Free to play players, read please.

[NickkyDC]

So one of the biggest things I see and read, I dont pay so im at an unfair advantage.

Well let me bring a case into this. First yes, you are by it being harder for you to obtain what you want. This game though is fully Free to play, and let me show how.

Using no armors from chests, I have gotten my self to + version bosses based on my armors and my friends, Now at this point, I can usually make it to 51, given I take the time to do so.

Point is, at 60 kills which is very possible(hard? yes but who wants a game thats too easy?) you get 5 dp keys. thats 100 gems a week, roughly 15 dollars of free money a week if you put the dedicated time into earning them, not to mention the 8 gold keys i personally obtain which is 80 gems and puts the grand total a little over 20 free dollars a week if level 60 is reached.

Now i dont want to hear its impossible its not, save up your boss armors, your fusion armors that are strongest, dont be an idiot, and find some good bossing friends and your on your way to victory.

NOW comes the big point,

recently we had the 50 chests = free aegis+, yes it takes a while, but after 10 weeks of saving you could have had that.

now by the law of chance, the more you consume in one go the better your chances. If you save enough for 5 sets of 11 chests, then you should have a relative chance of obtaining something good.

so shut up, and if you want what everyone else has put your nose to the grind and get it, for free or not. if you dont have time to play like that or money, then stop playing and go play candy crush. This is an rpg, not a small game to play for 5 minutes a day.

[Tachycardia]

So one of the biggest things I see and read, I dont pay so im at an unfair advantage.

Well let me bring a case into this. First yes, you are by it being harder for you to obtain what you want. This game though is fully Free to play, and let me show how.

Using no armors from chests, I have gotten my self to + version bosses based on my armors and my friends, Now at this point, I can usually make it to 51, given I take the time to do so.

Point is, at 60 kills which is very possible(hard? yes but who wants a game thats too easy?) you get 5 dp keys. thats 100 gems a week, roughly 15 dollars of free money a week if you put the dedicated time into earning them, not to mention the 8 gold keys i personally obtain which is 80 gems and puts the grand total a little over 20 free dollars a week if level 60 is reached.

Now i dont want to hear its impossible its not, save up your boss armors, your fusion armors that are strongest, dont be an idiot, and find some good bossing friends and your on your way to victory.

NOW comes the big point,

recently we had the 50 chests = free aegis+, yes it takes a while, but after 10 weeks of saving you could have had that.

now by the law of chance, the more you consume in one go the better your chances. If you save enough for 5 sets of 11 chests, then you should have a relative chance of obtaining something good.

so shut up, and if you want what everyone else has put your nose to the grind and get it, for free or not. if you dont have time to play like that or money, then stop playing and go play candy crush. This is an rpg, not a small game to play for 5 minutes a day.

That's crossing the line

[NickkyDC]

That's crossing the line

LOL hey i enjoy some candy crush from time to time im just saying stop whining and do something about life

[Tachycardia]

LOL hey i enjoy some candy crush from time to time im just saying stop whining and do something about life

The nurses at work play it constantly to the point I hear the songs when I try to sleep at night.

[drygores]

I've yet to hit 60 myself. 51 is the most I've got. Even with 80+ lvl 100+ friends. Even this week all I use is friends with the new forge. I have gotten a full deck of legendary+. My energy almost never stays at 10( except at night for 2 hours). Am I missing something on how to do it for free? I thought it was mainly for gem spenders or multiple epics.

[Mr Spock]

Pretty good...nikky

[Unresolved]

I've yet to hit 60 myself. 51 is the most I've got. Even with 80+ lvl 100+ friends. Even this week all I use is friends with the new forge. I have gotten a full deck of legendary+. My energy almost never stays at 10( except at night for 2 hours). Am I missing something on how to do it for free? I thought it was mainly for gem spenders or multiple epics.

I don't think you can hit 60 without a few gems. I need to spend 22 gems on day 1 to hit boss 60. If it's a hard boss for me, I may need to spend some gems to kill boss 60.

[deathexe]

I don't think you can hit 60 without a few gems. I need to spend 22 gems on day 1 to hit boss 60. If it's a hard boss for me, I may need to spend some gems to kill boss 60.

I'm at 57 of the boss now, and I'll probably be able to hit 60 before the new epic boss starts with enough time to regenerate to 10 EE. No gems spent on energy so far.

[BobSaget1]

Honestly I disagree with you, that would be putting too much time into knights, during weekdays with work shifts + school, I don't have the time to check exactly every couple hours to unload. Then I have to get some time to sleep. I can usually make it to 43 but no further, just not enough time.

[drygores]

I'm at 57 of the boss now, and I'll probably be able to hit 60 before the new epic boss starts with enough time to regenerate to 10 EE. No gems spent on energy so far.

