyway live and let live i say.

lol i have read every single reply and vote this the best reply of the thread...congrats!! Very funny

[Mr Spock]

McRay congratulations to u 4 outclassing everyone else on making your point...the toilet was a classic remark. When u get Buster to the point of asking why u bother to play then you have won...

I am very interested in watching to see how many fight 4 the top 10. Last time 11 teams on the iOS did... I am curious if it will be more or less this time. I am betting less. A number of p2w players have got to be wondering if it is really worth it....in two months none of the current armors will be any good....

[Eunuchorn]

Shoes, cars, ps4, gta5, $1-$20 iPhone games vs F2P games, food, booze...returns, dividends, investments, house/car payment..I think dinner for girlfriends was mentioned?

NONE OF THESE EXIST. Go falcons/braves? The sports & entertainment industry have almost single handedly brought down the global human societies viewpoints of what's actually important. We are slaves, who idolize other slaves with more money, & judge/hate the slaves with less money.

I've spent close to $50,000 on this game. I spend almost as much on KA. My jeep is paid off & when the global Earthquakes really start ramping up, ill be driving right over all these $50,000 sedans and other "important things" that people "didn't waste" their money on. I'm in Cali though, so god willing the whole state goes at once. So much for that house payment.

Have you heard of Fukushima? enenews.com
Hopefully this girlfriend/wife/kids you are forced to entertain all the time & spend money on can still reproduce in 10 years, assuming half the population doesn't die by then & the other half become X-men.

Air Jordans = carbon
Payless Sandals = carbon
Cars = carbon
You = carbon
K&D = carbon

We are all addicted to the same drug & it's called the periodic table.

If you think one thing in your life is > another thing in your life, then you are severely overrating this whole life thing.

btw all, edit your profile options to show 40 posts per page. This thread is only 3 pages of quotes for me vs your 10.

& please, for the love of god, please, stop voting. It's not worth the carbon.

[busteroaf]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

Again, you're still using the standard that higher priced equals better quality. Quality is all perception, and different for everyone, and value is all that anyone is willing to pay for it. Know how much that $200 bottle of anything is worth to me? Zero, because I'm not paying $200 for a bottle of liquor.

You keep calling this game a sh*tty product. Again, YOUR opinion. Other people feel the value, or even fun factor, of this game is higher than a console game, which is why they play it. Who are you to judge that your opinion is worth more than theirs? Your opinion is not the measuring stick of video games, and neither is mine. That is the point you are missing. What you have deemed unworthy of your money, is worth more to other people. Your $200 bottle of Hennessy is sh*tty in my opinion.

You keep saying that this game is garbage or crap, which, you admittedly still say you play, so... get off your high horse, since you're playing a self-proclaimed crap game. And again, you're acting like you're better than everyone because you are trying to put down this game. If you think its so crappy, why do you still play it, even if you only do it while sitting on the toilet?

[template]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

Your analogy is off because you have a choice. You can choose not to play this game the same way you can choose not to buy a $35 bottle of Budweiser. You're making it sound as if this is the only game that you can play and therefore you have no choice.

So go spend your money somewhere else and be happier!

[Mr Spock]

Eunuchorn it's a cartoon... and u won't escape from California in your jeep...

[Eunuchorn]

Eunuchorn it's a cartoon... and u won't escape from California in your jeep...

The point wasn't to escape. I welcome death. It is unnatural to wake up trapped in the same carbon form every day. Were living in a false reality of duality. The end of the beginning finally draws near.

[drygores]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

Now use that same scenario, except the people who enjoy Budweiser. Would still be happy to pay it. Those who don't enjoy it Wouldnt.

If you don't enjoy it. And dont feel the entertainment from it. Don't spend.

[McRay]

Your analogy is off because you have a choice. You can choose not to play this game the same way you can choose not to buy a $35 bottle of Budweiser. You're making it sound as if this is the only game that you can play and therefore you have no choice.

So go spend your money somewhere else and be happier!

Again, LEARN TO READ. For the love of god is everyone illiterate?

In my analogy, I do NOT have a choice, because EVERY establishment sells ONLY $35 bottles of Budweiser.

We are discussing the Android gaming market. There is not a single quality game on Android that isn't F2P, which leaves me with only two options. Play this game, which admittedly is the best game I've found on Android, or play NOTHING.

Not a very appealing choice.

[template]

Again, LEARN TO READ. For the love of god is everyone illiterate?

In my analogy, I do NOT have a choice, because EVERY establishment sells ONLY $35 bottles of Budweiser.

We are discussing the Android gaming market. There is not a single quality game on Android that isn't F2P, which leaves me with only two options. Play this game, which admittedly is the best game I've found on Android, or play NOTHING.

Not a very appealing choice.

Get an iPhone? Stop playing mobile games? Read a book? Omg, more choices!!!

So because you can't find anything else better to play, therefore everything has to conform to what you like?

[Mr Spock]

Again, LEARN TO READ. For the love of god is everyone illiterate?

In my analogy, I do NOT have a choice, because EVERY establishment sells ONLY $35 bottles of Budweiser.

We are discussing the Android gaming market. There is not a single quality game on Android that isn't F2P, which leaves me with only two options. Play this game, which admittedly is the best game I've found on Android, or play NOTHING.

Not a very appealing choice.

Hey I said a couple nice things about you on page 12...

[busteroaf]

Again, LEARN TO READ. For the love of god is everyone illiterate?

In my analogy, I do NOT have a choice, because EVERY establishment sells ONLY $35 bottles of Budweiser.

We are discussing the Android gaming market. There is not a single quality game on Android that isn't F2P, which leaves me with only two options. Play this game, which admittedly is the best game I've found on Android, or play NOTHING.

Not a very appealing choice.

Yup, in your analogy, you wouldn't have the choice. So when you say it would be okay for some, but not others who want to spend their money on something more worthwhile... that "something more worthwhile" doesn't even exist. You wouldn't know of anything else "more worthwhile" because every store only sells one product. So how could you gauge that it is good or bad if there is nothing to compare it to?

[McRay]

therefore everything has to conform to what you like?

Yes, because in regards to this discussion, I am representing the logical point of view, that it is ridiculous to spend hundreds of dollars on a game of this quality.

Eventually people will realize that they are being scammed, and they will stop spending. Then the industry will evolve, and developers will start producing quality games with competitive pricing, therefore conforming to what I like.

You think this is the first time this has happened? I guess you weren't around in the 80's when ALL VIDEO GAMES were pay to play. It was called an arcade.

