Replacement for Swamp Shaman +?

[~Nate~]

Is this new epic boss a good replacement for swamp shaman +?

[Gabzor89]

The + version of the current epic boss is definitely better than swamp shaman+, as the last 3 Earth/Water bosses have been. Slimelord 9 weeks ago, Jackalope 16 weeks ago, Deep Dragon 24 weeks ago, all have + versions superior to swamp shaman+.

If we're talking about the non+ version of the epic boss, I don't have the exact stats, but I estimate the total stats of the current boss (non+) to be about 100-200 more than swamp shaman+, with slightly lower defense but significantly higher attack.

[Iamofownage]

Yes! It's a great replacement for it!

[Street Shark]

Totally is

[Marco_]

Nate, if the Clayplate in your signature is non-plus and the banner for this boss is correct, then it's also a replacement for that.
new boss plus armor: 2530 combined stats, Clay non-plus: 2389, Clay+ 2599.

[Lord Of The Infernal]

Nate, if the Clayplate in your signature is non-plus and the banner for this boss is correct, then it's also a replacement for that.
new boss plus armor: 2530 combined stats, Clay non-plus: 2389, Clay+ 2599.

Thank ^_^ Thank ^_^

[~Nate~]

Thank ^_^ Thank ^_^
IT IS NON-PLUS... This epic boss will be a strugle for me :/

[Lord Of The Infernal]

IT IS NON-PLUS... This epic boss will be a strugle for me :/

No worry you had a guardian battlegear to help u :O

[~Nate~]

No worry you had a guardian battlegear to help u :O
one good armor............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................
I'll go for + anyways

[Synovia]

Thing to remember here is that the split elements are much harder to use than the stacked ones. Its a decent armor, but Bear is much better. And the one after this will probably be too.


Gabzor, are you sure of those numbers? If so, thats interesting that we're getting a Water/Stone basically every 8 weeks, while we haven't had, say Fire/Water for 17 weeks

[~Nate~]

Thing to remember here is that the split elements are much harder to use than the stacked ones. Its a decent armor, but Bear is much better. And the one after this will probably be too.


Gabzor, are you sure of those numbers? If so, thats interesting that we're getting a Water/Stone basically every 8 weeks, while we haven't had, say Fire/Water for 17 weeks
Gree's logic

[Gabzor89]

Thing to remember here is that the split elements are much harder to use than the stacked ones. Its a decent armor, but Bear is much better. And the one after this will probably be too.


Gabzor, are you sure of those numbers? If so, thats interesting that we're getting a Water/Stone basically every 8 weeks, while we haven't had, say Fire/Water for 17 weeks

Yep, I'm sure of those numbers, I keep a log of all bosses. However, I doubt there will be any pattern for bosses outside of boss events.

Like you said, we haven't had Fire/Water for 17 weeks (though on my log Jian is 19 bosses ago), while Earth/Air hasn't appeared since Tortoiseshell 21 weeks ago and Wingwurm 26 weeks ago.

And yet, combinations like Earth/Spirit has appeared multiple times: Armor of the bear last week, Assassin's Shroud 8 weeks ago, Mantle of the Beast 18 weeks ago. Similarly for Fire/Spirit: Aegis of Fallen 6 wks ago, Pyromancer 14 wks ago, Admiral Hateheart 24wks ago.

Of course, I'm always one to suspect conspiracy theories, like how they refuse to release a Earth/Air boss, so that people who want to counter Maelstrom and CR have to buy chests to try and get Aegis of the Dragon or Tectonic :P

I shall just continue to collect data and postulate...

[MrRiver]

Yep, I'm sure of those numbers, I keep a log of all bosses. However, I doubt there will be any pattern for bosses outside of boss events.

Like you said, we haven't had Fire/Water for 17 weeks (though on my log Jian is 19 bosses ago), while Earth/Air hasn't appeared since Tortoiseshell 21 weeks ago and Wingwurm 26 weeks ago.

And yet, combinations like Earth/Spirit has appeared multiple times: Armor of the bear last week, Assassin's Shroud 8 weeks ago, Mantle of the Beast 18 weeks ago. Similarly for Fire/Spirit: Aegis of Fallen 6 wks ago, Pyromancer 14 wks ago, Admiral Hateheart 24wks ago.

Of course, I'm always one to suspect conspiracy theories, like how they refuse to release a Earth/Air boss, so that people who want to counter Maelstrom and CR have to buy chests to try and get Aegis of the Dragon or Tectonic :P

I shall just continue to collect data and postulate...

Do you keep a google doc of these results by any chance? I know a lot of people who would love to get their hands on numbers like that.

[Synovia]

Of course, I'm always one to suspect conspiracy theories, like how they refuse to release a Earth/Air boss, so that people who want to counter Maelstrom and CR have to buy chests to try and get Aegis of the Dragon or Tectonic :P

The thing is, we have had patterns... they just seem to always stop when they're going to hit air/earth. So yeah, I kind of agree with your conspiracy ideas.