Are you using epics though? This seems to be for people who dont spend, or like myself still unlucky to not pull an epic after spending lol

[Unresolved]

I'm at 57 of the boss now, and I'll probably be able to hit 60 before the new epic boss starts with enough time to regenerate to 10 EE. No gems spent on energy so far.

Very impressive. I knew it was mathematically possible, but I didn't bother to figure out if the friends would work out correctly. I think I can only get to 55/56 on an epic boss without spending gems. Do you wake up throughout the night to use EE?

[busteroaf]

Honestly I disagree with you, that would be putting too much time into knights, during weekdays with work shifts + school, I don't have the time to check exactly every couple hours to unload. Then I have to get some time to sleep. I can usually make it to 43 but no further, just not enough time.

In this situation unfortunately, you are putting your life first. There is nothing wrong with that by any stretch, but you are setting boundaries for yourself which prevent you from attaining many things that others can/do regularly.

This is just the same as playing an MMO with end game raid schedules. If you don't fit the schedules of your guild, you either find a new guild with different raid times, or you end up having to say "you know what, I can't raid" and you end up accepting the fact and doing what you can do in game still, or you find a new game that is better suited to you. Or, you could always quit whatever is causing you to not be able to raid in the first place, but ... that one gets really tricky.

[-Solo-]

Very impressive. I knew it was mathematically possible, but I didn't bother to figure out if the friends would work out correctly. I think I can only get to 55/56 on an epic boss without spending gems. Do you wake up throughout the night to use EE?

No, you just have to have 2 good counter armors, get somewhat lucky with some EE drops, and proper EE/friend usage.

59/60 was the only stages I had to go at it a second time to finish. 1 blaze/1 forge+ and 2 forge+ friends. The boss is ridiculously easy with forge/forge+ friends.

It just depends if your life schedule allows you to fight the boss before you reach 10 EE.

[Sparkle_DPA]

Candy Crush made my brain melt last time i played it.

[Unresolved]

No, you just have to have 2 good counter armors, get somewhat lucky with some EE drops, and proper EE/friend usage.

59/60 was the only stages I had to go at it a second time to finish. 1 blaze/1 forge+ and 2 forge+ friends. The boss is ridiculously easy with forge/forge+ friends.

It just depends if your life schedule allows you to fight the boss before you reach 10 EE.

Of course you need good armors. I run Eurus/Forge/Moon/Forge/Forge. But if I didn't buy the 25 EE, I'm not sure I would've finished 60 this week. Maybe 59, not really sure how my friend situation would have panned out. I'm slated to finish boss 60 in an hour or two. That would give me another day-and-a-half of leeway.

[knights]

I think the OP's main point is:

IF YOU ARE CHEAP, SPEND THE TIME.

All these whining about Pay To Win are from those that are CHEAP and WANT IT EASY. The recommendation is pretty good, go play candy crush and melt your brain if you want it easy.

[Joshx135]

This game is p2w but no as severe as other games. You can spend $10000 on chests and get nothing. Buying gems gives you an advantage but it does not automatically make you the best in the game.

[gnolaum]

Very nice post OP.

I'm perfectly willing to spend; but *NOT* on chests. Luckily the LTQ gave me Prince keys and beast keys which gave me Nemesis and Beastmaster. Nemesis got me Armor of the Bear+, and the last war got me Skyguard+, so I consider myself set.

I just hope there is a water/air epic boss before there is a fire boss, or I'm screwed (for that one boss anyway).

[deathexe]

Of course you need good armors. I run Eurus/Forge/Moon/Forge/Forge. But if I didn't buy the 25 EE, I'm not sure I would've finished 60 this week. Maybe 59, not really sure how my friend situation would have panned out. I'm slated to finish boss 60 in an hour or two. That would give me another day-and-a-half of leeway.

Just wanted to point out, my setup is jian+/forge+/admiral+ and two forge+ friends.

[dragonx254]

In this situation unfortunately, you are putting your life first. There is nothing wrong with that by any stretch, but you are setting boundaries for yourself which prevent you from attaining many things that others can/do regularly.

This is just the same as playing an MMO with end game raid schedules. If you don't fit the schedules of your guild, you either find a new guild with different raid times, or you end up having to say "you know what, I can't raid" and you end up accepting the fact and doing what you can do in game still, or you find a new game that is better suited to you. Or, you could always quit whatever is causing you to not be able to raid in the first place, but ... that one gets really tricky.

But with all the time needed to do all that stuff in game:

Couldn't you just work an actual job, earn money, and then just buy the gems that way?

[Synovia]

I've yet to hit 60 myself. 51 is the most I've got. Even with 80+ lvl 100+ friends. Even this week all I use is friends with the new forge. I have gotten a full deck of legendary+. My energy almost never stays at 10( except at night for 2 hours). Am I missing something on how to do it for free? I thought it was mainly for gem spenders or multiple epics.