Then some Japanese guy said hey, buy this little grey box for $200 and you can play all the games you want at home! And bam, almost every arcade in the world has gone out of business.

The same thing will happen with mobile games, it's just a matter of who is going to do it, and when.

[busteroaf]

McRay congratulations to u 4 outclassing everyone else on making your point...the toilet was a classic remark. When u get Buster to the point of asking why u bother to play then you have won...

I am very interested in watching to see how many fight 4 the top 10. Last time 11 teams on the iOS did... I am curious if it will be more or less this time. I am betting less. A number of p2w players have got to be wondering if it is really worth it....in two months none of the current armors will be any good....

He made a point?

Also, my reason for asking why he plays, when he repeatedly says the game is ****ty and garbage, is a valid question.

[McRay]

Hey I said a couple nice things about you on page 12...

Thanks man, didn't mean to ignore you :)

[Eunuchorn]

I find people can see things from their own personal point of view. Too bad, really. Ego-based thought forms suck.

That being said, Mcray makes me lol. In a bad way.

[busteroaf]

Yes, because in regards to this discussion, I am representing the logical point of view, that it is ridiculous to spend hundreds of dollars on a game of this quality.

Eventually people will realize that they are being scammed, and they will stop spending. Then the industry will evolve, and developers will start producing quality games with competitive pricing, therefore conforming to what I like.

You think this is the first time this has happened? I guess you weren't around in the 80's when ALL VIDEO GAMES were pay to play. It was called an arcade.

Then some Japanese guy said hey, buy this little grey box for $200 and you can play all the games you want at home! And bam, almost every arcade in the world has gone out of business.

The same thing will happen with mobile games, it's just a matter of who is going to do it, and when.

Other people think it is ridiculous to spend hundreds of dollars on consoles and their games. Why can't you conform to their thinking? What they like?

Again you mention quality. Your perception of quality and other people's perception of quality are different. Who says yours is right?

[paganizer]

What a freaking joke, but i'm not at all surprised... This is GREEd afterall. They want the top 15 guilds to spend even more than usual to fight for top 10. Rest.. well they can have an outdated useless armor for fusing.

[McRay]

He made a point?

Also, my reason for asking why he plays, when he repeatedly says the game is ****ty and garbage, is a valid question.

You're right, it is. You have to keep in mind that my remarks about the game's quality are relative to our discussion regarding the money being spent on it in comparison to other games (in other markets).

For what it is, a mini MMO on my phone, it is awesome. I would gladly pay $20-$30 for it.

But when we're talking about spending hundreds of dollars, then I have to start comparing it to something like World of Warcraft. You can't honestly sit there and tell me this game is anywhere near that level of quality.

[template]

Yes, because in regards to this discussion, I am representing the logical point of view, that it is ridiculous to spend hundreds of dollars on a game of this quality.

Eventually people will realize that they are being scammed, and they will stop spending. Then the industry will evolve, and developers will start producing quality games with competitive pricing, therefore conforming to what I like.

You think this is the first time this has happened? I guess you weren't around in the 80's when ALL VIDEO GAMES were pay to play. It was called an arcade.

Then some Japanese guy said hey, buy this little grey box for $200 and you can play all the games you want at home! And bam, almost every arcade in the world has gone out of business.

The same thing will happen with mobile games, it's just a matter of who is going to do it, and when.

You keep fighting the good fight brother! And let me know when the day comes because I'll be right there with you enjoying the new paradigm. Until that time comes though, I'm going to be playing what's currently available and being happy instead of so bitter and pissed!

[busteroaf]

You're right, it is. You have to keep in mind that my remarks about the game's quality are relative to our discussion regarding the money being spent on it in comparison to other games (in other markets).

For what it is, a mini MMO on my phone, it is awesome. I would gladly pay $20-$30 for it.

But when we're talking about spending hundreds of dollars, then I have to start comparing it to something like World of Warcraft. You can't honestly sit there and tell me this game is anywhere near that level of quality.

How often do you pull your pc out of your pocket and play WoW? WoW is meant to be played in long stretches with raids, dungeons, questing. This game is a pocket game that you can play for a few minutes and then check back in 3 hours later. Two totally different games. You can't compare them.

The common thing they have is that they entertain both audiences. Someone spending hundreds here can be just as entertained as someone spending hundreds on WoW.

[-Solo-]

Is McRay King Mark's alt? He likes to argue with Eun just as much....and makes even less sense.

[paganizer]

lol why would I be angry that you're dumb enough to be exploited? If anything I feel pity for you, and sadness that I live in a world where this business model can actually be successful.

10 years ago, before the rise of modern consoles, if a game developer tried to make you pay even $1 over the retail price for anything less than a FULL EXPANSION of the game, they'd be laughed right out of the industry.

I suppose gamers back then just had more common sense. Any imbecile can operate a smartphone and download an app, so this is what we've come to.

For the amount of money these fools are spending on this game, I could purchase an XBOX One, a PS4, a brand new gaming PC, and every single quality game on the market which would give me thousands of hours of enjoyment. But nah, I'd rather buy some gems so that I can have the best armor in some stupid phone game for about a week.

Lol, so much truth.

[McRay]

Someone spending hundreds here can be just as entertained as someone spending hundreds on WoW.

Incorrect. I played WoW for a year. Cost me $39.99 for the game, $39.99 for BC, and $17 x 12 for subscription.

So for $284, I was able to get hundreds of hours of enjoyment from a game that has a million times more content than K&D does. I was also able to stay at the top of the totem pole in terms of gear, because the only limiting factor in that game was time played.

Contrastly, $284 in this game gets you pretty much nothing. Something like 2200 gems? That wouldn't even last you a few months.

Although the enjoyment offered from both games may be similar, the content offered, and the VALUE at which it's offered, is completely out of wack.

[McRay]

Is McRay King Mark's alt? He likes to argue with Eun just as much....and makes even less sense.

Ouch man, I realize you're in a spending guild and my words are insulting to you, but comparing me to that buffoon is just hurtful.

King Mark can barely form a coherent sentence. And I haven't even responded to Eun once. He's just a troll, I pretty much have him on ignore.

I think buster may be a troll as well, not sure yet.

[Eunuchorn]

Dear McRay, this game isn't an MMO. Frankly, I'm surprised the console industry is as strong as it is. Theres just too many people in the world playing low quality crap.

I'm also surprised people who don't raid play games like WoW. Who cares how much content there is, boooring. Not to mention immobile. Stop thinking in terms of materialism & value fluctuation. Money = money = slave mechanism. Who cares how much is spent on what where.