[busteroaf]

The thing is, we have had patterns... they just seem to always stop when they're going to hit air/earth. So yeah, I kind of agree with your conspiracy ideas.

Conspiracy or not, we've had a bunch of F/S stuff, a bunch of W/E...

We also had Wurm and Tortise within 5 weeks of each other, both E/A. It just happens that its been around 21 weeks since. Just like its been ~19 weeks since a F/W boss (Jian). You'd think with all the other bosses, F/S bosses, they'd release something F/W a little more regularly too, but I wouldn't say its a conspiracy.

[Gabzor89]

Do you keep a google doc of these results by any chance? I know a lot of people who would love to get their hands on numbers like that.

For now I have it on an excel file with like 10 tabs on everything knd. I tried to copy and paste into google docs, but there was too much data that I had to copy and paste multiple times for a single sheet, then I got lazy and gave up.

I believe the past bosses info can also be found on http://knights-and-dragons.wikia.com/wiki/Bosses

[Helena G Wells]

You don't have to copypasta that data. If your excel is less than 20 MB, you should be able to just upload it straight into your Google Drive (make sure to turn conversion on in your settings).

[Gabzor89]

You don't have to copypasta that data. If your excel is less than 20 MB, you should be able to just upload it straight into your Google Drive (make sure to turn conversion on in your settings).

thanks for the info, didn't know that. will try that sometime

[EljayK]

Fire/Spirit is very popular because it's difficult to level. The stats are normally a little more proportional to that in the fact that fire/spirit always starts the 'next creep' of power level. Fire/water is very easy to level and ruins that. Fire/water denominates the value of effort put into fire/spirit. So fire/spirit is meant to be a combat/arena heavy armor. It faded out for a while, but with Aegis is back again.

If anyone could check their boss log, I have a question: of the last 24 weeks since Admiral Hateheart, what percentage of armors has been spirit? 2 of the dragon bosses, 3 earth/spirit, 3 spirit/fire, a number of spirit/water. Spirit has been extremely popular for a while now. (two spirit monos specifically in memory since hateheart.)

[Gabzor89]

Faerie Dragon Swam (Mono Spirit - 3 weeks after Admiral)
Sirens (Water/Spirit - 5 weeks after Admiral)
Sasquatch (Earth/Spirit - 7 weeks after Admiral)
Deva (Fire/Spirit - 10 weeks after Admiral)
Eurus (Water/Spirit - 12 weeks after Admiral)
Notus (Air/Spirit - 14 weeks after Admiral)
Nerezza the Assassin (Earth/Spirit - 17 weeks after Admiral)
Dorar the Fallen (Fire/Spirit - 18 weeks after Admiral)
Ice Lich (Mono Spirit - 22 weeks after Admiral)
Beringar (Earth/Spirit - 24 weeks after Admiral)

10/24 of the bosses have the Spirit element, about 41%

[EljayK]

Yeah that's intense

[Harbear]

thanks for the info, didn't know that. will try that sometime

This interested me and I created a quick table/line graph of the total EBA+ armor stats since I've started playing. I will update this file with earlier bosses at a later time. Might even do a little forecasting one I collect more data...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak27-FVxC59ddDg5MXJsQmsxSVpUdDFCTG42Z0VBX3c&usp=sharing

[The Pale Rider]

This interested me and I created a quick table/line graph of the total EBA+ armor stats since I've started playing. I will update this file with earlier bosses at a later time. Might even do a little forecasting one I collect more data...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak27-FVxC59ddDg5MXJsQmsxSVpUdDFCTG42Z0VBX3c&usp=sharing

You need to go back further. Just look at someone who's been on a long time and the order of bosses is in the profile. Then add data from armors chart. You'll find that GREE releases boss armor in stages such that everything fromt he prior stage is relatively useless ocne the new stage starts (i.e. 15-20% weaker). I've been through three of these stages. The key point being that it's not incremental increases with each new boss armor, it's staged increases. i would add that mono loses around 150 points from loss of element bonus - so those 5 could be another interim stage.

[Eunuchorn]

Surely this isn't a real thread.

[Musketeer]

You need to go back further. Just look at someone who's been on a long time and the order of bosses is in the profile. Then add data from armors chart. You'll find that GREE releases boss armor in stages such that everything fromt he prior stage is relatively useless ocne the new stage starts (i.e. 15-20% weaker). I've been through three of these stages. The key point being that it's not incremental increases with each new boss armor, it's staged increases. i would add that mono loses around 150 points from loss of element bonus - so those 5 could be another interim stage.