You need to use less knights. You're probably using 3 in cases where you would only need 2 if you calculated things out. I'm at 57 at this point with 8 friends left for tommorrow...so maybe.

You really need all 3 of your knights to have elemental advantage, and to be atleast boss+ armors.


To get to 60, you really need to get to 50 or so with atleast 60 hours left. The limit isn't EP at that point, its friends.

[Eunuchorn]

The nurses at work play it constantly to the point I hear the songs when I try to sleep at night.

No, no I beg you, NOOOOO!

I recently made a Facebook post referencing Candy Krap. It wasn't nice.

[knights]

I bet only slacking nurses on duty play candy crush. Hence one can conclude candy crush might be responsible for a lotof hospital deaths if the nurses had just made sure some of them sick folks pee'd on time.

[busteroaf]

But with all the time needed to do all that stuff in game:

Couldn't you just work an actual job, earn money, and then just buy the gems that way?

Technically you could, but if you have crap armors, don't level them properly, and don't use your energy/friends wisely, you are wasting your gems.

I haven't found the instant "win" button from buying gems. Its has made doing things easier due to luck, or being able to use that extra special attack, but it by no means guarantees a win in anything that is done in game.

[Starwulf]

I have to ask, what is the level req to actually hit say...level 43 on the epic boss? I'm 5 kills away, and I'm not going to reach that. I might kill the boss 2 more times, 3 if I'm very lucky/diligent. Now, that actually only puts me a handful of fusion materials away, and I could theoretically do some free gem offers and kill the boss in the summoning stone for the final ones for the +(not sure if it's worth it, but it might be). I started this boss about level 85(I've been steadily gaining 2 1/2 levels per day) and am 97, 1/3rd of the way to 98 now, and I have a TON of 95-150 friends, and many of them had excellent armor for this(several had the Forgestone armor, others had that Mono-Fire element one), and I've tried to make sure I constantly use my EE every time I have enough to successfully kill the boss.

So, what's the strat to get the + version of Epic Boss armors? if I could get one or two of them, I think I'd increase my strength dramatically and probably have no trouble from there-on out to get + versions of them.

[Unresolved]

Level isn't too important. Your own armors and your friends are much bigger factors. The Big 4 and 10 solid friends will get you to boss level 43(maybe not this week since attack is 20% higher). If you don't have 10 good friends, then you'll need a legendary or two to make up the difference. The first epic boss+ is the hardest one.

[deathexe]

I have to ask, what is the level req to actually hit say...level 43 on the epic boss? I'm 5 kills away, and I'm not going to reach that. I might kill the boss 2 more times, 3 if I'm very lucky/diligent. Now, that actually only puts me a handful of fusion materials away, and I could theoretically do some free gem offers and kill the boss in the summoning stone for the final ones for the +(not sure if it's worth it, but it might be). I started this boss about level 85(I've been steadily gaining 2 1/2 levels per day) and am 97, 1/3rd of the way to 98 now, and I have a TON of 95-150 friends, and many of them had excellent armor for this(several had the Forgestone armor, others had that Mono-Fire element one), and I've tried to make sure I constantly use my EE every time I have enough to successfully kill the boss.

So, what's the strat to get the + version of Epic Boss armors? if I could get one or two of them, I think I'd increase my strength dramatically and probably have no trouble from there-on out to get + versions of them.

Read the guides that are stickied. Like Radlonghammer's guide to epic bossing.

[Starwulf]

Yeah I've read his guide on here, and someone elses very similar guide on another site. I'm honestly still having trouble making it to 43 kills. Hell, even before I read those guides I had already figured out how to stagger my knights to maximum effect(putting a knight before and in-between any nemesis wearers, using 5 knights, then 1+1, or 4 knights and then three).

I'm starting to think that the 9-10 hour gap in-between when I go to sleep and when I get up(complicated situation, pain meds are involved), is what's killing me, that's a very long time to go without using any of my EE.

Also, @Unresolved, as I mentioned, I have 30+ level 100+ friends, hell this time around at least 5-6 of them had the nemesis armor(though only 3 of them bothered to level it at all, and it just doesn't seem like an unleveled nemesis is worth using, they die in 2-3 hits at current tier, compared to like 8 hits against the Mono-fire epic armor guys I have on my list who hit nearly as hard).

[deathexe]

Yeah I've read his guide on here, and someone elses very similar guide on another site. I'm honestly still having trouble making it to 43 kills. Hell, even before I read those guides I had already figured out how to stagger my knights to maximum effect(putting a knight before and in-between any nemesis wearers, using 5 knights, then 1+1, or 4 knights and then three).