[busteroaf]

Incorrect. I played WoW for a year. Cost me $39.99 for the game, $39.99 for BC, and $17 x 12 for subscription.

So for $284, I was able to get hundreds of hours of enjoyment from a game that has a million times more content than K&D does. I was also able to stay at the top of the totem pole in terms of gear, because the only limiting factor in that game was time played.

Contrastly, $284 in this game gets you pretty much nothing. Something like 2200 gems? That wouldn't even last you a few months.

Although the enjoyment offered from both games may be similar, the content offered, and the VALUE at which it's offered, is completely out of wack.

You say: Incorrect.
I say: Again, that is YOUR opinion, and your experience.

Other people find this game more entertaining than WoW. Content or not, price or not... people can enjoy a game even if you don't, for whatever reason. Just accept that.

[Eunuchorn]

Oh no. Their syntax is horrifically similar.


Ouch man, I realize you're in a spending guild and my words are insulting to you, but comparing me to that buffoon is just hurtful.
King Mark can barely form a coherent sentence. And I haven't even responded to Eun once. He's just a troll, I pretty much have him on ignore.
I think buster may be a troll as well, not sure yet.

You say: Incorrect.
I say: Again, that is YOUR opinion, and your experience.

Other people find this game more entertaining than WoW. Content or not, price or not... people can enjoy a game even if you don't, for whatever reason. Just accept that.

Buster, he is "trying to figure out if you're a troll or not". He's baiting you. King Mark returns.

[paganizer]

Top spender franticly defending investments in K&D. Kinda sad, but each to their own, I guess.

McRay vs Busteroaf : 10 - 0

[busteroaf]

Oh no. Their syntax is horrifically similar.




Buster, he is "trying to figure out if you're a troll or not". He's baiting you. King Mark returns.

He has yet to say "Ha" "lol" or "haha lol" at the end of a sentence/post... frankly, I'm not convinced.

[McRay]

Just accept that.

No I will not.

If everyone just accepted things, nothing would ever change.

There's a lot of things in this world that I won't accept, and spending hundreds of dollars on a simplistic phone game is one of them.

[busteroaf]

Top spender franticly defending investments in K&D. Kinda sad, but each to their own, I guess.

McRay vs Busteroaf : 10 - 0

You only scored that 10-0? I'm impressed. I thought I was getting beat worse.

My defending investments in KnD is based on the entertainment factor. Different people get differing levels of entertainment from everything. That is all. End of story. He keeps saying its a ****ty game, when that is just his opinion. I'm not the only one who disagrees with him on that point.

[Eunuchorn]

Top spender franticly defending investments in K&D. Kinda sad, but each to their own, I guess.

McRay vs Busteroaf : 10 - 0

Buster just wants everyone to be as good a friend with Mr. Gree as we are. He's really a nice guy. You should come play chutes & ladders with us.

[Eunuchorn]

You only scored that 10-0? I'm impressed. I thought I was getting beat worse.

My defending investments in KnD is based on the entertainment factor. Different people get differing levels of entertainment from everything. That is all. End of story. He keeps saying its a ****ty game, when that is just his opinion. I'm not the only one who disagrees with him on that point.

You are all ignoring my point. You're comparing nothing with nothing. So what does it matter how much I spend on this or that? Numbers on a computer screen, my friends.

[Tachycardia]

He has yet to say "Ha" "lol" or "haha lol" at the end of a sentence/post... frankly, I'm not convinced.

Or the always clever "Cheers!"

[McRay]

You only scored that 10-0? I'm impressed. I thought I was getting beat worse.

My defending investments in KnD is based on the entertainment factor. Different people get differing levels of entertainment from everything. That is all. End of story. He keeps saying its a ****ty game, when that is just his opinion. I'm not the only one who disagrees with him on that point.

Obviously we have differing opinions on the relationship between quality and value. Fair enough, I respect your opinion.

But let me just end off with this thought:

If everyone thinks like you, we end up with... well, what we have now. A simplistic game that dangles a carrot on a stick, and a developer that has board room meetings about the best way to scam you into spending more money. (which is what this guild war is all about, and why this thread exists).

If everyone thinks like me, developers are forced to actually care about the product they sell, because they know if they just try to scam us, that we won't give them any of our money. This results in more competition between developers, which results in more games, better games, and better prices.

Regardless of who is right and wrong in this discussion, which of the above scenarios would you rather have?

[Sparkle_DPA]

Im confused. I dont see how this is a scam. All of us know that the war is 4 days long and all of us know that it will cost the guild thousands of dollars to get into top 10. For it to qualify as a scam wouldn't the company have to trick us into spending money..? Even the chests I don't consider a scam, they are just stupid. We are all choosing to do it and we know the possible outcomes. Enlighten me :O

[busteroaf]

Obviously we have differing opinions on the relationship between quality and value. Fair enough, I respect your opinion.

But let me just end off with this thought:

If everyone thinks like you, we end up with... well, what we have now. A simplistic game that dangles a carrot on a stick, and a developer that has board room meetings about the best way to scam you into spending more money. (which is what this guild war is all about, and why this thread exists).

If everyone thinks like me, developers are forced to actually care about the product they sell, because they know if they just try to scam us, that we won't give them any of our money. This results in more competition between developers, which results in more games, better games, and better prices.

Regardless of who is right and wrong in this discussion, which of the above scenarios would you rather have?

Your reasoning is fair. But you also mentioned in a previous post how video games used to be pay to play arcade boxes, then home consoles, then more advanced consoles, now mobile. It isn't because developers all the sudden just said "lets make crappy games and shake people down for every last bit of money." It is because the world is changing. 10 years ago, people didn't have access to games 24/7 on their phones. They had Snake and Tetris style games. You also didn't have access to every bit of info at your fingertips. Developments in technology did this. People want access to things instantly, because its readily available now. It didn't use to be. And since whatever % of the developed world has smart phones, developers, and well, everyone, decided to cash in on the market.

Hell, if I want to read a book on the toilet, I used to have to pick up a book and bring it with me. Now, instead I can just pull out my phone while dropping my pants, click an app, download the newest Christopher Moore novel and be reading within a few seconds. Is that my fault? Its adapting to today's technology. I don't fault business for having meetings to say "hey, how can we get our products out there even faster and to more people". Do I prefer having a nice hardcover book, or even paperback version of a book? You bet. But for ease of use, you can't beat the current technology with e-readers and similar apps.