The problem this time round is that Epics have already trumped these Legendaries. Even if you do max out a new set of armor that's better than your previous Legendary set, it's still not going to get you very far in the Arena of Guild Wars. It closes the gap a little, that's all.

The game is still more stratified into the haves and have-nots.

[Synovia]

Surely this isn't a real thread.

Said every poster ever who saw each thread you started.

[Eunuchorn]

Said every poster ever who saw each thread you started.

Click "View Started Threads" under my name & say it again you little pissant. Nice join date btw.

[Bearsuo]

Surely this isn't a real thread.

Stop calling me Shirley!

Edit: In Response to Syl-whatever, I shared Eunuchorn's disbelief. I mean, seriously, IS THIS NUMBER BIGGER THAN THAT NUMBER?...

[-Solo-]

How to math?

[ilvtfu]

You need to go back further. Just look at someone who's been on a long time and the order of bosses is in the profile. Then add data from armors chart. You'll find that GREE releases boss armor in stages such that everything fromt he prior stage is relatively useless ocne the new stage starts (i.e. 15-20% weaker). I've been through three of these stages. The key point being that it's not incremental increases with each new boss armor, it's staged increases. i would add that mono loses around 150 points from loss of element bonus - so those 5 could be another interim stage.

All the data you want is here.

http://knights-and-dragons.wikia.com/wiki/Bosses

[EljayK]

This interested me and I created a quick table/line graph of the total EBA+ armor stats since I've started playing. I will update this file with earlier bosses at a later time. Might even do a little forecasting one I collect more data...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak27-FVxC59ddDg5MXJsQmsxSVpUdDFCTG42Z0VBX3c&usp=sharing

Here.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1IdtlQqj3EdHR5dHNkWDJjWFFZRERXZk1lOGFzW nc&usp=sharing

I don't do line graphs. Also didn't include elements, or percentage increase from previous data. This is just to show how things have risen.

[Musketeer]

Having used EljayK's chart to plot a graph, the steps are not obvious until Twin Jian, which distinctly started a new plateau. Leviathan was the next obvious step up.

[Synovia]

It's actually been a relatively smooth growth curve. Bounces around, but keeps a pretty steady rate of growth overall. It also shows that the monos being 2500 wasn't really a jump per se, but a correction to the original growth rate from the stagnancy during the ancient dragons/slimelord/dorar/assassin.

http://s18.postimg.org/neevwo7ih/Capture.jpg

[Deatux]

I would vote to yes its better.

[Marco_]

The sheet distorts things a bit, since it doesn't take into accopunt guild element bonusses.
Dorar -> Leviathan is dual -> mono, so in effect less than the 6.36% bump listed there
Ember Lizard -> Beringar is mono -> dual, so in effect more than the 1.20% bump listed there.

edit: the same for the graph. Would be more realistic for the average person if you add something like 4-5% per element. (not sure if the same should be done for pre-guild armors... How did Gree handle that?..)

[EljayK]

The sheet distorts things a bit, since it doesn't take into accopunt guild element bonusses.
Dorar -> Leviathan is dual -> mono, so in effect less than the 6.36% bump listed there
Ember Lizard -> Beringar is mono -> dual, so in effect more than the 1.20% bump listed there.

edit: the same for the graph. Would be more realistic for the average person if you add something like 4-5% per element. (not sure if the same should be done for pre-guild armors... How did Gree handle that?..)

I'll look into adding 10% to duals and 5% for non-duals some time this weekend. It's a valid point, and one I hadn't considered. It changes a lot of things drastically. As for how pre-guild armors were handled...no idea. I don't think they were. Do we know what boss was out the second week of guilds? (first week or so there was a flat 2% to a single element. Now elemental choice only effects possible insignia). Would be good to know to see where that power jump started.

[Synovia]

It's a valid point, but I'd bet its one that Gree hasn't considered. I'd think they probably have a forecasted inflation rate. It's pretty linear from about boss 5 to present.

[Marco_]

Fun trivia: I had 10 DPC keys left which I used on this "5x" DPC, so on my 10th key Gree decides to troll me with a Clayplate non-plus, which I mentioned on page 1 is outclassed by this boss+... -_-

[Marco_]

Hmm, so extrapolating from that sheet/graph, I guess boss+ will catch up to Moontide non-plus in about 6-8 weeks?

[Justx]

Is it worth leveling moon non plus then at this point?

[Olgar]

depends on what gear you currently has lol

[Justx]

Well I have maxed blackfrost normal for those elements.

[Sakino]

Dont worry whit moontide. Just 250 stats circa of differences from boss plus are not worth the double ep cost and triple gold cost. Water spirit it self is something not really useful.... I have one recently fused, but relegated at 50.

[Justx]

So you're saying I should wait for s/w boss?

[diseasedmeat]

What lvl u get the + version at?

[Bryanv2]

What lvl u get the + version at?

At level 43.