I'm starting to think that the 9-10 hour gap in-between when I go to sleep and when I get up(complicated situation, pain meds are involved), is what's killing me, that's a very long time to go without using any of my EE.

It's probably also because of your lack of good armors too. Even with 9-10 hours of sleep everyday 43 shouldn't be a problem if you had decent armors.

[Starwulf]

Armors aren't that bad I thought. Storm sorc + at level 49, Infernal Lord + at level 39, and Sky guardian at level 37, as well as Ice Lich at 30. I mean, against current boss none of them are too terribly useful, but even against the Ember Lizard I couldn't reach 43 kills, and I even drew the Nemesis armor 2 1/2 days before the event ended.

[deathexe]

Armors aren't that bad I thought. Storm sorc + at level 49, Infernal Lord + at level 39, and Sky guardian at level 37, as well as Ice Lich at 30. I mean, against current boss none of them are too terribly useful, but even against the Ember Lizard I couldn't reach 43 kills, and I even drew the Nemesis armor 2 1/2 days before the event ended.

Those armors are actually pretty bad. The fact that they're only halfway leveled means their stats are horrible, and only infernal lord+ would be somewhat useful against the boss. Even when maxed, a normal sky guardian has pretty low stats too.

[Gabzor89]

Armors aren't that bad I thought. Storm sorc + at level 49, Infernal Lord + at level 39, and Sky guardian at level 37, as well as Ice Lich at 30. I mean, against current boss none of them are too terribly useful, but even against the Ember Lizard I couldn't reach 43 kills, and I even drew the Nemesis armor 2 1/2 days before the event ended.

Hmm to be honest, those armors aren't good enough. When we said that big 4+ was enough, we meant maxed ones, and those maxed lvl 50 armors would probably already have better stats than the above armors you mentioned. Nemesis in my opinion is pretty useless except for clearing lower levels of the boss for weak players. What you need to probably do is to focus on maxing one or two armors. 1 maxed armor will probably do you more good in arena and boss than 3 half-maxed ones

[Starwulf]

Hmm. Storm sorc + has higher stats then both Infernal Lord + and any one of the Big 4 + versions, at least according to the spreadsheet I use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AiQKRFnZ9_jpdEFtUUVnd2dQM1ZIX2IxT1RNZVlval E&type=view&gid=7&f=true&colid0=6&filterstr0=Rare%2FGold%20Star&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

as a matter of fact, my storm sorc +, at it's current level is nearly as high as the maxed version of any of them.

Still, I do agree I need to finish leveling them, I just wanted to hit level 100 before I started grinding out the snakeskins. Thankfully I was wrong, I'm over halfway to 99, so I'll have 100 shortly after I get up tomorrow, which means I"ll be able to start non-stop grinding very soon to max out my storm sorc +(2200+ combined stats btw).

[Gabzor89]

Hmm. Storm sorc + has higher stats then both Infernal Lord + and any one of the Big 4 + versions, at least according to the spreadsheet I use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AiQKRFnZ9_jpdEFtUUVnd2dQM1ZIX2IxT1RNZVlval E&type=view&gid=7&f=true&colid0=6&filterstr0=Rare%2FGold%20Star&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

as a matter of fact, my storm sorc +, at it's current level is nearly as high as the maxed version of any of them.

Still, I do agree I need to finish leveling them, I just wanted to hit level 100 before I started grinding out the snakeskins. Thankfully I was wrong, I'm over halfway to 99, so I'll have 100 shortly after I get up tomorrow, which means I"ll be able to start non-stop grinding very soon to max out my storm sorc +(2200+ combined stats btw).

Yep, I know that the maxed stats of your armors are higher, I just meant that at their current state they were probably lower (just making an offhand estimation without checking the data sheet). Good luck maxing your armors! If you have those air fusion boosts, it would be very useful for your storm sorcerer :)

[Starwulf]

:) I do appreciate all the advice. I'm just honestly trying to make my guys stronger, so that if/when I do join a decent guild, I'm a bigger help then hindrance. I'm very much looking forward to hitting 100 and grinding out those snakeskins. I estimated that with a single run of my guys at full health, I'll be able to grind out 80 snakeskin strips. So 10 armors every 2 1/2 hours or so(well, enough material for 10 armors). I may, once I have enough gold saved up, tear down a training ground or two, and put in more armorsmiths just so I can produce the snakeskin armors at a faster pace. would like to have both infernal lord and storm sorc fully maxed out within 3 or so days. Not sure if that's feasible, but producing 4 suits of armor every 1 hour 54 minutes should do it.

Now if i'd just have some luck fusing my spare infernal lord and rocfeather robes into some 4 star armors, I'd really be set. My first two attempts gave me nothing more then a 2 star armor ><

[gardibolt]

You should not be fusing. You should be spending your hold on maxing good armors eg infernal lord. Save your fusion stars because they are not that easy to come by and you will need them to level 70 armors.