Also, no offense but I haven't seen a price drop in video games in ... ever. I remember Nintendo games used to be 20-30, then 30-40, then 40-50. Now $60 is standard for new games, and console games HAVE gotten better, depending on your opinion. Not seeing a price drop because of better games and more competition. If anything, its raised the cost.

[cafedecoy]

Is it just me, or I feel like we are all a bunch of pinatas hung next to each other on a rope waiting for GREE to smack us and we spit out money. This whole reward system, they've been playing the drama of over-rewarding us (beast chest? the fusion boost coughing guardians in the old wars?) and under-rewarding us (current war?) and the lack of consistency is driving us mad and getting us all riled up to spend more gems.

I bet you, now that the rewards are stingier than ever, epic battles will be fought by the very members who kick and cry here lamenting about how stupid the game has become who are secretly hoping that everyone else except them will be dissuaded from spending gems leaving the top prize up for grabs. I also think that there will be about a dozen or so new threads in this very forum with people whining about the prizes and threatening to quit the game only to be overjoyed by... I predict a more generously rewarded quest/war/challenge that GREE will churn up.

We all bicker and fight, but there's one thing we all have in common. That no one here is ready to quit the game just yet. The quitters just do it. They don't declare it, they don't cry about it. They simply delete the app off their phone or ipad or what have you, and move on to do something else to entertain themselves.

[McRay]

Also, no offense but I haven't seen a price drop in video games in ... ever. I remember Nintendo games used to be 20-30, then 30-40, then 40-50. Now $60 is standard for new games, and console games HAVE gotten better, depending on your opinion. Not seeing a price drop because of better games and more competition. If anything, its raised the cost.

I've had variations of this argument on other forums as well, it's not like the problem is exclusive to mobile gaming, it's just more obvious here.

In 2009, I was excited to play Killzone 2 on PS3. It was a pretty good game, but it had some pretty serious balance issues. The "assault" class was ridiculously overpowered, and it was ruining online gameplay. After hundreds of threads on the Guerilla Games forums, we thought for sure the first patch would address this issue. But instead, they released a "DLC map pack" for $9.99. I was disgusted and outraged by their decision to ignore the community, and instead try to cash in on us by releasing these garbage maps, which were nothing but single player maps that were converted into multiplayer.

This was my first experience with the new wave of game development. I was very vocal on those forums about it, but in the end, I was met with a lot of "if you don't like it, don't play it" type of responses. I warned those people that this was just the beginning, and that these companies would simply find ways to milk you for as much as they can, unless you make a stand and show them that you won't tolerate it. Clearly my words fell on deaf ears, because the problem is now much worse in the console community.

The golden age of gaming was the PC gaming market in the late 90's and early 2000's. During these years, companies released amazing, quality games, for reasonable prices. They supported the games for years, interacting with the community, doing everything they could to cater to the needs of their consumers. They HAD to do this, because the PC gaming community was so picky about what they would spend money on (after all, piracy was rampant).

All I'm saying is that if you were lucky enough to be part of that era, you should understand why giving money to a greedy company like GREE or EA is detrimental to all of us as consumers at the end of the day.

[template]

stuff

So how far did your protests get you?

You're not going to get any traction on an issue like this. Whether you like it or not, gaming as an industry has changed so much since the 90s. If you want to prove a point, then don't play this game and spend money where you think you're going to get your money's worth. Unfortunately, you'll find that most of the other "gamers" (and I use this term loosely) aren't going to really care.

From my perspective, games in the past were an investment. You spent X dollars and they gave you a certain amount of quality and replayability and you had a relationship with that gaming company. But with the casualization of gaming, a large part of which comes about because of smartphones, that dynamic has changed. It's no longer a niche market where you had to try and earn revenue from a small subset of the population. Now the potential market is so much larger because of the availability of mobile devices that the marketing/sales dynamic has changed. That's why mobile games can cost a dollar because the potential reach is to millions of people that want to play casual games.

You're fighting an entirely new paradigm based on what you liked in the good ol' days. Those days are gone.

[forcefed4door]

Basically this whole discussion is a way for some dummies trying to justify how dumping a bunch of money into this game is fine/normal. I can't even feel bad for them.

[template]

Basically this whole discussion is a way for some dummies trying to justify how dumping a bunch of money into this game is fine/normal. I can't even feel bad for them.

I don't think it's justification that it's fine or normal to spend money on this game. It's our money and we can spend it however we deem fit. It's the same way you can spend your money on whatever brings you pleasure/entertainment and we can't condemn you for it (well except for certain things which are pretty much universally agreed as bad ideas like drugs). Want to spend on a good meal? Go ahead but some will argue that's a waste of money. Spend on good wine? All pretty much taste the same to me. The list can go on.

Where the discussion has taken a turn is on the argument that it's apparently stupid/silly/wrong to spend this money based on what someone else besides the spender thinks.

[Eunuchorn]

Basically this whole discussion is a way for some dummies trying to justify how dumping a bunch of money into this game is fine/normal. I can't even feel bad for them.

I haven't seen anyone asking for your pity? Go look up the wage disparity between actors/sports star & you. That's not normal. There is a lot of money out there, so much that whatever its actually spent on is trivial. You just don't have any of it & that should bother you. I don't need to justify why or how much money I spend on this game. I'm an economic slave the same as you, & have nothing else to spend money on so who cares.

[forcefed4door]

Don't they have meetings/counseling for game addicts? Just like aa? I think some of you need it lol. Carry on.

[Sparkle_DPA]

Don't they have meetings/counseling for game addicts? Just like aa? I think some of you need it lol. Carry on.

I hope they increase the energy refill to 50 gems. Yer right, the game is not expensive enough.

[jon_funzio]

My thoughts:
- prizes for 11 down aren't great but, for people who don't have good friends and who can't beat boss 43, are desirable.
- Gree would do well to reconsider the reward system, perhaps give you a maxed legendary as a prize for top 25 rather than a non-upgraded legendary.
- I would like it if they removed gems and keys from the reward structure, these encourage people to "freeload", promising points that they have no hope of achieving. Decent armours also do that of course.
-- as a sub point, it would be nice if your performance in every war was attached to your profile for your viewing, this means that everyone would have a record of past scoring.
- Despite the prizes not being great, Guild War is fun - I'll be competing.

- The increasingly over-powered top 10 armours should also lead to considerable levels of top ten consolidation, after all there's no point scoring over 100k points for lower prizes!