[EljayK]

So I guess this thread applies to me as a free player who doesn't do too terribly. So I guess my two cents would be a summarization: Take advantage of everything, and think a week ahead.

I have 2 epics. I, one time, bought 20 gems, to help my guild in a guild war. Other than that, I have never bought gems. I hit 51 each week for the epic boss, and I'm done crafting the + version of that week's boss before the new one comes out. I have a schedule, and I get very anxious when it is imposed upon. That schedule has seen me through the game with a level of efficiency that I considered un-paralleled. (considering efficiency is kinda what I do all day.) With the right motivation and patience, you can run the numbers on everything, and be leagues ahead of a gem spender. You just have to stop before you make an action and consider what you stand to gain/lose. For instance, my first epic was fused from featherblade and trollking regulars. I risked the ability to get 1 key using the non-plus versions as soon as I had proof of a guaranteed epic. I ended up getting that key anyway. When I saw, "Free keys," for all the beast chest events, I jumped on it and made sure I got it.

There is a wealth of opportunity to get ahead that even most gem spenders do not take. If you take advantage of them, you will be further ahead with or without gems. Just use the resources available. There are so many player made resources that will give you all the information you need to level armor efficiently, kill the boss up to 51 correctly, and get the most out of your friends and guild.

The first thing I realized about my situation was that I would never get a black medal. I became ok with that, and arena became fun trying for bronze. The second thing I realized, was that my gear was better than a lot of the gem spenders I knew. Because I leveled it right. The realization is that even gem spenders have to level their armors. They have to pay just as much attention to the game as anyone else to collect that gold.

[NickkyDC]

For those saying its impossible to get to 60, its not, it requires A lot of attention paid to time but its possible, Second if you cant make 60, work in the arena, it offers free gems as well, not a whole lot but again, saving is key here, over time you can save enough gems from arenas to open chest, and with time, youll get better armors, and more gems and things will speed up.

The main point here is, If your a free to play player, dont expect being a top player to happen over night, I continually invest time into my character, and only wish I could have started earlier, with more time, you will obtain more of what you need. Dedicate the time, and dedicate the patience and you can obtain everything a pay to play player would have. Aside from fancy capes. Use free gems for lv 3 upgrades, or more chests, but eventually you have to understand the meta game changes constantly, right now beast master epic is the best armor in game, in 6 months, though? itll probably be some 6 star armor, and epics will be things of the past.

[The Pale Rider]

For those saying its impossible to get to 60, its not, it requires A lot of attention paid to time but its possible, Second if you cant make 60, work in the arena, it offers free gems as well, not a whole lot but again, saving is key here, over time you can save enough gems from arenas to open chest, and with time, youll get better armors, and more gems and things will speed up.

Having just reached 60 for the first time (YAY!) after a month of trying and ending up in the low 50s. I think it is not possible without gems. To have a shot with the timing, I needed to spend 14 gems on the first day. That made the timing possible but really really hard without gems (i.e. waking up for one last attack in the middle of the night). I chose to spend a more gems and sleep. I needed a few more gems on the last day because I only had 12 hours left for my last 5 kills.

I was not strong enough even with pretty ridiculous friends (thank you RR guys) to kill the last 1 without using 12 more gems.

All in I spent 71 gems to get to 60. I think with better armor and timing I could've cut it to 32 gems. But I don't think one can do it with no gems at all - even with all maxed armor.

Of course Euch will now say I'm wrong and he's done it :)

[-Solo-]

It's possible without gems. This boss was easy with forge+ friends. It's going to be the same when we get a fire/water boss and mael friends. I did it with a throwaway Combustion as my first knight and never moved my knights around. Just depends if you can make the time to fight him. Had 1 1/2 days to spare and 16 friends.

[Gabzor89]

I guess it depends how well equipped you are against whatever boss is ongoing. I would expect those guys with Forgestone to find this boss ridiculously easy.

Nevertheless, as a totally free player, I still think it MIGHT be possible to get to 60 without gems. That said, I haven't been there since the pyromancer-generation bosses, but I reached close enough on this one to think it could be done.

I didn't even have close to the best armors that can be used against the boss (lineup was Starsong+, Pyromancer+, Dark Prince+, no Aegis of Fallen, no Blazeborne, no Forgestone, no Moontide). However, I still managed to reach level 58 thanks to the help of my friends, even though it took some planning who to use when, as not all of them have Forgestone lol.

That said, this boss has 20% higher attack, and though it's elements allow you to deal 200% dmg without taking more, still good job to all of you who reached 60, and good luck for the next!