[Marco_]

I see my money spent on non-physical things such as computer games as reward for a good job and investment into the creation of future content.
In addition to all the sleazy tricks to maximize people's spending, Gree's new content mostly seems to be of the type "1 of 2 person-days of new artwork, enter some seed numbers into some templates/formulas and hey presto new content for the week/month. I don't see a decent return on my investment there, so I've decided not to invest any more in KnD.
On the other hand, I'll keep spending something like $100/month on anime that I liked, since keeping the anime companies that produce anime I like afloat results in them producing new anime I like. (just wish they would embrace (DRM free) digital file downloads or donation models, so I wouldn't end up with so many obsolete optical discs at home...)

It's just money, but unlike Eunuchorn I care where it ends up.

[EljayK]

Yes, because they are both plain and outdated.

But so are my Air Pegasus 28s, but who's asking. :)

Ha! Jokes on both of you. North Face gore-tex for life.

[EljayK]

Buster just wants everyone to be as good a friend with Mr. Gree as we are. He's really a nice guy. You should come play chutes & ladders with us.

Dude I have the best star trek chutes and ladders game... You have to drive east in that jeep til you hit the ocean though. And when I mean east I mean literally straight east. I think we're on the same longitude.

[Paladineguru]

Wow Hey sun if you don't give a shot I got a crap pair of Nike's ill sell you for 25 grand, at least it will be here in a year

[Marco_]

And obviously, from posting on these forums, YOU, at some point, chose THIS SUB-PAR game for a reason.
- got free points in another game when installing this game and running through the tutorial
- don't mind grind-y games (I'm the silly type of person that farmed the whole forest away in warcraft 1 and 2 storyline levels...) so stuck around; wiki/forum also kept it interesting and I paid some money to max my castle out
- noticed I got bait and switched into a mostly pay to win game and saw dumb setups like for ex. guild war scoring, so now I'm a critic.
- if I'm still playing the game in a few months, using the fair assumption that Gree won't make the game more interesting for me I expect to mostly be playing by then to do things like make screenshots for the wiki...

[Martinus]

Actually, the upcoming guild war is just straight up pointless for #1 down. Most of my team spends MINIMUM 800 gems per war. Yet, we still only get ~150 gems worth of keys & ...gems.

Fix your reward system Gree. It's crap. You know it as well as the community. Typical Corporatocracy spitting in the face of the people propping it up.

Do you realize that you just told us you spend 75,14€ on gems each war and even more... start acting normal and stop spending so many gems on this!

[Epon]

I think the bean-counters at Gree figured out that the top 15-20 guilds bought/spent 90% of the gems in the last war(s), and with Gree being desperate for money (see http://www.gamesinasia.com/gree-offers-voluntary-retirement-to-11-of-workforce-shuts-osaka-office ) they decided to make a big push to get more out of that top 15-20 guild members who will fight tooth and nail (and spend accordingly) for the top 10 spots because anything less than that is worthless.

As for the rest of the players, who only bought/spent 10% of gems, who cares, they won't buy/spend anymore anyway, so why bother giving them anything to fight for.

[Paladineguru]

He's trying to fill an emotional void , and most likely compensating for unusually small genetalia.
This is a fascinating study in psycho manipulation.

Here's the truth. The best in this game have no skill. The grinding of character and armor is across board.

These aren't even important. As the single and only defining factor in "war" is what an idiot is willing to part with.

To ensure victory. There is no new content for those who would moderately spend outside of chests whose chances are so

astronomical they would be illegal in Vegas. This is not a smart business model. It's a milk the cow while we can

Gree as a Company has proven they will not even punish cheating AS long as you spend.

After looking into the public financial records of the company, its obviously on its way out.

[Hildigam]

He's trying to fill an emotional void , and most likely compensating for unusually small genetalia.
This is a fascinating study in psycho manipulation.

Here's the truth. The best in this game have no skill. The grinding of character and armor is across board.

These aren't even important. As the single and only defining factor in "war" is what an idiot is willing to part with.

To ensure victory. There is no new content for those who would moderately spend outside of chests whose chances are so

astronomical they would be illegal in Vegas. This is not a smart business model. It's a milk the cow while we can

Gree as a Company has proven they will not even punish cheating AS long as you spend.


After looking into the public financial records of the company, its obviously on its way out.

Here is the thing. I tried chests ONCE for 100 dollars and got junk. As did most of my guild. So if i can spend 800 gems and get a FOR SURE epic i would do it. So even if it is considered junk by most people i will still get to dominate you.

[Paladineguru]

Here is the thing. I tried chests ONCE for 100 dollars and got junk. As did most of my guild. So if i can spend 800 gems and get a FOR SURE epic i would do it. So even if it is considered junk by most people i will still get to dominate you.

Say that when you figure out its an escalating wallet war. Say that when you spend like that and lose in 12 th place and know that two guilds you fought cheated. Watch them keep that epic with only a slap on the wrist .


Watch the same thing in the second war when royal T was glitching for free war energy refills
Watch gree ban the sacrificial alts they had doing it. And again watch them enjoy for free what you spent to lose

Unless you plan on spending those hundreds every month, your domination usually lasts about a week till they're out milking that cash cow again. And even if you get three epics all top stat. New epics will eclipse them within 90 days. (Moontide)

I'll be playing GTA 5 , and other games with better content.

[shawnk]

After reading most of this thread I think the spenders on here should go all out. Its the right decision. Their money is better in someone else's hand. I don't know gree is that much better but its a start. I think they should spend a minimum 200 dollars on this war. it makes sense to do that for that armor. I agree f real life things like shoes and cloths that armor is worth it.

[Hildigam]

After reading most of this thread I think the spenders on here should go all out. Its the right decision. Their money is better in someone else's hand. I don't know gree is that much better but its a start. I think they should spend a minimum 200 dollars on this war. it makes sense to do that for that armor. I agree f real life things like shoes and cloths that armor is worth it.

Lol? You realize that heavy cashers don't have "either - or" problems. It is shoes, clothes, and armor. I would dare to say most players are 25+ with good jobs cause we all know what a feemium game is before starting. Do I think the rewards are fair? No. Do i think it is poor form on gree's part? Yes. Does that change my plan? Not at all

[Paladineguru]

You do realize that its Not a sure thing. Or really even a likely thing. The top guilds have already consolidated and contain most of those willing to spend that much.


You have better odds in the lottery

[Zyntree]

Top spender franticly defending investments in K&D. Kinda sad, but each to their own, I guess.

McRay vs Busteroaf : 10 - 0

Now come one, I think this is a little unfair. In all the madness that has most recently stopped, I think buster had a few good punches in there. I mean clearly this game doesn't have the content of WoW, and clearly it isn't supposed to. Weclome to the new age of gaming McRay. Casual gamers have taken the pot of gold and run away with it. Now we have Knights and Dragons.