[The Pale Rider]

It's possible without gems. This boss was easy with forge+ friends. It's going to be the same when we get a fire/water boss and mael friends.

I'm not convinced. I agree this boss was perfect for Forge (I have 8 friends with Forge - 4 plus, 4 reg). But it's a matter of how much energy you get and how far you have to advance before needing friends. Without at least the small gem spend on day 1, you run out of time. I could see making 60 with a small gem spend to extend the first rush - I only missed that by about 8 hours and my armor is relatively weak. But if you skip the initial energy buy, I think you'd have to get lucky with free drops.

[-Solo-]

There are a couple others in my guild who has reached, or is reaching, 60 without using gems. Some for the first time. Me personally, at the point when I needed to use 4 knights, 2 forge+ alone could take the boss down and you can go all the way into the 50s with 1 squire/3 forge+ (2 friends). I got lucky with EE drops but my guild mates didn't so I'm sure if one of the less fortunate armored members in my guild can, many others can. This is only my second time reaching 60 since I don't spend on EB and the first time I did, it was only to finish 60 off. I don't have many different armor combos so certain bosses elements are harder for me.

It's more important to determine when your bottleneck is EE or friends.

[Cidd]

I would have to agree with the original poster. Although his tone is a little harsh, this is a great game. The people that pay to win have a huge advantage, but without them, Gree wouldn't make such a good game with so many updates. Gree is in the business of making money guys.

Gree also gave us all ways to get beast keys without spending money, because we complained about taking away fusing for epics!! Personally, I have never spent money on chests or gear and am doing pretty well with two epic boss + armors and an epic armor I got from beast chests. I got jealous too of all the pay to win players when I was leveling, but once I got to lvl 100 and started taking down the eb 43 times a week, I started enjoying the game even more.

Anyway, enjoy the ride to lvl your gear and keep getting better. This is an awesome game, and personally, I am thankful for all the people that pay to play, giving me an even better game. Thank you to everyone that plays, and to Gree for making the first amazing phone mmo.

Is this the WoW of phone games?! /discuss

-The Cidd
android player, lvl 123, member of Knights of Renais (Cidd on LINE app)

[Synovia]

I'm not convinced. I agree this boss was perfect for Forge (I have 8 friends with Forge - 4 plus, 4 reg). But it's a matter of how much energy you get and how far you have to advance before needing friends. Without at least the small gem spend on day 1, you run out of time.

I'm through 59 right now, There's 4+ hours left, I've got 5 energy, and 2 friends left. I'm using 2xLiving Flame +, and Forge. I haven't had any energy drop since about level 20. I haven't used any gems. I've had atleast one boss where I mistimed things and wasted 5 or 6 BE. I probably used more knights than I needed a couple of times. It's certainly possible to get to 60 without gems. I'll probably end up having to spend 10 gems to kill the 60 boss (revive members)


I think you're underestimating how powerful Forge was against this boss. I ran up to level 20 without going to 2 knights. With Forge+, you could probably go to 23 or 24. There's a guy in my guild who hit 60 2 days ago (he has Forge, Blaze, Blaze).

Also, my limit the last couple of days hasn't been energy, its been friends. The 10 a day cap is a lot rougher than the 48 energy a day limit. If I'd timed things better early on, I could have probably done it a bit earlier.

[busteroaf]

I think you're underestimating how powerful Forge was against this boss. I ran up to level 20 without going to 2 knights. With Forge+, you could probably go to 23 or 24. There's a guy in my guild who hit 60 2 days ago (he has Forge, Blaze, Blaze).

Are you getting guild bonuses though? Those skew the "I got to #X" results, just as much as a +version of an armor.

[Sparkle_DPA]

I agree with every single person in this thread. They need to make the game more expensive. Get to it gree, otherwise we will quit.

[Marco_]

Oh, nice joke there NickkyDC... Wait, you weren't joking.

Basics for being just slightly competitive is a maxed out castle: something like 12 TF3s and 3 smith3 (or smith2 if you have to) which means at least 420 gems.
If you're not even close to maxing out your castle, you're short on cash to level your armors and to contribute meaningful to a guild, so that also means you'll struggle to get into/stay in a guild with decent bonusses and to get/stay on the friendlist of player with good armors -> more difficulties for epic boss/arena.

Let's be generous and say the storyline quests give you 2 TF3s worth of gems [1] and for "anyone can do it" perposes assume free gems to be "Europe on Android" AKA, average something like 3 gems/week.
Struggling through arena, epic boss arena quests and now a then getting a free gem, you'll probably scrounge together half a TF3 per week, in other words taking about 20 weeks to max your castle if you don't buy gems.
(I myself did buy 25-30 euros worth of gems to do most of that upgrade work.)
20 weeks without gems to spend on epic boss or guild war.... I've seen a few people burn out on the game in less playtime than that...