I mean sure, you are right McRay, in that if we didn't spend and demanded better games by not spending, we would probably get them... but in comes casual gamer and they don't know what good games are, so they spend anyway. I'm not saying KnD is not a good game. I like it. It's not worth $100s to me, but then I don't have absurd amounts of disposable income either. If I did, maybe I would fork it up, maybe not. Ragging on others, calling them idiots, stupid, and whatever isn't called for. It's their money. Why be mad cause they spend it? You're not going to get this paradigm shift to create the excellent gaming that you want because that's not how markets or humans at large work. They work like they do, not like you want them to. But I digress... i think the score should be adjusted to something like

McRay - 6 Buster - 3 all those other commentators -1 :)

[template]

Now come one, I think this is a little unfair. In all the madness that has most recently stopped, I think buster had a few good punches in there. I mean clearly this game doesn't have the content of WoW, and clearly it isn't supposed to. Weclome to the new age of gaming McRay. Casual gamers have taken the pot of gold and run away with it. Now we have Knights and Dragons.

I mean sure, you are right McRay, in that if we didn't spend and demanded better games by not spending, we would probably get them... but in comes casual gamer and they don't know what good games are, so they spend anyway. I'm not saying KnD is not a good game. I like it. It's not worth $100s to me, but then I don't have absurd amounts of disposable income either. If I did, maybe I would fork it up, maybe not. Ragging on others, calling them idiots, stupid, and whatever isn't called for. It's their money. Why be mad cause they spend it? You're not going to get this paradigm shift to create the excellent gaming that you want because that's not how markets or humans at large work. They work like they do, not like you want them to. But I digress... i think the score should be adjusted to something like

McRay - 6 Buster - 3 all those other commentators -1 :)

You just said what I said and gave me a -1 :(

[forcefed4door]

Hildigame has no friends!! Lol
Edit- except maybe the ones in his guild and on his "friends list"

[Bearsuo]

I think the bean-counters at Gree figured out that the top 15-20 guilds bought/spent 90% of the gems in the last war(s),

That's typical in market differentiation, the issue being that in most markets, you need the other segments. What was it, that managerial approach - fire the lowest 20% of employees, since they do disproportionate little work, see massive profitability gains... until, inexplicably, the new bottom 20% becomes as unproductive as the previous cohort. In theory, you can cut until you have one super productive employee (ha), but in practice, every cut reduces the organization substantially. Not that we're employees; but that a similar phenomenon appears to occur in consumer segments.

It's why Microsoft used to offer so many variants of Windows - a cheap version for customers who won't pay as much, and then a few price points until you reach Super Ultra Enterprise edition for people with money to blow. Get as much money from everyone as possible. In that case, market confusion set in. And in this case, what's the fun for killers and achievers to achieve first in a one place race? Or against people who have one tenth the stats they do?


and with Gree being desperate for money (see http://www.gamesinasia.com/gree-offers-voluntary-retirement-to-11-of-workforce-shuts-osaka-office )

At the risk of being too revealing, this is what I find the most interesting part of this conversation. I may be a business major. I saw another article that DeNA, GREE, and someone else were larger revenue this year (combined) than the top 12 existing gaming brands (read: Nintendo, et cet) in Japan. But that GREE was facing a mandatory pivot (read: revenue stagnation). These games always attrition, so suggesting that GREE's playbook is causing attrition is silly. The question is, is it optimally exploiting customer willingness to buy on the attrition curve?


As for the rest of the players, who only bought/spent 10% of gems, who cares, they won't buy/spend anymore anyway, so why bother giving them anything to fight for.

Except some of us who are happy to spend a proverbial nickel now and then, a few sinks encouraging us to drop nickels helps empty the purse. I haven't opened a DPC in an age despite having keys, because there's nothing of value in there. The latest offer - open 11, get boosts - is enticing. I think if they just tuned up the lower sinks instead of making the frankly lousy upper sinks (yeah yeah, it's a casino in disguise) would be productive. But it appeals to the false scarcity behavioral short circuit, and clearly is generating some revenue, so it's not all bad. I'm a more conservative spender in game and would have dropped more on them if they A) didn't have such awful results B) had better floors ie, only two stars should be a two pack of fusion boosters c) the good results weren't one in a hojillion. Although hey, maybe it gets the whales to go big and that's enough.

Which is all to say thank you for the rare nugget of a great post to read.

[The Pale Rider]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Has drunk $35 bottles of bud and $15 bottles of water (Actually add a couple of zeros when you're buying bottles). Am I really the only one who's ever paid for bottle service in a club?

[Mr Spock]

I think the bean-counters at Gree figured out that the top 15-20 guilds bought/spent 90% of the gems in the last war(s), and with Gree being desperate for money (see http://www.gamesinasia.com/gree-offers-voluntary-retirement-to-11-of-workforce-shuts-osaka-office ) they decided to make a big push to get more out of that top 15-20 guild members who will fight tooth and nail (and spend accordingly) for the top 10 spots because anything less than that is worthless.

As for the rest of the players, who only bought/spent 10% of gems, who cares, they won't buy/spend anymore anyway, so why bother giving them anything to fight for..

It does appear that the business model is failing for Gree and this is what most of us are complaining about...It wouldn't be that hard to correct...but every time the subject is broached the few existing p2w players that like the failing business model, go on the offensive and act weird and strange. Eunuchorn needs some kind of help...I am worried for that person...

[shawnk]

I think the people who are very defensive and cant see whats going on are the ones that are heavily invested in the game money wise. btw find this war very ironic lol "war of the damned"

[busteroaf]

It does appear that the business model is failing for Gree and this is what most of us are complaining about...It wouldn't be that hard to correct...but every time the subject is broached the few existing p2w players that like the failing business model, go on the offensive and act weird and strange. Eunuchorn needs some kind of help...I am worried for that person...


I think the people who are very defensive and cant see whats going on are the ones that are heavily invested in the game money wise. btw find this war very ironic lol "war of the damned"

In my case it isn't defensive/offensive because I'm a spender. Its defensive/offensive because people complain over and over about how crappy the game is, when they could vote with their wallets and just go to another game. You can see what is going on in this game whether you spend money or not. I know what the game does, how it works, this isn't my first go round with these types of games. I'm not blind to it, and I'm a spender.

And its because these games have been around for a while, and they are still alive and kicking. That is the other point. There are hundreds of these clones, (that continue to pop up daily mind you) that people like you and others have said "they're failing, people are quitting, they're losing money, they'll be out of business in 6 months." Six months later and they've got just as many, if not more players. So much for them failing and going out of business. Also, since it would be easy to correct the business model, how exactly would you go about doing it?

[Mr Spock]

In my case it isn't defensive/offensive because I'm a spender. Its defensive/offensive because people complain over and over about how crappy the game is, when they could vote with their wallets and just go to another game. You can see what is going on in this game whether you spend money or not. I know what the game does, how it works, this isn't my first go round with these types of games. I'm not blind to it, and I'm a spender.

And its because these games have been around for a while, and they are still alive and kicking. That is the other point. There are hundreds of these clones, (that continue to pop up daily mind you) that people like you and others have said "they're failing, people are quitting, they're losing money, they'll be out of business in 6 months." Six months later and they've got just as many, if not more players. So much for them failing and going out of business. Also, since it would be easy to correct the business model, how exactly would you go about doing it?

Buster I like the game and don't complain about spending the money or not.. Gree is laying off work force and closing their Osaka office..they are losing ground hence their business model sucks...my point has been that to be profitable u have got to get a ton of people to spend a little money each month.. Not a few people a lot of money...

An example of how to do this would be to have limited time armor releases with real fusion possibilities....make the combining process take time... the better the armor the longer it takes. So if you get a 1 star it might take 2 hours a 5 star might take 4 days of course u can hurry up the process with gems. Give it a realistic chance to happen and now you will have players trying to build fusion stars through the arena and then hurrying their fusions to see if they can get the armor before it goes away...you should also be able to flat buy them with gems and skip all the other nonsense, or take your chances on the chests. You need to make it possible to get through the fusion process...so people can earn a limited time armor for some palatable amount of money....this type of business model made Dragonvale the number 1 money making game in 2012 of all games including WOW....

This game has the potential to outperform Dragonvale but Gree has got to open its eyes....

[Tachycardia]

Gree is closing offices to concentrate on their North American development from their SF location.

[Mr Spock]

Gree is closing offices to concentrate on their North American development from their SF location.

Very weak performance last qtr.. Shutting down a number of games quietly during the summer...loss of market cap through loss of market share... Offering 200 employees early retirement... This is not a company that is kicking ass...I believe that Gree needs to rethink and retool some of what they do...

[Hildigam]

Hildigame has no friends!! Lol
Edit- except maybe the ones in his guild and on his "friends list"

You need more than that?!!?!?

[-Solo-]

Again, you all keep using examples that don't apply to this scenario.

I drink $2 beers, I drink $8 beers, I drink $200 bottles of Hennessey and Glenfiddich. The point is, these products are PRICED ACCORDING TO THEIR VALUE, AND I CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM.

What I do NOT drink is $35 bottles of Budweiser.

Now imagine every single bar, restaurant, and liquor store only sold ONE type of alcoholic beverage, and it was $35 bottles of Budweiser. This would be fine for the idiots who were already paying that much for such a sh*tty product (a.k.a you), but it really f'ing sucks for the guy who would rather spend that $35 on something that is actually worth $35, like a bottle of Belvedere (a.k.a me).

To me, people that drink $200 are idiots. Yeah, I understand the price increase for it being a club, etc....but you're still an idiot, either as an individual or a group, to spend that much for a crappy bottle of liquor. I've taken part in it before, but it doesn't change the fact that it was money best spent elsewhere. Probably what I can say about money spent in this game, too.

Oh well.

[drygores]

WOW. Over 6000 views in a day. Gotta be a record here. Gree got too greedy.

[busteroaf]

Buster I like the game and don't complain about spending the money or not.. Gree is laying off work force and closing their Osaka office..they are losing ground hence their business model sucks...my point has been that to be profitable u have got to get a ton of people to spend a little money each month.. Not a few people a lot of money...

An example of how to do this would be to have limited time armor releases with real fusion possibilities....make the combining process take time... the better the armor the longer it takes. So if you get a 1 star it might take 2 hours a 5 star might take 4 days of course u can hurry up the process with gems. Give it a realistic chance to happen and now you will have players trying to build fusion stars through the arena and then hurrying their fusions to see if they can get the armor before it goes away...you should also be able to flat buy them with gems and skip all the other nonsense, or take your chances on the chests. You need to make it possible to get through the fusion process...so people can earn a limited time armor for some palatable amount of money....this type of business model made Dragonvale the number 1 money making game in 2012 of all games including WOW....

This game has the potential to outperform Dragonvale but Gree has got to open its eyes....

Last I checked... Dragonvale doesn't have pvp. Does it? Having those limited time dragons is just a "look at me with my shiny _____ dragon that earns me 500 gold a minute!" You don't get some grand advantage over someone by being able to buy your gear. Being able to outright buy armors gives you an instant advantage over other players in this game. At least with the lottery and fusion options, everyone has the same RNG chance, not a case of who's wallet is fatter. And yes, you can spend money to win arena, but we all know the rewards are really nothing to brag about for the amount of gems spent, and you could spend $1000 and still never get anything good from chest while someone who spends $5 gets epics. But that is how a real lottery works too.

And your limited time armor releases? Those are called weekly bosses. But you want them in fusion, so you're banking on people being greedy and speeding up their armors each time they realize they're getting a crappy 1* or 2* fusion... what happens when you run out of fusion stones or armors to fuze with? Just buy more according to you. At least in the current system, you'd have to farm and then craft. Yes, you can speed up crafting every time and have instant armors, but you are still limited by how much you farm. You can't buy more potions, or fusion stones, and you can only use so many friends a day to help with farming. If having 50,000 gems in dragonvale is my only limit to getting a new dragon, where getting it or not doesn't affect another player, that isn't much of a limit if I have the money.

Also, where are you getting your data saying Dragonvale out-grossed WoW. I can't find any data on this, so I'm curious where you're finding it.

[Mr Spock]

Last I checked... Dragonvale doesn't have pvp. Does it? Having those limited time dragons is just a "look at me with my shiny _____ dragon that earns me 500 gold a minute!" You don't get some grand advantage over someone by being able to buy your gear. Being able to outright buy armors gives you an instant advantage over other players in this game. At least with the lottery and fusion options, everyone has the same RNG chance, not a case of who's wallet is fatter. And yes, you can spend money to win arena, but we all know the rewards are really nothing to brag about for the amount of gems spent, and you could spend $1000 and still never get anything good from chest while someone who spends $5 gets epics. But that is how a real lottery works too.