Boss level 60 requires all the stars to align for non-spenders: a good 200% damage armor and lots of friends with 200% damage Epics, luck with EE drops. For this boss Forgestone was the armor. If I wouldn't have gotten my Forgestone+ as Majestic's low-spending theorycrafter etc. and didn't have 10+ Forgestone+ friends or didn't have something like 7-8 EE drops, I wouldn't have gotten to level 60.
Will I get level 60 against anything but earth/spirit? Don't think so. I'll probably get stuck somewhere between 43 and 51 on certain boss element combos and get to 51 on others even with all the "Epic" help.

Calculating keys back into dollars is too silly for words... (calling KnD a RPG is also kind of silly with only health, attack, defense and "RNG miss/crit" as stats and super simplistic "on rails" locations)

For most non-spenders, boss level 43 will likely be often a struggle and other than special events such as the Beast Chest or lucking into a good guild, boss+ armors and maybe a lucky fuse are how far they'll reach.

Your post is like that "American Dream" story of "anyone can go from nothing to being a millionaire", implying that lots will succeed at that, yet only a tiny percentage do succeed at that no matter how hard they try. The same for non-spenders in KnD and getting near the "big boys".




[1] on my level 50 alt I had a little over 1 TF3 worth of gems before update 1.5.1 made it non-functioning...

[Marco_]

I may, once I have enough gold saved up, tear down a training ground or two, and put in more armorsmiths just so I can produce the snakeskin armors at a faster pace. would like to have both infernal lord and storm sorc fully maxed out within 3 or so days. Not sure if that's feasible, but producing 4 suits of armor every 1 hour 54 minutes should do it.
- 4th armorsmith costs 40 gems IIRC, so few people have more than 3
- guilds have enough "contribute gold" quests on the road to level 75 to make "enough gold saved up" never a reality... ;)


Level isn't too important. Your own armors and your friends are much bigger factors. The Big 4 and 10 solid friends will get you to boss level 43(maybe not this week since attack is 20% higher). If you don't have 10 good friends, then you'll need a legendary or two to make up the difference. The first epic boss+ is the hardest one.
Has anybody figured out by now at what combined stats from player levels and armor the friend damage cap is gone? If maxed big 4 still causes a cap at a certain level, then leveling beyond that will have a sizable impact on epic boss fights.

[The Pale Rider]

OK OK 60 is doable without gems if you have the right armor and friends. Sheesh. I've made 43 without difficulty for the last 6 or 7 bosses, but I remember when it was hard (heck I remember using 12 gems to get 15 the first time (Deep Dragon Mail). I am not a big spender at all (a few bucks here or there). I've subscribed and cancelled a few free credit check services though :)

[EljayK]

OK OK 60 is doable without gems if you have the right armor and friends. Sheesh. I've made 43 without difficulty for the last 6 or 7 bosses, but I remember when it was hard (heck I remember using 12 gems to get 15 the first time (Deep Dragon Mail). I am not a big spender at all (a few bucks here or there). I've subscribed and cancelled a few free credit check services though :)

Level 43 is like a wall. You get to 35, and you get oh so close, and then one week there's a lucky combination that gets you there. You cheer and huzzah and all that, and then suddenly...2 weeks later...you're hitting 43 every week and wondering how you didn't get to it before.

[New Jersey Jones]

Armors aren't that bad I thought. Storm sorc + at level 49, Infernal Lord + at level 39, and Sky guardian at level 37, as well as Ice Lich at 30. I mean, against current boss none of them are too terribly useful, but even against the Ember Lizard I couldn't reach 43 kills, and I even drew the Nemesis armor 2 1/2 days before the event ended.

Starwulf: Sorry for the late reply; I haven't been on the forum in a while.

One really important thing I noticed about your post was that for each of the armors you mentioned, Bear has an attack/damage bonus against it. Infernal Lord (f/e): Bear's spirit will get a damage bonus against your earth; Sky Guardian (a/s): Bear's earth has a bonus against your air; Storm (a/w): Bear's earth has a bonus against your air, but this armor has no bonus against anything Bear has (no fire or spirit).

To beat the boss efficiently, you need to use armors that have a damage bonus against the boss, but not ones where the Boss has a damage bonus against you. That's what makes Forge, Fallen and Living Flame so potent against Bear: all of those armors have a DOUBLE damage bonus against Bear, but Bear has NO damage bonus against them.
-Jones

[Sabre]

Starwulf: Sorry for the late reply; I haven't been on the forum in a while.

One really important thing I noticed about your post was that for each of the armors you mentioned, Bear has an attack/damage bonus against it. Infernal Lord (f/e): Bear's spirit will get a damage bonus against your earth; Sky Guardian (a/s): Bear's earth has a bonus against your air; Storm (a/w): Bear's earth has a bonus against your air, but this armor has no bonus against anything Bear has (no fire or spirit).