And your limited time armor releases? Those are called weekly bosses. But you want them in fusion, so you're banking on people being greedy and speeding up their armors each time they realize they're getting a crappy 1* or 2* fusion... what happens when you run out of fusion stones or armors to fuze with? Just buy more according to you. At least in the current system, you'd have to farm and then craft. Yes, you can speed up crafting every time and have instant armors, but you are still limited by how much you farm. You can't buy more potions, or fusion stones, and you can only use so many friends a day to help with farming. If having 50,000 gems in dragonvale is my only limit to getting a new dragon, where getting it or not doesn't affect another player, that isn't much of a limit if I have the money.

Also, where are you getting your data saying Dragonvale out-grossed WoW. I can't find any data on this, so I'm curious where you're finding it.

I don't remember where I read it as it was early in the year...here is a December 2012 link talking about money makers...http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2012/12/13/apple-lists-top-apps-of-2012/. I remember that dragonvale posted a huge Christmas blah blah...

What I am trying to point out is the business model could be so much better..U keep defending it... Gree can still give the great exclusive epics in the guild wars....but they need something different 4 the masses. It isn't working...

[Tachycardia]

Jesus titty ****ing christ, it's a game.

Either play and choose to pay or don't for ****s sake.

[Sparkle_DPA]

Im in the mood to have a 20 page argument with busteroaf right now. Just waiting for the right moment when he says something i actually disagree with...

[busteroaf]

Im in the mood to have a 20 page argument with busteroaf right now. Just waiting for the right moment when he says something i actually disagree with...

Don't bother. I'm going out to the bar to try and piss off a friend who is a Red Sox fan. I hate Red Sox fans simply because they are Red Sox fans, thus I cheer against them. Always. Before you ask, no, I don't like the Yankees either.

Detroit Tigers fan.

[The Pale Rider]

To me, people that drink $200 are idiots. Yeah, I understand the price increase for it being a club, etc....but you're still an idiot, either as an individual or a group, to spend that much for a crappy bottle of liquor. I've taken part in it before, but it doesn't change the fact that it was money best spent elsewhere. Probably what I can say about money spent in this game, too.

Oh well.

The point was to elicit the same sentiment by illustrating a more extreme example of what most would deem "wasteful" spending. If you are entertaining a client that will give you a $500M deal, then a $5000 bar tab is eminently reasonable. If you are worth $100 million, avoiding an hour of time doing something you don't want to do is worth a lot (I'll allow that this game self-selects out of this pool of people by it's nature).

[Daenerys]

I don't want to get into the whole spender vs. non-spender debate.

To me, a successful business has to have a range of customers: a few who are willing to spend a lot, and a lot who are willing to spend a little.

That's why every single successful prestigious fashion houses have several diffusion lines with lower price points that appeal to the masses. Or they branch into cosmetics, perfume, etc. (Hermes was the last hold out before they started selling perfumes. Even with handbags starting @ $6,000 and a 2-year long worldwide waiting list, they are not nearly as profitable as other fashion houses.)

Why? Because it's much easier for Tom Ford / Givenchy / Chanel / Louis Vuitton / Prada to sell 500,000 lipsticks / perfumes / t-shirts for $50 each, than 50 couture dresses for $500,000 each.

When GREE does a guild war like this, they are only selling the $500,000 couture dress. The select few who can afford it will buy it, while the masses are now only window shopping and not dropping a dime.

[Zyntree]

You just said what I said and gave me a -1 :(

Template, you don't like getting a point? Better than none, right? And did I? Guess I'm just reinforcing it :)

This war is... Wait for it... Stupid! But I'm still gonna have fun playing, if not spending.

[The Pale Rider]

Thinking we can sum up the point of this whole thread with:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[McRay]

You're not going to get this paradigm shift to create the excellent gaming that you want because that's not how markets or humans at large work. They work like they do, not like you want them to. But I digress... i think the score should be adjusted to something like

McRay - 6 Buster - 3 all those other commentators -1

Good point. Not sure why I got so worked up about this last night... basically just ranting about the gaming industry in general, not necessarily the spenders who facilitate it.

I stand by my opinions in this thread, but I should clarify that I don't really care as much as I seemed to let on last night.

I will continue to play K&D in my spare time, without spending a penny. Spenders will continue to spend, and enjoy being dominant over people like me. Eventually the game will die, and we'll all move on to something else.

[gardibolt]

Busteroaf, Max Scherzer rocks. What did they trade for him, some spare change and pocket lint?

[dragonx254]

Don't bother. I'm going out to the bar to try and piss off a friend who is a Red Sox fan. I hate Red Sox fans simply because they are Red Sox fans, thus I cheer against them. Always. Before you ask, no, I don't like the Yankees either.

Detroit Tigers fan.

Then you instantly have my respect.

I am also a Tigers fan.

[iH8t2lose2]

I think the people who are very defensive and cant see whats going on are the ones that are heavily invested in the game money wise. btw find this war very ironic lol "war of the damned"
You said lol twice in a row, you must be King Mark.

[shawnk]

You said lol twice in a row, you must be King Mark.
lol I don't know who king mark is but I was so drunk that night both braves and the falcons were losing so I didn't remember I said that lol. funny stuff it actually made me lol that I didn't remember :)

[Bax]

Gree has heard your complaints guys and has fixed it up so now all are treated equally in the upcoming GW. Their fix is the release of a Fire/air epic in the Raven Chest that will own the epic given out as a reward for those in the top 10.

And you thought Gree did not listen to you :p

[Sparkle_DPA]

and of course gree continues with their stupidity and release an epic chest the same time as the war and it COUNTERS the war epic. hollyyy ****, and i thought bigpoint was bad

[Pilfer]

Our guild will try for top 10, without great expectations; we've got at least one member who has opened many chests for zero epics, so he could use any epic, even if it's made redundant by others; but yeah--the law of diminishing returns haunts most things in K&D. They need more quest expansion for 100+ players so we're not just farming for fusion stones and killing beasts. They could add an intra-guild training grounds, too, where guild members can challenge each other and test out their armor order, etc. Yammering.

[Tachycardia]

Our guild will try for top 10, without great expectations; we've got at least one member who has opened many chests for zero epics, so he could use any epic, even if it's made redundant by others; but yeah--the law of diminishing returns haunts most things in K&D. They need more quest expansion for 100+ players so we're not just farming for fusion stones and killing beasts. They could add an intra-guild training grounds, too, where guild members can challenge each other and test out their armor order, etc. Yammering.

Add them as a friend and battle them