To beat the boss efficiently, you need to use armors that have a damage bonus against the boss, but not ones where the Boss has a damage bonus against you. That's what makes Forge, Fallen and Living Flame so potent against Bear: all of those armors have a DOUBLE damage bonus against Bear, but Bear has NO damage bonus against them.
-Jones

Yep, yep, totally agree, just reached 43 for first time on bear and used Blackfrost, Flamehunters and living flame. When doing it always use armours with 100,50% damage bonus! and preferably have none against you (though if you have 100% damage bonus and take 50% it's still a bonus of 50%

[Marco_]

Yep, yep, totally agree, just reached 43 for first time on bear and used Blackfrost, Flamehunters and living flame. When doing it always use armours with 100,50% damage bonus! and preferably have none against you (though if you have 100% damage bonus and take 50% it's still a bonus of 50%
Don't think like that. 50% bonus damage against you is about 1/3rd fewer special attacks you can do against the boss, which means a neutral armor of similar stats should outdamage a weak/strong (50%/50%) armor and similarly for 100%/50% vs 50%/0%. (though once the boss can 2-shot both, the weak/strong one is obviously better)

[Aerin Kylantra]

I personally don't see the point in complaining. If I get to the point that I have to complain about being at a "disadvantage" because I choose to play for free instead of paying a little bit of money, then I believe that is the time to leave the game.

I CHOOSE to pay no money, so I have no room to complain. I enjoy popping in regularly trying to grind for leveling the boss armours I FINALLY started to get after level 93. I now have gotten two boss + armours, and if they ever make the Ice Lich cheap at the summon stone again, I will have three. I intend to get number four with this boss. Point is, I PLANNED on it being harder, with the intent on getting to boss + so that I could level them all up, trash the rest, and be at the point I can get to boss kills of 60+ sometime around level 160 or so (now at 117).

I agree with the OP sentiment that...if you choose to play for free, it's harder, but it CAN be done if you are willing to suck it up, and understand it just takes a lot longer to manage than if you choose to pay money.

And again...when I find myself complaining, I will find myself either choosing to pay, or choosing to stop playing. But it's MY choice, not yours, and I intend on making it on my own terms.

Just my 2 cents (1.54 cents after taxes).

[The Pale Rider]

I personally don't see the point in complaining. If I get to the point that I have to complain about being at a "disadvantage" because I choose to play for free instead of paying a little bit of money, then I believe that is the time to leave the game.

I CHOOSE to pay no money, so I have no room to complain. I enjoy popping in regularly trying to grind for leveling the boss armours I FINALLY started to get after level 93. I now have gotten two boss + armours, and if they ever make the Ice Lich cheap at the summon stone again, I will have three. I intend to get number four with this boss. Point is, I PLANNED on it being harder, with the intent on getting to boss + so that I could level them all up, trash the rest, and be at the point I can get to boss kills of 60+ sometime around level 160 or so (now at 117).

I agree with the OP sentiment that...if you choose to play for free, it's harder, but it CAN be done if you are willing to suck it up, and understand it just takes a lot longer to manage than if you choose to pay money.

And again...when I find myself complaining, I will find myself either choosing to pay, or choosing to stop playing. But it's MY choice, not yours, and I intend on making it on my own terms.

Just my 2 cents (1.54 cents after taxes).

Can you see how it's circular reasoning to complain about others complaining?

[Synovia]

Don't think like that. 50% bonus damage against you is about 1/3rd fewer special attacks you can do against the boss, which means a neutral armor of similar stats should outdamage a weak/strong (50%/50%) armor and similarly for 100%/50% vs 50%/0%. (though once the boss can 2-shot both, the weak/strong one is obviously better)

Less special attacks for you also means less special attacks for the boss.


Remember, the actual amount of damage the boss does to your knight is irrelevant. The amount of hits your knight can take from a boss is what matters (IE, for your main knight with 607 hp, 150 damage and 125 damage are exactly the same thing.. you die on the 5th attack).


It depends on what level you're at... at some levels a 100/50 is better than a 50/0, and vice versa.

[EljayK]

Also mention that it's equally important to line up characters correctly with boss special attacks. Do what you can from experience to remember when the special attack will fall, and attempt to align knights so that the boss's special attack hits a knight with very little hp left, instead of hitting one at full. I personally use Squire/Main/Squire/Friend with high attack/Friend with high defense. (assuming def and att are different, like last week with pyromancer mantle and Aegis of the fallen.)

[Synovia]

Also remember that the first knight is the only one that gets hit before getting to attack, so he in affect gets one less attack, so its often worth having him be your weakest one.